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Medical Forum / General / Vision / April 2008

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Welcome to sci.med.vision (3/31)

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The Real Bev - 31 Mar 2008 16:26 GMT
Executive summary by Bev:

                            There are a number of people here
                            with no medical credentials at all and a
                            lot of opinions bordering on religious
                            belief. The people trying to promote the
                            Bates Method, "The Plus" lens and pinhole
                            glasses are examples of this behavior.

                            Before acting, do some research.
                            -----------------------------------------

Please do not post comments and discussion under this
subject. PLEASE take your posts to other existing threads
or start one with a new subject line. This notice is posted
weekly on Monday (mostly!).

                         WELCOME TO THE SCI.MED.VISION NEWSGROUP

The purpose of this newsgroup is to discuss issues related to
eye health and vision care from a scientific viewpoint.
Issues for discussion include (but are not limited to): how
the eye works, vision problems and how they may be corrected,
eye health concerns, how they happen and how they may be
remedied, as well as items related to new research and
associated findings.

This group is the place to learn about these issues and
readers are advised that opinions expressed here may come
from eye care professionals (optometrists, ophthalmologists,
opticians, ophthalmic researchers) as well as the general
public.

From time to time we experience posters who espouse certain
viewpoints that are hoaxes, mythology, disproven theories and
outright scams. If someone is desperately trying to convince
you of something or uses demeaning and abusive language, you
might be correct in assuming that they have an agenda and
their views are not consistent with current science.  If it
sounds too good to be true, it probably is. The people trying
to promote the Bates Method are one such example of this
behavior.

When reading and gathering information, be aware of the
source and use good judgment. Do not base vital health care
decisions on information obtained in this forum without
consulting a practitioner who can clearly understand your
issues and examine the situation first hand, in person.

Please do not reply to posters in an effort to denounce,
ridicule, embarrass or otherwise engage in non-productive
discussion. That's called "feeding the trolls" and wastes
space on hundreds of thousands of newsserver hard drives and
personal computers around the world.  If you are bothered by
the tone or content of a thread, don't read it or learn how
to make the subject or author not appear in the list of
topics. This is called kill-filing or filtering.  For more
information on how to set up filters and kill-files, please
see the documentation for your newsreader application or go
to:

     <http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm>

For additional information, the official sci.med.vision FAQ
(last updated in 1997) can be found at:

     <http://www.faqs.org/faqs/vision-faq/>

Thank you for participating in our unmoderated open forum.
Zetsu - 31 Mar 2008 16:48 GMT
>Thank you for participating in our unmoderated open forum.

YOUR?

YOU own this group?

Really?

Or just trying to put yourself in position of authority?

The readers of this group should think for themselves instead of
listening to a post which sounds very professional and authorititive
but actually, it's dumb!

The Bates method is not 'too good to be true'. It is just a sad and
deplorable situation in which we have the majority that are very
stubborn and inert people who do not want to try out something new and
get a cure. The "authority" (you) makes statements that look very big
and mature but you yourself never even tried the cure of imperfect
sight. Now this authority goes unquestioned by the weak and the
guallables who come to this group. So the sequence continues onwards,
for many years. No one questions, no one tries, no one gets any good
progress.

This is why we do not have yet the real proof of Bates' method
efficacy. To the eye doctors and vision researchers this is what I
have to say: You as the professionals, ought to be putting in all the
efforts to test out new methods. Who am I? Just a little kid who is
still in secondary school! I have no knowledge of the ocular anatomy,
no knowledge of anything in the Eyecare world! It's just me,
completely unprofessional, am learning the cure of imperfect sight!
And getting real results! Without hardly ANY knowledge of its
physiology!

And yet you, as professionals in your own field, unable to give any
real cures to your patients, just give them glasses or cut their
cornea and condemn them to their reliances for the rest of their life!
Surely you should have the greatest motivation for the task of
producing trials and whatnot.

Imagine what you could do, with your power!

We call to you, urge you in this time of greatest need, to direct your
efforts into understanding the cure of imperfect sight! The suffering
of the poor and the weak should end here! The iatrogenic era has been
unnecesarily endured, unquestioningly, for too long

If you try the rest methods first, then write this post saying 'it
doesn't work' then that is slightly more acceptable. But you did not
even try! Not even a little bit! You show not even the SLIGHTEST bit
of curiosity or interest.

You just continue to mock and ridicule a treatment without having any,
not even a small wisp, of understanding on the subject.

Is this scientific, I ask.
Neil Brooks - 31 Mar 2008 17:06 GMT
> The readers of this group should think for themselves instead of
> listening to a post which sounds very professional and authorititive
> but actually, it's dumb!

That makes /some/ sense, but ... if you really think about it ...
you're asking them to listen to YOUR posts which do NOT sound
professional OR authoritative, AND are actually dumb, so ... pot ...
kettle ... black.

> The Bates method is not 'too good to be true'. It is just a sad and
> deplorable situation in which we have the majority that are very
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> This is why we do not have yet the real proof of Bates' method
> efficacy.

Nah.  You're just whining and pissing in the wind (a la Otis) now.

Go find an optometric college, and petition them to work with you on
the design of a proper study.

Let us know the response.

> To the eye doctors and vision researchers this is what I
> have to say: You as the professionals, ought to be putting in all the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> And getting real results! Without hardly ANY knowledge of its
> physiology!

And ... obviously ... even LESS knowledge of "real results."

How's that stat class coming?  How about logic?  Add that to your
list.  Let us know when you get to "after that, therefore because of
that," or "post hoc ergo propter hoc" or "false cause" or "correlation
does not equal causation."

We'll be here.

> And yet you, as professionals in your own field, unable to give any
> real cures to your patients, just give them glasses or cut their
> cornea and condemn them to their reliances for the rest of their life!
> Surely you should have the greatest motivation for the task of
> producing trials and whatnot.

They've never ... ever ... seen any evidence ... that any of the
methods you recommend (tried by thousands and thousands and thousands
of patients each year) ... work.

And your repugnant efforts at ongoing proof by assertion do nothing to
sway them.

Plus, you have a slight .... credibility problem ... that you choose
to ignore.

Sorry, Bev.  I'm done tacking on to this thread....
Zetsu - 31 Mar 2008 18:06 GMT
Yeah, say sorry to 'Master Bev.'

He is Your Grand Master.

The Real Bev knows all!

Commandeth he you heed his words!
Zetsu - 31 Mar 2008 18:14 GMT
>There are a number of people here
>with no medical credentials at all and a
>lot of opinions bordering on religious
> belief. The people trying to promote the
>Bates Method, "The Plus" lens and pinhole
>glasses are examples of this behavior.

>Before acting, do some research.

Who are you to say 'do some research'?

Did you do any research about the great Dr. Bates method of curing
imperfect sight? Have you even tried it out, even just to demonstrate
a few of the facts?

Look at yourselves before you say 'do some research'.

I mean what a joke!
Simon Dean - 31 Mar 2008 23:12 GMT
>> Thank you for participating in our unmoderated open forum.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Really?

Please leave... I support the right to free speech, but I do believe in
netiquette, and you just post information that is off topic in
sci.med.vision. Please if you want to post your information, please
setup a website, or your own forum.

I'd be willing to help you get this off the ground provided you and your
ilk stop posting here.
spammer - 01 Apr 2008 02:40 GMT
> Please leave... I support the right to free speech, but I do believe in
> netiquette, and you just post information that is off topic in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I'd be willing to help you get this off the ground provided you and your
> ilk stop posting here.

 Start a website? That retard couldn't start a lawn mower even if you
started it up for her/him/it.
Mike Tyner - 01 Apr 2008 03:15 GMT
> Or just trying to put yourself in position of authority?

Why not? You do.

> stubborn and inert people who do not want to try out something new and
> get a cure.

Next you'll recommend leeches and arsenic. I won't be trying that either.

> have to say: You as the professionals, ought to be putting in all the
> efforts to test out new methods.

So show us a new method.

> And getting real results!

I don't believe you. I don't believe you've ever seen retinitis pigmentosa,
much less cured it.

> And yet you, as professionals in your own field, unable to give any
> real cures to your patients,

Better than fraud.

> You just continue to mock and ridicule a treatment

If you don't like ridicule, don't be ridiculous.

> Is this scientific, I ask.

It "scientific" means blindly swallowing debunked crap, no thank you.

-MT
Zetsu - 01 Apr 2008 11:39 GMT
>Start a website? That retard couldn't start a lawn mower even if you
>started it up for her/him/it.

Shut up!

Actually, I know how to write HTML and some PHP, and I already made
numerous websites for my friends so be quiet.

>It "scientific" means blindly swallowing debunked crap, no thank you.

Debunked? Where? Please tell!

>Please leave... I support the right to free speech, but I do believe in
>netiquette, and you just post information that is off topic in
>sci.med.vision.

LOL! You think the cure of imperfect sight is irrelevant in
sci.med.VISION? LOL. There's like a gazillion people who come here
because they ARE HAVING VISION PROBLEMS! And the means by which they
can cure these problems is irrelevant? Wow.

>So show us a new method.

Read the 1920s book! It's all in there, dear! Well, it's not new to
those of us who have tried it, but for you it could be called 'new',
because you never tried it in the first place.
spammer - 02 Apr 2008 01:58 GMT
> LOL! You think the cure of imperfect sight is irrelevant in
> sci.med.VISION? LOL. There's like a gazillion people who come here
> because they ARE HAVING VISION PROBLEMS! And the means by which they
> can cure these problems is irrelevant? Wow.

 Since the "Bates" method has always been a complete failure, those
"gazillion" people won't be helped by a groupie as you. So, here's
your mower.
Zetsu - 02 Apr 2008 02:28 GMT
Yeah, you need a mower for your hair.
It's too difficult to cut because you never shower and it's become
grass like!

So, hand me that mower and I'll give you a nice trim!
Only $5!!
 
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