>X-No-Archive:
>
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>
> If you wish to not believe them, then don't.
I guess ... if there WERE no figures ... then it might be difficult to
believe them.
That makes sense.
> But I believe them because six INDEPENDENT studies showed
>them.
Do you have citations for those studies? Last time it was five, and
you couldn't provide references for those. How often do new studies
... um ... come to you?
> This truly explains why plus-prevention MUST be started
>before the minus is used.
But it doesn't explain why your niece, Joy Benson, who followed your
dictate, is now a myope with a restricted driver's license.
Can you?
> If I know for CERTAIN my eyes are going DOWN if I do nothing
>about it -- then I think I would at least make and EFFORT with the
>plus.
But you say that this must start BEFORE myopia begins. The best
reason I can see for that (and ... help me out if I'm missing
something) is that .... it's not possible to determine whether--given
NO intervention whatsoever--that person would EVER have developed
myopia at all.
So ... like with your niece and nephew, you get to say that "you saved
Keith from myopia," but ... casually neglect to mention Joy's myopia.
Hmmm. There's something amiss there....
> But each person is his own "adviser" on this subject.
It seems YOU'RE gunning for that role, no?
> I just present the raw facts -- and encourage the person to
>"factor" the scientific facts into his own decision to take
>actions for PREVENTION.
Raw? Thoroughly cooked is a better description, and missing QUITE A
FEW key ingredients.
> Here they are:
> The Oakley-Young study was done with children with NO
>MOTIVATION, and NO INSTRUCTION in the use of a plus.
>
> But even so, Francis Young achieved an INDICATION that
>prevention would be possible -- against the now proven down-rate
>of -1/2 diopters per year.
Here you go, Otis. I'll save you from having to click on the link:
5. You have repeatedly claimed that the Oakley-Young study is
"proof" of this "stair-case myopia" phenomenon, but Oakley-Young only
establishes that-in some people-myopia can get worse over time. It
doesn't even CLAIM that a minus lens CAUSES this. Please explain your
position.
6. Also-at least in part, based on the Oakley-Young study-you
recommend that people use plus lenses to prevent myopia. Are you
aware that the only people in the Oakley-Young study for whom plus
lenses made ANY difference were those with diagnosed "near-point
esophoria?" This is a convergence disorder. Do you have ANY EVIDENCE
that the same result is likely with people who DO NOT HAVE this
convergence disorder?
> This indeed suggest that you avoid the minus -- unless
>absolutely necessary.
Again:
4. You continually claim that a minus lens causes something that
you call "stair-case myopia." Presuming that you mean that it does
this in humans, do you have any valid clinical evidence for this
claim?
> The issue is this. If you have the MOTIVAION for it, can you
>clear your Snellen (refractive STATE moves positive).
>
> And THAT depends exclusively on you -- and NOT on me.
And ... JOY? What about her??
> You will see statements to this effect -- but I am certain
>you do not believe them.
>
> You will be lucky to avoid going down by -1.3 diopters in a
>four year college.
Or ... perhaps it will be an issue of genetics ... or ... perhaps your
myopia will lessen.
See: http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1420&page=33
Aren't you being just a tad ... um ... disingenuous (lying) here??
Thanks.
Kakuzu - 01 Jul 2007 12:56 GMT
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:02:13 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net"
>
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>
> Thanks.
Why don't you two just shut up and stop flooding this
newsgroup.
Neil Brooks - 01 Jul 2007 16:52 GMT
>>X-No-Archive:
By the way, Otis: more questions about your constant contradictory and
inexplicable behavior:
- am I the ophthalmologist, David Granet, or am I an uninformed troll
with no medical training, background, and experience (like yourself)?
- if I'm the latter, then why would you recommend that people attempt
my notion of periocular warming? Could it be that--if people hurt
themselves--you don't care?
- like the "no archive" thing you've adopted. If I'm as harmful,
ignorant, arrogant, etc., as you've claimed, then why would you
emulate me or any form of my posting style?
- why IS Joy a myope if plus prevention is supposed to ... prevent
myopia?
- how can you claim that intervening in the case of somebody who DOES
NOT HAVE a particular condition can be shown, scientifically, to have
PREVENTED that condition? In other words, if you gave an aspirin to a
person with NO headache, and they did not GET a headache, don't you
view it as ... um ... illogical (post hoc, ergo propter hoc) to claim
that you PREVENTED a headache?
I do. I think most would.
'nother great analogy: if the average couple has, say, 2.1 children,
then would you claim that using plus lenses will prevent a childless
couple from HAVING children?
Or would you say that--in cases like this--an average is a useless and
misleading statistic designed solely to bolster a preconceived
position?