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Medical Forum / General / Vision / September 2007"lancaster red green test
I just came across this test. Could somebody give me some values for what kind of alignment accuracy would be found for a person of good vision at the distance point in degrees or some kind of measurement for a given distance? Have there been any tests done on people with good vision to see how their visual acuity is related to their foveal accuracy? I know it has been said on this board that people with exceptionally good vision have better retinal structure etc but i wonder if that is true? Could better vision be due to more skilled use of the eyes? Ie good vision is a psychophysical skill like playing a piano or juggling in that better vision requires better muscular coordination. What about for astigmatism? Any data for various angles and degrees of inaccuracy? Are there any treatment options to train better foveal integration? Any help appreciated Thanks Andrew Hi, You should read the Perfect Sight triology as written from the 1919-1930, and you will find all the answer is in there. Also, begin the rest methods and cure yourself. By the way, do you want to talk on MSN? We should arrange a time then we can get to each other. I am in London, so just use the GMT time. I added you to my contacts list. Anyhow, what have you been upto Andrew? Howcome you dont post here so much anymore? Sorry. Rishi (Zetsu) Giovanni Gatti is a long-time troll who haunts s.m.v. Otis Brown is another. You'd do well to ignore them and wait for responses from the caring, compassionate eye doctors who DO also participate in this site. Hi, >You'd do well to ignore them and wait for responses from the caring, >compassionate eye doctors who DO also participate in this site. The eye doctors here are caring and compassionate, so I wont deny it. But they are terribly misguided, they do not know how to cure people. I am just telling people about the cure of imperfect sight via rest methods. People have a RIGHT to know! The readers can chose to ignore, but Mr.Brooks, I think we should let them decide that for themselves, and you should not make up their mind for them. I think the reader is more than intelligent enough to think and discern for themselves. To reader: if you wish to cure yourself of imperfect sight, go to the online library of the Perfect Sight trilogy, on www.centralfixation.com . If you read the books there, you will be enlightened to the knowledge of how to cure yourself without the aid of eye glass crutches. You can take your pick, I will not force you to read my view or the views of the doctors. The truths, or the conceived idiocy of the eyecare profession. You can chose for yourself. But Neil will tell you to ignore me (he is scared that people might get cured, because he is very greedy) so you can chose whether to ignore me or not. Remember: It's YOUR choice! Make the right decision. On Sep 15, 5:29 pm, andrewedwardj...@hotmail.com wrote: > I just came across this test. > > Could somebody give me some values for what kind of alignment accuracy > would be found for a person of good vision at the distance point in > degrees or some kind of measurement for a given distance? It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia, measurement will be unrelated to acuity. As in all biometric measures, a plot of measures of a population will have a normal distribution curve. A particular person's measure is their measure and is a function of anatomy; no measure is "good" or "bad", it simply is what it is. If binocular problems are present, there are various exercises (orthoptics) to build better compensating vergences but you cannot change your phoria. Dr Judy >>the magnitude of a phoria or tropia, measurement will be unrelated to acuity. Dr Judy Do you have studies to support this for tropias? If a tropia represents a constant deviation then since the fovea will not be in the best position for the target then if this test shows foveal misalignment then acuity has to be impacted by the deviation. In human eyes acuity rapidly falls away from the centre of best vision. It would therefore be unusual for acuity to be good if the foveas were not correctly aligned. Andrew >>It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia, measurement will be unrelated to acuity. If the patient is correctly aligning their foveas and yet the measuring observer sees targets that do not overlap then that could be true But if the test is revealing constantly misaligned foveas as tropias or strabismus then acuity cannot be the same as for an accurately aligned normal fovea. I am inclined to believe at this stage that the test reveals misaligned foveas which potentially could be corrected with the appropriate training method - even if one has not yet been discovered. On Sep 16, 9:50 pm, andrewedwardj...@hotmail.com wrote: > >>It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > misaligned foveas which potentially could be corrected with the > appropriate training method - even if one has not yet been discovered. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Hess-Lancaster test is not designed to measure foveation. It is designed to measure heterophorias and strabismus, and to differentiate paralytic from non-paralytic strabismus. If you want to test binocular fixation disparity, then you should use a Mallett fixation disparity test that has a fixation target. However, this is still not the approach I would use. I would use a Haidinger Brush because it more precisely defines the location of the fovea in relation to the object of fixation. This is what we use to train monocular fixation when amblyopia is present. Or, you could go back to school and get an optometry degree. > If you want to test binocular fixation disparity, then you should use > a Mallett fixation disparity test that has a fixation target. > However, this is still not the approach I would use. I would use a > Haidinger Brush because it more precisely defines the location of the > fovea in relation to the object of fixation. This is what we use to > train monocular fixation when amblyopia is present. Excellent. Definately the most interesting thing i have learnt for a while:-) On Sep 16, 10:50 pm, andrewedwardj...@hotmail.com wrote: > >>It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > or strabismus then acuity cannot be the same as for an accurately > aligned normal fovea. The test is not measuring whether the person is aligning their foveas with the target, it is measuring the amount of misalignment between the two eyes. In strabismus, both eyes may align foveas with monocular viewing but one eye will be misaligned during binocular viewing. With phoria, both eyes align foveas but extraocular muscles are needed to achieve binocular foveal alignment. Other tests are used to uncover foveal misalignment --- fixation disparity tests and Hadinger brush tests. > I am inclined to believe at this stage that the test reveals > misaligned foveas which potentially could be corrected with the > appropriate training method - even if one has not yet been discovered. Training exercises for binocular muscle imbalances, fixation disparity and foveal fixation have been in use for decades. Dr Judy > On Sep 16, 10:50 pm, andrewedwardj...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Dr Judy Dr Judy I was I believe told by you there are no successful methods of retraining the eyes to correct strabismus after the early childhood years. And now you and Dr Leukoma are telling me there are methods for training which can help in strabismus? Or are you saying something different here? Andrew On Sep 17, 12:40 pm, andrewedwardj...@hotmail.com wrote: > > On Sep 16, 10:50 pm, andrewedwardj...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Fixation disparity, binocular vision problems and eccentric fixation are not strabismus; eccentric fixation might be the result of strabismus but the others are discorders of non strabismic eyes. You may be confusing strabismus with amblyopia. Amblyopia needs to be treated before age 6 for good results although some improvement is possible up to age 16/17. Strabismus is best treated with surgery with orthopics sometimes also used after surgery. Some claim to be able to treat strabismus in adults with training alone but the success rates are limited; likely less than 10%. I would call a method with success rates that low "unsuccessful". Strabismus has a number of other fusion problems associated with it and they will persist after surgery: amblyopia, eccentric fixation, anomolous correspondance, central suppresion, monofixational phoria. These problems can be addressed with various training exercises in an attempt to establish fusion and build binocular vision. Success is limited and takes a lot of time. Dr Judy |
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