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Medical Forum / General / Vision / May 2009

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Spectacles normal tilt

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Peter C - 10 May 2009 01:20 GMT
Hi,

I don't know if tilt is the right word. But I'll describe it. When you
see a person wearing eyeglasses from the side
view, the glasses as seen from the sides may be slanted.
Is slant normal? My spectacles has the upper part further away from me
than the lower part.. or if seen from sides, the eyebrow part is
further from glasses than lower part from glasses, can you imagine it?
Is it normal? Or is normal the upper and lower part same distance from
the eye socket? Thanks.

Pete
Mike Tyner - 10 May 2009 13:26 GMT
Opticians call it pantoscopic tilt.

A little bit is normal, as most people spend more time looking down than
looking up.

-MT

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Pete
Peter C - 10 May 2009 15:25 GMT
> Opticians call it pantoscopic tilt.
>
> A little bit is normal, as most people spend more time looking down than
> looking up.

But I spent most time with it looking at computer monitor
straight ahead, is it ok to adjust it so it's not slant but
directly vertical??

Thanks.

Pete

> -MT
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mike Tyner - 10 May 2009 15:42 GMT
>But I spent most time with it looking at computer monitor
>straight ahead, is it ok to adjust it so it's not slant but
>directly vertical??

Absolutely not. All those x-rays and ultraviolet emitted by the monitor will
reflect back into the monitor, then back and forth like a laser, amplifying
until it blasts a hole in the wall behind you, taking you with it. Best to
leave the glasses reflecting down toward the nads.

Just joking. Sure, you can adjust them any way you want. Be careful - it's
easy to snap off a temple doing this adjustment.

-MT
Neil Brooks - 10 May 2009 16:41 GMT
> >But I spent most time with it looking at computer monitor
> >straight ahead, is it ok to adjust it so it's not slant but
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> until it blasts a hole in the wall behind you, taking you with it. Best to
> leave the glasses reflecting down toward the nads.

LOL!

Out of curiosity, Mike, is there a strength of prescription beyond
which a wearer altering panto- WILL unwittingly alter their vision,
too??

In other words, as a high plus, if I push my glasses up the bridge of
my nose, or pull them away from my eyes ... the scenery changes ...
dramatically.

Does panto- have real-world effects for Rx's beyond ... a certain
point ... or bifocals ... or ... anything with high cyl ... or ... ?
Mike Tyner - 11 May 2009 01:23 GMT
> Out of curiosity, Mike, is there a strength of prescription beyond
> which a wearer altering panto- WILL unwittingly alter their vision,
> too??

Yes. Their eyes grow egg-shaped, a sloped retina like a horse's.

> In other words, as a high plus, if I push my glasses up the bridge of
> my nose, or pull them away from my eyes ... the scenery changes ...
> dramatically.

I'll try that next time honeydew starts repeating herself.

> Does panto- have real-world effects for Rx's beyond ... a certain
> point ... or bifocals ... or ... anything with high cyl ... or ... ?

Seriously - of course it does. All our assumptions are based on
perpendicular angles of incidence.  All lenses distort, and all distortion
increases with angle, thickness, etc.

Curiously some people get used to a certain amount of distortion, then
complain if you take it away. Letters are "too sharp" or lines are "too
straight."

Panto tilt seriously impacts progressives, especially the width of
progressive channels. More tilt = closer = wider field. At the same time, it
might require more head/neck tilt to get an equivalent add.

-MT
The Real Bev - 11 May 2009 01:44 GMT
> "Neil Brooks" <neil0502@yahoo.com> wrote
>  
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> complain if you take it away. Letters are "too sharp" or lines are "too
> straight."

Somebody, maybe his agent, said Lance Armstrong is so good because he LIKES
pain.  I think there's a correlation here...

Signature

Cheers, Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
All bleeding eventually stops.

Mark A - 11 May 2009 04:16 GMT
> Somebody, maybe his agent, said Lance Armstrong is so good because he
> LIKES pain.  I think there's a correlation here...

Unfortunately, that is not the main reason. The reason he is so good (at
least a big factor) is that his heart is (literally) 1/3 larger than a
normal human heart. He was a tri-athlete before taking up cycling full time.

My heart is normal, so I am justified in sitting on the couch and watching
sports on TV.
The Real Bev - 12 May 2009 05:43 GMT
>> Somebody, maybe his agent, said Lance Armstrong is so good because he
>> LIKES pain.  I think there's a correlation here...
>
> Unfortunately, that is not the main reason. The reason he is so good (at
> least a big factor) is that his heart is (literally) 1/3 larger than a
> normal human heart. He was a tri-athlete before taking up cycling full time.

Yeah, but there are a lot of people with superb physical attributes.  I think
more is needed for world-class performance -- and a love of pain just might do
the trick!

> My heart is normal, so I am justified in sitting on the couch and watching
> sports on TV.

I figure 8 miles of bicycling a day is my couch-potato dues.  Or computer-chair
dues...

Signature

Cheers, Bev
==========================================================
"The last thing you want is for somebody to commit suicide
 before executing them."
        -Gary Deland, former Utah director for corrections

Robert Martellaro - 12 May 2009 19:34 GMT
>Does panto- have real-world effects for Rx's beyond ... a certain
>point ... or bifocals ... or ... anything with high cyl ... or ... ?

Tilting the lens increases the power and induces cylinder equal to the sign of
the sphere with an axis of 180, if the vertical OC is not lowered .5mm below the
pupil per every degree of pantoscopic tilt.

Martin's formula for tilt

S'= S{1+(sin a)^2/(2n)}
C'= S'(tan a)^2

S sph power
S' new power
a tilt
n index of refraction
C' induced cyl

If your Rx is +8.00 DS, Trivex, with a panto of 15 and the OC is level with the
pupil, our eyes will see +8.18 +.59 x 180.

The idea is to keep the optical axis of the lens lined up with the rotational
center of the eye, important for medium to high  power lenses, and for all
aspherics. For the above example, one might reduce the panto to ten degrees, and
make sure that the vertical OC is positioned 5mm below the pupil either by
decentration, or by picking a frame that puts the 180 line 5mm below the pupil.

In addition to the above, the panto angle is desirable due to improved
perspective when looking down at floor, reduces the vertex distance on the down
gaze resulting in increased field of view with progressives, and simply looks
better because it follows the contour and structure of the face.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
Salmon Egg - 12 May 2009 20:17 GMT
> >Does panto- have real-world effects for Rx's beyond ... a certain
> >point ... or bifocals ... or ... anything with high cyl ... or ... ?
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> decentration, or by picking a frame that puts the 180 line 5mm below the
> pupil.

I am not a vision professional.

This points out that the changes to the effective lens are proportional
to the SQUARE of angle between the lens symmetry axis and the viewing
direction. Moreover, the greater the power of the corrective lenses, the
more sensitivity to the effect of panto. This effect will be asymmetric
with respect to looking up to looking down.

Although not explicitly pointed out. the context indicates angles are
measured in degrees and not radians.

Bill

Signature

Most people go to college to get their missing high school education.

Peter C - 10 May 2009 19:18 GMT
> >But I spent most time with it looking at computer monitor
> >straight ahead, is it ok to adjust it so it's not slant but
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> until it blasts a hole in the wall behind you, taking you with it. Best to
> leave the glasses reflecting down toward the nads.

Interesting. Do you know a guy called Scott Summers. He can
emit laser beam from his eyes, i wonder what does it get the
energy from. Also does it work from eyeball or from the optic
nerves inside his eyes. They called it Optic Blast. You may be
one of the eye doctor reserved for him. Scott Summers friends
are the Wolverine, Storm, maybe you got the idea...

Lol..

Pete

> Just joking. Sure, you can adjust them any way you want. Be careful - it's
> easy to snap off a temple doing this adjustment.
>
> -MT
Salmon Egg - 10 May 2009 17:19 GMT
In article
<466b2923-d88e-41f6-becc-f83bed0e8721@k9g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,

> But I spent most time with it looking at computer monitor
> straight ahead, is it ok to adjust it so it's not slant but
> directly vertical??

I am not a vision professional. The optics of the situation is that a
small tilt will not be detrimental. Large tilts will introduce (lens
designer not optometric) astigmatism. That is,aspherical lens will no
longer converge a spherical wave to a single point focus.

Bill

Signature

Most people go to college to get their missing high school education.

mpace99@rogers.com - 10 May 2009 16:53 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Is it normal? Or is normal the upper and lower part same distance from
> the eye socket? Thanks.

It is normal to have a 10 to 15 degree tilt.  This is called
pantoscopic tilt and serves to reduce aberrations in the lenses.

Judy
Salmon Egg - 10 May 2009 17:28 GMT
In article
<7b50657e-45a8-40b8-be48-f8d97a06b8f9@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,

> > Hi,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Judy

I do not understand this at all. I can possibly picture this tilt
optimizing vision by substituting one aberration for another. Certainly
an on-axis aberration, like spherical aberration, will be minimized by
looking down the symmetry axis of the lens. I also can see that tilting
the lens a lot might compensate for some astimatism.

Bill

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Most people go to college to get their missing high school education.

 
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