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Medical Forum / General / Vision / May 2007

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Converting "Script" to pure Spherical Equivalent

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otisbrown@pa.net - 26 Apr 2007 04:40 GMT
Converting a prescription to the power I would need in a regular lens
or if someone could
figure it out I would greatly appreciate it.

"Sphere",  Astigmatism

Left  sph -.50  cyl -.75  ax 170

Right  sph -.75 cyl -.75  ax 170

To convert take 1/2 the astigmatic part
and add it to "sph"

for the Left, then

-0.75 / 2 = -0.375

-0.5 -0.375 = -0.875, Spherical Equivalent

You can round this off to -1.0 diopters.

You prescription is weak, with you
Snellen about 20/30 to 20/40.

You can check with your OD to see
if this meets your needs.

Otis
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 27 Apr 2007 00:56 GMT
On Apr 25, 11:40 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:

> You can round this off to -1.0 diopters.

> Otis

you can also round it down to -0.75.

are you trying to overminus everyone?

why do you keep posting here?  you have no academic or practical
training in this subject yet you keep posting and even arguing against
people who are orders-of-magnitude more credible than you.
otisbrown@pa.net - 27 Apr 2007 02:31 GMT
Also, you can "round-down" to -1/2 diopters.

If fact, you might be over-prescribed to a certain extent.

You could check a Snellen and determine your
actual visual acuity.

In fact, during your exam you might have developed
muscle-spasm myopia, which I am told gradually
reduces over time.

Otis

On Apr 25, 11:40 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Converting a prescription to the power I would need in a regular lens
> or if someone could
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Otis
otisbrown@pa.net - 27 Apr 2007 02:35 GMT
In fact, with a prescription that is almost "plano", you might
find that your vision has cleared from the last prescription.

To check, just click on:

http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/oph/ped/IVAC/IVAC.html

And then click on "Display", and read the chart.

Your vision might be better than your "prescription" might
suggest.

Always good to double check these measurements.

On Apr 26, 9:31 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Also, you can "round-down" to -1/2 diopters.
>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 27 Apr 2007 03:06 GMT
On Apr 26, 9:31 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> In fact, during your exam you might have developed
> muscle-spasm myopia, which I am told gradually
> reduces over time.

indeed!  anything that you say that has any ring of validity to it
would have to be something you have been told since your training is
nil and your experience is even worse.  go away old troll.
odtobe - 27 Apr 2007 18:16 GMT
On Apr 26, 9:06 pm, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 26, 9:31 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> would have to be something you have been told since your training is
> nil and your experience is even worse.  go away old troll.

Why would you give this persone the SE? They are not a very good
candidate. The cyl power is equal to or greater than the sphere power!
They will most likely not like this RX. Also with such little cyl why
not Rx it? Edge thickness will not be a problem, and the tolorances
for detectable axis change on this little amount of cyl are rather
large, maening even if you get the cyl axis within about 15-20 degrees
they will be seeing much better than with the spherical eqiv.
otisbrown@pa.net - 28 Apr 2007 03:39 GMT
Dear OD-to-Be,

The person asked for an equation to "simplify" a prescription
contaning both a spherical component, as well as an
astigmatic component.

I provided the correct equation.  The person herself must
decide whether she prefers a -1/2 diopter contact, or
a -1.0 diopter contact, or no contact at all, since
her Snellen (naked eye) would be about 20/40.

For most purposes (except for driving a car) she could
most likely work with no minus lens at all.

The information is provided.  The choice is hers.  If she
wishes -- she will follow your advice.

Otis

> On Apr 26, 9:06 pm, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> large, maening even if you get the cyl axis within about 15-20 degrees
> they will be seeing much better than with the spherical eqiv.
Neil Brooks - 28 Apr 2007 17:07 GMT
On Apr 27, 7:39 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:

> The information is provided.  The choice is hers.  If she
> wishes -- she will follow your advice.

Speaking of providing information ...

Why not provide the information about how you turned your niece into a
myope with a restricted driver's license?

As I always say: you can't have it both ways.  If you claim to have
CAUSED your nephew, Keith's, emmetropia then you must also claim to
have CAUSED your niece's myopia.

Full information really IS a good thing, isn't it?
odtobe - 29 Apr 2007 18:28 GMT
> On Apr 27, 7:39 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Full information really IS a good thing, isn't it?

I'm sorry Otis you're right, information is free and good to give the
patient. But I was under the impression that a DOCTOR has a liscense
to practice medicine. Shouldn't doctors be in the habit of providing
solutions that are going to be the most benifetial to the patient?
Also this person is a rather poor CL candidate, at least for softs.
Might think about RGPs if the K's look correct, but the SE for a spec
lens just doesn't make any sense. They have already chosen the
cylinder lenses in the "SUBJECTIVE" portion of the refration, that's
generally how an RX is finally determined. I understand that giving a
person the SE in a sphere SCL would be nice, BUT NOT IN THIS CASE.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 30 Apr 2007 04:08 GMT
> > As I always say: you can't have it both ways.  If you claim to have
> > CAUSED your nephew, Keith's, emmetropia then you must also claim to
> > have CAUSED your niece's myopia.

yes indeed otis!  I agree whole-heartedly.  if you try to stand-up and
lay claim to Keith as being an example of "plus prevention" then you
must also stand-up and provide an explanation of why is DIDN'T work
for your niece who became myopic despite your treatment!  the reason
for your niece's failure is that refractive outcomes are not affected
in the least by using plus lenses.  that result has been proven in
multiple scientific studies which you seem to ignor.  i'm sure you'll
think of some kind of bullcrap excuse, or perhaps you'll just refuse
to address the question like you always do when you are proven wrong.
a real scientist wouldn't do that, and indeed an honest objective
person of any professional background wouldn't do that-- but Otis
Brown does.  that speaks volumes about your character.

> But I was under the impression that a DOCTOR has a liscense
> to practice medicine. Shouldn't doctors be in the habit of providing
> solutions that are going to be the most benifetial to the patient?

hello odtobe!  perhaps you are not familiar with our resident troll
Otis Brown, engineer.

Otis believes he is an expert in physiological optics and
myopiagenesis even though he has no training, research, or clinical
experience in the topic.  he claims that he has gained insight into
these topics because of a life-long involvement in the field which
includes friendships with many experts.  in fact, when you check up on
his claims by talking to some of these so called "friends", like Dr.
Ted Grosvenor,  they have never heard of Otis Brown and furthermore
they do not believe in any of the outdated concepts that Otis adheres
to.  curious, is it?  Otis likes to name-drop.  perhaps once these
experts studied the possibility that plus lenses might reduce
accommodative strain and minimize myopia development, or that
excessive minus lens prescriptions might increase myopia, but being
objective men of science they have discarded that theory because it
was disproven decades ago.  But Otis is stuck in the past and will not
accept the pile of research data that clearly demonstrates that myopia
development is a little more involved than his simple-minded scheme.

And when you confront Otis with straight-out scientific proof that his
theory is wrong he ignors you or either he instead offers an anecdotal
story about "Mike" or "Jane" or some such other person he has talked
to that relays a personal story that for some reason he holds in
higher esteem to real objective scientic studies.  in the past, one of
his so-called personal success stories actually saw what he was
writing and confronted Otis on this newsgroup.  He relayed that Otis
was misrepresenting his personal experience as proof that plus lens
therapy actually worked in his case when in fact the opposite was
really true-- his myopia persisted.

yet still, despite public humiliation, otis fights on.  he is nothing
if not persistent.  he tries to describe a difference between
"medical" scientific studies and "engineering" scientific studies that
is puzzling and ridiculous.

as clueless as Otis is he is actually a kind of fixture around this
newsgroup.  don't try to reason with him-- his mind is made up and he
doesn't want to be confused by the facts.

> Also this person is a rather poor CL candidate, at least for softs.
> Might think about RGPs if the K's look correct, but the SE for a spec
> lens just doesn't make any sense. They have already chosen the
> cylinder lenses in the "SUBJECTIVE" portion of the refration, that's
> generally how an RX is finally determined. I understand that giving a
> person the SE in a sphere SCL would be nice, BUT NOT IN THIS CASE.

actually I am not in complete agreement with this statement.  many
patients with this low level of astigmatism don't really notice a
significant improvement in their VA when you correct their
astigmatism.  the patient may achieve 20/20- with a spherical
correction and get only a slight boost from additionally correcting
the cylinder component. sometimes that boost is visually insignificant
to the patient.  -0.75 cyl just isn't that much.

and it is obvious that RGPs are going to be less successful than
disposable SCL.  not due to any optical considerations but due to the
fact that 80-90% of patients who first put in an RGP and not happy
with the comfort of the lens regardless of whether they can see a
sharp image or not.  trying to fit such a patient in an RGP is a good
way to ensure that the patient will not return to your office for
their next appointment, or for any appointments, in the future.

in this case I would usually give the patient a trial pair (disposable
SCL) of spherical lenses and a trial pair of toric lenses and ask them
to compare them at home for approximately a week and then return to my
office for a check appointment wearing their favorite pair.

this is just my way of doing it, and what my personal experiences are.

cheers.
otisbrown@pa.net - 30 Apr 2007 05:02 GMT
Dear Majority-opinion PClar,

>From long experience with ODs and MDs, I learned to
RESPECT the second-opinion regarding the minus.

I understand how EASY it is to impress a person with it.

Be equally, avoiding the minus has a long history.

Here is a recommendation by Dr. David Guyton,
about avoiding the use of the minus:

    "For my young patients with simple myopia, I suggest they
leave their distance glasses off while reading, something I have
always done myself.  A child who cannot see the board at school,
for example, should wear glasses to see the board, but remove them
when reading a book or writing."

You keep on insisting that the minus "is perfectly safe", and
that is your OPINION.  I  happen to disagree with your OPINION.

You tell me that a -3 diopter lens has NO EFFECT on the
refractive STATE of the fundamental eye.  I take your
word -- but I run the scientific test.

In fact, when you place a -3 diopter lens on the eye, it will
respond by changing its refractive STATE by an averge
of -2 diopters in less than six months.

So the subject remain a matter of your BELIEF that a population
of natural eyes are NOT DYNAMIC, and the minus is "perfectly safe".

Sorry you are disconnected from the second opinion regarding
the proven behavior of the natural eye.

Otis

On Apr 29, 11:08 pm, p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > As I always say: you can't have it both ways.  If you claim to have
> > > CAUSED your nephew, Keith's, emmetropia then you must also claim to
[quoted text clipped - 88 lines]
>
> cheers.
otisbrown@pa.net - 30 Apr 2007 05:15 GMT
Here are the scientific facts, RESPECTING the natural
eye as a dynamic system:

http://www.geocities.com/otisbrown17268/FundEye.html

I am certain you will invent "stories" to "explain away" these
direct scientific facts, to justify your majority-opinion.

But that is exactly why there is a honest second opinion
stated at:

www.chinamyopia.org

Scientific honesty would perhaps help the parents
understand the necessity of insisting that their children
keep their NOSE off that page.  That would be
the first step in a PREVENTIVE program.

But I truly admit how difficult it is to PRY a child's
nose off that page.  In fact he induces this negative
refractive STATE by actions of that nature.

Best,

Otis

On Apr 30, 12:02 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Majority-opinion PClar,
>
[quoted text clipped - 130 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ms.Brainy - 30 Apr 2007 06:00 GMT
On Apr 29, 9:02 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Dear Majority-opinion PClar,
>
[quoted text clipped - 130 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Otis Dear,

I don't subscribe to the notion that anecdotal "evidence" as a
scientific proof, but since you do, here is one:

I got my first eyeglasses when I was 13.  They were -1.5D for each
eye.  I did not use them full time, only when I needed to see afar.  I
read and did my homework without glasses.  My myopia was not cured,
and in fact increased.  Eventually I wore them almost full time.  I
had a friend with a similar condition, although she resisted her
glasses longer than me (for vanity reasons).  Would you suggest that
both I and my friend were mutants and the exception to your theory?  I
must admit that I never used the "plus" because I could read fine
without glasses.

You ignored my previous response to your messages, perhaps you can
respond to this one?
Neil Brooks - 30 Apr 2007 06:57 GMT
> You ignored my previous response to your messages, perhaps you can
> respond to this one?

Ms. Brainy:

Otis doesn't ever respond to direct questions, particularly those that
area legitimate, relevant, coherent, or threaten to highlight his
idiocy ... like yours.

As you were....
odtobe - 30 Apr 2007 09:25 GMT
> > You ignored my previous response to your messages, perhaps you can
> > respond to this one?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> As you were....

p.clar thanks for the update. I have read some of Otis' post in the
past, but never had a direct confrontation with him. Thanks for
bringing me up to speed. I would have to agree with you regarding
RGPs :-), but you can't altogether discount them as a posibillity
dispite poor first impressions. However, you are probably correct in
that RGPs are considered after SCLs. But hey, I'm still a student, we
are a little more optomistic in the educational rhelm.

Thanks,
odtobe
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 30 Apr 2007 12:29 GMT
On Apr 30, 12:02 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:

> You tell me that a -3 diopter lens has NO EFFECT on the
> refractive STATE of the fundamental eye.  I take your
> word -- but I run the scientific test.

really?  please tell me about the scientific test that you ran.  you
said that you ran it so tell me how you set it up and tell me the
results.

I don't want to hear you rehash an old scientific study run by
somebody else on lenses sutured full-time to a monkeys eye (which by
the way is animal cruelty).  I want to hear about tests YOU ran (just
like you said) on humans.  Excessive minus lenses HAVE been applies to
human eyes and found to have no effect.  Its published.  Please tell
us YOUR results.

> So the subject remain a matter of your BELIEF that a population
> of natural eyes are NOT DYNAMIC, and the minus is "perfectly safe".

I know what is dynamic about the human eye.  You don't.
One thing is for sure-- your brain is not dynamic.  you are unable to
read scientific studies and understand their consequences and
limitations.

> Sorry you are disconnected from the second opinion regarding
> the proven behavior of the natural eye.

really?  what is proven about the human eye that supports your opinion
(not called the second opinion, but really Otis' personal opinion)?
Mike Tyner - 30 Apr 2007 14:54 GMT
> You keep on insisting that the minus "is perfectly safe", and
> that is your OPINION.  I  happen to disagree with your OPINION.

No, you disagree with studies that compared children wearing glasses with
children who don't. They got nearsighted at the same rate.

> You tell me that a -3 diopter lens has NO EFFECT on the
> refractive STATE of the fundamental eye.  I take your
> word -- but I run the scientific test.

Fraudulent assertion. You have not run any tests. Instead, you ignore the
scientific tests that HAVE been done.

> In fact, when you place a -3 diopter lens on the eye, it will
> respond by changing its refractive STATE by an averge
> of -2 diopters in less than six months.

Fraudulent assertion. -3 myopes who wear lenses do NOT become -5 myopes in
less than six months. When you claim that they do, you sound foolish.

> So the subject remain a matter of your BELIEF that a population
> of natural eyes are NOT DYNAMIC, and the minus is "perfectly safe".

Strawman argument.

> Sorry you are disconnected from the second opinion regarding
> the proven behavior of the natural eye.

And you are disconnected from the facts.

-MT
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 01 May 2007 04:09 GMT
> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> -MT

Otis-- where are you?
Why do you always disappear when its time to answer the hard
questions?
Tell us about your results.  No anecdotal stories, or quotes from
famous researchers whom you claim to know but really don't.  No
putting words in anyone's mouth about "box camera model" or "static
eye" blah blah blah.  Just tell us the results of your study which
shows that -3 diopter lenses cause humans to develop myopia.
What journal have you submitted it to?
. . . . . .
. . . . . .
ah . . . Otis? ... are you there?
 
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