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Medical Forum / General / Vision / July 2007

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The ultimate hypocrite ... at it again

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Neil Brooks - 08 Jul 2007 16:48 GMT
From Otis's personal soapbox -- it is fun to watch the mental squirrel
run away with acorns, talking ABOUT people, rather than TO them:

[QUOTE]
A mother's child received a prescription at -10 diopters.

When the mother checked the child's vision it was
20/20 THROUGH a -6 diopter lens.

Here is a discussion of that issue by
Brainy (layman) amd majority-opinion PClar
for your interest:

Brainy> I haven't read the mother-and-child story (don't have time to
examine
all the anecdotal fairy tales), but the question is: Can an over-
prescription provide higher acuity? Mt logic suggests that if the
answer is "yes", then it's not over-prescription. My experience is
that over-rx provides lesser acuity, not better, and the OD will not
prescribe it. Without knowing the details of the case, I would doubt
the credibility of the mother's claim.

Statement by PClar:

you are basically correct with regard to the effects of
overprescription in patients middle-aged or older ( approx. >45).
excessive minus lens power usually results in reduced acuity along
with eye strain, headaches, and possible double vision.

in younger patients however, excessive minus lens power can still
result in good acuity although patients still will sometimes complain
of headaches, eyestrain, diplopia, etc. Furthermore, young people
who
are overminused sometimes actually prefer their vision this way
because the combination of excessive minus lens power, along with
excessive plus lens power which is reflexly added by accommodation
within the eye in order to maintain good acuity, gives their visual
world a darker, higher-contrast appearance. "young people" refers to
those less than ~40 years of age who can still recruit some
accommodation to help them see clearly through excessive minus lens
power.

and you are right also about eye doctors being careful not to
overminus their patients. Otis simple-mindedly believes that eye
doctors just crank up the minus lens power on patients excessively.
In practice, minus lenses are used primarily in nearsighted patients
whose retinal image is not clear because either their eyeball is
slightly too long, or their corneal curvature is too steep. Just
enough minus lens power is given so that the patient can see clearly.

interestingly, studies have shown that when excessive minus lens
power
is used in humans, it DOES NOT stimulate further development of
myopia
as Otis continually claims it does. he knows about these studies yet
he will not comment on them and they do not cause him to question his
own beliefs whatsoever as they would a truly rational person. Otis
is
truly an objective thinker, huh? he makes up his mind and then just
ignors facts that contradict them.

I have provided the citations and abstracts for those studies below.
The studies were undertaken to see if overprescribing minus lenses
would be beneficial in the treatment of other disorders aside from
investigating whether they induce staircase myopia as Otis claims,
yet
the data is still relevant and bears directly upon the claims of Otis
Brown, Engineer. If Otis were a real man he would comment, but he
won't!

--------------

Goss, D. (1984) Overcorrection as a means of slowing myopic
progression.
Am J Optom Physiol Opt., Feb;61(2):85-93.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?
cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&...

Thirty-six subjects (18 males and 18 females) ranging in ages from
7.38 to 15.82 years received an overcorrection of 0.75 D over the
power required to correct their myopia exactly. These 36 experimental
subjects were matched by control subjects selected at random from the
files of the Indiana University Optometry Clinics. The criteria used
in matching were sex, beginning age, beginning refractive error, and
duration of time covered by the record. The mean rate of change of
refractive error for the experimental group was (minus indicating
increase of myopia) -0.49 D/year (range, +0.37 to -1.95 D/year) on
retinoscopy and -0.52 D/year (range, +0.21 to -1.32 D/year) on
subjective refraction. The mean rate of change for the control group
was -0.47 D/year (range, +0.06 to -2.03 D/year) on retinoscopy and
-0.47 D/year (range, +0.28 to -1.72 D/year) on subjective refraction.
Rates for the experimental and control groups were not significantly
different. The results of this study do not support the hypothesis
that an overcorrected myope has a lower rate of increase of myopia
than a myope wearing a conventional spectacle correction.

==========================

Arch Ophthalmol. 1999 May;117(5):638-42.
Does overcorrecting minus lens therapy for intermittent exotropia
cause myopia?

Kushner BJ. Pediatric Eye and Adult Strabismus Clinic, Department of
Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences, University of Wisconsin, Madison,
USA. bkushner@...

http://archopht.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/117/5/638

RESULTS: At the time of initial examination, the mean (+/-SD)
refractive error was 0.00 +/- 1.40 diopters (D) in the control
group, 0.00 +/- 1.50 D in the study group, and -0.10 +/- 1.50 D in
the 5-year study group, all of which were essentially identical.
Five years after initial examination, the mean change in refractive
error was -1.40 +/- 2.80 D in the control group, -1.52 +/- 1.80 D in
the 6-month treatment group, and -1.54 +/- 1.80 D in the 5-year
treatment group. These differences in the change in refractive error
(myopic shift) were not statistically significant (t test), and the
differences are clinically unimportant. CONCLUSION: Overcorrecting
minus lens therapy for intermittent exotropia does not appear to
cause myopia.

====================

These majority-opinion studies simply can not
be trusted.

>>> You mean, of course, because the outcome of the experiment disproves your theory??

The real test is to simply take a population of
fundamental eyes, place a -3 diopter lens on
1/2 of them and watch the -3 diopter
group go DOWN by -2 diopters in less
that six months.

>>> So you--who claims to be (in some way) "scientific" prefer a theoretical extrapolation
>>> of a study that a) involves monkeys, not humans, b) involves monkeys with 20/20 vision
>>> (who do not NEED corrective lenses), c) involves SEWING A LENS ONTO the monkey's eyes
>>> YOU choose to take your cues from THAT, rather than actual, valid human trials that
>>> test the ACTUAL hypothesis in question?

>>> You're an idiot (Sorry.  I tried).

THAT is a scientific study, wich PClar will
avoid confronting.

>>> Thanks for reminding me:
>>> You're the worlds worst hypocritcal idiot, at that.
otisbrown@pa.net - 08 Jul 2007 20:00 GMT
x-no-archive:

Gee Wiz, Neil DBG Brooks, that is probably the same opinion that David
Granet has on the subject.

> From Otis's personal soapbox -- it is fun to watch the mental squirrel
> run away with acorns, talking ABOUT people, rather than TO them:
[quoted text clipped - 145 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Neil Brooks - 08 Jul 2007 21:44 GMT
>Gee Wiz, Neil DBG Brooks,

It's just Neil D Brooks.

Have they upped your meds?

If not, they should.

> that is probably the same opinion that David
>Granet has on the subject.

Well ... golly gee willickers, Uncle Otie.  I really wouldn't
know--what with he and I being two different people and all....

Why don't you unhand yourself and call him?  

Heaven forbid you should do a little independent investigation to
determine the facts of an issue, rather than zealously maintain those
opinions that have NO basis in fact.
otisbrown@pa.net - 10 Jul 2007 04:04 GMT
x-no-archive

Dear Neil David Brooks,

Subject:  Why post remarks from "MyopiaFree" on
sci.med.vision.

Since you HATE the second-opinion concept that
a negative refractive STATE of the fundamental eye
CAN BE PREVENTED, I can see no reason
why you would copy remarks to sci.med.vision.

No one is asking you to use a plus for prevention.

That must be a matter of "informed choice" of the
parent & child who is concerned with keeping
the child's refractive STATE positive during
the school years, when otherwise, the
child's refractive STATE will move DOWN at
-1/2 diopter per year.

Otis

> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:00:48 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net"
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> determine the facts of an issue, rather than zealously maintain those
> opinions that have NO basis in fact.
Mike Tyner - 10 Jul 2007 04:34 GMT
> the school years, when otherwise, the
> child's refractive STATE will move DOWN at
> -1/2 diopter per year.

70-80% of them don't. You must have heard wrong.

-MT
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 10 Jul 2007 12:09 GMT
On Jul 9, 11:04 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> x-no-archive
>
> Dear Neil David Brooks,
>
> Subject:  Why post remarks from "MyopiaFree" on
> sci.med.vision.

are the responses to my questions to you posted on some other bulletin
board Otis?
if you respond, then it must be somewhere else because I haven't seen
anything here.
Please tell me where you answer my questions so I can come and read
your responses.  Don't you think its appropriate to "look someone in
the eye" when you address them or are you afraid that your gross error
and inaccuracies would be readily called-out on SMV.
really Otis, my tolerance for bull$hit is low.
Neil Brooks - 10 Jul 2007 17:56 GMT
>Dear Neil David Brooks,

Yes, Otis "Pathologically Ill" Brown?

>Subject:  Why post remarks from "MyopiaFree" on
>sci.med.vision.

I think people have a right to know what you're saying "behind their
backs."

You don't have the stones to directly answer people here.  Rather, you
post them on your one-man talk show site, and THEN comment.

That's dishonest ... but I expect no less from you.

>Since you HATE the second-opinion concept that
>a negative refractive STATE of the fundamental eye
>CAN BE PREVENTED,

How's your straw man argument working for you?

How about answering these questions, Uncle Otie?  Why not engage in
what I ACTUALLY AM trying to discuss, rather than argue against things
that I have never said??

 www.nbeener.com/NDB_OSB_Qs.txt

> I can see no reason
>why you would copy remarks to sci.med.vision.

And now I've explained it to you.

Of course, facts have never moved your zealotry before, so I have very
realistic expectations, at best.

>No one is asking you to use a plus for prevention.

Including your myopic niece, Joy, in fact.

Go away, Otis.
 
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