Who knows, his posts get stranger and angrier all the time.  I suppose you
should clean out the socket with a high speed and see how fast you can blow
a bunch of nasties into the fascial planes.  Time to start blocking again I
guess.

carabelli

Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3?

T

That may be, but why does the patient have to end up with either
a ($$$$) root canal, or a ($$$$) implant (which also can become
infected with complicaions). How about just extracting
the tooth and cleaning out the bone, option #3. It's amazing
the even most OS's don't seem to be able to even do #3 or diagnose
any condition that won't lead to a root canal or implant.

Dentistry is a business, like any other, not to mention the legal
liability, for supposedly "safe" and widely practiced dental methods.
And by the way, this issue is very controversial with state board
harassment of dentists who do not follow the "party line". Some of this
issues are even being fought out in court
right now. YOur characterization of one camp of learned professionals
vs a group of crazy patients is disingenous to the
extreme. I'm not here to characterize the safety of root canal
procedures, but please give the FTBW (follow the band wagon) argument a
rest.

The point here is that there is an infection that isn't being treated.
(Seems to be another problem commonly associated
with dentistry). By the way any ENT who says an infection that
doesn't show up on a CAT scan can't be there is a moron.

But why so defenisve all of a sudden about root canals. Shhhh,
don't wake anybody up or threaten dentistries ($$$$) cash cow.

Some say, bury things that are dead. Yu Don't prop up dead relatives
but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth,
you bury them too.

For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been
taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists.
It may not be brain surgery, but it is not to be taken lightly.

If it is done right, there are rarely any significant complications
and the teeth are saved for many years and often a lifetime.

If it is done poorly, there usually are complications and the patient
would often be better served with an implant.

Listening to some advice on the internet (or even in your normal life)
can be filled with lies and misinformation.  It may be offered with the
best intentions yet be filled with ignorance.  It also may be offered
to scam you into something that you will live to regret.

The dentists here have no vested interests in your treatment.  We offer
the most reliable advice that is possible with the information given.

When people start listening to posters with no dental training or
expertise what-so-ever, it is somewhat irritating.

Kind of like having a patient in the chair that says, "Aunt Mable
says I should have all my teeth extracted because 'bad teeth' run
in our family".

Dartos

There is no need to get snippy.  I was simply asking a question.  And the
reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until after I
was root canaled.  It just all seems pretty coincidental to me.  And, I have
been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed
and they got better after the tooth was removed.  That kind of speaks for
itself also, don't you think?

The entire scientific community.  Do you want your dental/medical care to
based on one study done in 1918 that was proven wrong a few years later ?

If you prefer to listen to a retired day care worker rather than learned
professionals, that is your prerogative.  Have a nice day.

Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense.  Who proved it
wrong?

That particular study was proven wrong in 1923.  Forget about it.

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post.  I have an appointment with the
dentist tomorrow morning to have him once again check on the teeth that he
root canaled.  I will have him refer me to an endodontist.  

I have done some research on my own over the weekend and did read about some
of the stuff that LadyLollipop was referring to.  I was reading about Weston
Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by
bacterial poisons left in the tubules leaching out causing sickness and
disease.  From a medical standpoint, this makes extreme sense. The dentist
certainly never discussed any of this with me!  I had no clue things could
get out of hand from a tooth.  I may have opted for just having the thing
pulled, which also was never discussed.  

All I know is that ever since I had the root canals done four months ago I
just haven't felt the same.  I am tired all of the time and have no energy,
along with everything else that I stated in my first post.  Also, over the
weekend the side of my face, from my eye down to my ear, was very sore.  If I
touched beside my ear I could feel pressure that went directly to the tooth.
My eyelid would twitch a lot and the tingling went down to my bottom lip.

I will let you know what the dentist says about my teeth after he examines
them tomorrow.  If he looks at the x-ray and says that everything looks okay
and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!!

The subject is NOT water.

Irrelevant!

Sorry, I missed this. I haven't been reading this group.

http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html

http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root

 ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is
because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in
the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the
body causing potential harm.
An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually
following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems.
Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as
localised problems.

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm

http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm

http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html

http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html

http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm

http://www.cfsn.com/maz/

http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html

http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html

http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html

http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm

http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A
dead
or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

Toxicity from Root Canals

The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source
of
toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal
therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have
abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the
vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to
clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert
material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful;
however,
the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several
million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic
type
fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of
the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It
services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve
and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the
flow
of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This
creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of
plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation
is
from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no
irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many
more
reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal
tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what
happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages
becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now
becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you
want?
Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are
said
to be the cadavers of the body.

I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to
their
decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I
respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.

The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually
sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at
the
root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a
complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject.
Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable
substitution
for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized
dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out
against
root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the
patient
make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Jan

Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning!

Actually everything is toxic ... .depending on the dose!

I wouldn't worrry about gutta percha being toxic... sounds more like
combination of persisitent infection and possiblity of sodium
hypochlorite used to clean the canal going past the apex of root. That
can cause severe rxn but usually will go away by itself... you should
see an endodontist for consultand wait on the crowns for now.

I was a bit taken back when he wanted to proceed with the crowns, too.  That
was the last time that I went to him and I don't think that I will go back to
him.  I think there is something fishy going on over there.  My sister goes
to the same place but has a different dentist.  She just paid $2,500 for a
bridge two weeks ago that they want to drill through now.

I agree you should definitely see an endodontist.  I am very surprised that
your dentist suggested a crown for the tooth while you were still having
pain.  By the way... change dentists.

I would agree: you should see an endodontist, who is a root canal
specialist.  Infections can last longer that we'd like, and it's possible
that is what you have.  It's impossible to really give you any advice
without examining you and knowing your age and health history, but a
specialist should be able to see what's what.  I would tell your dentist you
are doing this and request a copy of all the x-rays he's taken, so that the
endodontist can see how things have progressed and see how that compares
with the current situation.  Be assured that eventually most all infections
do resolve.  Good luck!

About 4 months ago I began the root canal process.  I was put on an
antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning.  Is this
enough time to allow the infection to go away?  I questioned them and they
said the antibiotics would start to work immediately.  Anyway, he placed
temporary fillings in 2 teeth that were right next to each other - upper left
bicuspid and a molar.  I was told that I would have some pain for a couple of
days.  I was told to continue my antibiotic and was also put on Ibuprofen
800mg for pain.  My appointment for the rest of the root canal was scheduled
to be done in two weeks.  The pain did not go away in a couple of days.  I
was scheduled to go to New York the weekend before my next appointment to
finish the root canal.  I called the dentist's office and told them that it
had been a week and a half and I was still experiencing pain, that I was to
go to NYC that weekend, and I did not want to have any problems with my teeth
at that time.  I was then told that sometimes the pain would last as long as
two weeks.  I went on my trip and was miserable!  The pain would really flare
up when I rode the subway ( I am guessing that it was due to all the jostling)
.

I went to have the root canal done on that Wednesday after my trip.  I told
him that I was still having pain.  He shot me up about three times with
novacaine and waited til he thought I was numb.  He began to place the rubber
dam over my teeth.  I stopped him and told him that I could really feel that.
He shot me up a couple of more times.  Shouldn't  the pain associated with
just the placement of the rubber dam have tipped him off that maybe something
wasn't right?  He began drilling and I could feel a little pain, which was
bearable, and a lot of pressure.  I just assumed that this was normal.  Then
he irrigated the tooth.  When he did this, I could feel cold, bleachy tasting
liquid go up into my cheek and swish around all the way up to my eye.  Again,
I thought this was normal or maybe just a sensation from the novacaine.
After the procedure was finished, he refilled my antibiotic and wrote me an
Rx for Vicodan.

My face was a little puffy that night, but just assumed that it was normal
due to the trauma of what had been done.  The next day it was still puffy.
However, on Friday morning it was very swollen.  I didn't call the dentist, I
just stopped in, unannounced, and asked if this was normal.  He took one look
at me and said, "Oh, my!"  He then wrote me another Rx for a different
antibiotic and told me to take it conjunction with the one I was already
taking and told me to stop in on Monday morning.  Saturday morning when I
woke, my face was swollen all the way up to and around my eye.  When I bent
over to pick up some dirty clothes a bunch of rusty colored liquid came
running out of my nose.  I spent the rest of the day with my head hanging
over the edge of the bed trying to drain all that crap out of my face.  I
felt a little better the next day and the swelling had gone down some.  When
I got to his office on Monday, I told he what had happened and told him that
I was concerned about having infection spread to my brain.  He didn't look
all that concerned.  He put me on a Medrol Dose Pack (oral steriod) to take
with my antibiotics.  

I went back to see him every Friday for the next month.  He took an x-ray
each time I said that I was still experiencing pain.  All he ever said was,
"The x-rays look okay."  He would occassionally change my antibiotic.  On one
of my Friday visits he told me that the problem was that the roots of my
molar had grown into my sinuses.  Couldn't he see this on the very first x-
ray he took before any work was performed?  On my last visit to him he told
me that he needed to cap the teeth as I "was compromising the integrity of my
teeth."  I told him that I was reluctant to have any more work done at this
time due to all the pain that I was having.  He told me to make an
appointment to come in in two weeks to have the work finished.  I went to the
receptionist and told her that he wanted me back in two weeks, but to
schedule it for four weeks to allow the pain to go away.  They always want at
least half of the payment up front, which in this case was $840, and I didn't
have it and that I would be able to come up with the money in a month as
opposed to two weeks.

After two weeks after my last visit to the dentist, my pain still had not
subsided and I went to a medical doctor.  I told him that I was experiencing
dizziness, light-headedness, loss of balance, loss of concentration, itchy
rash that would turn into pustuales (pimple like), burning sensation behind
my left eye, tingling in my left cheek that would radiate up and around my
head, pain under my cheek bone, and that I suspected that I may have
something systemic because I did not feel right.  He ordered blood work and a
CAT scan of my sinuses.  Both came back negative and I was told to see a
specialist.

I went a couple of weeks ago to see an ENT.  He basically laughed at me since
nothing showed up on my CAT scan.  He told me the pain was coming from my
tooth.  I asked how that could be when the roots are supposedly dead.  He
said that wasn't a dentist.  He said that the CAT scan did show that I have a
deviated septum and a prominent nasal spur and the spur could cause headaches.
I told him that I guess that I have always had that spur and I had very
rarely experienced headaches.  He told me that I should go back to the
dentist and have him cap my teeth.

I am at a loss as to what to do next.  No one seems concerned about my
symptoms and I am beginning to get more than a little worried.  I believe
that he filled my teeth with gutta-percha, which I have recently discovered
contains approximately 5% mercury.  Could I have mercury poisoning?  I have
also learned that oxygen deprived bacteria continue to live inside that tooth
and can leach out making you sick.  Why doen't dentists recognize this even
with documentation?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.  I don't like the fact that my
dentist wanted to continue the root cnal work even though I insisted that I
was still in pain.