Medical Forum / General / Vision / June 2007
Cause and Effect
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William Horatio Bates - 12 Jun 2007 13:09 GMT Mike T,
I am interested in a statement you made earlier -
"Bad vision causes strain. Strain doesn't cause bad vision."
How do you measure that?
spammer - 13 Jun 2007 00:41 GMT On Jun 12, 8:09 am, William Horatio Bates <Kyazek...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Mike T, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > How do you measure that? On the Richter scale, about 6.9
otisbrown@pa.net - 13 Jun 2007 01:57 GMT Dear Dr. W. H. Bates,
Since you were kicked out of a medical school for your expressed opinion, (by your book), the majority-opinion people here consider you discredited.
I doubt that you will get an intelligent response.
Otis
On Jun 12, 8:09 am, William Horatio Bates <Kyazek...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Mike T, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > How do you measure that? Neil Brooks - 13 Jun 2007 02:08 GMT On Jun 12, 5:57 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Dr. W. H. Bates, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Otis Now this is getting downright frightening.
Since Uncle Otie HAS NO demonstrated sense of humor, that leads one to conclude that he genuinely doesn't realize that Bates is ... uh ... dead.
Has been since 1931.
Neil Brooks - 13 Jun 2007 02:09 GMT > On Jun 12, 5:57 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Has been since 1931. Just to get the Google message ID out there ... for when he ... uh ... realizes his mistake and erases the post:
1181696269.269435.79680@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com
It'll still appear on other groups that pull from Usenet.
otisbrown@pa.net - 13 Jun 2007 03:11 GMT Here is what happens to ANY medical person who "objects" to the grinding majority-opinion that a negative refractive STATE of the fundamental eye can not be PREVENTED.
Bates> Between 1886 and 1891 I was a lecturer at the Post Graduate Hospital and Medical School. The head of the institution was Dr. D. B. St. John Roosa. He was the author of many books, and was honored and respected by the whole medical profession. At the school they had got the habit of putting glasses on the nearsighted doctors, and I had got the habit of curing them without glasses. It was naturally annoying to a man who had put glasses on a student to have him appear at a lecture without them and say that Dr. Bates had cured him. Dr. Roosa found it particularly annoying, and the trouble reached a climax one evening at the annual banquet of the faculty when, in the presence of one hundred and fifty doctors, he suddenly poured out the vials of his wrath upon-my head.
He said that I was injuring the reputation of the Post Graduate by claiming to cure myopia. Every one knew that Donders said it was incurable, and I had no right to claim that I knew more than Donders. I reminded him that some of the men I had cured had been fitted with glasses by himself. He replied that if he had said they had myopia he had made a mistake. I suggested further investigation. "Fit some more doctors with glasses for myopia," I said, "and I will cure them. It is easy for you to examine them afterwards and see if the cure is genuine." This method did not appeal to him, however. He repeated that it was impossible to cure myopia, and to prove that it was impossible he expelled me from the Post Graduate, even the privilege of resignation being denied to me.
The fact is that, except in rare cases, man is not a reasoning being. He is dominated by authority, and when the facts are not in accord with the view imposed by authority, so much the worse for the facts. They may, and indeed must, win in the long run; but in the meantime the world gropes needlessly in darkness and endures much suffering that might have been avoided.
Dr. W. H. B.
Moral of this story in two parts:
1. You can never "win".
2. Read #1
Otis
On Jun 12, 8:57 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Dr. W. H. Bates, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Neil Brooks - 13 Jun 2007 03:19 GMT On Jun 12, 7:11 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Here is what happens to ANY medical person who > "objects" to the grinding majority-opinion that > a negative refractive STATE of the fundamental > eye can not be PREVENTED. [snip]
So ... ARE you aware that he's dead -- long dead??
And ... is it just a coincidence that WH Bates seemed to have suffered from mental illness, too? [1]
Do you feel like he was a kindred spirit to you, Uncle Otie?
[1] http://www.i-see.org/bates_obit.html
Ms.Brainy - 13 Jun 2007 03:45 GMT > On Jun 12, 7:11 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > [1]http://www.i-see.org/bates_obit.html So that you'll know: Otis will come again and again and will never give up. Like Bates and Kepler he's got what it takes to be an original and genuine great prophet, who never gets tired of telling the truth. For the truth he speaks he will repeatedly cut, copy and paste the same prophecy and will not get discouraged by the fact that nobody listens. You can ridicule him, but he will bounce back. This is the power of greatness!
Ms. Brainy Defendant for Otis and All Dead Great Men v. First Opinioners and The Medical Establishment
otisbrown@pa.net - 13 Jun 2007 16:16 GMT Dear Ms Brainy,
This is the "problem" that any scientist, medical doctor, or optometrist will have:
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to contuct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
Niccolo Machiavelli: The Prince
Enjoy,
Otis
> > On Jun 12, 7:11 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Neil Brooks - 13 Jun 2007 16:25 GMT On Jun 13, 8:16 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Ms Brainy, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Niccolo Machiavelli: The Prince Aphorisms that seem relevant to Uncle Otie:
# A few clowns short of a circus # The wheel is spinning, but the hamster's dead # Got a screw loose # Nutty as a fruit cake # Bats in the belfry # Chink in one's armour # Lost the plot # Out to Lunch # Not on the ball # Odd ball # Loopy # Potty # Doolally # Mad as a hatter # As sharp as a marble # Suffering from a marble deficiency # There's a rip in his marble's bag # Losing your marbles # Basket case # Mad as a monkey on a trike # Not firing on all cylinders # A kangaroo loose in the top paddock # Hasn't got both hands on the steering wheel # Hasn't got both oars in the water # One wave short of a shipwreck # A few bricks short of a load # One scout short of a posse # One card short of a full deck # An olive short of a pizza # A sandwich short of a picnic # A sausage short of a barbecue # Four quarters short of a dollar # Ten pence short of a pound # Five cans short of a six-pack # A tinny short of a six-pack (australian version) # A few french fries short of a happy meal # One putt short of a par # He or she is living in cloud cuckoo land (nine) # If I gave a penny for his/her thoughts I'd get change back # Not the brightest bulb on the tree # Not the sharpest tool in the box (shed) # About as bright as a burnt out lightbulb # There are no phones on planet Pluto # Wired up to the moon # A few slates missing from the roof # A tile (screw) loose # Not quite the full shilling (ticket) # Driving on only three wheels # Knitting with only one needle # The lift doesn't go all the way to the top # The lights are on (the door is open) but there's no one at home
Neil Crooks - 13 Jun 2007 16:29 GMT Aphorisms that seem relevant to myself:
# A few clowns short of a circus # The wheel is spinning, but the hamster's dead # Got a screw loose # Nutty as a fruit cake # Bats in the belfry # Chink in one's armour # Lost the plot # Out to Lunch # Not on the ball # Odd ball # Loopy # Potty # Doolally # Mad as a hatter # As sharp as a marble # Suffering from a marble deficiency # There's a rip in his marble's bag # Losing your marbles # Basket case # Mad as a monkey on a trike # Not firing on all cylinders # A kangaroo loose in the top paddock # Hasn't got both hands on the steering wheel # Hasn't got both oars in the water # One wave short of a shipwreck # A few bricks short of a load # One scout short of a posse # One card short of a full deck # An olive short of a pizza # A sandwich short of a picnic # A sausage short of a barbecue # Four quarters short of a dollar # Ten pence short of a pound # Five cans short of a six-pack # A tinny short of a six-pack (australian version) # A few french fries short of a happy meal # One putt short of a par # He or she is living in cloud cuckoo land (nine) # If I gave a penny for his/her thoughts I'd get change back # Not the brightest bulb on the tree # Not the sharpest tool in the box (shed) # About as bright as a burnt out lightbulb # There are no phones on planet Pluto # Wired up to the moon # A few slates missing from the roof # A tile (screw) loose # Not quite the full shilling (ticket) # Driving on only three wheels # Knitting with only one needle # The lift doesn't go all the way to the top # The lights are on (the door is open) but there's no one at home
Neil Brooks - 13 Jun 2007 16:49 GMT On Jun 13, 8:29 am, Neil Crooks <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
If it's at all within your capability, you really OUGHT to find a way to come up with something better than the functional equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?"
Otherwise, please put one of your (even less mature) siblings back on the keyboard. At least they have an excuse....
Neil Crooks - 13 Jun 2007 16:59 GMT >If it's at all within your capability, I shall assure myself: It's not.
Dan Abel - 13 Jun 2007 19:27 GMT > # Not the sharpest tool in the box (shed) > # About as bright as a burnt out lightbulb Along the same lines:
Not the sharpest knife in the block.
Nicolaas Hawkins - 13 Jun 2007 03:50 GMT > On Jun 12, 7:11 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: >> Here is what happens to ANY medical person who [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > [1] http://www.i-see.org/bates_obit.html Did it occur to you that it is not Brown posting but a clever impersonator?
 Signature Nicolaas.
2007 Pricelessware CD now available. 600Mb of the best of the best in Freeware. E-Mail me for details.
... Losing your temper doesn't get rid of it.
Neil Brooks - 13 Jun 2007 03:55 GMT > Did it occur to you that it is not Brown posting but a clever > impersonator? Yes, but ... you can verify for yourself: It's lovable, old Uncle Otie.
Nicolaas Hawkins - 13 Jun 2007 05:13 GMT >> Did it occur to you that it is not Brown posting but a clever >> impersonator? > > Yes, but ... you can verify for yourself: It's lovable, old Uncle Otie. I really don't care about him enough to be bothered, Neil, being on the other side of the world -- but I really did think that any attempt at wit, however weak, was right out of character.
 Signature Nicolaas.
2007 Pricelessware CD now available. 600Mb of the best of the best in Freeware. E-Mail me for details.
... If you are on the cutting edge, you are holding the knife the wrong way
Neil Brooks - 13 Jun 2007 05:40 GMT > I really don't care about him enough to be bothered, Neil, being on the > other side of the world I think I'm fond of you, Nicholaas ;-)
Nicolaas Hawkins - 13 Jun 2007 07:44 GMT >> I really don't care about him enough to be bothered, Neil, being on the >> other side of the world > > I think I'm fond of you, Nicholaas ;-) <Hmmmm>
:-)
 Signature Nicolaas.
2007 Pricelessware CD now available. 600Mb of the best of the best in Freeware. E-Mail me for details.
... A good pun is its own reword.
Kisame Hoshigaki - 14 Jun 2007 17:23 GMT > On Jun 12, 7:11 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > [1]http://www.i-see.org/bates_obit.html Dear Neil Brooks,
Subject: My respect for Dr. Bates
Bates did not suffer from "aphasia".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Bates#Bates.27_mental_health
The true story of Dr. Bates' life and work is yet to be told. It is a life that has all the makings of a NYT bestseller. Where and when did he successfully self-treat his own presbyopia? Was his marital situation and family as unsupportive of his work as were the ophthalmologists? Newspaper accounts of his "disappearances" are speculative and sensationalized. He was obviously a person of interest to the general public, yet he chose to remove himself to North Dakota, where his most remarkable research in treating eyesight of children was conducted. He was a member of Atlantic Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Mason. There is no evidence of mental illness. I do not think this remarkable man and scientist ever was or "went crazy".
http://www.iblindness.org/forum/index.php/topic,540.msg2508.html#msg2508
Kisame Hoshigaki - 14 Jun 2007 17:35 GMT Dear Neil Brooks,
Subject: A "biography" of Bates.
This is a particularly "well-written" biography -
Brief Biography of W.H. Bates, MD
The National Cyclopaedia of American Biography, vol 24, pp. 383-4.
BATES, William Horatio, physician, was born in Newark, N.J., Dec. 23, 1860, the son of Charles and Amelia (Halsey) Bates. He was graduated A.B. at Cornell university in 1881 and received his medical degree at the college of physicians and surgeons in 1885. Establishing a practice in New York city, he served for a time as clinical assistant at the Manhattan Eye and Ear hospital and was attending physician at Bellevue hospital, 1886-88, the New York Eye infirmary, the Northern dispensary and the Northeastern dispensary, 1886-98.
He was an instructor in ophthalmology at the New York Post-Graduate medical school and hospital, 1886-91. In his professional work Bates at first devoted his attention to the various organs of the head but finally restricted himself to the eye alone. He resigned his hospital appointments in 1896 and for several years engaged in experimental work. After practicing for several years at Grand Forks, North.Dakota., he returned to New York and was attending physician at the Harlem hospital during 1907-22.
In his researches Bates proved exerimentally that the normal fixation of the eye is central, but never stationary, and the technique developed by him for treating imperfect eye sight without the use of glasses was based on this principle. This technique was the practical application of the psychological theory of the field of consciousness, which is predicated as a point of focus, the so-called point of apperception, surrounded by a field of increasing vagueness.
His method was to develop central fixation by training the patient in the dual art of relaxing and focusing the eyes. While carrying on his experiments he developed a method of photographing the eye to reveal changes in surface curvature as the eye functioned. The work is discussed in "A Study of Images Reflected from the Cornea, Iris, Lens, and Sclera" (N.Y. Med. Jour., May 18, 1918).
His researches on the influence of memory upon the function of vision are described in "Memory as an Aid to Vision" (N.Y.Med. Jour., May 24, 1919). In 1894, while seeking to determine the therapeutic effect on the eye of the active principles of the ductless glands, he discovered the stringent and hemostatic properties of the aqueous extract of the suprarenal capsule, later commercialized as adrenalin.
In 1896 he announced this discovery in a paper read before the New York Academy of Medicine. He introduced a new operation for the relief of persistent deafness in 1886, consisting of puncturing or incising the ear drum membrane.
He published a book, "Perfect Eyesight Without Glasses" (1919), which he had to issue at his own expense, expounding his theories which were for the most part contrary to established ophthalmological practice. He also wrote articles describing his methods. He was a member of the New York State Medical Society and was affiliated with the Dutch Reformed church. He was fond of sports, especially of tennis in which he won several awards and while living in North Dakota was state champion. He was an excellent runner and at the advanced age of fifty- eight was still able to win a prize.
Bates was a quiet, modest man, a serious student of literature and astronomy, with a fondness for children. He was married three times: (1) in 1883, to Edith Kitchell of New York city, by whom he had one son, Halsey Bates; she died in 1886; (2) to Margaret Crawford, who died in 1927, leaving two children, William Crawford, and Milo Bates, wife of Charles McComb; and (3) Aug. 9, 1928, to Mrs. Emily (Ackerman) Lierman, daughter of Robert Ackerman, of Newark, N.J. Bates died in New York city, July 10, 1931.
- http://www.vision-training.com/Bates/Biography.htm
KH
Neil Brooks - 14 Jun 2007 18:44 GMT I guess I could believe you, but--for whatever reason (it'll come to you)--I'll go with what I saw in the New York Times.
Crazy is as crazy does. If then were now, he'd be living the quiet life at Camp Happy, sharing a room with Uncle Otie:
from: http://www.i-see.org/bates_obit.html
New York Times, July 11, 1931, p. 13, col 1. DR. W. H. BATES DIES; AN EYE SPECIALIST
Victim, Many Years Ago of a Strange Form of Aphasia, He Disappeared Twice.
DISCOVERED VALUED DRUG
Added Suprarenal to Field of Optic Surgery -- Wrote Book, "Perfect Sight Without Glasses."
Dr. William H. Bates, a specialist in diseases of the eye, died yesterday, after a year's illness, at his residence, 210 Madison Avenue. He is survived by a widow, the former Mrs. Emily Ackerman Lierman, who had been his assistant and partner in experiment al research for seventeen years before their marriage in August 1928, and by a son of the first of two earlier marriages. Dr. Bates was twice a widower.
The death of Dr. Bates recalls some years ago of his two strange disappearances, which medical men regarded as among the most remarkable instances of aphasia [sic] or loss of memory. In 1902, seven years after his graduation from the College of Physicians and Surgeons, when he was making his way rapidly in his profession and was at work on an important medical book, he vanished from the sight and knowledge of his friends. The day that he was last seen, on Aug. 30, he had written an affectionate, characteristic letter to his wife, who was then visiting her mother in Newport, and had sent her books and instruments from his apartment in the Lonsdale, 567 Madison Avenue.
When he failed to return to the apartment for several days the janitor informed Mrs. Bates, his second wife, who hurried to the city and began the search for her husband. Six weeks later she learned that he was working as an assistant in the Charing Cross Hospital, London, to which he had been taken as a patient. Mrs. Bates went to London, where she found her husband in an exhausted, nervous state, with no recollection of recent events. She took him to the Savoy Hotel, where he rested for two days and then disappeared again.
Mrs. Bates sought her husband on the Continent and in this country in vain, tracing every clue that reached her. She died before he was heard of again. How he was discovered and induced to return to New York and resume his practice has never been revealed in detail. According to the best version, a fellow-oculist, Dr. J. E. Kelly, found Dr. Bates, by accident in 1910, practicing in Grand Forks, N.D. A few months later the two men occupied offices together in this city, and thereafter Dr. Bates worked as hard and as successfully as he had done before his original disappearance.
The theories and methods of eye treatment used by Dr. Bates did not always accord with those of the majority of eye specialists. He was the originator of a method of treating imperfect eyesight by mental relaxation. He discovered the drug suprarenal, which has been called almost as valuable as cocaine in optic surgery. The best known of his books is "Perfect Sight Without Glasses."
Kisame Hoshigaki - 14 Jun 2007 19:19 GMT Dear Neil Brooks,
Subject: A "biography" of Bates.
This is a particularly "well-written" biography -
Brief Biography of W.H. Bates, MD
The National Cyclopaedia of American Biography, vol 24, pp. 383-4.
BATES, William Horatio, physician, was born in Newark, N.J., Dec. 23, 1860, the son of Charles and Amelia (Halsey) Bates. He was graduated A.B. at Cornell university in 1881 and received his medical degree at the college of physicians and surgeons in 1885. Establishing a practice in New York city, he served for a time as clinical assistant at the Manhattan Eye and Ear hospital and was attending physician at Bellevue hospital, 1886-88, the New York Eye infirmary, the Northern dispensary and the Northeastern dispensary, 1886-98.
He was an instructor in ophthalmology at the New York Post-Graduate medical school and hospital, 1886-91. In his professional work Bates at first devoted his attention to the various organs of the head but finally restricted himself to the eye alone. He resigned his hospital appointments in 1896 and for several years engaged in experimental work. After practicing for several years at Grand Forks, North.Dakota., he returned to New York and was attending physician at the Harlem hospital during 1907-22.
In his researches Bates proved exerimentally that the normal fixation of the eye is central, but never stationary, and the technique developed by him for treating imperfect eye sight without the use of glasses was based on this principle. This technique was the practical application of the psychological theory of the field of consciousness, which is predicated as a point of focus, the so-called point of apperception, surrounded by a field of increasing vagueness.
His method was to develop central fixation by training the patient in the dual art of relaxing and focusing the eyes. While carrying on his experiments he developed a method of photographing the eye to reveal changes in surface curvature as the eye functioned. The work is discussed in "A Study of Images Reflected from the Cornea, Iris, Lens, and Sclera" (N.Y. Med. Jour., May 18, 1918).
His researches on the influence of memory upon the function of vision are described in "Memory as an Aid to Vision" (N.Y.Med. Jour., May 24, 1919). In 1894, while seeking to determine the therapeutic effect on the eye of the active principles of the ductless glands, he discovered the stringent and hemostatic properties of the aqueous extract of the suprarenal capsule, later commercialized as adrenalin.
In 1896 he announced this discovery in a paper read before the New York Academy of Medicine. He introduced a new operation for the relief of persistent deafness in 1886, consisting of puncturing or incising the ear drum membrane.
He published a book, "Perfect Eyesight Without Glasses" (1919), which he had to issue at his own expense, expounding his theories which were for the most part contrary to established ophthalmological practice. He also wrote articles describing his methods. He was a member of the New York State Medical Society and was affiliated with the Dutch Reformed church. He was fond of sports, especially of tennis in which he won several awards and while living in North Dakota was state champion. He was an excellent runner and at the advanced age of fifty- eight was still able to win a prize.
Bates was a quiet, modest man, a serious student of literature and astronomy, with a fondness for children. He was married three times: (1) in 1883, to Edith Kitchell of New York city, by whom he had one son, Halsey Bates; she died in 1886; (2) to Margaret Crawford, who died in 1927, leaving two children, William Crawford, and Milo Bates, wife of Charles McComb; and (3) Aug. 9, 1928, to Mrs. Emily (Ackerman) Lierman, daughter of Robert Ackerman, of Newark, N.J. Bates died in New York city, July 10, 1931.
- http://www.vision-training.com/Bates/Biography.htm
KH
Kisame Hoshigaki - 14 Jun 2007 19:23 GMT Dear Neil Brooks,
Subject: A "biography" of Bates.
This is a particularly "well-written" biography -
Brief Biography of W.H. Bates, MD
The National Cyclopaedia of American Biography, vol 24, pp. 383-4.
BATES, William Horatio, physician, was born in Newark, N.J., Dec. 23, 1860, the son of Charles and Amelia (Halsey) Bates. He was graduated A.B. at Cornell university in 1881 and received his medical degree at the college of physicians and surgeons in 1885. Establishing a practice in New York city, he served for a time as clinical assistant at the Manhattan Eye and Ear hospital and was attending physician at Bellevue hospital, 1886-88, the New York Eye infirmary, the Northern dispensary and the Northeastern dispensary, 1886-98.
He was an instructor in ophthalmology at the New York Post-Graduate medical school and hospital, 1886-91. In his professional work Bates at first devoted his attention to the various organs of the head but finally restricted himself to the eye alone. He resigned his hospital appointments in 1896 and for several years engaged in experimental work. After practicing for several years at Grand Forks, North.Dakota., he returned to New York and was attending physician at the Harlem hospital during 1907-22.
In his researches Bates proved exerimentally that the normal fixation of the eye is central, but never stationary, and the technique developed by him for treating imperfect eye sight without the use of glasses was based on this principle. This technique was the practical application of the psychological theory of the field of consciousness, which is predicated as a point of focus, the so-called point of apperception, surrounded by a field of increasing vagueness.
His method was to develop central fixation by training the patient in the dual art of relaxing and focusing the eyes. While carrying on his experiments he developed a method of photographing the eye to reveal changes in surface curvature as the eye functioned. The work is discussed in "A Study of Images Reflected from the Cornea, Iris, Lens, and Sclera" (N.Y. Med. Jour., May 18, 1918).
His researches on the influence of memory upon the function of vision are described in "Memory as an Aid to Vision" (N.Y.Med. Jour., May 24, 1919). In 1894, while seeking to determine the therapeutic effect on the eye of the active principles of the ductless glands, he discovered the stringent and hemostatic properties of the aqueous extract of the suprarenal capsule, later commercialized as adrenalin.
In 1896 he announced this discovery in a paper read before the New York Academy of Medicine. He introduced a new operation for the relief of persistent deafness in 1886, consisting of puncturing or incising the ear drum membrane.
He published a book, "Perfect Eyesight Without Glasses" (1919), which he had to issue at his own expense, expounding his theories which were for the most part contrary to established ophthalmological practice. He also wrote articles describing his methods. He was a member of the New York State Medical Society and was affiliated with the Dutch Reformed church. He was fond of sports, especially of tennis in which he won several awards and while living in North Dakota was state champion. He was an excellent runner and at the advanced age of fifty- eight was still able to win a prize.
Bates was a quiet, modest man, a serious student of literature and astronomy, with a fondness for children. He was married three times: (1) in 1883, to Edith Kitchell of New York city, by whom he had one son, Halsey Bates; she died in 1886; (2) to Margaret Crawford, who died in 1927, leaving two children, William Crawford, and Milo Bates, wife of Charles McComb; and (3) Aug. 9, 1928, to Mrs. Emily (Ackerman) Lierman, daughter of Robert Ackerman, of Newark, N.J. Bates died in New York city, July 10, 1931.
- http://www.vision-training.com/Bates/Biography.htm
KH
otisbrown@pa.net - 15 Jun 2007 03:31 GMT Dear Kisame Hoshigaki,
Sci.med.vision is of course AGAINST BATES, and any and all PREVENTIVE methods.
But people like Dr. Jacob Liberman Ph.D., advocate and support Bates. See:
http://www.exerciseyoureyes.com/
He has a good book on the subject.
He has cleared the visiohn of OTHER OPTOMETRISTS by his method.
Best,
Otis
On Jun 14, 2:23 pm, Kisame Hoshigaki <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Neil Brooks, > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > KH Neil Brooks - 15 Jun 2007 04:36 GMT On Jun 14, 7:31 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Kisame Hoshigaki, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > He has a good book on the subject. Sure he does. You sell books. Fred Deakins sells books. Steve Leung sells books.
All of you, though, are at least myopic. Some of you are highly myopic. One of you even "guinea pigged" his niece ... who wound up a myope with a restricted driver's license.
What's that say?
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 15 Jun 2007 05:12 GMT On Jun 14, 10:31 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Kisame Hoshigaki, > > Sci.med.vision is of course AGAINST BATES, and > any and all PREVENTIVE methods. of course. we want everyone to get addicted to the wretched minus lens. we want to plunge their lives into despair so that they develop staircase myopia and must return to our offices yearly for stronger and stronger prescriptions. this way we make lots of money, and then, after we are done exploiting our patients, their retinas will detach and then our ophthalmology co-conspirators will make truck-loads of money doing the surgery after which they will refer them back to us for low vision care.
and docs, don't miss the next meeting of the secret society of primary opinion optometrists (SSPOO) to be held in Monaco in september. we will discuss methods to facilitate myopia progression while we dine on lobster and sip fine wines. our featured guest speakers at the kick- off reception will be scooter libby and donald trump. see you there fellow docs!
Mike Tyner - 14 Jun 2007 19:36 GMT > The true story of Dr. Bates' life and work is yet to be told. It is a > life that has all the makings of a NYT bestseller. Where and when did I only know Dr. Bates from what he wrote, but that's enough to convince most readers that his observations aren't very repeatable. From PSWG:
"Only a small part of the phenomena of refractive errors is accounted for by the inaccuracy of focus"
"The lens is not a factor in accommodation"
"Yet it is to-day a perfectly well-known and undisputed fact that many persons, after the removal of the lens for cataract, are able to see perfectly at different distances without any change in their glasses."
"All persons with errors of refraction [have], at frequent intervals, moments of normal vision when their myopia, hypermetropia, or astigmatism wholly disappears."
"A sudden exposure to strong light, or rapid or sudden changes of light, are likely to produce imperfect sight in the normal eye, continuing in some cases for weeks and months.
"Noise is also a frequent cause of defective vision in the normal eye. All persons see imperfectly when they hear an unexpected loud noise. Familiar sounds do not lower the vision, but unfamiliar ones always do."
"Women who wear glasses for minor defects of vision often observe that they are made more or less color-blind by them."
And my favorite: "Some patients are so responsive to mental suggestion that you can relieve their discomfort, or improve their sight, with almost any glasses you like to put on them."
-MT
Ms.Brainy - 14 Jun 2007 20:11 GMT One of the most comprehensive debunking of the Bates' fallacies can be found in the following article: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/bates.html . Highly recommended!
Kisame Hoshigaki - 14 Jun 2007 21:12 GMT You know, that website has been debunked itself on many occasions.
In fact, one time I remember them saying something like 'acupuncture is a load of crap and doesn't do jack $hit'.
Neil Brooks - 14 Jun 2007 21:28 GMT On Jun 14, 1:12 pm, Kisame Hoshigaki <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You know, that website has been debunked itself on many occasions. > > In fact, one time I remember them saying something like 'acupuncture > is a load of crap and doesn't do jack $hit'. Despite the fact that you've adopted Uncle Otie's writing .. um .. "style," the idea of "Proof by Assertion" is rather looked down upon around these parts.
Here's the article. A little research wouldn't kill you.
Sadly.
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
Ms.Brainy - 14 Jun 2007 21:39 GMT > On Jun 14, 1:12 pm, Kisame Hoshigaki > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html I wonder where our Japanese friend learned American slang.
And yes, Quackwatch has debunked numerous health/medical frauds and quackeries, from chiropractice to homeopathy. The revivalists, zestues, kazes and their teenage syblings could learn something about scientific methods and conclusions v. faith and fake. http://www.quackwatch.org/index.html
otisbrown@pa.net - 15 Jun 2007 03:04 GMT Subject: Who is ainti-Bates? Who is against the second-opinion?
For the majority-opinion ODs, ANY PERSON who objects to the over-prescribed minus lens (and stair-case myopia to follow), is AUTOMATICALLY CLASSED AS A "Bates person".
In evaluating Bate's arguments (scientific and medical), I think that the majority-opinion medical people NEVER REVIEW ANY ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC FACTS OR TRUTH.
Bate's deserved a FAIR HEARING.
He never got it. That is why I developed my site, and refer to all who OBJECT to the minus lens, and SEEK better preventive methods, as second-opinion people.
That is how and why I pay my respects to Dr. W. H. Bates.
For those who think I am "anti-Bates", I would ask you to read and understand this situation clearly.
Best,
Otis
+++++++++++
On Jun 12, 10:11 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Here is what happens to ANY medical person who > "objects" to the grinding majority-opinion that [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > - Show quoted text - p.clarkii@gmail.com - 13 Jun 2007 14:46 GMT On Jun 12, 8:57 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Dr. W. H. Bates, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > > How do you measure that? I would like to get your intelligent responses to the questions that i keep asking you on this forum Otis. why do you keep ducking and running anything anyone asks you to back-up what you say? your credibility in this forum has gone from zero to negative numbers since you are unable to support your point-of-view with ANY data on humans, and unable to explain why all the human data that has been collected on plus prevention and overminusing clearly shows that the "dynamic human fundamental eye" (your strange terminology, not mine) DOES NOT function as you say it does!
furthermore you can't even prove that you are the retired engineer that you claim to be.
you are like Kaze (=WH Bates, etc. etc.). just a troll who keeps coming back over and over again. no life huh? sad and pathetic. just go down to the senior center and play cards with your friends.
Old_A$$_Brown@pa.net - 13 Jun 2007 16:40 GMT Dear PClar,
Subject: running ducks
PClar> I would like to get your intelligent responses to the questions that i keep asking you on this forum Otis.
OAB> I have little doubt that you would. I would be amazed to see that, myself.
PClar> why do you keep ducking and running anything anyone asks you to back-up what you say?
OAB> There is more than "adequate" "back-up" on my site:
www.Believe-Me-Because-I-am-Myopic-As-Hell.com
PClar> your credibility in this forum has gone from zero to negative numbers since you are unable to support your point-of-view with ANY data on humans
OAB> You're virtually BEGGING for me to trot out Raphaelson's "The Printer's Son," now aren't you?
PClar> and unable to explain why all the human data that has been collected on plus prevention and overminusing clearly shows that the "dynamic human fundamental eye" (your strange terminology, not mine) DOES NOT function as you say it does!
OAB> Have I told you that my nephew, Keith Benson, has 20/20 vision? Why isn't that enough? His sister, Joy Benson, would be here to speak for herself, but her myopia prevents her from functioning in "civil society."
PClar> furthermore you can't even prove that you are the retired engineer that you claim to be.
OAB> From this we learn that a wise prince sees to it that never, in order to attack someone, does he become the ally of a prince more powerful than himself, except when necessity forces him, as I said above. If you win, you are the powerful kings prisoner, and wise princes avoid as much as they can being in other mens power.
- Niccolo Machiavelli
PClar> you are like Kaze (=WH Bates, etc. etc.). just a troll who keeps coming back over and over again. no life huh? sad and pathetic. just go down to the senior center and play cards with your friends.
OAB> Putting aside your petty insults for the moment: I WOULD VERY MUCH like to "go down to the senior center and play cards with my friends." Sadly, I am under-minused and cannot safely leave the house. Also, those at the senior center "don't really like me" very much. They are under the impression that I talk but do not listen.
Can you "imagine?"
Old_A$$_Brown En-gun-ear (and out the other)
Mike Tyner - 13 Jun 2007 02:36 GMT > I am interested in a statement you made earlier - > > "Bad vision causes strain. Strain doesn't cause bad vision." > > How do you measure that? In the textbooks they measure it as the incidence of asthenopia.
You would be surprised how often bad vision exists without asthenopia.
-MT
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