RetReque.txt
Note: Retinula requested that these remarks be posted on
sci.med.vision -- for full discussion.
Re: PClar's commentary against plus-prevention.
My reply to majority-opinion Retinula.
--- In Myopiafree2@yahoogroups.com, "retinula" <retinula@...>
wrote:
Ret> Do you always fabricate discussions that never took place?
Otis> These remarks were posted on sci.med.vision, and were
PClar's response to Donald Rehm's prevention-minded
advocacy.
Ret> Does anyone else every read this forum besides you?
Otis> That is up to the readers to decide -- not me.
Ret> I had to drop by this forum just to see your latest
pathological attempt to built a little fantasy world around
you where you are always right and everyone else is wrong.
Otis> Retinula -- all you engage in is childish "name calling".
You never face facts about the dynamic nature of the
fundamental eye. You ignore all scientific facts you do not
like, and then hood-wink the public into believing that
they the minus is "perfectly safe". It is not, and science
says WHY it is not.
Otis> FURTHER, I have acknowledged the difficulty of
plus-prevention. I consider it to be like
obesity-prevention in children. In that case, the real
"control" has to do with the child, and his "habits", and
not a law of physics or science. You can never reduce
"obesity prevention" to strictly a "doctor's" action in
five minutes in an office. That you your fallacy about
these issues. For the same reason, you can not "reduce"
myopia-PREVENTION to a quick-fix in an office in five
minutes.
Ret> Why don't you offer your arguments out in the open in SMV
where others are watching instead of confabulating false
discussions that never took place in this hidden little
forum that no one ever visits?
Otis> At your request, I will post your remarks on Sci.med.vision
Otis> I will also post PClar's remarks about second-opinion Donald
Rehm's attempt to focus knowledge on these PREVENTIVE
measures.
Ret> What are you afraid of -- getting made a fool of again?
Otis> No, just the effect of PClars arrogance and ignorance on the
public, as well as PClar's desire to "execute" anyone who
disagrees with his misconceptions about the proven dynamic
behavior of the natural eye.
Otis> I always admire a man who will fight for my personal
welfare. You profoundly do not understand that concept of
science, and preventive alternatives to getting stair-case
myopia from -- first:
1. Our admittedly "bad habits", and 16 years in school, compounded
by:
2. An over-prescribed minus lens that can never solve any
problems at all -- only exacerbates the effect of item 1
on the natural eye's refractive STATE.
Otis
otisbrown@pa.net - 27 Jul 2007 14:17 GMT
This will also be posted on sci.med.vision, as Retinula
requests.
> --- In Myopiafree2@yahoogroups.com, "Otis S. Brown"
<otisbrown@> wrote:
PClrNail.txt
Dear Don Rehm,
Subject: The majority-opinion on any type of non-standard
PREVENTION.
The Japanese have a statement about people who do not
conform.
"The nail that sticks up -- gets beaten down."
But I prefer the alternative metaphor.
"A man with only a hammer (a minus lens) will see every problem
as a nail."
Tragically, that is PClar's ONLY vision of the scientific
world.
There is a better prespective that RESPECTS the natural
eye as a dynamic SYSTEM -- that it has always been.
Otis
====================
Subject: Majority-opinion PClar's commentary on Don Rehm, and all
who object to the over-prescription of minus lens -- and
the long-term effect that policy has on the refractive
STATE of the fundamental eye.
PClar> These are some of the most ludicrous and idiotic statements
I have ever read. I alternate between laughing out loud
and wondering in amazement about the depth of mental
illness that the author demonstrates:
Rehm> THE FOUNDING OF THE INTERNATIONAL MYOPIA PREVENTION
ASSOCIATION
Rehm> Since the organizations in the eye care field were telling
the public nothing about the true cause of myopia, the idea
of forming an organization devoted solely to myopia began
to seem more and more necessary.
PClar> if the cause of myopia is not known, then not telling the
public what the cause is seems reasonable to me.
[That is of course what PClar is doing. Or in other words,
forgive him -- because he knows NOT what he is doing. OSB]
Rehm> The final decision about forming a myopia prevention
organization was made at the 1974 Annual Congress of the
American Optometric Association in Washington, D. C. An
important part of such meetings takes place on a large
floor where booths can be rented to exhibit optical goods,
hand out literature, etc. I rented a booth to show the
Myopter and give out literature on the latest research on
myopia and ways of preventing it. To my amazement, the
booth was almost totally ignored by the optometrists,
although an adjoining booth, where the tinting of
eyeglasses was being demonstrated
PClar> the exhibit hall is where vendors who sell products set-up
their booths and hand out their marketing literature. it
is NOT where research information is discussed. that
happens inside the meeting rooms in the general sessions.
if some idiot was trying to demonstrate his homemade
myopia-cure gadget I bet he got a lot more than just
ignored. this Rehms guy is about the most clueless person
I've ever heard of.
[Naturally ANY discussion of plus-prevention, and the proven
effect of a -3 diopter lens on the refractive STATE of the
fundamental eye is EXCLUDED FROM THESE DISCUSSIONS.
Scientific review of the facts themselves are deemed "not
important" in majority-opinion optometry. OSB]
Rehm> In 1974, I therefore formed a nonprofit, tax-exempt
Pennsylvania corporation, the International Myopia
Prevention Association. When the formation of IMPA was
announced in various optometric journals (it was ignored by
the medical journals),
Rehm> in many aspects of vision care, ophthalmology has done a
better job than optometry. this is an example of one of
those aspects.
Rehm> I began to receive letters from optometrists around the
country expressing their interest in the new organization.
The response was greater than I had anticipated and
indicated clearly that there did exist an unfilled need for
such an organization.
PClar> of course this is not a surprise. if there was a way to
cure or prevent myopia then optometrists would certainly be
interested. unfortunately, there isn't any way that we
know of.
[That is because PClar excludes all scientific facts -- where he
does not like the implications of those facts as they
concern the dynamic nature of the fundamental eye. The
IMPLICATIONS of these self-same facts are too staggering
for PClar to accept -- so he sweeps them off the table, and
claims they "do not exist". OSB]
Rehm> 2. How myopia develops. Accommodation, ciliary muscle
spasm, vitreous pressure increase, and their role in
creating myopia are explained. Animation is used to show
how the eye permanently increases in size from excessive
accommodation.
PClar> and here is the root of the matter. this Rehm's idiot and
his colleague Otis Brown actually claim that this is the
mechanism for myopia development. they claim this even
though there is ZERO data to support it. and these people
wonder why no one embraces their theory?
[There is no doubt that plus-prevention is difficult, and take
PERSONAL judgment and resolution to use it effectively.
But PClar's "attitude" forces the person to "figure out"
plus prevention for himself. OSB]
Rehm> 3. How concave glasses damage vision. The harmful effects
of prescribing progressively stronger concave lenses, and
the serious problems such as detached retina which
frequently develop, are discussed.
PClar> hilarious-- the wretched minus. followed by a little scare
tactics. nothing works better at getting peoples attention
than to tell them they may go blind if they don't listen.
Rehm> 4. Supporting research. Various research projects
conducted over the past twenty-five years are included to
show that there is solid scientific evidence of the
environmental cause of myopia.
[I would prefer to say that the refractive STATE of the
fundamental eye will always change in a minus direction
when you place a -3 diopter lens on it -- in less than six
months. But that is science, not optometry. OSB]
PClar> really? there is no supporting research. and there is a
boat-load of research that refutes this stupid
accommodation-based model.
Rehm> 5. The importance of good reading habits. This section
explains why it is important to hold close work as far as
possible from the eyes, to look up frequently, and to use
good lighting.
PClar> of course! and its important to drink milk every day, say
please and thank you, and respect your elders too!
Rehm> 6. The use of preventive aids. The important role of
preventive aids is discussed. Such aids as reading glasses
and bifocals are shown in actual use by children.
PClar> even though there is no proof that these "aids" work. and
there is LOTS of data to show that they don't.
Otis> Fortunately, there are now optometrists who support your
right to an informed choice. See:
www.chinamyopia.org
PClar> i guess the closest optometrists who swallow any of this
bullshit is China. and even then one must be careful--
because in China if you get caught falsely claiming
something, they execute you.
Otis> And I am certain that PClar would like to execute any
second-opinion OD who would offer you a discussion of
plus-prevention.
Otis> If you wonder about majority-opinion arrogance, and
ignorance -- then you heard it from PClar.
Just one man's opinion.
Otis
On Jul 27, 9:13 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> RetReque.txt
>
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Otis
Mike Tyner - 27 Jul 2007 19:36 GMT
> all you engage in is childish "name calling".
> You never face facts about the dynamic nature of the
> fundamental eye. You ignore all scientific facts you do not
> like, and then hood-wink the public into believing that
> they the minus is "perfectly safe". It is not, and science
> says WHY it is not.
Parssinen put glasses on one group of myopes and made another group leave
them off.
Which group got myopic faster?
So, are you lying or are you just stubbornly holding on to disproven
notions?
Which is it? You never answer.
-MT
Ms.Brainy - 27 Jul 2007 19:48 GMT
> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> -MT
Mike, if he ever quit stubbornly holding on to his disproven claims,
or otherwise stop lying, distorting and ignoring facts, what would he
then do with the rest of his life???
Please be understanding and don't push and force him into a
meaningless existence. Have some compassion in your heart!
And yes, right now his continued effort to spread his false ideas is
beneficial, at least to me. I keep laughing and laughing reading his
funny stuff, and it's good for my health generally and my vision
particularly.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 28 Jul 2007 03:56 GMT
you are a sick old man. you fabricate a dialogue that never took
place by cutting and pasting (and liberally paraphrasing) statements
that you have taken out of context. This "conversation" never took
place between me and Don Rehm.
> Ret> Does anyone else every read this forum besides you?
>
> Otis> That is up to the readers to decide -- not me.
the real answer is NO. just go by the forum and >95% of the posts are
from Otis himself. he even replies to his own posts.
> Ret> I had to drop by this forum just to see your latest
> pathological attempt to built a little fantasy world around
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> they the minus is "perfectly safe". It is not, and science
> says WHY it is not.
there is ZERO science that shows what you claim is true. and I mean
in humans, not in monkeys or chickens.
however there is volumes of data on humans that show where over-
correcting with excessive minus DOES NOT induce staircase myopia,
while undercorrection actually seems to stimulate myopiagenetsis.
Plus lenses have been statistically proven to not work, as has bifocal
contact lenses. Otis, you simply conveniently overlook any studies
that contradict you. And since you are well aware of them, its better
called LYING.
> Ret> What are you afraid of -- getting made a fool of again?
>
> Otis> No, just the effect of PClars arrogance and ignorance on the
> public, as well as PClar's desire to "execute" anyone who
> disagrees with his misconceptions about the proven dynamic
> behavior of the natural eye.
actually Otis, you execute yourself. no need for me to consider doing
it. do you think that ANYBODY believes what you say? you are the
laughing stock of this NG.
> 2. An over-prescribed minus lens that can never solve any
> problems at all -- only exacerbates the effect of item 1
> on the natural eye's refractive STATE.
I wonder why Goss et al's study with overminused children shows they
DO NOT develop accelerated myopia. Guess that staircase thing is just
bullshit.