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Medical Forum / General / Vision / August 2007

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Fraudulent Intent

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Ms.Brainy - 03 Aug 2007 22:15 GMT
I am not supportive of the idea to continue arguing with Otis, whether
factually, scientifically or personally.  If anything, I find the
ongoing arguments a source of entertaiment and amusement in the midst
of my personal struggle to retain vision in light of my deteriorating
retinal health.  True, somethimes I just can't resist jumping into the
hillarious discussion due to my sarcastic tendencies and satirical
natural talents [even Quasimodo had to admit that I am funny :-) ],
but otherwise I find the whole argument with an unimportant ignoramo
totally senseless...

But what I have read today from Otis is different.  Assuming that he
is not severely retarded and not yet suffering from a complete
dimentia, there is no escape from the conclusion that he is criminally
fraudulent in the legal sense, i.e. that he KNOWS that he is lying but
yet does it with the intention to defraud others.

Here is what he has written recently:

To: Myopiafree2@yahoogroups.com
From: "Otis S. Brown" <otisbrown@pa.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 03:01:50 -0000
Subject: [Myopiafree2] A clear statement of the majority-opinion.

Remarks by majority-opinion Dr. "Catman" Grant,
that PREVENTING a negative refractive STATE
is IMPOSSIBLE.

Layman> ...into the state of the art and what works. I also like to
see some researchers post here. I'd like to see what innovative
research is...

Grant> You came to the wrong place sweety. Researchers wouldn't
waste their time with your crap. You want some answers, but you ain't
got the guts to listen or read them.

Grant> There is no prevention. How stupid are you? Shall I repeat,
THERE IS NO SOLUTION ... NO PREVENTION.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[If you recall, this conversation was re a "laymen's question" about
possible prevention of PVD (posterior vitreous detachment).  Grant's
response, though impatient and somewhat rude, related to that question
and NOTHING ELSE.  But look how Otis distorts it with a fraudulent
intent -- please read his masterpiece below --]

============ ======

i.e., you can not avoid entry into a negative refractive
STATE for the natural eye!!!!

I can agree that ONCE YOU START WEARING AN OVER-PRESCRIBED
MINUS LENS -- you can not get out of it.

But Grant argues (against science and the facts) that
YOU CAN NOT AVOID ENTRY INTO A NEGATIVE REFRACTIVE
STATE.

The statements by Dr. Colgate, Mike (who cleared
his vision from -2.75 diopters (20/200) to
DMV normal IS TOTALLY IGNORED BY Catman Grant.

Why, because of his arrogance and intellectual
blindness towards the proven dynamic behavior
of the fundamental eye.

I think that the person should ask his OD,
to determine his "attitude", if a -3 diopter
lens has an effect on the refractive STATE
of the natural eye.

If Catman Grant, insists that "a -3 diopter lens
has no effect on the eye -- you had better
find an OD who will state that, yes, the
natural eye will change it refractive STATE
by -2 diopters in less than six months AS
A NATURAL PROCESS.

The issue is the person's preception of the scientiric
facts -- that are objectively ignored by Catman Grant.

Draw your own conclusions -- on the basis of scientific
fact, and not on Grants fuss and bluster.

Otis
Neil Brooks - 03 Aug 2007 22:40 GMT
>I am not supportive of the idea to continue arguing with Otis, whether
>factually, scientifically or personally.  If anything, I find the
>ongoing arguments a source of entertaiment and amusement in the midst
>of my personal struggle to retain vision in light of my deteriorating
>retinal health.  

The point is not so much WHY you derive pleasure from it.  It's more
important THAT you derive pleasure from it ;-)

>True, somethimes I just can't resist jumping into the
>hillarious discussion due to my sarcastic tendencies and satirical
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>fraudulent in the legal sense, i.e. that he KNOWS that he is lying but
>yet does it with the intention to defraud others.

This is just another version of the point that I continually try to
make.  Welcome aboard.  A pleasure to have you sailing with us.

>Here is what he has written recently:
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>and NOTHING ELSE.  But look how Otis distorts it with a fraudulent
>intent -- please read his masterpiece below --]

The years have blessed us with--literally--COUNTLESS examples that are
each and all equivalent to this one.  

No matter who says what -- even about what tires give the best
traction to a 302cid H.O. Ford Mustang -- Otis barfs up some statement
about "box camera," "fundamental eye," "majority-opinion," "-3.00d
lens on a natural eye," "no effect," etc., etc., ... ad nauseum.

His efforts to argue are based PURELY on straw men (i.e,. NOBODY EVER
SAID what it is that he claims that they said).  At some point, even
these little "logical fallacies" become the worst kind of lie -- as
you said: intent to defraud.

I thought the "Neil recommends the plus lens," and "I called Dr.
Granet's office and got nothing but an answering machine, but let me
tell you what so-and-so said," and "Oh, by the way, Don Rehm doesn't
want to talk with Neil," etc. are STUNNING examples of whatever's
going on here, and what's going on here is debatable.

It could be the most blatant irrational thinking, dishonesty, idiocy,
ignorance, zealotry, and pathological stubbornness.

It could be a degenerative neurologic/mental condition (genuinely).

It could be some combination of both.

[Much as Mike Tyner has alluded to].

But all is clearly NOT well in Otis's head.  Clearly.

As I've said: sad?  Maybe.  Pathetic?  Clearly.  Nonetheless, that
DOES NOT give him license to hurt people.

>============ ======
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I can agree that ONCE YOU START WEARING AN OVER-PRESCRIBED
>MINUS LENS -- you can not get out of it.

Straw man extraordinaire.

>But Grant argues (against science and the facts) that
>YOU CAN NOT AVOID ENTRY INTO A NEGATIVE REFRACTIVE
>STATE.

Outright lie ... in two parts.

>The statements by Dr. Colgate, Mike (who cleared
>his vision from -2.75 diopters (20/200) to
>DMV normal IS TOTALLY IGNORED BY Catman Grant.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, questionable authority, anecdotal,
unverifiable, third-hand, etc.

>Why, because of his arrogance and intellectual
>blindness towards the proven dynamic behavior
>of the fundamental eye.

Straw man AND ad hominem attack.

>I think that the person should ask his OD,
>to determine his "attitude", if a -3 diopter
>lens has an effect on the refractive STATE
>of the natural eye.

Straw man, irrelevant conclusion.

>If Catman Grant, insists that "a -3 diopter lens
>has no effect on the eye -- you had better
>find an OD who will state that, yes, the
>natural eye will change it refractive STATE
>by -2 diopters in less than six months AS
>A NATURAL PROCESS.

Straw man, irrelevant conclusion.

>The issue is the person's preception of the scientiric
>facts -- that are objectively ignored by Catman Grant.

Straw man, irrelevant conclusion.

>Draw your own conclusions -- on the basis of scientific
>fact, and not on Grants fuss and bluster.

Ad hominem attack, cherry picking.

>Otis

Unmitigated nut-job.
Scott Seidman - 03 Aug 2007 23:12 GMT
> I thought the "Neil recommends the plus lens," and "I called Dr.
> Granet's office and got nothing but an answering machine, but let me
> tell you what so-and-so said," and "Oh, by the way, Don Rehm doesn't
> want to talk with Neil," etc. are STUNNING examples of whatever's
> going on here, and what's going on here is debatable.

That was particularly weird. Dr. Granet decided to not participate in this
forum years ago-- he doesn't need a whacko calling him up now.  I have no
idea what sort of Granet-based claim Otis thinks you made (other than
you're not the same person, of course, which is just off the wall nuts).

Signature

Scott
Reverse name to reply

callimico66@yahoo.com - 03 Aug 2007 23:27 GMT
> I am not supportive of the idea to continue arguing with Otis, whether
> factually, scientifically or personally.

I agree.

The quotes you included don't appear to be anything new, for Otis. We
know that he takes things out of context and uses them on his own
forum. He is getting a lot of his material from s.m.v.--- from his
exchanges with the members here. We are providing the material because
for some, it is hard to resist replying to him.

But remember, we all tend to take information out of context and then
use it to prove our own deeply held beliefs.

If you or anyone else here truly believes he is criminally fraudulent,
you need to take legal action. In the meantime, s.m.v. members can
quit feeding him the raw ingredients.

Sorry to hear of your vision/ retina troubles. I haven't been keeping
up with your posts, and I had thought you were doing better after the
operation. I hope things get better for you soon.

C66
Neil Brooks - 04 Aug 2007 01:29 GMT
>The quotes you included don't appear to be anything new, for Otis. We
>know that he takes things out of context and uses them on his own
>forum.

She's/we're citing examples of much, much more than that.

>He is getting a lot of his material from s.m.v.--- from his
>exchanges with the members here. We are providing the material because
>for some, it is hard to resist replying to him.

No.  He could lurk, never be involved in an exchange at all, and then
STILL take others comments, misquote them, and then incorrectly build
a "case" around them on his site.

It does NOT require engaging him.  It only requires that the forum
exist at all.

>But remember, we all tend to take information out of context and then
>use it to prove our own deeply held beliefs.

And some believe that we're all born sinners.  I tend to reject that
overly simplistic notion, too.
 
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