Medical Forum / General / Vision / May 2008
CANNOT SEE TO READ
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Jerry - 25 May 2008 01:42 GMT I am 65 and my vison in the last two or so years has been getting worse for reading. I have been buying magnafying reading glass.
Now, when I try to read, it is like looking through glasses that are smeered with vasaline. I had my vision checked and got perscription reading glasses. There is absolutely no difference and I still cannot focus to read. My distance vison is failing too.
Reading through various web sites and Usenet Groups, I have concluded that there so may different possible vision problems that I could never determine what my problem is over the Internet.
My problem is complicated by my living in Panama. I went to who I thought was an opthomologist but he was an optometrist. ( There is a language barrier since my Spanish is not perfect.) I told him that I did not think prescription glasses would solve my problem but I went ahead and had them made anyway.
I am going to see an eye surgeon next week who maybe can help me.
MsBrainy - 25 May 2008 03:27 GMT Did they check you for cataract? Your desription sounds like it, but of course it could be something else. Only a physical examination by a professional can determine your condition.
>I am 65 and my vison in the last two or so years has been getting >worse for reading. I have been buying magnafying reading glass. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >I am going to see an eye surgeon next week who maybe can help me.
 Signature MsBrainy
ray - 25 May 2008 03:54 GMT It is a long shot but some of the symptoms you are describing are Fuchs's Corneal Dystrophy. Many doctors don't find it because it is rare, but it is easy to diagnose if they are looking for it. I found that I have it about 2 months ago. It only took 3 different doctors to find it, some have gone to 6 or more before they got a proper diagnosis.
>Did they check you for cataract? Your desription sounds like it, but of >course it could be something else. Only a physical examination by a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >>I am going to see an eye surgeon next week who maybe can help me. Glenn Hagele - USAEyes.org - 25 May 2008 05:11 GMT Sorry to hear you have Fuchs. When the original poster is examined the doctor should be able to see if the problem is a cataract. If it is not, then Fuchs may be a possibility. It is, however, rather rare.
Glenn Hagele Executive Director USAEyes (R) Patient Advocacy Surgeon Certification
"Consider and Choose With Confidence" (TM)
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
Lasik Bulletin Board http://www.USAEyes.org/Ask-Lasik-Expert/
I am not a doctor.
Copyright 2008 All Rights Reserved
jyazelz@peoplepc.com - 26 May 2008 03:28 GMT >It is a long shot but some of the symptoms you are describing are >Fuchs's Corneal Dystrophy. Many doctors don't find it because it is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >diagnosis. > ======================= Does Fuchs's appear to be similar to a mass of blood (or similar material) in that when the eye is not very active it spreads across the vision to simulate a very thin covering and when the eye is active it coalesces into a blob that may cover 50 percent of the field of view (sitting in the center)?
Mike Tyner - 26 May 2008 04:33 GMT > Does Fuchs's appear to be similar to a mass of blood (or similar material) > in that when the eye is not very active it spreads across the vision to > simulate a very thin covering and when the eye is active it coalesces into > a > blob that may cover 50 percent of the field of view (sitting in the > center)? Fuch's makes the back side of the cornea look a little like frosted glass, the texture of an orange peel.
There is no blood, and no "blob" to form any image.
The central cornea is usually worst, and the hazy vision isn't usually concentrated in any particular field or direction.
Fuch's is not rare, and it's difficult to miss if you're paying attention.
-MT, OD
>>It is a long shot but some of the symptoms you are describing are >>Fuchs's Corneal Dystrophy. Many doctors don't find it because it is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > blob that may cover 50 percent of the field of view (sitting in the > center)? p.clarkii@gmail.com - 26 May 2008 06:10 GMT > > Does Fuchs's appear to be similar to a mass of blood (or similar material) > > in that when the eye is not very active it spreads across the vision to [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > blob that may cover 50 percent of the field of view (sitting in the > > center)? thanks, mike, for the clarifications of a number of points that irked me when I read this thread from the start.
Fuch's is quite easy to diagnose in a simple slit-lamp evaluation. And its possible but not likely that the original poster really has this condition anyway so its mention takes the thread off a little off topic. I think the most likely conditions that need to be ruled out are simple refractive changes, cataracts, and potential retinal problems (diabetic retinopathy, macular degeneration, etc.) And such an examination is directly in line with the skills and scope of practice of optometrists, as well as ophthalmologists, both groups who have "medical" training regarding the eye.
ray - 26 May 2008 14:21 GMT >> Fuch's is not rare, and it's difficult to miss if you're paying attention. >> >> -MT, OD It is my understanding that it affects about 1% of the population making it relatively rare. My eye doctor who sees people with eye problems says he sees 1 or 2 cases a month. It may be difficult to miss if you are paying attention, but in my case it took 3 doctors before I found one who was paying attention. I have corresponded with people who took 6 or more before the problem was found.
>> <jyaz...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >practice of optometrists, as well as ophthalmologists, both groups who >have "medical" training regarding the eye. The OP Jerry said "Now, when I try to read, it is like looking through glasses that are smeered with vasaline." which is a common complaint among Fuchs's sufferers. I was just pointing out that Fuchs's is a relatively rare, easy to diagnose condition that is frequently overlooked even by skilled medical practitioners.
Mike Tyner - 26 May 2008 22:44 GMT > are simple refractive changes, cataracts, and potential retinal > problems (diabetic retinopathy, macular degeneration, etc.) And such > an examination is directly in line with the skills and scope of > practice of optometrists, as well as ophthalmologists, both groups who > have "medical" training regarding the eye. I think the first doctor (an optometrist) had it right. He described yellowing and vacuoles. He blamed the diplopia on vacuoles ("little lenses") and while that was hogwash, it was closer than anyone else got.
Our OP (ray) said, early on, that his only symptom was monocular polyopia OU. There just aren't that many things that cause monocular polyplopia OU at age 67.
Fuch's isn't on the list, short of fresh central erosions. Fuch's is a red herring, when it comes to explaining the symptoms.
Ray described one LED looking like six, each in focus. He's got refractile wedges and medicare won't pay until he degrades to 20/40.
I didn't think early Fuch's was such a barrier to surgery, and I suspect another surgeon might not be so put off.
But waiting for 20/40 seems ill advised.
-MT
ray - 27 May 2008 17:03 GMT >> are simple refractive changes, cataracts, and potential retinal >> problems (diabetic retinopathy, macular degeneration, etc.) And such [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Ray described one LED looking like six, each in focus. He's got refractile >wedges and medicare won't pay until he degrades to 20/40. I appreciate your input, and value your opinion. I am still very confused. The polyopia came on overnight. After about a month it is not nearly as bad. Now there a bunch of images close together and seem to be more smeared than in good focus. The vision gets better and worse. The Muro drops seems to clear it up sometimes. I put up a home eye chart and my vision goes from 20/20 to about 20/50.
>I didn't think early Fuch's was such a barrier to surgery, and I suspect >another surgeon might not be so put off. The cataract surgeon measured corneal thickness of 645 and guttata of 3+. He said the Fuchs is fairly well advanced. How is it determined how far advanced it is? I am going for a cell count next month. Does that shed any more light on the subject? He said he has seen too many people with Fuchs that had bad results with cataract surgery that he does not recommend operating. John Hopkins says that it is usually OK for corneal thickness below 640. When I get motivated I will shop for a cornea surgeon. Do you have any recommendation for a good one in the pacific northwest? Or would you recommend a different cataract surgeon?
From the John Hopkins site:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/wilmer/conditions/fuchs/treatment/fuchs_cataracts.html
Fuchs Endothelial Corneal Dystrophy (FECD) and Cataracts
Some people with cataracts also have Fuchs Endothelial Corneal Dystrophy (FECD). If a Fuchs patient undergoes cataract surgery, the fragile endothelial cells of the cornea may be damaged. (The endothelial cells are those cells at the very back of the cornea. The endothelial cells deteriorate in patients with FECD.) The loss of too many of these cells can lead to edema (swelling) of the cornea. This edema can then sometimes lead to painful corneal bullae (blisters), deterioration of vision, and eventually, the need for a corneal transplant.
In summary, in a patient with FECD, a cataract surgery may hasten the need for a corneal transplant. Because of this risk, the corneas of FECD patients are examined carefully before cataract surgery. Sometimes, the eye doctor will decide that the patient should have both cataract surgery and a corneal transplant at the same time. By doing this, two separate surgeries are combined into one procedure, and recovery time is greatly reduced.
Recent research has helped doctors figure out when a Fuchs patient can have simple cataract surgery and when a Fuchs patient should have a combined surgery (cataract surgery plus corneal transplant). These researchers showed that many Fuchs patients with corneas thinner than 640 microns can usually have simple cataract surgery. (A micron is a very tiny unit of measurement. Each micron is 0.00004 inches long.)
Whenever a person with FECD has cataract surgery, the surgeon uses special jelly-like material called viscoelastic gel. Viscoelastic gel is put inside the eye to protect the back of the cornea during the surgery. The viscoelastic gel is then taken out again at the end of the surgery. This gel has been shown to greatly decrease endothelial cell loss during cataract surgery.
Ophthalmologic researchers are trying to figure out if there is a minimum number of endothelial cells that everyone has to have in order to see properly. Preliminary research, however, indicates that no absolute number exists for this threshold value. Instead, it seems to vary from patient to patient.
>But waiting for 20/40 seems ill advised. > >-MT p.clarkii@gmail.com - 28 May 2008 04:26 GMT > On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:44:30 -0500, "Mike Tyner" > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > >-MT Fuch's is commonplace. 1% of the population is quite a lot of people. I see people with various stages of Fuch's in my practice on a weekly basis.
Cataract surgeons are particularly alert to endothelial cell problems like Fuch's since those patients tend to have a higher rate of complications than people with healthy endothelial cells.
In its final stages, Fuch's can cause reduced vision, fluctuating vision, and pain. However, according to my training and experience, moderate Fuch's such as you seem to have is not a significant contributer to reduced vision. Perhaps you have cataracts, and the Fuch's has got the attention of your surgeon simply because it could impact the success of your surgery. If so, then cataracts is the primary problem and Fuch's is simply an aggravating circumstance that complicates your surgery.
Why are you planning on seeing a corneal surgeon? A corneal transplant (aka penetrating keratoplasty) is an appropriate treatment for end-stage Fuch's where the cornea is becoming opaque and acuity is significantly compromised. Is that what your doctor is telling you? Believe me, you don't want a corneal transplant unless its absolutely necessary because even a successful outcome is generally not very good.
ray - 28 May 2008 14:09 GMT >In its final stages, Fuch's can cause reduced vision, fluctuating >vision, and pain. However, according to my training and experience, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Believe me, you don't want a corneal transplant unless its absolutely >necessary because even a successful outcome is generally not very good. I will see the corneal surgeon on the recommendation of the cataract surgeon that I am currently seeing. Also with 3 different opinions so far I am looking for another expert opinion. Now that I know what condition I have I can ask better questions. Based on visual inspection the cataract guy is saying the Fuchs' is more than moderate. I am in no hurry whatsoever. My current vision fluctuates between 20/20 and 20/50. When reading for a couple hours the lines of print appear to be double and are hard to read. I can live with it. I thought the latest in Fuchs' was to just replace the endothelium layer.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 29 May 2008 04:08 GMT > I > thought the latest in Fuchs' was to just replace the endothelium > layer. indeed. the procedure is called DSEK. there is not yet exhaustive clinical experience with this procedure versus penetrating keratoplasty but it appears to be significantly better. the biggest problem you may have is finding a surgeon who has a lot of experience with it. but this is something you need to discuss with your doctor.
jyazelz@peoplepc.com - 26 May 2008 15:54 GMT >> Does Fuchs's appear to be similar to a mass of blood (or similar material) >> in that when the eye is not very active it spreads across the vision to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >-MT, OD ====================
Thanks for the info.
Glenn Hagele - USAEyes.org - 25 May 2008 05:09 GMT You are quite right that there are many different possible reasons for your vision difficulties, but your age and symptoms would indicate that cataracts are a likely source of the problem. Cataracts are when the natural lens within the eye becomes cloudy.
Cataract surgery involves removing the old cloudy lens and replacing it with an artificial lens.
A comprehensive evaluation by a medical eye doctor does seem to be in order.
Glenn Hagele Executive Director USAEyes (R) Patient Advocacy Surgeon Certification
"Consider and Choose With Confidence" (TM)
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
Lasik Bulletin Board http://www.USAEyes.org/Ask-Lasik-Expert/
I am not a doctor.
Copyright 2008 All Rights Reserved
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