>I am not supportive of the idea to continue arguing with Otis, whether
>factually, scientifically or personally. If anything, I find the
>ongoing arguments a source of entertaiment and amusement in the midst
>of my personal struggle to retain vision in light of my deteriorating
>retinal health.
The point is not so much WHY you derive pleasure from it. It's more
important THAT you derive pleasure from it ;-)
>True, somethimes I just can't resist jumping into the
>hillarious discussion due to my sarcastic tendencies and satirical
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>fraudulent in the legal sense, i.e. that he KNOWS that he is lying but
>yet does it with the intention to defraud others.
This is just another version of the point that I continually try to
make. Welcome aboard. A pleasure to have you sailing with us.
>Here is what he has written recently:
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>and NOTHING ELSE. But look how Otis distorts it with a fraudulent
>intent -- please read his masterpiece below --]
The years have blessed us with--literally--COUNTLESS examples that are
each and all equivalent to this one.
No matter who says what -- even about what tires give the best
traction to a 302cid H.O. Ford Mustang -- Otis barfs up some statement
about "box camera," "fundamental eye," "majority-opinion," "-3.00d
lens on a natural eye," "no effect," etc., etc., ... ad nauseum.
His efforts to argue are based PURELY on straw men (i.e,. NOBODY EVER
SAID what it is that he claims that they said). At some point, even
these little "logical fallacies" become the worst kind of lie -- as
you said: intent to defraud.
I thought the "Neil recommends the plus lens," and "I called Dr.
Granet's office and got nothing but an answering machine, but let me
tell you what so-and-so said," and "Oh, by the way, Don Rehm doesn't
want to talk with Neil," etc. are STUNNING examples of whatever's
going on here, and what's going on here is debatable.
It could be the most blatant irrational thinking, dishonesty, idiocy,
ignorance, zealotry, and pathological stubbornness.
It could be a degenerative neurologic/mental condition (genuinely).
It could be some combination of both.
[Much as Mike Tyner has alluded to].
But all is clearly NOT well in Otis's head. Clearly.
As I've said: sad? Maybe. Pathetic? Clearly. Nonetheless, that
DOES NOT give him license to hurt people.
>============ ======
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I can agree that ONCE YOU START WEARING AN OVER-PRESCRIBED
>MINUS LENS -- you can not get out of it.
Straw man extraordinaire.
>But Grant argues (against science and the facts) that
>YOU CAN NOT AVOID ENTRY INTO A NEGATIVE REFRACTIVE
>STATE.
Outright lie ... in two parts.
>The statements by Dr. Colgate, Mike (who cleared
>his vision from -2.75 diopters (20/200) to
>DMV normal IS TOTALLY IGNORED BY Catman Grant.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc, questionable authority, anecdotal,
unverifiable, third-hand, etc.
>Why, because of his arrogance and intellectual
>blindness towards the proven dynamic behavior
>of the fundamental eye.
Straw man AND ad hominem attack.
>I think that the person should ask his OD,
>to determine his "attitude", if a -3 diopter
>lens has an effect on the refractive STATE
>of the natural eye.
Straw man, irrelevant conclusion.
>If Catman Grant, insists that "a -3 diopter lens
>has no effect on the eye -- you had better
>find an OD who will state that, yes, the
>natural eye will change it refractive STATE
>by -2 diopters in less than six months AS
>A NATURAL PROCESS.
Straw man, irrelevant conclusion.
>The issue is the person's preception of the scientiric
>facts -- that are objectively ignored by Catman Grant.
Straw man, irrelevant conclusion.
>Draw your own conclusions -- on the basis of scientific
>fact, and not on Grants fuss and bluster.
Ad hominem attack, cherry picking.
>Otis
Unmitigated nut-job.
Scott Seidman - 03 Aug 2007 23:12 GMT
> I thought the "Neil recommends the plus lens," and "I called Dr.
> Granet's office and got nothing but an answering machine, but let me
> tell you what so-and-so said," and "Oh, by the way, Don Rehm doesn't
> want to talk with Neil," etc. are STUNNING examples of whatever's
> going on here, and what's going on here is debatable.
That was particularly weird. Dr. Granet decided to not participate in this
forum years ago-- he doesn't need a whacko calling him up now. I have no
idea what sort of Granet-based claim Otis thinks you made (other than
you're not the same person, of course, which is just off the wall nuts).

Signature
Scott
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> I am not supportive of the idea to continue arguing with Otis, whether
> factually, scientifically or personally.
I agree.
The quotes you included don't appear to be anything new, for Otis. We
know that he takes things out of context and uses them on his own
forum. He is getting a lot of his material from s.m.v.--- from his
exchanges with the members here. We are providing the material because
for some, it is hard to resist replying to him.
But remember, we all tend to take information out of context and then
use it to prove our own deeply held beliefs.
If you or anyone else here truly believes he is criminally fraudulent,
you need to take legal action. In the meantime, s.m.v. members can
quit feeding him the raw ingredients.
Sorry to hear of your vision/ retina troubles. I haven't been keeping
up with your posts, and I had thought you were doing better after the
operation. I hope things get better for you soon.
C66
Neil Brooks - 04 Aug 2007 01:29 GMT
>The quotes you included don't appear to be anything new, for Otis. We
>know that he takes things out of context and uses them on his own
>forum.
She's/we're citing examples of much, much more than that.
>He is getting a lot of his material from s.m.v.--- from his
>exchanges with the members here. We are providing the material because
>for some, it is hard to resist replying to him.
No. He could lurk, never be involved in an exchange at all, and then
STILL take others comments, misquote them, and then incorrectly build
a "case" around them on his site.
It does NOT require engaging him. It only requires that the forum
exist at all.
>But remember, we all tend to take information out of context and then
>use it to prove our own deeply held beliefs.
And some believe that we're all born sinners. I tend to reject that
overly simplistic notion, too.