Medical Forum / General / Vision / November 2007
New lens technologies?
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Dave Bell - 14 Nov 2007 15:11 GMT Does anyone here know of any company, university, etc. developing holographic lenses, particularly implants? We now have the computing power and optical technology that should be able to correct virtually any (fixed) focus error, astigmatism, even compensate for macular surface shape errors (short of serious folds.) I've been searching for some sign of research hitting the marketplace, but so far, only a few vaguely related patents, and non-ocular optics.
Dave
Dr. Leukoma - 15 Nov 2007 04:06 GMT > Does anyone here know of any company, university, etc. developing > holographic lenses, particularly implants? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave I know that there are spectacle lenses derived from wavefront maps, and soon there will be soft contact lenses. I know that wavefront is being use in conjunction with the development of accommodating IOL's.
Is that what you mean?
Dave Bell - 15 Nov 2007 04:50 GMT >> Does anyone here know of any company, university, etc. developing >> holographic lenses, particularly implants? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Is that what you mean? Getting close, for sure!
I was also thinking in terms of holographic optical elements, resulting in very thin, light lenses.
Mike Tyner - 15 Nov 2007 04:55 GMT > I was also thinking in terms of holographic optical elements, resulting in > very thin, light lenses. It's hard to see how holographs could be used to converge or diverge light.
Do you mean "diffractive" optics? That already works, sorta.
-MT
Dave Bell - 15 Nov 2007 06:46 GMT >> I was also thinking in terms of holographic optical elements, resulting in >> very thin, light lenses. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -MT Basically, yes! Diffractive elements could be computer generated, incorporating wavefront correcting gratings in media like film. They would be similar to white-light holograms...
Glenn - USAEyes.org - 15 Nov 2007 09:06 GMT >>> I was also thinking in terms of holographic optical elements, resulting in >>> very thin, light lenses. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >incorporating wavefront correcting gratings in media like film. They >would be similar to white-light holograms... The HUGE problem with attempting to incorporate wavefront correcting Higher Order Aberration (HOA) correction into lenses is registration. The slightest misalignment of optics to correction causes a cascading effect and degradation of vision.
I am relatively knowledgeable of optic wavefront analysis in humans and the use of wavefront-guided corneal ablation during Lasik and similar refractive surgery with the goal of correcting Lower Order Aberration (LOA), which is sphere and cylinder, and not inducing HOA, which is commonly represented in Zernike polynomials.
I have just returned from a medical convention where iZon had a booth. I have always been suspicious of iZon's "wavefront glasses" because I understand the role of registration in HOA correction. Let me give a (believe it or not) simple example.
The Zernike polynomial Spherical Aberration (SA) can be described as the periphery of the optic having a different spherical refractive error as the center. A person can be plano in the middle of the optic and a have a 2.00 myopic ring around the edges.
Make an "O" with your right thumb and finger, put it in front of you, look through the center, and imagine that this represents the SA. Center is plano, your fingers represent a ring that is -2.00.
Now make a circle with your left thumb and finger. This circle is a lens created to correct the SA. The outer ring has 2.00 diopters of correction and the center is plano. Align the two rings together. This is the theoretical correction of the HOA known as Spherical Aberration with the use of a lens. What is -2.00 in the optic of the right hand is corrected with a perfectly aligned 2.00 lens.
Now move your left hand to the left and take the two O's out of alignment. What have you done?
Where the lens (left hand) is over the plano portion of the optic (right hand), you have created 2.00 diopters of hyperopia, but only where these two planes intersect. Where the lens is over the myopic portion of the optic you have plano. Where there is no lens over the plano center of the optic you have plano. What you have created is the HOA known as Horizontal Coma, which is on the next level down the Zernike pyramid. All this by simply changing the alignment of the lens to the optics.
And that is only with SA, which is probably the least exotic of the Zernike polynomials of HOA.
Each time you misalign optic to correction at a Zernike, you induce HOA for each lower level of the Zernike pyramid, cascading down through an infinite number of mathematical possibilities.
That is a long way to say that you cannot correct HOA if you cannot align the correction precisely to the aberrated optic. When you get down to the seventh level of Zernike, which is what iZon says their aberrometer measures, you are talking about alignment with a tolerance of less than a portion of microns and less than a percentage of a single degree.
Glasses cannot maintain this kind of alignment. Even contact lenses are unable to maintain this kind of alignment. Think of your toric lens fittings. Try to achieve that to within .0005 degree. And forget about what the tear film does.
I had talked with iZon's representatives before and never received an adequate answer to my probing questions about their "wavefront glasses". At this convention I spoke at length with their representatives and this time I received comprehensive responses. Well, at least more than I had received before.
The iZon aberrometer purportedly measures LOA (sphere and cylinder) and HOA down to the seventh Zernike level. That really is far enough as much farther and the aberrations are of proportionately less clinical significance. Anyway, they take this "wavefront" and translate it into a spherocylindrical correction which is then ground onto high quality material lenses within 1/8th of a diopter tolerance. The representative finally acknowledged that they don't really correct HOA with their glasses, but that they use a wavefront analysis to create a spherocylindrical lens.
Okay, now that makes sense. That is also why if you check a set of iZon glasses, you will have both spherical and cylinder correction at all points on the lens. Sorry iZon, but that is not correcting HOA. That is using an autorefractor (albeit an autorefractor on steroids that is probably better than anything else on the market) and very good materials with a higher than average tolerance.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that iZon glasses are inferior. Not at all. In fact we have received reports from patients with refractive surgery induced vision problems report that they were greatly impressed with the quality of their vision with iZon spectacles and I often suggest that a patient consider iZon and discuss them with there eye doctor. But for all that iZon glasses are, they are not correcting HOA.
I'm sure that an iZon mucky-muck would say that they have never actually said that the correct the HOA wavefront, but you have all heard the sales pitch so you draw your own conclusions.
Not surprisingly my questioning raised another question that the rep could not answer. The iZon representative said that their aberrometer does not use Hartmann-Shack or Tscherning technology for their aberrometer...but could not say what they do use. That is like saying that their car does not use an internal combustion engine or an electric motor, they don't know what is under the hood, but it goes faster than everyone else's car.
I guess you can describe me as a cynic who desperately wants to believe.
Glenn Hagele Executive Director USAEyes (R) Patient Advocacy Surgeon Certification
"Consider and Choose With Confidence" (TM)
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
Lasik Bulletin Board http://www.USAEyes.org/Ask-Lasik-Expert/
I am not a doctor.
Copyright 2007 All Rights Reserved
Dr. Leukoma - 15 Nov 2007 13:58 GMT On Nov 15, 3:06 am, Glenn - USAEyes.org <glenn.hageleSTOPS...@USAEyes.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 06:46:35 GMT, Dave Bell > [quoted text clipped - 141 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Perhaps the sales rep did not have a sufficient grasp of the technology. Izon has designed their own aberrometer, according to this patent: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006SPIE.6306E..18L . It is a diffraction based aberrometer, and results in a phase plate that is sandwiched between two lenses. I presume the phase plate handles only the higher orders, with the lenses correcting the sphere and cylinder.
There is no question that registration is critical. But it is also true that benefits can be derived with the proper selection of aberrations. I learned several years ago that some aberrations are not as positionally sensitive as others.
Wavefront contacts are coming soon. The language of adaptive optics is the future.
Glenn - USAEyes.org - 15 Nov 2007 18:14 GMT >Perhaps the sales rep did not have a sufficient grasp of the >technology. Izon has designed their own aberrometer, according to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >only the higher orders, with the lenses correcting the sphere and >cylinder. You would think that someone at the iZon booth would have been able to provide this information. Nobody there could respond to the question, nor did anyone offer to find someone who could respond to the question of what technology is used.
>There is no question that registration is critical. But it is also >true that benefits can be derived with the proper selection of >aberrations. Absolutely, however it appears that lens-based correction will be limited to LOA. It may be the most precise LOA correction available, but iZon lenses do not reliably correct HOA, just sphere and cylinder.
>I learned several years ago that some aberrations are >not as positionally sensitive as others. Not only is this true, but it is different for each person. People with high measurable HOA still have excellent visual acuity because of the neuroadaptation of the brain taking advantage of an aberrated optic.
One adaptive optics test used adult subjects and dynamically removed all LOA and HOA in the lab. The patients with a "perfect" wavefront optics complained of very poor vision quality. As the scientists added the HOA back in, vision improved.
The brain learns how to do the best it can with what it has. Change what it has and you can get undesirable results.
Glenn Hagele Executive Director USAEyes (R) Patient Advocacy Surgeon Certification
"Consider and Choose With Confidence" (TM)
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
Lasik Bulletin Board http://www.USAEyes.org/Ask-Lasik-Expert/
I am not a doctor.
Copyright 2007 All Rights Reserved
Dr. Leukoma - 15 Nov 2007 21:25 GMT On Nov 15, 12:14 pm, Glenn - USAEyes.org <glenn.hageleSTOPS...@USAEyes.org> wrote:
> One adaptive optics test used adult subjects and dynamically removed > all LOA and HOA in the lab. The patients with a "perfect" wavefront > optics complained of very poor vision quality. As the scientists added > the HOA back in, vision improved. Yes, and then there was the case where HOA's were improved and the visual acuity decreased, but the patient saw better.
DrG
Glenn - USAEyes.org - 16 Nov 2007 00:02 GMT >Yes, and then there was the case where HOA's were improved and the >visual acuity decreased, but the patient saw better. > >DrG The more we learn, the more we realize we don't know.
Glenn Hagele Executive Director USAEyes (R) Patient Advocacy Surgeon Certification
"Consider and Choose With Confidence" (TM)
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
Lasik Bulletin Board http://www.USAEyes.org/Ask-Lasik-Expert/
I am not a doctor.
Copyright 2007 All Rights Reserved
Robert Martellaro - 15 Nov 2007 18:20 GMT >I have just returned from a medical convention where iZon had a booth. You might find this interesting.
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19540&highlight=iZon
Scroll and page down to posts by xiaowei, Meister, and a few others.
Robert Martellaro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Optician/Owner Roberts Optical Wauwatosa Wi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself." - Richard Feynman
Mike Tyner - 15 Nov 2007 12:42 GMT > Basically, yes! Diffractive elements could be computer generated, > incorporating wavefront correcting gratings in media like film. They would > be similar to white-light holograms... What Glenn said... :)
It boils down to this - wavefront correction only works if it moves precisely with the eye.
-MT
Dave Bell - 16 Nov 2007 01:55 GMT >> Basically, yes! Diffractive elements could be computer generated, >> incorporating wavefront correcting gratings in media like film. They would [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -MT Thus my interest in new-tech IOLs . . .
Good stuff in the replies - thanks for the info!
Dave
Dr. Leukoma - 16 Nov 2007 03:45 GMT > >> Basically, yes! Diffractive elements could be computer generated, > >> incorporating wavefront correcting gratings in media like film. They would [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Dave Why? Do you have cataracts?
DrG
Dave Bell - 16 Nov 2007 07:29 GMT >>>> Basically, yes! Diffractive elements could be computer generated, >>>> incorporating wavefront correcting gratings in media like film. They would [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > DrG No, I'm aphakic in one eye, with a macular fold, after an 18-month battle starting with a detached retina.
Dave
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 16 Nov 2007 05:03 GMT > It boils down to this - wavefront correction only works if it moves > precisely with the eye. > > -MT this has always seemed to be the critical and unexplained point to me as well.
regarding wavefront spectacle lenses, what if they become misaligned? what if the patient looks sideways through the lenses?
regarding IOL's, what if there is an ongoing change in floater within the vitreous? what if the lenses slowly changes its position in the capsular bag over time?
Seems like alignment would be too difficult to control adequately.
Dr. Leukoma - 16 Nov 2007 13:37 GMT On Nov 15, 11:03 pm, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:
> > It boils down to this - wavefront correction only works if it moves > > precisely with the eye. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Seems like alignment would be too difficult to control adequately. Regarding wavefront spectacles, the case is probably similar to that of progressive lenses, which is that within a range of eye movement, the vision is relatively clear. Also, there is probably a range of aberration beyond which it just isn't feasible to correct with spectacles.
With soft contacts, some method of ballasting is absolutely essential. If the lens does not exhibit stability, then it would probably be a "no go." RGP's can be made rather large and with asymmetrical peripheral curves such that the lens can be stabilized. Scleral lenses tend not to rotate.
Aberrations do change over time, and this will make total wavefront correction impractical to deliver surgically, unless the IOL or ICL can be "re-printed" with a laser without having to be explanted.
I expect the adoption of wavefront technology by the rank and file is going to take awhile.
DrG
Helpful person - 30 Nov 2007 13:45 GMT > Does anyone here know of any company, university, etc. developingholographiclenses, particularly implants? > We now have the computing power and optical technology that should be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dave You make the same error as many people. Holography is not a solution to give perfect correction. In general (with a few exceptions) you cannot do more with a holographic lens than you can with an aspheric lens.
In addition, holograsphy has several enormous disadvantages. These include not all the light being diffracted into the required order (particularly for transmission holograms) resulting in lots of flare, large chromatic abrerration, comparititvely poor environmental stability, expensive manufacture.
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