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Medical Forum / General / Vision / May 2007Tonometers
This may be a bit off topic but maybe somebody here can help me. My older dog was recently diagnosed with acute glaucoma in one eye. He has probably lost his vision in that eye and it will maybe be removed. However I do hope we can save his vision in the other eye, but my veterinarian doesn't have access to a tonometer! She says they are too expensive and cases with glaucoma too rare. After asking around, no other vet in my area have a tonometer (I live on an island) so now I'm thinking about buying one myself. I know they are expensive, but maybe there is somebody who knows a good place to buy used or reconditioned tonometers? Preferably it should be air-puff or otherwise non contact and hand held. Is there a difference in tonometers for animals and humans? Please if you know of a good place to buy one, let me know. It pains me so much if my dog would become totally blind just because we don't have the right equipment. Thanks. On May 9, 1:20 pm, critterfa...@aland.net wrote: > This may be a bit off topic but maybe somebody here can help me. My > older dog was recently diagnosed with acute glaucoma in one eye. He [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks. At the risk of asking seemingly ridiculous questions, have you called -- begging and pleading -- every HUMAN-seeing optometrist and ophthalmologist in your area?? I could easily imagine one being a dog lover and having you come by after hours to check your dog's pressure. I'm not too sure how different the technique is (fitting a canine face into a human gizmo), but ... YOU would face the same challenges ... with less experience ... if you went the route you propose. Worth a few calls, no? So why are we not Googling "canine tonometers"? There are a lot of follow up links there. Don W. On 5/9/07 1:20 PM, in article 1178742057.602577.243670@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, > This may be a bit off topic but maybe somebody here can help me. My > older dog was recently diagnosed with acute glaucoma in one eye. He > has probably lost his vision in that eye and it will maybe be removed. > However I do hope we can save his vision in the other eye, but my > veterinarian doesn't have access to a tonometer! <snip> Get a new life and/or dog. Bill > On 5/9/07 1:20 PM, in article > 1178742057.602577.243...@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bill Hey, Bill: Here's a link for ya': http://tinyurl.com/jqh2p Happy reading, Neil On 5/9/07 3:52 PM, in article 1178751175.393394.227830@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com, "Neil Brooks" <neil0502@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hey, Bill: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Happy reading, Because of my neighbors, I have little empathy for dog owners. Finally, they put down the worst barkers because of health problems. They did not walk them, train them, or pay with them. They leave food out for all the cats, rats, possums, and pigeons. They have a sh.t lined roof. Just today, I had to wipe up a big bird plop on my windshield before I could drive. I know all dog owners are not the same, but these are the ones that give the greatest trouble. Bill -- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go. > Because of my neighbors, I have little empathy for dog owners. Because of this, you extrapolated from a sample size of one to the entire universe of dog owners. More particularly, you exhibited callous disregard for somebody pained by watching their dog deal with late-stage physical problems. With each successive post, you seem to have more and more in common with Otis, Bill. And that's far from a compliment. Bitch at your neighbors. Leave people like the OP alone. > > Because of my neighbors, I have little empathy for dog owners. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Bitch at your neighbors. Leave people like the OP alone. When that sample size of the universe is on your back every day, his feelings are understandable. > > > Because of my neighbors, I have little empathy for dog owners. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > When that sample size of the universe is on your back every day, his > feelings are understandable. I have no problem with his feelings. I have a large problem with his actions. Callous, mis-directed anger and insensitivity didn't help Bill, didn't resolve the neighbor issue, and hadn't a snowball's chance in hell of doing anything productive for the OP. > I have no problem with his feelings. I have a large problem with his > actions. > > Callous, mis-directed anger and insensitivity didn't help Bill, didn't > resolve the neighbor issue, and hadn't a snowball's chance in hell of > doing anything productive for the OP. And so the beauty of an unmoderated group. :) On 5/10/07 9:04 AM, in article 1178813072.494833.179790@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, "Neil Brooks" <neil0502@yahoo.com> wrote: >> When that sample size of the universe is on your back every day, his >> feelings are understandable. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > resolve the neighbor issue, and hadn't a snowball's chance in hell of > doing anything productive for the OP. It made me feel better! That is good enough for me. I realize that poisoning the dogs is futile and that the fault does not lie with the dogs. Poisoning the neighbors would be more appropriate although illegal and counterproductive in the long run. :=) Bill -- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go. > I realize that poisoning the dogs is futile and that the fault does not lie > with the dogs. Poisoning the neighbors would be more appropriate although > illegal and counterproductive in the long run. :=) Yes, neighbor poisoning is illegal in most states, but not necessarily counterproductive. :) On May 9, 4:20 pm, critterfa...@aland.net wrote: > This may be a bit off topic but maybe somebody here can help me. My > older dog was recently diagnosed with acute glaucoma in one eye. He [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks. I practice near a Vet training clinic and have talked to the vet eye docs. They use old Schiotz type tonometers, calibrated for dog. They are available on E-bay and at antique dealers and are affordable. An air puff will set you back thousands of dollars and I doubt if you could convince your dog to sit still long enough to get a reading. Frankly, you don't need a tonometer to diagnose acute glaucoma and, from what I understand, chronic open angle glaucoma is rare in dogs. Also, dogs don't rely on their vision as much as we do; smell is their primary sensory organ and blind dogs function quite well. Dr Judy >They use old Schiotz type tonometers, calibrated for dog. They >are available on E-bay and at antique dealers and are affordable. > I was going to recommend that one. Somone will have to hold the dog still with it's eye aimed upward and keep the lids pulled apart for the second or two the reading takes, and you'll have to get some topical anesthetic to drop in first. They're pretty easy to use and accurate enough for this purpose. You might even find an old Tonomat around. Even easier to use. w.stacy, o.d. > >They use old Schiotz type tonometers, calibrated for dog. They > >are available on E-bay and at antique dealers and are affordable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > w.stacy, o.d. Thank you for your replies. I must clarify that I meant to donate the instrument to the vet of course. I realise that I can't use it myself. I have a breed that is predisposed to glaucoma due to pectin ligament dysplasia, and from what I've heard it is important to check the other eye for elevated pressure. I will try at ebay and see if I can get the old Schiotz type like you recommended. Thanks On 5/9/07 5:23 PM, in article 1Et0i.2235$zj3.1460@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net, "William Stacy" <wstacy@obase.net> wrote: >> They use old Schiotz type tonometers, calibrated for dog. They >> are available on E-bay and at antique dealers and are affordable. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > w.stacy, o.d. How skilful can practitioners get in estimating IOP by touch? Bill -- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go. > On 5/9/07 5:23 PM, in article > 1Et0i.2235$zj3.1...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net, "William Stacy" [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > How skilful can practitioners get in estimating IOP by touch? You can tell the difference between stony hard and mushy soft. Dr Judy >How skilful can practitioners get in estimating IOP by touch? Some examiners, by comparing palpation after determining the IOP by another technique, may be able to estimate IOP within 2-3mm. I'm hoping that was stated with tongue firmly planted in the buccal mucosa... > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >another technique, may be able to estimate IOP within 2-3mm. > To me, they all feel like "18" :) -MT I'm hoping that was stated with tongue firmly planted in the buccal mucosa... Anon E. Muss wrote: Some examiners, by comparing palpation after determining the IOP by another technique, may be able to estimate IOP within 2-3mm. I've personally never even tried that method of "tonometry", because I was taught that someone way back when had double blinded the technique and it was found to be completely useless. > To me, they all feel like "18" :) > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > I've personally never even tried that method of "tonometry", because I > was taught that someone way back when had double blinded the technique > and it was found to be completely useless. Some mechanics (typical for bicycle mechanics) "don't need to steenkin' torque wrench" to properly tighten fasteners. When their "decades of experience" were checked with calibrated equipment, they were always significantly off--way beyond the prescribed tolerances. Trust but verify ;-) >>>How skilful can practitioners get in estimating IOP by touch? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I'm hoping that was stated with tongue firmly planted in the buccal >mucosa... Uh, no. ===== "Atlas of Glaucoma -- Second Edition" -- Edited by Neil T Choplin/Diane C Lundy. (c) 2007 Informa UK Ltd. <http://tinyurl.com/2baorz> ISBN-10: 1 84184 518 3 ISBN-13: 978 1 84184 518 0 Publication Date: 02/13/2007 Chapter 4 -- "Intraocular pressure and its measurement", p. 30-1, section entitled "Estimation of Intraocular Pressure by Palpation" -- last sentence: [...] "If palpation is applied after determining pressure by another technique, the examiner may become quite capable of estimating intraocular pressure to within 2-3mm." ===== ===== <http://tinyurl.com/2bzvl9> [...] "In fact, it is said that the famous Dr. Claus Dohlman, Harvard professor of Ophthalmology at the Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary, remains as accurate in measuring IOP with his fingers as any ophthalmologist using the high-tech tonometers of today!" ===== ===== <http://tinyurl.com/29cnxe> [...] " P: This sounds a little strange, but can you tell by feeling the eyeball whether pressure is high? I ask because the eyeball that has not had a trabeculectomy feels somewhat larger to the touch than the one that had the trab. Dr. Wilson: Yes, with training, you can estimate the IOP by finger palpation. Moderator: I try to guess my IOP before I get it taken, and I'm usually pretty close. [...] ===== ===== <http://tinyurl.com/yv7alm> [...] "Soon afterwards, digital palpation tonometry became an essential clinical skill to be mastered by all ophthalmologists. When mechanical tonometry was first introduced in the late 1800s, many ophthalmologists felt so confident with their ability to estimate IOP by palpation that they viewed the new technology as inferior. Schnabel, in a 1908 address to the Vienna Ophthalmological Society, stated that although he did not object in principle to mechanical tonometry, he expected very little from this test since digital tonometry by an expert is a much more accurate test." [...] ===== >This may be a bit off topic but maybe somebody here can help me. My >older dog was recently diagnosed with acute glaucoma in one eye. He [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >or otherwise non contact and hand held. Is there a difference in >tonometers for animals and humans? First, there are veterinary ophthalmologists -- here's one: http://tinyurl.com/ywxnpb probably only located in large urban areas. You can also try veterinary schools if there is one relatively close to you. A veterinary assistant I spoke to a while ago uses a TonoPen XL. |
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