Hi gang
Some thoughts on NSAIDs and hearts

1. All NSAIds potentially affect the pumping action of the heart and can
worsen cardiac failure = generally bad for loopies, although some seem to
tolerate them fine (obvioously those without much heart damage!)

2. Vioxx/Celebrex/Mobic are a diffrent class (Cox-2 antagonists) and Vioxx
had the added kicker that it increased risk of ischaemic heart disease and
heart attack ++ as well as the standard heart failure risk.  So it was
withdrawn.  Now Celebrex in doses of 200mg per day or less is OK, providing
the person does not have existing coronary heart disease (I understand in
USA they often use doses up to 400mg a day- which makes it just as bad as
Vioxx).  There is no clear evidence that Mobic is a problem..but I would say
...tread carefully.

3. Summary?
Don't take NSAIDs/COX-2's if you have known cardiac failure or coronary
heart disease.
Use with care if you have hypertension or arryhtmia
Don't take Vioxx under any circumstances
If you're unsure check with your doc..

Does that help at all?

Lyndal
didn't see it here Janers.... i sent you back on personal email... saying:
Hi janers.... Just got in from my 'hair day out'...
I got nausea bad from plaquenil and because the chloroquin screwed my eyes
so badly, with the loss of central vision; i was recommended to try the
plaquenil subQ instead.... avoiding nausea they think; i may try that this
time if given the all clear after next field vision test.... re you and the
plaq. it is a different 'make up' of a drug definitely...
one: chloroquin is  chloroquin phosphate and
two: plaquenil is hydroxychloroquin sulphate
.... so I'm thinking that  maybe the sulphates in the plaq. got to both of
us in different ways? you with the rash etc. and me the nausea?
IMO? yes, worth trying the other for sure for you! and i too may try the sub
cutaneous prior to going back onto the chloroquin, which I know is a good
drug for my joints and skin and all! How I miss it now! you don't really
know just how much good you are getting from it till you are forced off it
cold turkey!  wow, my joints are so bad and I had forgotten just how bad bad
is with them lol!!
whine whine... any cheese left for me?
hugs to you
and good luck too janers!

didn't see it here Janers.... i sent you back on personal email... saying:
Hi janers.... Just got in from my 'hair day out'...
I got nausea bad from plaquenil and because the chloroquin screwed my eyes so badly, with the loss of central vision; i was recommended to try the plaquenil subQ instead.... avoiding nausea they think; i may try that this time if given the all clear after next field vision test.... re you and the plaq. it is a different 'make up' of a drug definitely...
one: chloroquin is  chloroquin phosphate and
two: plaquenil is hydroxychloroquin sulphate
.... so I'm thinking that  maybe the sulphates in the plaq. got to both of us in different ways? you with the rash etc. and me the nausea?
IMO? yes, worth trying the other for sure for you! and i too may try the sub  cutaneous prior to going back onto the chloroquin, which I know is a good drug for my joints and skin and all! How I miss it now! you don't really know just how much good you are getting from it till you are forced off it cold turkey!  wow, my joints are so bad and I had forgotten just how bad bad is with them lol!!
whine whine... any cheese left for me?
hugs to you

while you are there Shelagh, did you try the plaquenil?   I did and had a
severe rash and hives.
DO you think that I could maybe give it a try to ue the choloquin.  Maybe
they are made up differet, ya think?
RHeumy has mentioned to try it, so I am still wondering about that and
believe me that rash and blisters was NO darn fun ..

hugs janers

Ditto on all that said by janers and her docs.
my cardio also said NO nsaids at all! especially after my incident of chf .... and no, i wasn't on any then thank god!
they are trouble for heart problems of many types and also add to fluid retention just on the side... one more thing to worry about with cardio or renal issues!
I too was told that pred and like steroids <medrol>  are better and to stay with it and to increase it when needed without worrying about it's side effects; they are 'safer' than the nsaids for my health care according to my docs
<my disclosure here is that this is what was recommended for me as a lupus patient, but also is generalized for lupus patients as a group and yes, generalizing nsaids in one group as well>  
is what the cardio said!
Also I was told that provided I get the go ahead again on chloroquin which is like the plaquenil, both are antimalarials and used for joints and skin issues and the fatigue also with lupus patient care,  that they are safer than the NSAIDs as a group as well speaking on a cardio/renal level
.... so there you go...coming from two countries and in different areas geographically speaking and saying the same things....
It is not often you get doctors that much in accordance?!
Wishing you good luck, and try to avoid the nsaids if you can at all!
hugs,
Shelagh
http://clik.to/lupus

Hi Maggie, I was told by my cardiologist that ALL NSAIDS will have a warning
about Problems with heart conditions.
I talked to her about use of NSAIDs since I have irregular heart rhythm and
highpertension and she told me it is BEST NOT to take them with my health
condition and lupus.

I was trying different brands due to my pain level and inflammation and well
she told me right out, if she had to choose the use of ONE drug for me to
take it would be to continue use of MEDROL instead of any NSAID. WHAT??? I
said?   Medrol is terrible side effects let alone give a moon butt and moon
gut!!!  she laughed and said "well you wanted a choice and that is all the
choices I had.

But it  is true.   I had read the alleve was the least likely to cause heart
problems but then IT is still listed as a NSAID and will still cause the
problems.
HOW in "H" are we to decide but to trust our doctors in helping us do this.

I am not on NSAID and gather I never will be again.  Celebrex and Vioxx were
wonder drugs for me and Off went the vioxx and celebrex, neither rheumy or
cardiologist will let me take it again...
So pop the medrol on low and high doses and hope there is a bathing suit
that will fit  this  year and next and next...
Water classes in the future won't need a life jacket, I will have one built
right IN>

have a smiley day.

janers

I take Daypro as my daily NSAID.  I know some may not know of it well
as it's an older drug, but one that works for me.  Does anyone have any
experience with it though?

Vioxx and Celebrex were pulled because of heart problems as I recall.
I tried Vioxx for a few days, and it worked at first, but then I got
worse.  I tend to have problems with Ibuprohen-like drugs.  Well, today
I just happened to glance at my drug info on the Daypro and noticed
that there's a warning about heart conditions on it.  There was never
this warning before, so I wonder if it's now in the same category as
Vioxx and Celebrex.  Furthermore, I wonder what everyone here takes for
their NSAID as I may be looking to switch after reading that.

Maggie