Medical Forum / General / Vision / June 2007
Strange vision problem
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DarkProtoman - 18 Jun 2007 22:27 GMT I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as such:
OS: +1.00D OD: +4.50D
Now, my OD gave my, as you would expect, a -1.00D lens for the left eye, and a -4.50D lens for my right eye. But the left eye only gets slightly better, while I can't notice anything w/ my right eye. But...when I swap the left and right lenses, my left eye becomes 20/20, and my right eye, while still far from that, gets a small improvement. How can this be? Also, when I put the new left eye lens on my right eye, and flip it backwards, aside from it needing a slight power adjustment and a weird fisheye effect, my right eye is noticebly improved. What's with this?
Thank you!!!!
otisbrown@pa.net - 19 Jun 2007 02:26 GMT Dear Dark Proto Man,
I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as such:
OS: +1.00D OD: +4.50D
Dark> Now, my OD gave my, as you would expect, a -1.00D lens for the left eye, and a -4.50D lens for my right eye.
=============
Otis> Then your OD gave you the incorrect lens for your stated refractive error.
Otis> Using the Donders theory, you should have been provided:
OS (left eye) +1 diopter lens for the +1 error. (Or no lens if you had 20/20. This would be optional, if you have 20/20.
OD (right eye) +4.5 diopters lens for the +4.5 diopter refractive ERROR. This would be a classic perscription.
Otis> Did your optometrist explain WHY he was prescribing a -1 and a -4.5 diopter lens?
Just one man's question.
Otis
> I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > such: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thank you!!!! p.clarkii@gmail.com - 21 Jun 2007 04:36 GMT On Jun 18, 9:26 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Dark Proto Man, > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > Thank you!!!! do you think that you addressed his questions? do you think that he understood what you were trying to say? why can't you just write clear sentences and organize your thoughts in a straight-forward manner so that a normal logical person can understand you?
anyway, regardless, I don't understand what you are trying to tell the original poster other than he should get an explanation from his eye doctor for why he was given this prescription. and I agree with you on that. why can't you just write it that simply?
do you have problems organizing your thoughts? have you noticed that your brain just doesn't seem to work like other people's do? maybe some medication and some counseling could help.
FKS - 19 Jun 2007 03:57 GMT > I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > such: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Now, my OD gave my, as you would expect, a -1.00D lens for the left > eye, and a -4.50D lens for my right eye. Something's wrong with the above statement.
Dan Abel - 19 Jun 2007 16:40 GMT > > I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > > such: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Something's wrong with the above statement. You just have to learn Otis-speak. Makes perfect sense to me. I doubt that it makes sense to whoever refracted him.
Dr Judy - 19 Jun 2007 17:03 GMT > I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > such: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Now, my OD gave my, as you would expect, a -1.00D lens for the left > eye, and a -4.50D lens for my right eye. That doesn't make sense, have you reversed the signs or did the supplier give you the wrong lens?
But the left eye only gets
> slightly better, while I can't notice anything w/ my right eye. > But...when I swap the left and right lenses, my left eye becomes [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > power adjustment and a weird fisheye effect, my right eye is noticebly > improved. What's with this? Reversed signs or reversed right and left? Return to the OD to have it checked out.
Dr Judy
> Thank you!!!! DarkProtoman - 19 Jun 2007 18:25 GMT > > I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > > such: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Show quoted text - No, I had the optician check my lenses as soon as I got them w/ a lensometer; he said they matched the prescription.
otisbrown@pa.net - 20 Jun 2007 04:37 GMT Dear Protoman,
Optometrist Judy is correct about this.
Otis
> > > I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > > > such: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Ms.Brainy - 20 Jun 2007 05:05 GMT On Jun 19, 8:37 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Protoman, > > Optometrist Judy is correct about this. > > Otis Dr Judy will be thrilled to read Otis' approval, I'm sure.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 21 Jun 2007 05:01 GMT On Jun 19, 11:37 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Protoman, > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > > - Show quoted text - wow, thanks Otis! now we feel much more comfortable accepting Dr. Judy's comments after you have given them your approval. after all, she is only a professionally-trained and board-certified optometrist with years of clinical experience. its good to know that you, being a retired ex-engineer (? maybe), approve of her advise.
Dr Judy - 20 Jun 2007 14:12 GMT > > > I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > > > such: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > No, I had the optician check my lenses as soon as I got them w/ a > lensometer; he said they matched the prescription.- Hide quoted text - Return to examiner and have him check the lenses as well, maybe he miswrote the prescription, maybe the optician misread, but an Rx for (+) lenses should not be filled with (-) lenses.
Dr Judy
Dr Judy
otisbrown@pa.net - 20 Jun 2007 18:39 GMT Dear Dark,
The easiest solution is this:
Call the OD, or ophthamologist and ask him if you are farsighted or myopic.
That will resolve the issue, pronto.
If the prescription is "positive", then you have plus lenses.
A positive lens will bring sun's rays of light to a point.
A +1 to a point at 1 meter. You could hold the lens in sun light and see if it forms a image of the sun at 1 meter.
If the light rays diverge (no image), then you have a negative lens.
Hope this clarifies this issue for you.
Otis
> I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > such: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thank you!!!! DarkProtoman - 20 Jun 2007 19:23 GMT > Dear Dark, > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I am myopic. I need minus lenses. My left eye is my good eye.
otisbrown@pa.net - 20 Jun 2007 21:43 GMT Pervious: I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as such:
OS: +1.00D OD: +4.50D
Otis> Then these values should be:
OS: - 1.00 Diopters (Refraction) OD: - 4.5 Diopters (Refraction).
The lens you have must be minus to clear your distant vision.
Otis
> > Dear Dark, > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > - Show quoted text - p.clarkii@gmail.com - 21 Jun 2007 05:26 GMT > > Dear Dark, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > I am myopic. I need minus lenses. My left eye is my good eye. OK, then your prescription should be written according to proper convention as:
OD: -4.50 sph OS: -1.00 sph
the right eye is listed first, and the left eye last.
technically you are correct in that your uncorrected right eye is really +4.50 with respect to proper focus, and your uncorrected left eye is +1.00, and therefore you need minus lenses of the same power to correct them, but convention holds that nearsighted people need minus power lenses and thus the prescriptions are written that way always. in the end, all prescriptions are written in terms of the power of the lenses that are required to correct them.
As for your observations, some of them can be explained and others can't. since your left eye is already pretty good without the lenses on it, so when you place a -1.00 lens over it you might not notice a big difference because it wasn't too bad to begin with.
And in younger people, if you place an excessively strong minus lens over your eye, like in your case where you put your right lens in front of your left eye, it might appear to make your vision even clearer than having the proper -1.00 correction over it. In reality your acuity shouldn't be improved-- it just makes everything look higher contrast (darker and smaller). Some people usually like their vision through an overminused prescription but if you wear it too long it will give you eyestrain and headaches. Eye doctor try to avoid overminusing their patients
What doesn't make sense is that putting the -4.50 prescription in front of your right eye doesn't provide much improvement. It certainly should unless you are amblyopic in that eye and you don't use it much anyway. Or perhaps the prescription is incorrect.
Why not visit your eye doctor and ask for an explanation for your questions?
DarkProtoman - 21 Jun 2007 05:58 GMT > > > Dear Dark, > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I AM amblyopic in my right eye; I'm myopic in both eyes. I'm seeing Dr. Leif Hertzog, my opthalmologist, on July 11th. And, I do get a huge increase in acuity; I can read stuff at longer distances than before I swapped my lenses; I can read the "no parking" sign from 15ft away now; I couldn't do that before.
otisbrown@pa.net - 21 Jun 2007 16:54 GMT Dear DarkProtoman,
It is always good to be able to double-check your prescription against the lens you are provided with.
It is also possible to reverse the OD and OS.
Dr. Leif Hertzog will be very supportive of your desire to learn how to check in this matter, and that you were able to detect a techincal problem with the prescription.
Most ophthamologists support your ability to learn about this subject.
Others (tragically) do not trust your technical ability.
Otis
> I AM amblyopic in my right eye; I'm myopic in both eyes. I'm seeing > Dr. Leif Hertzog, my opthalmologist, on July 11th. And, I do get a > huge increase in acuity; I can read stuff at longer distances than > before I swapped my lenses; I can read the "no parking" sign from 15ft > away now; I couldn't do that
> > > > Dear Dark, > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Mike Tyner - 21 Jun 2007 17:19 GMT > Others (tragically) do not trust your > technical ability. Doctor: (hands cover paddle to patient) Cover your right eye for me.
(patient covers right eye and reads the chart)
Doctor: Now cover the other eye.
Patient: (reaches up and covers left eye with his hand) Now I can't see anything!
True story.
-MT
otisbrown@pa.net - 21 Jun 2007 18:36 GMT Ah, yes.
Ho, Ho, Ho -- good optometric laugh line.
Because SOME patients are stupid, and technically inept -- you naturally ASSUME that all patients are stupid and inept. And should be treated that way.
Otis
> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -MT Mike Tyner - 21 Jun 2007 18:55 GMT > Because SOME patients are stupid, and technically > inept -- you naturally ASSUME that all > patients are stupid and inept. And should > be treated that way. When you decide who I am, what I do and how I do it, please let me know.
Some newsgroup participants are stupid and inept. Does that mean they all are?
-MT
Neil Brooks - 21 Jun 2007 18:57 GMT >Ah, yes. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Otis Dear Uncle (scr)Otis:
As always, your hypocrisy astounds. YOU are the king of:
- invent a position held by a (fictitious or otherwise) eye doctor;
- extrapolate from that invented position to the presumed "standard of practice" of ALL eye doctors.
Nobody else around here does that BUT YOU.
God, but you're an idiot.
Neil Brooks - 21 Jun 2007 18:58 GMT >Most ophthamologists support your ability >to learn about this subject. > >Others (tragically) do not trust your >technical ability. Gosh, Uncle Otie.
On what basis do you make THAT claim.
Just some little tidbit that you pulled from your a$$?
Par for the course, sadly.
DarkProtoman - 21 Jun 2007 19:29 GMT > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Par for the course, sadly. What this Otis Brown guy's story anyway? He needs to be crucified while getting a 10 gigacandela light shined through +100D lenses in his eyes --w/ atropine eyedrops for good measure--...
Neil Brooks - 21 Jun 2007 19:56 GMT >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >while getting a 10 gigacandela light shined through +100D lenses in >his eyes --w/ atropine eyedrops for good measure--... You're okay, DarkProtoman.
Stick around. I'll buy lunch ;-)
DarkProtoman - 21 Jun 2007 19:59 GMT > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:29:44 -0000, DarkProtoman > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thanks! BTW, I'm just wondering, but what do you mean "you're okay"?
Neil Brooks - 21 Jun 2007 20:30 GMT >> <Protoman2...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Thanks! BTW, I'm just wondering, but what do you mean "you're okay"? That was a bit ambiguous. Apologies.
I meant that--having seen through Otis's lunacy so quickly--you're clearly a rational, bright, and perceptive person.
We like that around here.
It takes more than a few of us to offset Uncle Otie's under-medicated dementia.
So ... you're okay ... you fit ;-)
DarkProtoman - 21 Jun 2007 21:52 GMT > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:59:09 -0000, DarkProtoman > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yeah, the first one of his responses to my question said I need a +1.00D lens OS; +4.50D OD. WTF?!!!!? That'd make my vision twice as worse!!!! I don't need to be tripping over my feet 24/7!!!!!
The OD DID say why he gave me minus lenses...b/c it corrects the refractive error. Unlike the "Donder's theory" Otis apparently subscribes to, which would probably get me killed w/in an hour of recieving my lenses. I'd probably walk into a bus...
Dr Judy - 22 Jun 2007 03:25 GMT > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:59:09 -0000, DarkProtoman > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > +1.00D lens OS; +4.50D OD. WTF?!!!!? That'd make my vision twice as > worse!!!! I don't need to be tripping over my feet 24/7!!!!! In Otis defense (never thought I would type that), you did state your refractive error was +1.00 and +4.50 which would be corrected with plus lense. Although I have no idea what Otis meant by " according to Donder's theory".
Dr Judy
> The OD DID say why he gave me minus lenses...b/c it corrects the > refractive error. Unlike the "Donder's theory" Otis apparently > subscribes to, which would probably get me killed w/in an hour of > recieving my lenses. I'd probably walk into a bus...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Dave Bell - 21 Jun 2007 21:28 GMT > >Most ophthamologists support your ability > >to learn about this subject. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Par for the course, sadly. Are you saying that is not true, Neil? How can you speak for all ophthalmologists, any more than Otis can?
Par for the course again, as the sad little cadre of Otis haters attack even *correct* and supportive statements, as pclarkii did earlier...
Dark Protoman, you'll just have to learn to live with the poor S/N of this group. By all means, tune out Otis' extreme and misleading views, but you'll also have to learn to ognore the whiners.
Dave
Neil Brooks - 21 Jun 2007 21:49 GMT >> >Most ophthamologists support your ability >> >to learn about this subject. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Are you saying that is not true, Neil? How can you speak for all >ophthalmologists, any more than Otis can? Gee, Dave. Maybe it has something to do with all the hours that I've spent conversing with the teaching ophthalmologists and the faculty at several of the nation's leading optometry schools ... along with the, literally, scores of MD's and OD's that I've seen in my life.
Ya' see, Ol' Davie Boy: you'll have to learn a thing or two about me:
1) I started on this forum wayyyy back when.
2) When I know something, I contribute.
3) When I don't know something, I keep my mouth shut.
4) I don't come here merely to bash eye doctors.
5) My dreams of becoming a commercial pilot weren't dashed by myopia. I DO have vision problems, but I don't pathologically blame them on some concocted story that gives me a devil to despise.
6) I follow logic, rational thinking, critical thinking, and evidence to their conclusions. Not the reverse.
7) I don't use fear-mongering like a cult-leader would. I show people erroneous logic, balls-out lies, mis-statements, evasions, and half-truths. It's called "impeaching the witness's credibility."
8) I defy you to find one place where I offered anybody any advice that caused them harm (see #3 above).
If you need/would like me to keep going, I shall. If you look beneath all of what YOU call "noise," I've generated plenty of what you call "signal" in my time.
You? You just hypocritally doing what it is you accuse ME of doing?
Got it. Thanks.
Dave Bell - 21 Jun 2007 23:28 GMT > >> >Most ophthamologists support your ability > >> >to learn about this subject. > >> > > >> >Others (tragically) do not trust your > >> >technical ability.
> >Are you saying that is not true, Neil? How can you speak for all > >ophthalmologists, any more than Otis can? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ya' see, Ol' Davie Boy: you'll have to learn a thing or two about me: Bunch of answers to questons I didn't ask deleted... The statement by Otis still stands:
While most ODs support patients' abilities to learn about their condition, there are a few who do not. I would say the case of the gentleman who was "fired" by his cataract surgeon, for quesioning the choice of implant, would support that claim.
My comment, while admittedly adding to the noise, was that you jumped on Otis' correct and true statement, painting it with the same tarry brush you use when he is indeed wrong. Similarly, when he stated that Dr, Judy was correct, pclarkii had to jump in and bad-mouth him,
These are examples of what I termed "ad hominem" attacks: derogatory comments made on the basis of *who said it*, not *what he said*.
Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs...
Neil Brooks - 22 Jun 2007 01:12 GMT On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:28:53 -0700, Dave Bell
>Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... 'Cept the difference here is: you're mud-wrestling with the ones who DON'T HURT anybody.
Your choice of sides confounds me.
Dave Bell - 22 Jun 2007 01:30 GMT > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:28:53 -0700, Dave Bell > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Your choice of sides confounds me. Of course it does! That's because you won't acknowledge that your blather about Otis is serving nothing except your own ego.
Neil Brooks - 22 Jun 2007 02:05 GMT >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:28:53 -0700, Dave Bell >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Of course it does! That's because you won't acknowledge that your >blather about Otis is serving nothing except your own ego. I believe we've already covered the "Ever seen double for any substantial length of time, Dave?" question, so ... meanwhile ... either take your OWN advice and kill-file me OR ... piss off.
If you think it's about my ego, then--again--you haven't been stuck with double vision (Yes, Dan, I know YOU have).
If you think preying on adolescents (those on "the threshold") is cool, then YOU (Mr. I Adopt Former Soviet Block Children) and I have different views about kids, and about society's need to protect them from predators--older men who, themselves, are at a (very different) "threshold."
I think I'm done with you. Take care now.
Buh-bye.
Dave Bell - 22 Jun 2007 04:26 GMT >>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:28:53 -0700, Dave Bell >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If you think it's about my ego, then--again--you haven't been stuck > with double vision (Yes, Dan, I know YOU have). And how are your attacks helping your diplopia, hmm? Or anyone else's, for that matter? Are you blaming Otis for *causing* your vision problems? Are you admitting to being that gullible?
> If you think preying on adolescents (those on "the threshold") is > cool, then YOU (Mr. I Adopt Former Soviet Block Children) and I have > different views about kids, and about society's need to protect them > from predators--older men who, themselves, are at a (very different) > "threshold." Now, once again, for all to see, you're engaging in groundless innuendo that serves only to attack *me*, not my arguments!
And, Mr. Able To Follow A Munged Email Address (nearly as well as most 13-year olds, I suspect), what the f.ck do my daughters have to do with this discussion? I am supremely proud of all of them, and hold them as higher examples of citizens than whining ego-trippers like you.
Neil Brooks - 22 Jun 2007 05:53 GMT > >>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:28:53 -0700, Dave Bell > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > this discussion? I am supremely proud of all of them, and hold them as > higher examples of citizens than whining ego-trippers like you. Maybe you'd like to think about how you would feel if somebody -- to borrow your poetic talents -- f.cked with your children's vision ... or any other aspect of their health ... without you knowing it ... and caused them harm ... because they naively took advice from some Uncle Otie type when they were concerned about a medical problem.
That's called empathy, Ol' Davie Boy. It's the ability to feel what THAT parent would feel when some senile-dementia old (again: to use your word) f.ck intervened without training, soul, liability, license, or conscience.
Even if you don't think your kids are capable of that kind of naivety ... other kids are. Maybe I've just heard from one too many of them ... and give more of a (once again) f.ck about them than you.
Next time, try thinking about it as a concerned parent of one of your precious kids. Maybe you'll realize who's benevolent and who's malevolent here.
Or maybe not.
In either case: piss off, Davie Boy. You're blowing without even the PRETEXT of a good cause. Think about THAT for a while.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 24 Jun 2007 05:12 GMT > Now, once again, for all to see, you're engaging in groundless innuendo > that serves only to attack *me*, not my arguments! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > this discussion? I am supremely proud of all of them, and hold them as > higher examples of citizens than whining ego-trippers like you. oink oink oink
Dan Abel - 22 Jun 2007 02:07 GMT > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:28:53 -0700, Dave Bell > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Of course it does! That's because you won't acknowledge that your > blather about Otis is serving nothing except your own ego. Of course it does! That's because you won't acknowledge that your blather about Neil is serving nothing except your own ego.
MsBrainy - 22 Jun 2007 02:37 GMT >Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... Dave, if you don't want to mud-wrestle with pigs, then don't... it's your choice, nobody is forcing you to jump in to the puddle, so don't complain. You are doing exactly the same thing you accuse others of doing. It's just your choice of side in this never-ending debate that is puzzling...
 Signature MsBrainy
Dave Bell - 22 Jun 2007 04:18 GMT >> Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... > > Dave, if you don't want to mud-wrestle with pigs, then don't... it's your > choice, nobody is forcing you to jump in to the puddle, so don't complain. > You are doing exactly the same thing you accuse others of doing. It's just > your choice of side in this never-ending debate that is puzzling... I was indeed lecturing myself about wrestling pigs. High time I gave up. But I'm not really taking sides, you see. I'd would simply prefer to see the vacuous bitching silenced. I note that I don't see much in the way of similar attacks *from Otis*. He may be wrong, and arguably giving harmful advice, but he doesn't commonly engage in the kind of slurs the "other side" does.
Dave
Neil Brooks - 22 Jun 2007 05:55 GMT > >> Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Dave And the kindly old man in the Cadillac who lures kids in the car seems awfully nice, doesn't he.
Want your kids playing with him?
Me neither.
Piss off, Dave.
Dave Bell - 22 Jun 2007 06:02 GMT >>>> Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... >>> Dave, if you don't want to mud-wrestle with pigs, then don't... it's your [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Want your kids playing with him? Nope. I trained mine to think. But I guess i had an advantage, there...
> Me neither. > > Piss off, Dave. Same to you, sweetie...
Kisame Hoshigaki - 22 Jun 2007 11:27 GMT > > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > >> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... Thank you for being the voice of sanity and knowledge around here; Us teens are really not as stupid as *somebody* in this discussion likes to think! And we would prefer it that this certain *somebody* would not extrapolate from a small sample (a couple of stupid/gullible kids) to the entire population.
- KH
Kisame Hoshigaki - 22 Jun 2007 13:00 GMT > > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > >> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... Thank you for being the voice of sanity, intelligence, lucidity, and reason around here. We teens are really not as stupid as *somebody* in this discussion likes to think! And we would prefer it that this certain *somebody* would not extrapolate from a small sample (a couple of stupid/gullible kids) to the entire population.
- KH
Kisame Hoshigaki - 22 Jun 2007 13:03 GMT > > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > >> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... Thank you for being the voice of sanity, intelligence, lucidity, and reason around here. We teens are really not as stupid as *somebody* in this discussion likes to think!! And we would prefer it if this certain *somebody* would not extrapolate from a small sample (a couple of stupid/gullible kids) to the entire population.
- KH
Kisame Hoshigaki - 22 Jun 2007 13:09 GMT > > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > >> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... Thank you for being the voice of sanity, reason, lucidity and intelligence around here. We teens really aren't as stupid as *somebody* in this discussion likes to think! And we would prefer it if this certain *somebody* would not extrapolate from a small sample (a couple of stupid/gullible kids) to the entire population.
- KH
otisbrown@pa.net - 22 Jun 2007 16:07 GMT Dear Kisame Hoshigaki,
It will eventually be the "young" who begin to accept PREVENTIVE methods. Using a strong-minus, is like "bleeding" a person to "solve problems". Obviously the people doing the "bleeding" thought it was WONDERFUL. As far as the "adults" posting here -- consider this:
"When adults first become conscious of something new, they usually either attack it or try to escape from it... Attack includes such mild forms as ridicule, and escape includes merely putting it out of mind."
W. I. Beveridge
I have NEVER said that prevention will be easy. I just suggest that is COULD be possible, if the person has the motivation for it -- on the threshod.
Further, prevention must depend on the wisdom and judgment of the person himself. There are people here who insist that EVERYTHING MUST BE PERFECT BEFORE ANYTHING IS ATTEMPTED. Or:
Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first overcome.
Samuel Johnson
And tragically, these people who are taught a blindness, have difficulty seening ANYTHING differently. Or accurately:
Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.
Arthur Schopenhauer
Enjoy our discussions -- learning to respect science and the dynamic behavior of the natural eye.
Otis
On Jun 22, 8:09 am, Kisame Hoshigaki <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > > >> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Neil Brooks - 22 Jun 2007 16:41 GMT >Dear Kisame Hoshigaki, > >It will eventually be the "young" who begin to accept >PREVENTIVE methods. Using a strong-minus, is >like "bleeding" a person to "solve problems". But Uncle Otie:
What about all of the clinical testing that shows that undercorrection can ACCELERATE myopic progression, and that plus lenses didn't help?
What about your own myopic niece, Joy Benson, who never wore the minus and always wore the plus.
What about myopes like my wife whose Rx was stable for decades (prior to refractive surgery).
What about evidence ... rather than faith?
> "When adults first become conscious of something new, they >usually either attack it or try to escape from it... Attack >includes such mild forms as ridicule, and escape includes merely >putting it out of mind." Actually, when adults first become conscious of an irrational, dishonest idiot like Otis Brown, they soon learn that there IS NO WAY to escape it.
Eventually, they attack it, hoping to either engage it in ACTUAL DISCUSSION (which it refuses to do), or to get it to go away.
Largely because it's "merely out of its mind."
>I have NEVER said that prevention will be easy. I just >suggest that is COULD be possible, if the person >has the motivation for it -- on the threshod. So Joy Benson is merely a slacker? That's how that works?
>Further, prevention must depend on the wisdom and >judgment of the person himself. So she's a dunce with low motivation, too? Why do you hate her?
> There are people >here who insist that EVERYTHING MUST BE PERFECT >BEFORE ANYTHING IS ATTEMPTED. Or: What good is that mischaracterization going to do anybody? Why can't you help JOY's vision ... or your own ... or Steve Leung's ... or Fred Deakins's ... or anybody's, for that matter?
> Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections >must be first overcome. Actually, it would be nice if you would simply answer questions. People who seek knowledge do this all the time. Faith-based, senile zealots never do.
>And tragically, these people who are taught a blindness, >have difficulty seening ANYTHING differently. Or accurately: Pot ... kettle ... black.
>Enjoy our discussions -- learning to respect science You and science have as much a nexus as a porn star and abstinence do.
Kisame Hoshigaki - 22 Jun 2007 17:07 GMT > > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > >> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... Thank you for being the voice of sanity and intelligence around here. We teens are really not as dim-witted as *somebody* in this debate likes to think! And we would prefer it if this certain *somebody* would not extrapolate from a small sample (a couple of stupid/gullible kids) to the entire population.
- KH
DarkProtoman - 22 Jun 2007 18:33 GMT On Jun 22, 9:07 am, Kisame Hoshigaki <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > > >> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Meanwhile, over in the optometric dimension, DarkProtoman is questioning the science of optometry and it's practitioners as to their ability to keep on task...
Neil Brooks - 22 Jun 2007 18:44 GMT On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:33:21 -0000, DarkProtoman
>Meanwhile, over in the optometric dimension, DarkProtoman is >questioning the science of optometry and it's practitioners as to >their ability to keep on task... Bear in mind: you've only heard from one or two optometrists. The rest of us have our own, individual interests in the topic.
I've always found it good to disclose whether or not one is in the business. I'm not.
Many people feel that it's "buyer beware" and that any harm that befalls you for following advice gleaned over the internet is just tough luck. I consider those people to be heartless, soulless cretins.
But that's just me.
Kisame Hoshigaki - 22 Jun 2007 19:13 GMT Dear Neil Brooks,
>Many people feel that it's "buyer beware" and that any harm that >befalls you for following advice gleaned over the internet is just >tough luck. Actually, I just think that if a parent has not educated their child in such matters prior to allowing any usage of the internet, or if they are not absolutely sure that the child does not have the appropriate level of intellect nor maturity to question certain treatment therapies that may be found across the net -- then they should not have been allowed use of the internet at all.
So this is another point on which I simply cannot agree with you.
You are a nice man, and no mistaking that. But I simply disagree with your methods of "preaching" to the world about what a fagg0t Otis is and blah blah blah... Please take into consideration what me, Dave, Charles, and certain others are trying to explain -- that is that your ad-hominem attacks serve no real purpose, and is only damaging this newsgroup -- to you and the others on this forum that serve as the current composition of the 'Otis hater' cadre.
My appreciation.
-- Live simply so that others may simply live
Kisame Hoshigaki - 22 Jun 2007 19:16 GMT Dear Neil Brooks,
>Many people feel that it's "buyer beware" and that any harm that >befalls you for following advice gleaned over the internet is just >tough luck. This is another point on which I simply cannot agree with you.
Actually, I just think that if a parent has not educated their child in such matters prior to allowing any usage of the internet, or if they are not absolutely sure that the child does not have the appropriate level of intellect nor maturity to question certain treatment therapies that may be found across the net -- then they should not have been allowed use of the internet at all.
You are a nice man, and no mistaking that. But I simply disagree with your methods of "preaching" to the world about what a fagg0t Otis is and blah blah blah... Please take into consideration what me, Dave, Charles, and certain others are trying to explain -- that is that your ad-hominem attacks serve no real purpose, and is only damaging this newsgroup -- to you and the others on this forum that serve as the current composition of the 'Otis hater' cadre.
My appreciation.
-- Live simply so that others may simply live
DarkProtoman - 22 Jun 2007 21:29 GMT On Jun 22, 11:16 am, Kisame Hoshigaki <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Neil Brooks, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > -- > Live simply so that others may simply live WTF?!!!!? This is *supposed* to be about my refractive error, *not* about child internet safety!!!!!
Dr Judy - 22 Jun 2007 23:49 GMT > Meanwhile, over in the optometric dimension, DarkProtoman is > questioning the science of optometry and it's practitioners as to > their ability to keep on task Of the 50+ posts in this thread, under 10 were from optometrists and they were largely on topic.
Dr Judy
DarkProtoman - 23 Jun 2007 00:28 GMT > > Meanwhile, over in the optometric dimension, DarkProtoman is > > questioning the science of optometry and it's practitioners as to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dr Judy Really? Get the non-ODs and non-MDs off this thread.
Neil Brooks - 23 Jun 2007 00:34 GMT >> > Meanwhile, over in the optometric dimension, DarkProtoman is >> > questioning the science of optometry and it's practitioners as to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Really? Get the non-ODs and non-MDs off this thread. Well .... it sort of doesn't really work that way. It's Usenet ... where there's no holds barred.
In between all the BS, though, you have Dr. Judy, PClark, Doctor Rick, Mike Tyner, and a few others who are wise, caring, generous, knowledgeable, and helpful.
There's just some sifting to be done on the way....
DarkProtoman - 23 Jun 2007 01:06 GMT > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 23:28:42 -0000, DarkProtoman > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yeah, I know.
I like going on to alt.philosophy and asking stupid questions. I cause trouble for the soft sciences. Recently I asked them "what are the ethics of creating a werecat?" It's fun to confuse those in the soft sciences, b/c, at least in the hard sciences, like medicine, optometry, and compsci, you can perform an experiment to in/validate a proposition.
Neil Brooks - 23 Jun 2007 01:55 GMT >I like going on to alt.philosophy and asking stupid questions. I cause >trouble for the soft sciences. Recently I asked them "what are the >ethics of creating a werecat?" It's fun to confuse those in the soft >sciences, b/c, at least in the hard sciences, like medicine, >optometry, and compsci, you can perform an experiment to in/validate a >proposition. Or ... you can be Otis Brown and either perform NO experiment OR perform a crappy experiment and lie about the results ;-)
DarkProtoman - 23 Jun 2007 02:17 GMT > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:06:35 -0700, DarkProtoman > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Or ... you can be Otis Brown and either perform NO experiment OR > perform a crappy experiment and lie about the results ;-) He really does this? Like what "experiments" has he "performed" and what "data" did he "collect" and "analyze"?
Neil Brooks - 23 Jun 2007 02:31 GMT >> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:06:35 -0700, DarkProtoman >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >He really does this? Like what "experiments" has he "performed" and >what "data" did he "collect" and "analyze"? The easiest example:
He claims to have prevented myopia in his nephew, Keith, by having him wear "plus" lenses from adolescence, and avoiding the minus lens.
Keith, allegedly, is now an emmetrope (20/20 vision).
Otis tells this story constantly.
Less well known, however, is that Keither has a sister, Joy. Joy, too, wore the plus lens and eschewed the minus.
Unfortunately, Joy Benson is now myopic with a restricted driver's license.
Otis doesn't ever talk about her. She's sort of the black sheep of the family now.
So ... he takes (fallacious) credit for having saved his nephew's vision ... but won't take blame for having ruined his niece's.
Take a look at these questions. They'll give you an idea of the holes in Otis's ... um ... "logic" through which one could drive a large truck:
http;//www.nbeener.com/NDB_OSB_Qs.txt
Faced with critical thinking or logic, Otis simply cowers.
DarkProtoman - 23 Jun 2007 02:42 GMT > On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:17:39 -0700, DarkProtoman > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > - Show quoted text - ROFLMAO!!!!!!
See what I was talking about on alt.philosophy
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.philosophy/browse_thread/thread/4a3bfaaa92e 6d94d/d33494c01e24842f?hl=en
Think it could happen? What would the ethical implications be? Hopefully, the rest of humanity will view it as a rare animal to be kept as a pet rather than a monster or, even worse, free laborers.
Dave Bell - 24 Jun 2007 05:21 GMT >>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:06:35 -0700, DarkProtoman >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Faced with critical thinking or logic, Otis simply cowers. More critical thinking:
Otis' treatment of his nephew had no actual benefit - he was deluding himself, and the treatment had no effect.
*THEREFOR* his failure to benefit his niece is completely due to his non-functional treatment.
Yep, that's good logic for ya...
otisbrown@pa.net - 24 Jun 2007 05:49 GMT Dear Dave,
Subject: Discussing the natural eye's proven behavior with my nephew.
It is clear from more than five studies, that the natural (but un-protected) eye goes down at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year. The initial "induction" of a negative refractive STATE is because the natural eye controls its refractive STATE to its average value of accommodation.
Thus our eyes are limited in the way we use them -- like it or not.
At about age 11 and 13 (I believe) they had an optometric exam an were declared to be "myopic".
I discussed the above, and other information, an suggested they had a choice in this matter, and the goal should be to:
1. Avoid the use of the minus lens.
2. Pass the DMV level tests.
3. Check their own Snellen.
All of this was predicated on both their interest and motivation. (Very difficult for most.)
In college (West Point and Annapolis), the refractive STATE goes down at a slower rate, about -1/3 diopters per year. (The average for SLIGHTLY myopic students was between -1.1 diopters to -1.6 diopters over four years).
Thus, if they were to avoid ENTRY into serious myopic (avoid the minus lens -- except for driving), then it would be wise to "take control", and preserve their distant vision.
With no preventive efforts, and a strong minus lens, I have no doubt (based on these statistics, and the primate studies) that they both would be about -2 to -5 diopters mopic at the completion of college and graduate school.
Layman Neil Brooks has NO IDEA of anthing he is talking about. He does not know them, he is not qualified to talk about ANY MEDICAL CONDITION, and about people he does not know.
Keith ran the Ironman, an has the desire and interst to protect his distant vision. He did this on the basis of HIS wise understanding of these issues.
I simply supplied this second-opinion information to him, and he chose the "high road" to protect his distant vision.
I think Joy missed one line on the DMV test. She has NO INTEREST in her distant vision.
She got a WEAK minus to meet the legal requirements, and I recommended that she alway MEET the legal requirment, but never wear that minus unless required. (Given a lack of interest in her part.)
Brooks likes to imply that she is a -7 diopter myope, and legally blind without glasses. This is of course his "made up" bull-sh.t line.
The majority-opinion ODs can tell you that having a SLIGHT negative refractive STATE is an ADVANTAGE as you approach 40 years of age.
The range of accommodation (stop to stop) reduces to about 2 to 1 diopters.
Thus, my discussion with my neice was that she had the best of both worlds, i.e., she will be able to work with no lens for near or far, probably through the age of sixty or more.
So, she will keep the minus on the dash, and will avoid the use of ANY LENS, plus or minus, for a long time into the future.
If she had NOT used the plus through the school years, there is no doubt that she would be -6 diopters myopic, and wearing that minus 16 hours / 7 days a week.
And lastly, you must remember that some ODs, while unable to help the public with plus-prevention, wake up, and insist that their own child wear the plus, when the child's refractive STATE is zero.
They can't get the public to do this (for obvious reasons of the ignorance of the public), but they can protect their own child's vision for life.
That is the real meaning of the second-opinion.
Enjoy,
Otis
> >>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:06:35 -0700, DarkProtoman > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Neil Brooks - 24 Jun 2007 15:12 GMT >It is clear from more than five studies, that the natural >(but un-protected) eye goes down at a rate of >-1/2 diopter per year. You never cite these studies.
Are you making them UP or lying about the findings?
Here's the USAF Academy Study, showing -- as I have stated -- that:
- Some myopes get more myopic - Some myopes stay stable - Some myopes get LESS myopic
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1420&page=33
Mike Tyner - 24 Jun 2007 17:06 GMT > It is clear from more than five studies, that the natural > (but un-protected) eye goes down at a rate of > -1/2 diopter per year. So the 75% of Caucasians who don't - are they "unnatural?"
>The initial "induction" of a > negative refractive STATE is because the natural > eye controls its refractive STATE to its average > value of accommodation. So why don't farsighted people get better?
> Thus, if they were to avoid ENTRY into serious myopic > (avoid the minus lens -- except for driving), then it > would be wise to "take control", and preserve their > distant vision. I saw a 9 year old girl yesterday who "avoided minus" lenses for her entire 9 years. She was -3.25.
> With no preventive efforts, and a strong minus lens, > I have no doubt (based on these statistics, and the > primate studies) that they both would be about > -2 to -5 diopters mopic at the completion of > college and graduate school. You should have more doubts.
-MT
Dr Judy - 24 Jun 2007 20:40 GMT On Jun 24, 12:49 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> It is clear from more than five studies, that the natural > (but un-protected) eye goes down at a rate of > -1/2 diopter per year. Are you referring to the rate of change in myopia in the control groups of bifocal studies? The data gives the rates of change for myopic eyes, largely in groups aged under 16 who were myopic before the study started. The ranges were large with large standard deviation, so the "average" rate is not very meaningful in predicting an individual's rate. And the "protected eyes" (those using plus at near) changed at virtually the same rate; there was an initial saving of about 0.50D progression in the first year and no savings in subsequent years.
> The initial "induction" of a > negative refractive STATE is because the natural > eye controls its refractive STATE to its average > value of accommodation. There is no evidence in the studies to support this statement. If it were true, how do you explain the existence of hyperopia?
Dr Judy
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 24 Jun 2007 21:29 GMT > On Jun 24, 12:49 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Dr Judy when you ask Otis to explain the existence of hyperopia in the framework of his theory, and also to explain why uncorrected myopes become even more myopia sometimes, he'll just cut-and-run.
his mind is made up. don't confuse him with facts!
DarkProtoman - 25 Jun 2007 18:11 GMT On Jun 24, 1:29 pm, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jun 24, 12:49 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - No, no...maybe we can overload his neocortex and cause it to GPF. Then he won't be able to bother us again.
Why does Otis want me to be seeing +9.00D in my right eye, and +2.00D in my left? I'll probably walk right into a bus 5 minutes after picking up my glasses from the optician.
Neil Brooks - 25 Jun 2007 18:18 GMT >Why does Otis want me to be seeing +9.00D in my right eye, and +2.00D >in my left? I'll probably walk right into a bus 5 minutes after >picking up my glasses from the optician. It's not so much that he WANTS you to walk into a bus. It's really more that he just couldn't give a $hit if/when you do.
Hope that clarifies things for you.
DarkProtoman - 25 Jun 2007 18:31 GMT > >Why does Otis want me to be seeing +9.00D in my right eye, and +2.00D > >in my left? I'll probably walk right into a bus 5 minutes after [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hope that clarifies things for you. Maybe Otis is really a psychopathic serial killer, and this is how he kills people --by making myopes like me use plus lenses instead of minus lenses, which multiplies the refractive error, causing them to get killed in horrible accidents.
Dave Bell - 24 Jun 2007 05:16 GMT >> Meanwhile, over in the optometric dimension, DarkProtoman is >> questioning the science of optometry and it's practitioners as to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dr Judy Which has been *my* point, all along!
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 24 Jun 2007 05:23 GMT > >> Meanwhile, over in the optometric dimension, DarkProtoman is > >> questioning the science of optometry and it's practitioners as to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Which has been *my* point, all along! the subject of this thread is DarkProtoman's refractive problems, not you justifying your earlier criticism of other posters. Oink Oink Oink. i like it when your little pink tail curls like that.
otisbrown@pa.net - 24 Jun 2007 02:40 GMT Dear Kisame Hoshigaki,
Subject: About our friend Brooks -- whose mind is in the past.
It must be the young who learn how to solve old problems as this man suggests:
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.
Max Planck
Further, Einstein said:
Imagination is more important that knowledge...knowledge is limited but imagination circles the world. To see with one's own eyes, to feel and judge without succumbing to the suggestive power of the fashion of the day, to be able to express what one has seen and felt in a trim sentence or even a cunningly wrought word...is that not glorious? When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come close to the conclusion that the gift of imagination has meant more to me than my talent for absorbing absolute knowledge.
Albert Einstein
So do not let these "antiques" put you down. They simply are conducting a poor tradition of the last 150 years.
It "works" but has very serious secondary effects and consequences, which they of course deny.
And lastly,
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift
and the rational mind is a faithful servant.
We have created a society that honors the servant
and has forgotten the gift.
Einstein
On Jun 22, 12:07 pm, Kisame Hoshigaki <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > > >> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Neil Brooks - 24 Jun 2007 03:17 GMT >Subject: About our friend Brooks -- whose >mind is in the past. > >It must be the young who learn how to solve old >problems as this man suggests: What about your young niece, Joy Benson? What happened to her?? After you experimented on her, to test your theory, she wound up as a myope with a restricted driver's license.
How come you don't talk about her?
Ms.Brainy - 24 Jun 2007 03:39 GMT On Jun 23, 6:40 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Further, Einstein said: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Albert Einstein Dear Otis,
The imagination mentioned by Einstein is his, not yours. He didn't glorify the imagination of the mentally limited and delusional, but rather described his own genius intuitive thought process.
You are not a genius, Otis. Recognizing this fact will significantly improve your mental health.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 24 Jun 2007 05:16 GMT > We teens are really not as dim-witted as *somebody* in this debate teens, huh. give us a break. which of your personas is the teen-- Kisame, Kaze, Zetsu, ' , Neil Crooks, William Horatio Bates, etc. etc.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 24 Jun 2007 05:09 GMT > Similarly, when he stated that Dr, Judy > was correct, pclarkii had to jump in and bad-mouth him, certainly even YOU should appreciate it when amateur eye doctor and theologian Otis Engineer feels it important to reaffirm to the whole newsgroup that a statement made by a licensed optometrist is correct. or perhaps you don't get it.
> Once again, I find myself mud-wrestling with pigs... yes-- there you go again. doesn't it seem a little hypocritical of you to call us mud-wrestling pigs when you're sitting right next to us, covered with mud, criticizing our posts? you're becoming infamous Dave.
Dave Bell - 24 Jun 2007 05:23 GMT >> Similarly, when he stated that Dr, Judy >> was correct, pclarkii had to jump in and bad-mouth him, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > us, covered with mud, criticizing our posts? you're becoming infamous > Dave. You clearly have no appreciation of American satirical commentary. cf. Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 24 Jun 2007 05:38 GMT > p.clar...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Similarly, when he stated that Dr, Judy [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > You clearly have no appreciation of American satirical commentary. > cf. Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain do you enjoy reading your remarks in this newsgroup? does it serve your ego? Oink!
DoctorRick - 24 Jun 2007 14:23 GMT I agree that this thread, and this NG in general, has really degenerated. But you, who first started posting in this thread criticizing others for being negative, have become worse than all the others you complain about.
If only Otis, and the troll named "comma", Kaze, Zetsu, and a dozen other screen names were to leave, things would get better quickly. I believe they are the instigators whom others respond to.
>>> Similarly, when he stated that Dr, Judy >>> was correct, pclarkii had to jump in and bad-mouth him, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >You clearly have no appreciation of American satirical commentary. >cf. Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain p.clarkii@gmail.com - 24 Jun 2007 04:56 GMT > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:54:43 -0700, "otisbr...@pa.net" > > <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Dave Dave, I've discovered your problem. First remove the corn cob, then get a life.
Dave Bell - 24 Jun 2007 05:26 GMT > Dave, I've discovered your problem. First remove the corn cob, then > get a life. And I should be taking life advice from a mudbug? Take a Zatarain's bath...
DarkProtoman - 21 Jun 2007 21:56 GMT > Dear Dark, > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Uh...myopic is nearsighted. Your eyes are too strong, causing them to focus in front of the retina; they need a diverging lens --minus diopter-- to weaken them, allowing them to focus on the retina. Farsightedness is the reverse of the above.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 21 Jun 2007 04:55 GMT > I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as > such: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Now, my OD gave my, as you would expect, a -1.00D lens for the left > eye, and a -4.50D lens for my right eye. a persons refractive error, by convention, using the same power of lenses that are required to correct it. Thus, if your refractive error OD (=right eye), is +4.50 then the lens power that is required to correct that refractive error is a +4.50 lens. that is simply just a matter of convention. Also, as a matter of convention the right eye prescription is written before the left eye (=OS) prescription. in your post you do not seem to follow the accepted conventions, so it is hard to give you advise since I cannot tell for sure what your prescription is.
did the doctor tell you if you are farsighted or nearsighted? and without any corrective lenses is your distance vision (where targets are >10 ft.away) pretty clear or is it blurry? what are the exact numbers that are written on your prescription? when you take off your eye glasses and hold them a few inches away from some printed words do they seem to magnify those words, or make them look slightly smaller? are your lenses thicker at the edges or in the middle?
MsBrainy - 22 Jun 2007 04:05 GMT >I'e got this extremely weird problem: My refractive errors are as >such: > >OS: +1.00D >OD: +4.50D Is this YOUR determination of your refractive error, or is it the Rx written by your optomerist?
>Now, my OD gave my, as you would expect, a -1.00D lens for the left >eye, and a -4.50D lens for my right eye. I suspect there is a matter of terminology here. You stated that you are myopic. It seems that you determined a "refractive error" as the negative of the prescription, which (apparently according to your way of thinking) will zero your error and thus correct it. My understanding is that this is not the conventional way of expressing refractive error, but what do I know, I am not an optometrist. Anyway, I believe that this is the source of the confusion here.
>But the left eye only gets >slightly better, while I can't notice anything w/ my right eye. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >power adjustment and a weird fisheye effect, my right eye is noticebly >improved. What's with this? This swapping and flipping stuff is even more confusing... If your glasses do not give you the needed vision correction, obviously something is wrong despite all the optometrist "assurances". It's possible that the glasses fit the Rx, but the Rx is wrong to begin with. IMHO you need a new (perhaps independent) vision exam. Again, I am not an optometrist.
>Thank you!!!!
 Signature MsBrainy
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