Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / Vision / August 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Double Vision

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Ms.Brainy - 03 Aug 2007 07:48 GMT
It happens every night.  At a certain time my eyes get tired and I
start to see double.  I instinctively close my bad eye if I want to
read, but it's not comfortable.  Distant vision seems to be less
affected.

To remind you, I have a new IOL in my bad eye and I am myopic and
presbyopic.  I am still using my old glasses while waiting for my new
glasses to be ready.  There is a disparity between my eyes, but I
don't have double vision most of the time, only late in the evening.
Why is that?
Jane - 03 Aug 2007 13:28 GMT
> It happens every night.  At a certain time my eyes get tired and I
> start to see double.  I instinctively close my bad eye if I want to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> don't have double vision most of the time, only late in the evening.
> Why is that?

Your eye muscles are most tired at the end of the day.  That's when
double vision develops/worsens for many people.  My best guess as to
etiology would be retinally-induced aniseikonia, probably secondary to
your macular pucker.  Can you detect an image size difference between
your eyes?
Jane - 03 Aug 2007 13:56 GMT
Ms. Brainy, if your double vision disappears permanently when you
start wearing your new glasses, your aniseikonia is ocular.  But if
you experience it with your new glasses, there is a probably a retinal
problem involved.  (I know a lot about from personal experience.)  In
this case, post again, and I can give you more advice/information.
Ms.Brainy - 04 Aug 2007 08:00 GMT
> > It happens every night.  At a certain time my eyes get tired and I
> > start to see double.  I instinctively close my bad eye if I want to
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> your macular pucker.  Can you detect an image size difference between
> your eyes?

As usual, thank you Jane.  Your willingness to share your experience
and knowledge are deeply appreciated.  My double vision is crawling in
again, due to the late night hour...

Whether my night double vision is ocular or retinal induced, it does
not explain the fact that it happens only as my eyes get tired late in
the day.  Or does it?

Anyway, I am not sure that it can be defined or determined as
aniseikonia (I had to google the word to find out its meaning...) and
I am looking forward to getting my new glasses next week, so I can
finally find out to what degree my vision is correctible.  At this
point I can't tell you exactly what I see in my bad bionic eye
(scleral buckle, IOL and a retinal pucker), only that it's not very
good.  In addition to impaired visual acuity, and in spite of having a
new clear lens (like yours), I see "fog" in that eye, and still wonder
if my new Rx will bring me back the famous bright intense colors.

But even now, my two-eyes combined vision is satisfactory and
acceptable, until I start seeing double...  Retinal detachment is a
serious event for the eye and almost always ends up in damage and some
loss of vision.  I also tend to think that my bad eye is the dominant
one, which is why I don't shut it off entirely.
John H. - 04 Aug 2007 08:31 GMT
Another perspective:

When we get tired there are endocrinological, immunological, and
neurological shifts occurring that can be detrimental for a lot of
functions. We don't move so smoothly, we think more slowly (possibly via
increased il-1 and decrased dopamine but it's all a bit of a guess here),
and even tnf a, via its impact on RGS4, can basicallly signal neurons to
start slowing down.

It has been estimated that up to 30% of the human brain is involved in
visual processing. Given the other types of dysfunction that occur with
fatigue, should we be surprised that it also induces visual abnormalities
which are primarily of neurologic rather than ocular origin?

> > > It happens every night.  At a certain time my eyes get tired and I
> > > start to see double.  I instinctively close my bad eye if I want to
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> loss of vision.  I also tend to think that my bad eye is the dominant
> one, which is why I don't shut it off entirely.
Jane - 04 Aug 2007 13:31 GMT
> > > It happens every night.  At a certain time my eyes get tired and I
> > > start to see double.  I instinctively close my bad eye if I want to
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ms. Brainy, you've had several problems that could cause diplopia.
Eye muscle problems can be a side effect of buckle surgery, resulting
in diplopia.  Retinal re-attachment as well as a macular pucker can
result in changes in the photoreceptor distribution in the macula,
producing retinally-induced aniseikonia and diplopia.  As I recall
from your previous posts, there's about a 2 diopter difference in
refraction between your eyes.  Perhaps this is contributing to your
double vision.  In any case, it's very common for eye alignment
problems to develop/worsen near the end of the day when your eye
muscles are tired.

I hope your new glasses will permanently correct your problems.  If
they don't, there are still a lot of options for correction depending
on the cause, including prisms in your glasses, eye muscle surgery, a
new prescription incorporating a size lens correction, cataract
surgery in your "good" eye, and vision therapy exercises.  One (or
several) of the above should work for you.
Neil Brooks - 04 Aug 2007 15:44 GMT
>Ms. Brainy, you've had several problems that could cause diplopia.
>Eye muscle problems can be a side effect of buckle surgery, resulting
>in diplopia.  

Exactly what I was thinking.

As you know, I'm often mistaken for a world-famous ocular motility
specialist....

Three major elements of breakdown of fusion (which would account for
BINOCULAR diplopia -- the kind that goes away when you close one eye)
are illness, fatigue, and intoxication.

Certainly, toward the end of the day, many of us are afflicted by at
least one of those ;-)

Jane seems to have a much, much better handle on the retinal stuff
(that may be at play here) than I -- hopefully -- ever will.

>Retinal re-attachment as well as a macular pucker can
>result in changes in the photoreceptor distribution in the macula,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>problems to develop/worsen near the end of the day when your eye
>muscles are tired.

Ms. B?  Have you had your binocular vision checked since the IOL? It's
quite a simple matter, but it would be my opinion that you may want to
have it evaluated by a strabismus ophthalmologist ... simply because
this IS their area of expertise.

If it IS a binocular issue, there are, quite likely, some awfully
simple, awfully inexpensive fixes -- perhaps as simple wearing a dash
of prism -- that might alleviate this....

>I hope your new glasses will permanently correct your problems.  If
>they don't, there are still a lot of options for correction depending
>on the cause, including prisms in your glasses, eye muscle surgery, a
>new prescription incorporating a size lens correction, cataract
>surgery in your "good" eye, and vision therapy exercises.  One (or
>several) of the above should work for you.

Bingo ... although if the underlying issue is a binocular (as opposed
to a MONOCULAR) issue, then it's really what's called a "phoria,"
rather than a "tropia."  In that case, it's far less likely that
surgery would be indicated .... I'm guessing.

Here's a quick explanation of the difference between the two:

 http://www.eyetec.net/group6/phoria_tropia.htm

THAT SAID, a quick look also revealed a known issue with cataract
surgery called "anesthetic toxicity."

http://telemedicine.orbis.org/bins/volume_page.asp?cid=1-3-4-36

This issue is a CAUSE of double vision, though I don't see whether
it's full-time or whether it could also be an end-of-day only issue.
It also LOOKS lke an issue only with INJECTED anesthesia, but ... I
just don't know whether a topical could react similarly.

In either case, the treatment options seem to be the same.  The issue
associated with anesthetic toxicity ALSO seems to be a HYPERTROPIA (or
VERTICAL diplopia), where one image is HIGHER than the other (as
opposed to being separated on a horizontal plane).

Lastly, yet another abstract says clearly that "Post-operative
[cataract surgery], binocular diplopia may occur secondary to
anisometropia or previously unrecognized misalignment." [1] It's
further bolstered by this:

[quote]
"some patients may have previously unrecognized strabismic conditions
that became manifest following visual acuity improvement, e.g.,
patients with thyroid ophthalmopathy, especially those who had
restrictive ophthalmopathy but no exophthalmos or inflammatory signs.
These patients might have been controlling a slowly developing
diplopia that became manifest following cataract surgery. Similarly,
patients with long-standing and well-compensated superior oblique
palsies may not notice diplopia prior to unilateral cataract
extraction because of poor vision in one eye. Following successful
surgery, an intermittent or constant diplopia may be noted. For
another reason, the direct surgical trauma to the extraocular muscles
and tissues by bridle sutures may be causative factor, or myotoxic
effects of administered local anesthetic agents induced the diplopia.
And causative factor may be anisometropia or aberration. A fourth
cause is that a cataract disrupted binocular vision and induced the
sensory deviation, which was the pathogenic factor of our
study."[/quote] [2]

Good luck, Ms. B!

[1] http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a714020167~db=all
[2] http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1390648
This article has some topical links at the bottom, too.
Ms.Brainy - 05 Aug 2007 01:34 GMT
It's now 5 pm and I have no hint of double vision.  But based on my
past experience I know that it will happen again later today.  And
this is the key point:  It happens later in the day/night.

My "diplopia" occurs only when I use both eyes.  If I close the bad
eye it disappears.  If I close the good eye I can't tell you what
happens because my vision is blurry and not yet properly corrected to
its max potential.  My subjective feeling is that I experience
difficulty to focus during my double vision period, and capable only
of staring out of focus.  And this is what puzzles me.

Neil, the outcome of my IOL implant is only -1D difference between my
eyes --  certainly not enough to cause diplopia.  Now, since my IOL
cannot accommodate at any time, I believe that my IOL vision is always
of the "stare" nature, i.e. focusing is not something that I can
control -- my IOL eye focuses on its own at a set point.  So why does
it become an issue when my eyes get tired?

Please remember that I have had 3 eye surgeries, of which the last cat
surgery was the easiest and lightest.  And as to the methods of
correcting the problem, it actually corrects itself every day...
Anyway, I am waiting impatiently (but hopfully) for my new glasses.
callimico66@yahoo.com - 05 Aug 2007 02:26 GMT
Ms. Brainy,

I sometimes experience a sort of double vision when my eyes are tired
(especially from working at the computer), and when one eye is doing
more "work" than the other. It feels like my eyes are "crossing". When
I look at a distant point across the room or down the street, it's
double, because I can't straighten out my focus. Sometimes I have to
cover one eye to watch TV. The problem goes away after I rest my eyes
or sleep overnight.

Hopefully your new glasses will help you use both eyes more equally
and reduce the fatigue.

Calli
Ms.Brainy - 05 Aug 2007 02:31 GMT
On Aug 4, 6:26 pm, callimic...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Ms. Brainy,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Calli

You are describing exactly what I experience, except that my double
vision is more pronounced at a shoter distance.  If this continues
with my new glasses, perhaps I can use it as a reversed alarm clock
that tells me it's bed time...
Jane - 06 Aug 2007 00:14 GMT
> On Aug 4, 6:26 pm, callimic...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> with my new glasses, perhaps I can use it as a reversed alarm clock
> that tells me it's bed time...

Ms. Brainy, closing one eye and then the other, is there a difference
in image size between your right vs. left eye?  If so, it's likely
that your diplopia has a retinal origin.  If not, then it is ocular,
probably a side effect of your buckle surgery.  If your new glasses
don't solve the problem, you should probably set up an appointment
with a strabismus specialist.
Ms.Brainy - 06 Aug 2007 00:46 GMT
> > On Aug 4, 6:26 pm, callimic...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> don't solve the problem, you should probably set up an appointment
> with a strabismus specialist.

Size difference?  I don't really know because my bad eye vision (with
the IOL) is blurry and somewhat distorted, but if there is a size
difference it's not significant.  However, if THIS was the problem,
then I would have double vision regardless of the time of the day,
don't you think?  But I don't!  Also remember, my "good" eye can still
accommodate, whereas my IOL cannot, whether it's day or night.  Thus
my right eye focus can shift, but my left eye focus is set and not
changeable regardless of how tired I am.
Jane - 06 Aug 2007 01:36 GMT
> > > On Aug 4, 6:26 pm, callimic...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

I suspect that double vision could occur toward the end of the day
regardless of the etiology.  It's curious, though, that your brain
perceives two images rather than just ignoring the blurred one.  When
did the double vision begin?  I suspect that the issue of accomodation
is not relevant to your problem.  Regardless of the cause, though, I'm
sure that you'll find a way to eliminate the problem, hopefully by
doing something simple like adding prism to your glasses if your new
prescription doesn't help.
Ms.Brainy - 07 Aug 2007 20:22 GMT
I got a call from the optician -- my glasses are ready!  They asked
the lab to re-check the Rx before shipping, and surprise!  They
switched the left and right.  So I have to wait a few more days for
them to re-do my order.

I am still puzzled as to how mistakes like this happen.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 08 Aug 2007 05:36 GMT
> I am still puzzled as to how mistakes like this happen.

human beings are running the process.
Ms.Brainy - 08 Aug 2007 07:15 GMT
On Aug 7, 9:36 pm, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:

> > I am still puzzled as to how mistakes like this happen.
>
> human beings are running the process.

Sure.  I am glad that it's only my glasses, not my eyes.  Do these
"human beings" smoke something funny in the lab?

In each of my 3 eye surgeries I insisted before being sedated that my
subject eye will be marked.  Didn't want some "human beings" to make
incisions in my wrong eye.  You never know...
()()==== - 10 Aug 2007 14:21 GMT
On Aug 8, 11:36 am, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:

> > I am still puzzled as to how mistakes like this happen.
>
> human beings are running the process.

lasik news :

(http://lasik-headline.blogspot.com )
Ms.Brainy - 16 Aug 2007 07:10 GMT
> I got a call from the optician -- my glasses are ready!  They asked
> the lab to re-check the Rx before shipping, and surprise!  They
> switched the left and right.  So I have to wait a few more days for
> them to re-do my order.

I got my new glasses today.  No double vision tonight, or so it seems
so far.  It's after 11 pm now, and in the lst few weeks I was deep
into the double by this time of every night, but not tonight!

I hope it's gone forever.  It was a miserable experience.
Jane - 16 Aug 2007 12:45 GMT
> > I got a call from the optician -- my glasses are ready!  They asked
> > the lab to re-check the Rx before shipping, and surprise!  They
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I hope it's gone forever.  It was a miserable experience.

I hope it's gone forever, too.  Keep us posted.  Best wishes.
Neil Brooks - 16 Aug 2007 15:22 GMT
>> I got a call from the optician -- my glasses are ready!  They asked
>> the lab to re-check the Rx before shipping, and surprise!  They
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>I hope it's gone forever.  It was a miserable experience.

WOO-HOO!

Double vision really ISN'T fun at all.

That's why I have such utter contempt and loathing for Otis :-)
Kakuzu - 16 Aug 2007 15:25 GMT
>That's why I have such utter contempt and loathing for Otis :-)

Or maybe you're just an idiot :-)
otisbrown@pa.net - 16 Aug 2007 16:44 GMT
Dear Kakuzu,

Item #2 is the correct answer.

Otis

On Aug 16, 6:25 am, Kakuzu <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:\

1:  > >That's why I have such utter contempt and loathing for Otis :-)

2:  > Or maybe you're just an idiot :-)
Kisame Hoshigaki - 16 Aug 2007 16:48 GMT
Neil Brooks - 16 Aug 2007 17:40 GMT
>Dear Kakuzu,
>
>Item #2 is the correct answer.

Otis?

Are you having fun lying about what Dr. Judy has and has not said?

More dishonesty ... from our friendly neighborhood pathological liar,
eh?

Nice.
otisbrown@pa.net - 16 Aug 2007 18:31 GMT
Well Neil David Brooks

What is your NEXT invention going to be?

A square knot on a suture?

Yeah, we all believe you.  Like you tell the truth?

Otis

> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:44:59 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net"
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Nice.
Neil Brooks - 16 Aug 2007 19:05 GMT
>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:44:59 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net"
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>
>> Nice.

to which Lying Sack o'Crap Otis Brown responded:

>Well Neil David Brooks
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Yeah, we all believe you.  Like you tell the truth?

Did you call David Granet?

You're a lying sack of sh.t, Otis.  I have never lied here.  You have
never told the truth.

You live in CONSTANT FEAR of trying to verify easily verifiable facts,
don't you.  Your whole world will fall apart around you.

Make the call: 858-534-2020

Let us ALL know how it goes....

Then, ask Dr. Judy whether or not YOU'RE LYING about what she did and
did not say.

[...you f.cking idiot...]
otisbrown@pa.net - 16 Aug 2007 19:26 GMT
x-no-archive:

OK, Neil, I got it:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.vision/browse_thread/thread/7b0f72d66d988140

You are upset because it was not a square knot -- it was
a SLIP knot suture.

You are also upset because your abilities were not
recognized in "Physiological Optics" -- and you
think that they should be.  So you take it out
on other posters on sci.med.vision, when
they question your "pefection".

Further, you are upset because the plus lens some
one gave to you as a small child created double vision,
and six diopters of hyperopia.

But Neil,  I never gave them to you.  Some
ophthamologist did.

Why not complain to him about your current
vision status.  After all he is responsible.

> >> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:44:59 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net"
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Neil Brooks - 16 Aug 2007 21:36 GMT
>x-no-archive:
>
>OK, Neil, I got it:

Dementia?  I'll just bet you do.

>http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.vision/browse_thread/thread/7b0f72d66d988140
>
>You are upset because it was not a square knot -- it was
>a SLIP knot suture.

I'm not upset, Uncle Otie.  I'm just tired of you being a f.cking
idiot.

That's different.

>You are also upset because your abilities were not
>recognized in "Physiological Optics" -- and you
>think that they should be.  So you take it out
>on other posters on sci.med.vision, when
>they question your "pefection".

I'm not upset, Uncle Otie.  I'm just tired of you being a f.cking
idiot.

That's different.

>Further, you are upset because the plus lens some
>one gave to you as a small child created double vision,
>and six diopters of hyperopia.

I'm not upset, Uncle Otie.  I'm just tired of you being a f.cking
idiot.

That's different.

>But Neil,  I never gave them to you.  Some
>ophthamologist did.
>
>Why not complain to him about your current
>vision status.  After all he is responsible.

Still afraid to verify the truth of the issue, aren't you, Uncle Otie?

Your very core will begin to unravel -- much as you mental status has
-- if/when you find out that I've been honest, forthcoming, and
accurate all along, while you've been deceptive, dishonest, illogical,
evasive, harmful, irrational, and incoherent.

Nice try at changing the subject again, Uncle Otie.  

Unfortunately, the REST OF US are still in possession of our
faculties, making it all to easy to watch you try to squirm your way
out.

Here's that contact info again ... in case you lost it:

Dr. David Granet - 858-543-2020

Please let us know the results of the call ... OR you COULD tell us
that you got an answering machine, BUT THEN claim to have spoken to
somebody ... yet another quandary (read: bald-faced lie) that you have
yet to explain.

You're a f.cking idiot, Otis.  The truth hurts, but ... there it is.
Ms.Brainy - 16 Aug 2007 22:10 GMT
> Nice try at changing the subject again, Uncle Otie.  

The subject of this thread is my double vision, not any of the above
few posts.  Both of you have special threads for your special
purposes, please take your continued arguments there.  Thanks.
otisbrown@pa.net - 17 Aug 2007 15:05 GMT
Dear Brainy,

If you go back through the post -- you will
find that it was Uncle Brooks who
choose to hijacked your post on double vision.
Otherwise -- I would have not responded.

Otis

> > Nice try at changing the subject again, Uncle Otie.  
>
> The subject of this thread is my double vision, not any of the above
> few posts.  Both of you have special threads for your special
> purposes, please take your continued arguments there.  Thanks.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 05 Aug 2007 16:09 GMT
> It's now 5 pm and I have no hint of double vision.  But based on my
> past experience I know that it will happen again later today.  And
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> correcting the problem, it actually corrects itself every day...
> Anyway, I am waiting impatiently (but hopfully) for my new glasses.

I believe your double vision is due to ocular causes-- that is
alignment of your eye is slightly off.  You can strain throughout the
day to keep them aligned but when you get tired at the end of the day
alignment cannot be maintained.  That is why you get diplopia at night
and also why you don't get it when you use one eye all day long.  I
don't think, as you suspect yourself , that aneisokonia is the
majority of the problem.  I think you need to get a careful binocular
evaluation looking for phorias and tropias.  perhaps a little prism
will save the day,
Ms.Brainy - 05 Aug 2007 19:26 GMT
On Aug 5, 8:09 am, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:

> > It's now 5 pm and I have no hint of double vision.  But based on my
> > past experience I know that it will happen again later today.  And
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> evaluation looking for phorias and tropias.  perhaps a little prism
> will save the day,

I start to think that it might be computer induced fatigue.  I recall
quite a few discussions here about this issue, which I never read with
much attention since I didn't think it applied to me.  Can anybody
tell me what causes computer fatigue and what are the symptoms?
Neil Brooks - 05 Aug 2007 19:32 GMT
>I start to think that it might be computer induced fatigue.  I recall
>quite a few discussions here about this issue, which I never read with
>much attention since I didn't think it applied to me.  Can anybody
>tell me what causes computer fatigue and what are the symptoms?

In my lay opinion, Ms. B., I don't think it actually matters what the
cause is (within the likely spectrum of NON-neurologic causes that are
likely to explain your situation).  

EVEN IF it were anesthesia-related, I haven't seen anything in the
literature that would indicate that this is anything other than a "get
a binocular function evaluation by a good strabismus ophthalmologist
or optometrist who's quite proficient in this area" situation.

The range of fixes ARE rather limited, particularly since you've
indicated that it IS a binocular (vs. MONOcular) issue.

Anybody see any different treatment options that would hinge on the
likely respective etiologies?

Good luck.  I know a lot about how awful double vision can be.
Especially because tiredness IS a contributing factor, and--when
you're tired--seeing double is even LESS fun....
Neil Brooks - 05 Aug 2007 19:39 GMT
That said, here's an article that you may find interesting:

http://www.mdsupport.org/library/cvs.html

It gives workstation/ergonomic direction on how to minimize the
effects of "CVS."

I would still think -- based on your history and the information
you've given -- that a thorough binocular function evaluation would be
important to elicit any underlying alignment issues that could be
CAUSING or EXACERBATING this issue.

I've always been an advocate of good visual hygiene, though, so I
think there's no downside in implementing some of the suggestions in
the cited article.

Neil
Ms.Brainy - 05 Aug 2007 21:52 GMT
> I've always been an advocate of good visual hygiene, though, so I
> think there's no downside in implementing some of the suggestions in
> the cited article.

Speaking about eye and visual hygene (whatever it means), I have read
your emphasis on lubrication, i.e. using artificial tears.  Whenever I
reported to my various eye doctors about eye irritation, they always
said -- "use tear drops".  Like you, they added "with no
preservatives", however the samples that they gave me were always WITH
preservatives.  I checked the drugstores, and it's really hard, or
almost impossible, to find "no preservatives" tears.

Since there is a recognition of the harm preservatives may cause to
the eye, why are they used so broadly?
Neil Brooks - 05 Aug 2007 22:30 GMT
>> I've always been an advocate of good visual hygiene, though, so I
>> think there's no downside in implementing some of the suggestions in
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Since there is a recognition of the harm preservatives may cause to
>the eye, why are they used so broadly?

I'd have to say it's a purely business issue.  For now, they have FDA
approval on their side, and preservatives ARE relatively inexpensive
and DO kill bugs that could otherwise cause infection.

But there's a basic flaw in the premise.

Most of these preservatives REQUIRE a normal tear film to achiveve
"safe" dilution levels.  Many people using drops are using them
PRECISELY BECAUSE they're having a tear-film issue--be it temporary or
chronic.

In that case, the undiluted preservative is clinically beginning to
damage the cornea at a cellular level.  It also increases the
permeability of the epithelium -- ITSELF a marker of dry eye.

For anti-microbials (antibiotic, antifungal, antiviral drops),
paradoxically, this can be a good thing.  If an ocular infection is
not superficial, then the increased permeability of the cornea that
these preservatives can induce actually HELPS the antimicrobial drop
to penetrate deeper.

Unfortunately, this same side effect simply EXACERBATES a dry eye
patient's dry eye condition.

Alternatives are more costly and have a few incidental downsides (some
find unit-dose packaging more difficult to open, for example).
Nonetheless, I agree with my friend: "Preserve our Eyes, not our
Drops!"

Here's more....

http://preservative.free.fr/English/indexen.htm
Dan Abel - 05 Aug 2007 22:41 GMT
> > I've always been an advocate of good visual hygiene, though, so I
> > think there's no downside in implementing some of the suggestions in
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Since there is a recognition of the harm preservatives may cause to
> the eye, why are they used so broadly?

Eyedrops without preservatives are expensive and have a very short
lifespan, once opened.  I believe they have to be discarded within 12-24
hours.  If they do go bad, they will cause more harm than good.  I used
some drops (with preservatives) that had gone bad.  My vision was
destroyed for most of a day.
lena102938 - 17 Aug 2007 17:46 GMT
>That said, here's an article that you may find interesting:
>
>http://www.mdsupport.org/library/cvs.html

Very Interesting , really
But,
Without regard to m B. wich described her vision as
>At this point I can't tell you exactly what I see in my bad bionic eye
>(scleral buckle, IOL and a retinal pucker), only that it's not very
>good.
And it looks as really complicated condition

the part of the  article is propaganda of
PROGRESSIVES
PROGRESSIVES , speeking frankly  paralize   ACCOMODATION

Lena
Neil Brooks - 17 Aug 2007 17:53 GMT
>the part of the  article is propaganda of
> PROGRESSIVES
>PROGRESSIVES , speeking frankly  paralize   ACCOMODATION

Somebody's been listening to Otis again.  That's ill-considered and
dangerous.

Cycloplegic drops may well interrupt the innervation of the nerves
that trigger ciliary contraction, causing accommodation.  I know that
Otis thinks that's "unfair," but -- for those who really DO know
anything about the eye and vision -- it's more than "fair;" it's
IMPORTANT to understand the etiology and severity of various pieces of
the patient's vision.

Just because Otis doesn't understand something -- or it disagrees with
his closely-held beliefs -- doesn't make it irrelevant OR "unfair."

Otis doesn't understand accommodative tone, ciliary hypertonicity,
accommodative insufficiency, ill-sustained accommodation,
accommodative -tropias, pseudomyopia, etc., etc.

Progressives are (widely and safely) used to decrease accommodative
demand in cases of lenticular elasticity, accommodative esophoria,
accommodative excess, etc.
Ms.Brainy - 05 Aug 2007 19:41 GMT
> >I start to think that it might be computer induced fatigue.  I recall
> >quite a few discussions here about this issue, which I never read with
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Especially because tiredness IS a contributing factor, and--when
> you're tired--seeing double is even LESS fun....

OK, if the problem doesn't go away with my new glasses, I will go see
Dr. Miller, whose specialty is identical to that of Dr. Granet.  But I
doubt this whole strabismus possibility -- it has never been my
condition.
Neil Brooks - 05 Aug 2007 21:05 GMT
>OK, if the problem doesn't go away with my new glasses, I will go see
>Dr. Miller, whose specialty is identical to that of Dr. Granet.  But I
>doubt this whole strabismus possibility -- it has never been my
>condition.

But the symptoms you describe -- by definition -- are more than likely
just that: a strabismus condition.

Even if something more complicated (hopefully not) has come up, if
it's manifestation is double vision, then a strabismus ophthalmologist
should be well-placed to give you a Dx.

Good luck!
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 08 Aug 2007 05:35 GMT
> > >I start to think that it might be computer induced fatigue.  I recall
> > >quite a few discussions here about this issue, which I never read with
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> doubt this whole strabismus possibility -- it has never been my
> condition.

i doubt you have a serious strabismus issue.  i think you have a
significant phoria that occasionally breaks-down and manifests
particularly when you are tired.  it's not uncommon really!  any
optometrist worth his/her salt can do a binocular work-up sufficient
to determine what the cause is.

concerning your computer-- are you looking straight ahead through the
distance portion of your glasses at the monitor or are you using the
bifocal region?

if your monitor is so big or set so high that you are viewing from the
top of your glasses then your eyes will indeed get tired after a short
while from trying to accommodate.  try to lower your monitor and/or
boost your chair.
Jane - 08 Aug 2007 13:37 GMT
On Aug 7, 11:35 pm, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > >I start to think that it might be computer induced fatigue.  I recall
> > > >quite a few discussions here about this issue, which I never read with
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree that the breakdown of a phoria may be involved in Ms. Brainy's
double vision.  But I think some other change resulting from her
recent eye problems and procedures is also involved (e.g., slight
muscle imbalance from the buckle surgery, minor alteration of the
photoreceptor distribution due to retinal disease).  It's been my
experience that an eye care professional who specializes in binocular
vision problems would do the best work-up.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.