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Medical Forum / General / Vision / September 2007

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unilateral cataract - plano, matching or other?

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FourEyes - 13 Sep 2007 21:10 GMT
hi, my mother, in her 60s, is scheduled for cataract surgery on
monday.  a longstanding issue is whether to have her one cataract eye
corrected to distance plano with the monofocal IOL or made to match
with the myopic of the fellow eye to reduce the anisometropia that
follows.  both eyes are roughly -6.0 diopter, with mild astigmatism,
and the fellow eye is relatively clear, so it may not need surgery for
a few years.  (the unilateral cataract is not trauma induced that we
know of.)

the surgeon prefers plano for himself but acknowledges that with
anisometropia the patient would find vision so much better through the
corrected plano eye, that the patient would soon opt for surgery on
the other eye.  (i believe the doctor motivated by a personal
preference of clear vision or symmetry over commercial interest.  he's
not the procedure pushy kind.)  my mom would rather not have the
fellow eye operated sooner than otherwise necessary just to match the
first.

a second ophthalmologist she consulted recommended a -2.0 diopter
correction, as a compromise step towards perfect far vision?

what's the experience of having one plano corrected eye and a -6.0
diopter uncorrected eye?  is wearing eye glasses for this combination
(one lense cosmetic?) less comfortable an experience than to have both
eyes matched?  what about with one eye corrected to -2.0 diopter?

i realize there is no clear cut answer, but i would like to hear more
voices or experience to help with the decision.  a search on the web
turns up less than handful of mentions of this issue and no
meainingful discussion at all. thanks.
Mike Tyner - 13 Sep 2007 21:26 GMT
> what's the experience of having one plano corrected eye and a -6.0
> diopter uncorrected eye?  is wearing eye glasses for this combination
> (one lense cosmetic?) less comfortable an experience than to have both
> eyes matched?

Almost guaranteed.

> what about with one eye corrected to -2.0 diopter?

Better, maybe the best compromise.

-MT, OD
Jane - 14 Sep 2007 00:45 GMT
> hi, my mother, in her 60s, is scheduled for cataract surgery on
> monday.  a longstanding issue is whether to have her one cataract eye
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> turns up less than handful of mentions of this issue and no
> meainingful discussion at all. thanks.

I don't believe that glasses would work with one eye plano and the
other -6D.  (Your mother would probably have double vision with
glasses.)  She would have to wear a contact lens in one eye to have
comfortable, acceptable vision.

If the eye with the cataract were corrected to -4D (and the other was
-6D), glasses would probably work.  But what a missed opportunity to
finally have good uncorrected vision (in my opinion, anyway).

I suspect that your mother is anticipating that cataract surgery is
much worse than it is.  I found it to be a painless procedure.  I only
had to spend about 90 minutes in the surgery center that morning, and
the surgery itself took only about 10 minutes.  After lunch that day.
I walked over to the local multiplex to see a movie.  (I hated the
thought of wasting an afternoon off work.)  But the eyes are your
mother's, and she should have the final say about how she wants her
vision corrected.
FourEyes - 14 Sep 2007 06:13 GMT
Jane, Mom has heard stories about botched or unlucky operations.  They
weigh heavily on her.  I know the odds for the modern procedure is
quite good.  i'm glad yours turned out well and smoothly.  (did you
have to return the same day to have your eye pressure measured? )  i
agree on the value of having glass free far dvision but she's too
conservative add is quite used to glasses anyway.  -Ming

> > hi, my mother, in her 60s, is scheduled for cataract surgery on
> > monday.  a longstanding issue is whether to have her one cataract eye
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> mother's, and she should have the final say about how she wants her
> vision corrected.
Robert Martellaro - 14 Sep 2007 00:53 GMT
>hi, my mother, in her 60s, is scheduled for cataract surgery on
>monday.  a longstanding issue is whether to have her one cataract eye
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>corrected plano eye, that the patient would soon opt for surgery on
>the other eye.

The problem is not that she would see so much better (corrected) in the right
eye than the left eye, instead it will be the amount of discomfort from the
brain trying to fuse, two different size images. The discomfort can be severe,
with the potential for diplopia, that's remedied only by occlusion or contact
lens. And that's just the distance vision. There will be additional
complications with the near vision, although these may be minimized with
specially made glasses (Slab).  

>(i believe the doctor motivated by a personal
>preference of clear vision or symmetry over commercial interest.  he's
>not the procedure pushy kind.)  my mom would rather not have the
>fellow eye operated sooner than otherwise necessary just to match the
>first.

I wear a -4.50 Rx and have very clear vision (corrected). Moreover, I read
comfortably in bed at night without glasses, and can see very small objects and
very fine print uncorrected. Ask your mom if she takes her glasses off on
occasion when performing near tasks like reading the instructions on
medications. Ask her if she would prefer to put on reading glasses along with a
magnifier instead.  

>a second ophthalmologist she consulted recommended a -2.0 diopter
>correction, as a compromise step towards perfect far vision?

Too much of a compromise unless it's short term. I don't understand the
compromising- unless your mother strongly desires to reduce her reliance on
eyeglasses. If true, then she needs to have both eyes done in a relatively short
time frame, and the Rx goal should be about -.50 sphere equivalent. If not, then
compromise should not be in your surgeons lexicon, at least not in this case.


>what's the experience of having one plano corrected eye and a -6.0
>diopter uncorrected eye?  is wearing eye glasses for this combination
>(one lense cosmetic?) less comfortable an experience than to have both
>eyes matched?  what about with one eye corrected to -2.0 diopter?

-6.00 and  plano won't work. Her brain might accept -6.00 and -2.00 without
diplopia but there would still be some degree of discomfort. Moreover, there
would still be a need for specially made lenses to decrease the discomfort when
reading. I don't see why -2.00 should be on the table- unless the fellow eye
will get an IOL in the very short term, which seems unlikely.

>i realize there is no clear cut answer, but i would like to hear more
>voices or experience to help with the decision.  a search on the web
>turns up less than handful of mentions of this issue and no
>meainingful discussion at all. thanks.

Strong consideration should be given to matching, especially on the vertical
meridian, the Rx of the fellow eye. The result will be comfortable vision (if
there are no complications with the surgery) at all distances- essentially no
change from the pre to post-op.

Hope this helps

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
FourEyes - 14 Sep 2007 08:13 GMT
> The problem is not that she would see so much better (corrected) in the right
> eye than the left eye, instead it will be the amount of discomfort from the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> complications with the near vision, although these may be minimized with
> specially made glasses (Slab).

> I wear a -4.50 Rx and have very clear vision (corrected). Moreover, I read
> comfortably in bed at night without glasses, and can see very small objects and
> very fine print uncorrected. Ask your mom if she takes her glasses off on
> occasion when performing near tasks like reading the instructions on
> medications. Ask her if she would prefer to put on reading glasses along with a
> magnifier instead.

Robert, if I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that if her
two eyes were to have anisometropia that she would need reading
glasses and a magnifier for one eye in the instances you mentioned?

> Too much of a compromise unless it's short term. I don't understand the
> compromising- unless your mother strongly desires to reduce her reliance on
> eyeglasses. If true, then she needs to have both eyes done in a relatively short
> time frame, and the Rx goal should be about -.50 sphere equivalent. If not, then
> compromise should not be in your surgeons lexicon, at least not in this case.

> -6.00 and  plano won't work. Her brain might accept -6.00 and -2.00 without
> diplopia but there would still be some degree of discomfort. Moreover, there
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> there are no complications with the surgery) at all distances- essentially no
> change from the pre to post-op.

How does the surgeon match the Rx on the vertical meridian?  IOL
placement or selection or by incisions?

So the compromise for someone not intending to get the fellow eye
operated immediately is worse vision or discomfort which could be
avoided with more closely matched powers?  Any opinion or experience
with patients with a 2 diopter difference?

Thanks, Robert, you've been helpful,
Ming

btw, on my last long drive, i listened to feynman lectures on cd.
shhhhh.  :-)

> Hope this helps
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> "Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
> - Richard Feynman
Robert - 14 Sep 2007 15:27 GMT
>> The problem is not that she would see so much better (corrected) in the right
>> eye than the left eye, instead it will be the amount of discomfort from the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>two eyes were to have anisometropia that she would need reading
>glasses and a magnifier for one eye in the instances you mentioned?

No, only if you eliminate the myopia.

>> Too much of a compromise unless it's short term. I don't understand the
>> compromising- unless your mother strongly desires to reduce her reliance on
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>How does the surgeon match the Rx on the vertical meridian?  IOL
>placement or selection or by incisions?

By carefully choosing an IOL power that minimizes any power differential on the
vertical meridian. Only an issue if there is moderate to high amounts corneal
astigmatism. You mentioned that your mom is astigmatic so I thought I'd throw
that in for consideration.

>So the compromise for someone not intending to get the fellow eye
>operated immediately is worse vision or discomfort which could be
>avoided with more closely matched powers?

Right.

> Any opinion or experience
>with patients with a 2 diopter difference?

Avoid it if you can.

>Thanks, Robert, you've been helpful,
>Ming

Your welcome.

>btw, on my last long drive, i listened to feynman lectures on cd.
>shhhhh.  :-)

Sounds like a very long drive.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa, Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
 - Richard Feynman
Ms.Brainy - 14 Sep 2007 01:20 GMT
> hi, my mother, in her 60s, is scheduled for cataract surgery on
> monday.  a longstanding issue is whether to have her one cataract eye
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> turns up less than handful of mentions of this issue and no
> meainingful discussion at all. thanks.

I am not a doctor, but was in a similar situation just a few months
ago.  I asked the same questions, did my research and reached my
conslusions.  The following is my opinion, based on the above.

First, I would delay surgery on the non-cataract eye until it becomes
necessary. Any surgery has some risk involved, even if only minimal,
but why take the risk as long as it can be avoided?

Given this, I would go for a difference of  -2D between the eyes, i.e.
she'll have -6D in one eye and -4D in the other.  This will improve
your mother's vision in the operated eye without causing any problems
of disparity.  Why not take advantage of the opportunity?  Please note
that a disparity larger than 2D will cause unwanted problems that
would force her to operate on the other eye that does not need a
cataract removal at this time.  Also be aware that the results of the
surgery in terms of visual acuity cannot always be predicted with
accuracy and they depend on the position that the IOL will eventually
settle on within the eye.

When your mother needs a cataract surgery on the second eye, have -4D
IOL, aiming to leave her at -2D.  Thus she'll end up with the first
eye at -4D and the second at -2D -- again a tollerable difference
resulting in improved vision.

Your mother will still need eyeglasses (or contacts) for some
activities, regardless of what course of action she chooses.  Even if
she does the two eyes now and achieves 20/20 vision in both, she'll
need reading glasses, and perhaps another prescription for mid-range
activities.  It is my opinion that the mid-range (computer, TV,
sitting with family and friends, cooking, etc.) is the most important
range in which most of us spend most of our time, and the desire to
achieve 20/20 with no ability to accommodate is not justified, giving
us freedom of glasses when driving or hunting, but short for all other
activities.

Not everybody would agree with me, but please consider my advice and
let us know what you decided.  Good luck to your mother.
FourEyes - 14 Sep 2007 06:08 GMT
> I am not a doctor, but was in a similar situation just a few months
> ago.  I asked the same questions, did my research and reached my
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> necessary. Any surgery has some risk involved, even if only minimal,
> but why take the risk as long as it can be avoided?

The medical thinking seems to be my mom would find her non-indicated
lense less clear compared to her new IOL and would want to have it
replaced immediately.  That may be true but it is nice to have the
option of being conservative.  A plano correction would leave no
little option it seems.

> Given this, I would go for a difference of  -2D between the eyes, i.e.
> she'll have -6D in one eye and -4D in the other.  This will improve
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> accuracy and they depend on the position that the IOL will eventually
> settle on within the eye.

I know no two patients have the same eyes -- if you see a disparity
between your new lense and your natural one, does it bother you?

This thread is the first time I've heard about the tolerable 2.0 D
gap.  Since you've had the surgery for a few months now, and you're
not complaining, i take it that the theory has worked out in
practice?

> When your mother needs a cataract surgery on the second eye, have -4D
> IOL, aiming to leave her at -2D.  Thus she'll end up with the first
> eye at -4D and the second at -2D -- again a tollerable difference
> resulting in improved vision.

I'll definitely discuss this option with the surgeon today (friday) or
monday pre-op.  i hope he has the -4.0 lense in stock...

> Your mother will still need eyeglasses (or contacts) for some
> activities, regardless of what course of action she chooses.  Even if
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> us freedom of glasses when driving or hunting, but short for all other
> activities.

Ms Brainy, under what circumstance would the following statement be
true?  That is, how could you achieve a 20/20 for a certain distance
with no ability to accomodate for other distances?

and the desire to
> achieve 20/20 with no ability to accommodate is not justified

> Not everybody would agree with me, but please consider my advice and
> let us know what you decided.  Good luck to your mother.

Thanks much!  You've been very helpful, i will report back.

-Ming

Oh btw, is there a reference to the tolerable 2D gap?  I believe it
but haven't heard of this option for unilaterial cataract surgery but
here.  (unilateral cataract surgery is not discussed much!)
Mike Tyner - 14 Sep 2007 13:18 GMT
> The medical thinking seems to be my mom would find her non-indicated
> lense less clear compared to her new IOL and would want to have it
> replaced immediately.  That may be true but it is nice to have the
> option of being conservative.  A plano correction would leave no
> little option it seems.

If corrected to plano in one eye, I've seen some who would just as soon
leave their glasses off and use the operated eye, with +2.25 drugstore
readers for reading. It's easier to ignore a very blurry eye than to
reconcile two different-sized images.

-MT
Dan Abel - 17 Sep 2007 21:06 GMT
> > Given this, I would go for a difference of  -2D between the eyes, i.e.

> I'll definitely discuss this option with the surgeon today (friday) or
> monday pre-op.  i hope he has the -4.0 lense in stock...

Not a concept, but I'm being picky.  She will need a strong plus lens,
once her natural lens (a strong plus) is removed.

> > Your mother will still need eyeglasses (or contacts) for some
> > activities, regardless of what course of action she chooses.


> Ms Brainy, under what circumstance would the following statement be
> true?  That is, how could you achieve a 20/20 for a certain distance
> with no ability to accomodate for other distances?

20/20 means twenty feet and twenty feet.  It doesn't apply to other
distances.

> Oh btw, is there a reference to the tolerable 2D gap?  I believe it
> but haven't heard of this option for unilaterial cataract surgery but
> here.  (unilateral cataract surgery is not discussed much!)

I've been there and done that.  My OMD said that 2D is the max.  I was
-10D and zero.  It didn't work well.

Consider contacts.
FourEyes - 14 Sep 2007 11:26 GMT
Thanks to Mike, Jane, Robert and Ms Brainy for replying.  I had some
follow up questions but then I looked and found a trove of background
material here on cataract surgeries by y'all and others, so I'll read
that.
FourEyes - 14 Sep 2007 12:11 GMT
Armed with the helpful ideas here, I emailed the surgeon and he wrote
back this morning saying he could do -4.50, instead of -4.0 for margin
of safety, then do -2.5 or -3.0 on the fellow eye whenever later,
which "would allow the fellow eye to read without glasses."  I think
my mother should be comfortable with this option that won't
necessitate immediately surgery on the good eye.

Follow up questions, Ms Brainy brought up the issues of accommodation
and distance.  I guess keeping the fellow eye natural will preserve
whatever accommodation there is?  (don't know if she has an ADD for
reading.)  about distance, this is not something i had thought
carefully about.  i had been willing to leave it in the surgeon's
hands.  but i should ask.  is the default IOL correction for
"distance" far distance?  and is mid-distance a more practical
distance and something that has to be specifically asked for?

Robert, 'matching the fellow Rx along the meridian axis' -- how does
the surgeon do that?  by selection of the IOL?  positioning?
incisions?  would it still matter for gapping -2.0 or -1.5 as we plan
to do here?

thanks,
Ming

btw, Feynman rules :-)

> hi, my mother, in her 60s, is scheduled for cataract surgery on
> monday.  a longstanding issue is whether to have her one cataract eye
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> turns up less than handful of mentions of this issue and no
> meainingful discussion at all. thanks.
Jane - 14 Sep 2007 12:53 GMT
> Armed with the helpful ideas here, I emailed the surgeon and he wrote
> back this morning saying he could do -4.50, instead of -4.0 for margin
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

I've been told that the average add post-cataract surgery is +2.25 to
+2.50.  If your mother is already in her 60's, she's almost certainly
needing an add for reading in that range at this point in time.  I
don't think she needs to worry about losing accomodation.
Robert - 14 Sep 2007 16:03 GMT
>Armed with the helpful ideas here, I emailed the surgeon and he wrote
>back this morning saying he could do -4.50, instead of -4.0 for margin
>of safety,

That's better, although the general definition of anisometropia is a difference
of one diopter between the eyes. This will leave a difference of about 1.50D,
enough to induce more than two diopters of prismatic imbalance when reading if
she wears progressive addition lenses. The prism is usually tolerated at this
level, especially if there are infrequent and short term close tasks. However,
it's not desirable, and should be avoided if possible.

>then do -2.5 or -3.0 on the fellow eye whenever later,
>which "would allow the fellow eye to read without glasses."  

The long term goal should be, for most folks, an equal refraction in both eyes.

Unless your mother isn't an avid reader or performs infrequent close tasks, I
would want to be able to read with both eyes, not just one eye.

>I think
>my mother should be comfortable with this option that won't
>necessitate immediately surgery on the good eye.


>Follow up questions, Ms Brainy brought up the issues of accommodation
>and distance.  I guess keeping the fellow eye natural will preserve
>whatever accommodation there is?  (don't know if she has an ADD for
>reading.)  

Very few sixty plus year olds have reserve accommodation.

>about distance, this is not something i had thought
>carefully about.  i had been willing to leave it in the surgeon's
>hands.  but i should ask.  is the default IOL correction for
>"distance" far distance?

Yes, unless monovision is considered, which should be avoided unless you're
absolutely sure that this would be best for the individual.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa, Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
 - Richard Feynman
FourEyes - 14 Sep 2007 20:27 GMT
I feeling I'm trying to put a shrunken bed sheet onto a mattress.
Once I fit one corner, I find another corner has come loose.

Mom says she reads everyday.  It sounds like prismatic imbalance when
reading is not something optical technology (eyeglasses) can fix.

At worse, she gets the -4.50 D and finds the prismatic imbalance
bothers her too much, she can get a matching -4.50 D later to restore
the balance.

> >Armed with the helpful ideas here, I emailed the surgeon and he wrote
> >back this morning saying he could do -4.50, instead of -4.0 for margin
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> "Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
>   - Richard Feynman
Robert Martellaro - 16 Sep 2007 20:30 GMT
>I feeling I'm trying to put a shrunken bed sheet onto a mattress.
>Once I fit one corner, I find another corner has come loose.

There are choices to be made, that's for sure. If your mother is given accurate
information she will have a  fairly straight forward decision to make.

>Mom says she reads everyday.  It sounds like prismatic imbalance when
>reading is not something optical technology (eyeglasses) can fix.

As I mentioned previously, specially designed lenses can eliminated the vertical
prism imbalance, and will probably not be necessary when the prismatic imbalance
is on the low side. It adds about $150 to the cost of one lens, and puts a line
across the lower third of the lens. It's usually unacceptable, cosmetically
speaking, to do so on a progressive addition lens. Alternatively, reading
glasses can be used, although both methods do not directly address the unequal
spectacle magnification, or minification in this case (see aniseikonia), which
has the potential to create additional discomfort at all distances.  

>At worse, she gets the -4.50 D and finds the prismatic imbalance
>bothers her too much, she can get a matching -4.50 D later to restore
>the balance.

Right, although most folks tolerate this degree of disparity in Rxs.

However, the only reason to put yourself in a position where there may be
discomfort is by not matching the Rx, and the only reason to do that is to
reduce the thickness and weight of one lens a slight amount (in this case),
keeping in mind that your mom has been wearing the same Rx for half of a
century, and that there are ways to make her present Rx lightweight and
cosmetically pleasing by careful selection of frame and lens designs.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
Zetsu - 16 Sep 2007 20:40 GMT
Hi,

>Firstly, most myopes I have encountered do not like being plano afterwards,

I dont understand, how can someone not want to be plano?

Isnt plano what everyone wants? I'm confused!
Neil Brooks - 16 Sep 2007 21:53 GMT
Sorry.  Rishi Giovanni Gatti (Zetsu) and Otis Brown are
long-time trolls who haunt s.m.v.

You'd do well to ignore them and wait for
responses from the caring, compassionate eye doctors who
DO also participate in this site.
Dan Abel - 17 Sep 2007 20:55 GMT
> I feeling I'm trying to put a shrunken bed sheet onto a mattress.
> Once I fit one corner, I find another corner has come loose.

The best advice I have heard from doctors is not to get old.  When you
get old, then things stop working.  I saw a doctor (eye doctor) last
Friday.  I complained.  He just shrugged his shoulders.  He could treat
my symptoms.  He didn't know how to keep me from getting old.
Zetsu - 17 Sep 2007 21:07 GMT
Hi,

> I complained.  He just shrugged his shoulders.  He could treat
>my symptoms.  He didn't know how to keep me from getting old.

The best your doctor can do for you is to shrug his shoulders?
So the best he can do is to treat your symtoms.
Very impressive work, isnt it?

You are all so blind, I sometimes find it hard to believe.

GETTING OLD IS NOT THE PROBLEM!

You can live to a 100 years and still see fine, at the near point.
Proper use of the eyes, will cure.
Practice reading photographically reduced type.

Amazing things will unfold.
FourEyes - 14 Sep 2007 22:18 GMT
Follow up... i brought up the prismatic imbalance when reading issue
with the surgeon via email and he said that he could "match the
reading ADD" so that she would have "minimal post-op adjustment."  i
don't know what that means but it sounds reassuring.

> >Armed with the helpful ideas here, I emailed the surgeon and he wrote
> >back this morning saying he could do -4.50, instead of -4.0 for margin
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> "Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
>   - Richard Feynman
Robert Martellaro - 16 Sep 2007 20:39 GMT
>Follow up... i brought up the prismatic imbalance when reading issue
>with the surgeon via email and he said that he could "match the
>reading ADD" so that she would have "minimal post-op adjustment."  i
>don't know what that means but it sounds reassuring.

The Add for reading has no impact on vertical imbalance.  

Again, if your goal is minimal post-op adjustment, and in most cases it should
be, then it would be best to keep the Rx for both eyes similar.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
FourEyes - 20 Sep 2007 18:22 GMT
> The Add for reading has no impact on vertical imbalance.
>
> Again, if your goal is minimal post-op adjustment, and in most cases it should
> be, then it would be best to keep the Rx for both eyes similar.

i think Robert's matching is the most safest choice to make.  in the
end, we're human and swayed by wanting to "improve" things.  the
ophthalmologist didn't seem to think the adjustment would be a big
deal and i didn't hear any complaints about reading from Ms Brainy, so
i went with that.  of course, your mileage may vary.  it was a tough
call, especially since i respect the dispensing experience of a good
optometrist and since i was making the choice for someone else. we
went with -4.50 diopters, the 2 diopter gap.  i figured if i made a
really bad call, we could fix the fellow eye to match later.
apparently the surgery went well.  we'll see the product in a few
weeks after she gets an Rx and glasses.  thanks again for everyone's
input.

> >Follow up... i brought up the prismatic imbalance when reading issue
> >with the surgeon via email and he said that he could "match the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> "Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
> - Richard Feynman
Robert Martellaro - 21 Sep 2007 17:46 GMT
>i think Robert's matching is the most safest choice to make.  in the
>end, we're human and swayed by wanting to "improve" things.  the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>weeks after she gets an Rx and glasses.  thanks again for everyone's
>input.

One of many things I've learned from my older clients is their bias towards
function over fashion, minimal complications, and getting it right the first
time. Younger people tend to have different priorities and take more risks ie,
cosmetic surgery, temporary benefits from monovision, etc.

It's good that your mom had an uncomplicated surgery. Her decision to go with
the -4.50 target is probably the best choice; when she has surgery on the other
eye, her glasses, with all things being equal, will have slightly thinner and
lightweight lenses. She will also be able to read with more comfort after
removing the glasses, if she so desires.

There probably won't be any issues with the near vision if they hit the target
spot on, or miss high, and is somewhat dependant on the type of multifocal she
wears, how she uses her eyes, and differences in individual sensitivities. If
they miss low, then you'll really want to watch for fatigue symptoms after
prolonged close tasks, which can be easily remedied by using reading glasses
with the vertical optical centers adjusted to eliminated vertical prism
imbalance, and if wearing segmented (with lines) multifocals, by using a
slab-off design.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
David Robins, MD - 16 Sep 2007 05:48 GMT
I encounter this situation no uncommonly.

Firstly, most myopes I have encountered do not like being plano afterwards,
unless they are sports types who really want plano outdoors. Most are better
off being slightly myopic, in the -0.75 to -1.00 range, so indoors, without
glasses, they can function pretty well. Plano, around the house and kitchen,
is still blurry for the typical indoors distances. This would still give a
large anisometropia if the other eye is -6D.

Secondly, if the other eye is rather clear, I would first try to find out if
they can wear a contact lens. This is done in the non-operative eye, so it
can be made about the same power as the operated eye, allowing one to use
equal glasses. That is, if I plan to make the operated eye -1D, I would use
a -5D in the other eye, leaving about -1D for each eyeglass lens. This does
take time, and has to be done in advance of surgery, of course.

If a contact cannot be used, and the other eye is a long way off from
surgery, I would then recommend making the operated eye no more than 2D from
the unoperated eye, aiming for -4 or -4.50, as mentioned in a later post. I
would encourage not doing this, if the contact can be used, so I often do
take the long road of trying a contact, unless the pt really does not want
to try, or if they have experienced conacts before, and failed.


David Robins, MD
Board certified Ophthalmologist
Pediatric ophthalmology and adult strabismus subspecialty

On 9/13/07 1:10 PM, in article
1189714253.734339.208780@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, "FourEyes"
<minger@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi, my mother, in her 60s, is scheduled for cataract surgery on
> monday.  a longstanding issue is whether to have her one cataract eye
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> turns up less than handful of mentions of this issue and no
> meainingful discussion at all. thanks.
Dan Abel - 17 Sep 2007 21:33 GMT
> I encounter this situation no uncommonly.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> glasses, they can function pretty well. Plano, around the house and kitchen,
> is still blurry for the typical indoors distances.

I defer to your greater experience and knowledge, along with other
doctors here.  Still, I will add my one datapoint as a patient with no
professional eye experience.  I wanted plano and I got it.  I have no
regrets.  I'm not a sports type (too many vision problems).  I spend a
lot of time outdoors and value clear distance vision.  Glasses are a
problem outside, they fog up and get water drops on them.  Glasses
indoors don't have this problem.  They get dirty, but are easily washed.  
I get around just fine indoors.  I can see the floor and the toilet.  I
can find my water glass.  I generally wear OTC reading glasses to eat.  
I can do without them, but I would rather see what I am eating instead
of guessing.  I need reading glasses to use the computer or read.  I'm
OK with that.  I needed them before the surgery due to presbyopia.  

To be honest, I've always been a glasses switcher.  When I first
developed presbyopia, I had two pairs of glasses, and switched them as
necessary.  I understand that others have different preferences, and
that should be respected.
Robert Martellaro - 18 Sep 2007 00:28 GMT
>> I encounter this situation no uncommonly.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>doctors here.  Still, I will add my one datapoint as a patient with no
>professional eye experience.  I wanted plano and I got it.  

Dan,

Are you sure your Rx is plano? A couple weeks ago I filled a post-op cataract Rx
that said plano sphere distance. I'm thinking- nailed it did you, both eyes too!
Right. Probably had the patient read 6/6 line, didn't refract, and said it was
perfect. Interestingly, the Add was +2.00, and that was because that's what she
was wearing (OTC) when examined. Adding +.50D to the OTC readers significantly
cleared the near at 14" and that's what I used. I couldn't touch the distance Rx
(or no Rx) but I did tell the Pt. to get a full refraction next time.

My point being that odds are you probably have a minus component in your
refraction, otherwise you would probably be uncomfortable at typical room
distances (your pre-op Rx was in the minus teens right?). Many pseudophakes have
a post-op Rx sweet spot in the -.50 to -1.00 range (and the reason you don't aim
for plano is that if you miss, and end up +.50 or +1.00, then all distances are
blurry!), are generally able to drive daytime without corrective eyewear, and
see well (certainly better than plano) at three to ten feet. That covers a lot
of territory, and is the reason that low minus can be an attractive post-op
refraction.

However, being a -4.00ish myope, an avid reader, an optician always looking at
small print, and a musician trying to read faded charts (was that a sixteenth
rest?), I'll be keeping the same Rx (maybe lose the diopter of cyl) and continue
to take off my glasses for close tasks. Different strokes...

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
Dan Abel - 18 Sep 2007 18:40 GMT
> >> I encounter this situation no uncommonly.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Are you sure your Rx is plano?

It was many years ago.  I have had many full refractions since then,
with different ODs.

> My point being that odds are you probably have a minus component in your
> refraction, otherwise you would probably be uncomfortable at typical room
> distances (your pre-op Rx was in the minus teens right?).

I was -12 and -10.  I'm not uncomfortable.  There's blur, and I live
with it or wear reading glasses.

> aim
> for plano is that if you miss, and end up +.50 or +1.00, then all distances
> are
> blurry!)

Perhaps with what I know now, I would have made a different choice.  
It's too late now, and either I just got lucky, or I had good medical
people.

I'm not claiming that people should do what I did, just that I'm happy
with how it turned out.  It worked for me.
Zetsu - 18 Sep 2007 19:33 GMT
Howcome some people don't like to become plano?
I don't understand, please?
Robert Martellaro - 18 Sep 2007 20:23 GMT
>> >> I encounter this situation no uncommonly.
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>I was -12 and -10.  I'm not uncomfortable.  There's blur, and I live
>with it or wear reading glasses.

I was just currious if your post-op Rx was slightly minus. I'm always looking
for feedback from those who have been through this.
.
>> aim
>> for plano is that if you miss, and end up +.50 or +1.00, then all distances
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>It's too late now, and either I just got lucky, or I had good medical
>people.

No, you made the most logical choice, certainly the best choice for you. There
was nothing good about being that nearsighted- removing the glasses to read left
you with a 3" focal length, essentially useless.

>I'm not claiming that people should do what I did, just that I'm happy
>with how it turned out.  It worked for me.

And should work well for almost everyone who has a plus or very high minus
pre-op Rx.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
Dan Abel - 19 Sep 2007 01:14 GMT
> >> Are you sure your Rx is plano?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> I was just currious if your post-op Rx was slightly minus. I'm always looking
> for feedback from those who have been through this.

Weirdly enough, I still have the RX, dated 6/18/02:

OD PL +1.25 130 +2
OS PL +0.25 063 +2

Remarks:  PCIOL OU (whatever that means)

> >Perhaps with what I know now, I would have made a different choice.  
> >It's too late now, and either I just got lucky, or I had good medical
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> left
> you with a 3" focal length, essentially useless.

I did some self-testing.  I got a maximum of 1 1/4 inch, and a minimum
of 1 inch.  I could focus on the end of my nose, not too useful but
interesting.

It was almost impossible to even read a book.  I had to move it back and
forth for every line.
Robert Martellaro - 19 Sep 2007 23:20 GMT
>> I was just currious if your post-op Rx was slightly minus. I'm always looking
>> for feedback from those who have been through this.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Remarks:  PCIOL OU (whatever that means)

Posterior chamber intra-ocular lens.

Looks like the left eye is carrying the load. Ask the doc to trial frame the
distance Rx and see how it feels. Some folks will wear this type of Rx for
driving and TV, possibly full time, others will see little if any benefit.  

>> >Perhaps with what I know now, I would have made a different choice.  
>> >It's too late now, and either I just got lucky, or I had good medical
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>It was almost impossible to even read a book.  I had to move it back and
>forth for every line.

Field of vision with what is essentially a +12 Add is really poor. The nose gets
in the way too. :)

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
Dan Abel - 20 Sep 2007 02:23 GMT
> >> I was just currious if your post-op Rx was slightly minus. I'm always
> >> looking
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Looks like the left eye is carrying the load.

> Ask the doc to trial frame the
> distance Rx and see how it feels. Some folks will wear this type of Rx for
> driving and TV, possibly full time, others will see little if any benefit.  

I've given up for now.  I saw the OMD on Friday.  He said there is scar
tissue on the retina.
Robert Martellaro - 20 Sep 2007 16:31 GMT
>> >> I was just currious if your post-op Rx was slightly minus. I'm always
>> >> looking
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>I've given up for now.  I saw the OMD on Friday.  He said there is scar
>tissue on the retina.

I'm sorry, that's not want you want to hear when you see the eye doc. Hopefully
the scarring is not on the macula. I'm sure the doctors here will be glad to
offer information and advice.

With best wishes,

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself."
- Richard Feynman
Dan Abel - 20 Sep 2007 22:53 GMT
> >I've given up for now.  I saw the OMD on Friday.  He said there is scar
> >tissue on the retina.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> With best wishes,

Thanks for your best wishes, but if it wasn't on the macula, I guess I
wouldn't have this complaint.
 
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