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Medical Forum / General / Vision / March 2007

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Want to try Dr. Bates theory

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cdelet@hotmail.com - 16 Mar 2007 19:18 GMT
Hi everyone,

I'm in my 40s and can not see far distance (-2.75) vision. I really
hate wearing my glasses and to scared to have laser done to my eyes so
I thought maybe I can try something more natural if I can fix / even a
little my eyes vision.

I read the Dr. Bates book but not to sure are a few things.

1. He talks about the relaxing of the eyes and I'm sure this can not
do anything bad to my eyes and I think it is a very nice relaxing
practice.  But how offen should I do it per day (he stats you need to
see just black (really black and alos try to picture a letter)?  is
this correct.

2.  Look at a letter (contour shape etc)  on a wall for a few minutes
and then look far.  AGain how close should the letter be and how offen
etc.

Is there anyone that has tried this and it did work for them?
Is there any danger of doing this?

Would really appreciate it someone can get back to me .

Thanks for your time.
Mike Tyner - 16 Mar 2007 19:49 GMT
> Is there anyone that has tried this and it did work for them?

According to Dr. Bates, hundreds and hundreds. Nobody else has been that
successful.

> Is there any danger of doing this?

No. The only dangerous recommendation appears in the earliest editions -
don't stare at the sun.

Of course, there is the danger that you might learn to think as Bates did,
and think his anecdotes are acceptable proof of science. Reader beware.

-MT
otisbrown@pa.net - 16 Mar 2007 20:05 GMT
Dear Friend,

The ODs posting here think that Bates is a "joke".

I would suggest clicking on this site for an
more open-minded review of Bates and
other second-opinion methods of prevention.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/i-see/

They will be more supportive of you desire
to clear your Snellen.

Enjoy,

Otis

On Mar 16, 1:18 pm, cde...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Thanks for your time.
Neil Brooks - 16 Mar 2007 20:08 GMT
On Mar 16, 11:05 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:

> The ODs posting here think that Bates is a "joke".

That's not what I read.

The OD's (et al) here think that YOU are a joke, Otis.  Please don't
read any more into it than that.
Mike Tyner - 16 Mar 2007 20:32 GMT
> The ODs posting here think that Bates is a "joke".

Only the ones who read the book.

> I would suggest clicking on this site for an
> more open-minded review of Bates and
> other second-opinion methods of prevention.

Yes, you would suggest that, but as we've seen, you're a fraud.

-MT
Scott Seidman - 16 Mar 2007 20:54 GMT
cdelet@hotmail.com wrote in news:1174069118.198024.310820
@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm in my 40s and can not see far distance (-2.75) vision. I really
> hate wearing my glasses and to scared to have laser done to my eyes so
> I thought maybe I can try something more natural if I can fix / even a
> little my eyes vision.



If you are -2.75, you'll continue to need glasses to see, even if the Bates
thing manages to work a little (and I doubt it will).

Signature

Scott
Reverse name to reply

serebel - 17 Mar 2007 01:22 GMT
The Bates method works in parting a fool and his/her money.
otisbrown@pa.net - 17 Mar 2007 05:02 GMT
Of course, please read Bate's original report:

http://central-fixation.com/batesmed/myopiaprevention.htm

And make up your mind accordingly.

And if you would like second-opinion advice, why
not check with optometrists who have used Bates
and other methods to clear their vision from
-2.75 diopters (and worse) to normal.  See:

http://www.optometrists.org/Boston/articles.html

for details.

The majority-opinion ODs on this site believe that
nothing affects the refractive STATE of the eye -- ever.

If you believe them, then you can forget clearing your
vision by these essentially preventive methods.

Be wise.

Think and review these facts for yourself.

On Mar 16, 1:18 pm, cde...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Thanks for your time.
Neil Brooks - 17 Mar 2007 05:27 GMT
On Mar 16, 8:02 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:

> The majority-opinion ODs on this site believe that
> nothing affects the refractive STATE of the eye -- ever.
>
> If you believe them, then you can forget clearing your
> vision by these essentially preventive methods.

First, you really shouldn't put words in other people's mouths.  It's
a terribly bad habit ... and certainly not your only one.

Second, if all of this works so well, then why are you a -6.00d myope?

Hmm.

> Be wise.
>
> Think and review these facts for yourself.

Amen to that!

[so sorry, C66, but ... that horse ... it's anything but dead ;-)]
Mike Tyner - 17 Mar 2007 18:35 GMT
> Think and review these facts for yourself.

Which facts would that be?

Was it "Only a small part of the phenomena of refractive errors is accounted
for by the inaccuracy of focus"

Or, "the lens is not a factor in accommodation"

Or, "Yet it is to-day a perfectly well-known and undisputed fact that many
persons, after the removal of the lens for cataract, are able to see
perfectly at different distances without any change in their glasses."

Or, "all persons with errors of refraction [have], at frequent intervals,
moments of normal vision when their myopia, hypermetropia, or astigmatism
wholly disappears."

Or, "A sudden exposure to strong light, or rapid or sudden changes of light,
are likely to produce imperfect sight in the normal eye, continuing in some
cases for weeks and months.

Or "Noise is also a frequent cause of defective vision in the normal eye.
All persons see imperfectly when they hear an unexpected loud noise.
Familiar sounds do not lower the vision, but unfamiliar ones always do."

Or, "Women who wear glasses for minor defects of vision often observe that
they are made more or less color-blind by them.

Oh... here's one: "Some patients are so responsive to mental suggestion that
you can relieve their discomfort, or improve their sight, with almost any
glasses you like to put on them."

-MT, reprinted
otisbrown@pa.net - 17 Mar 2007 21:13 GMT
> <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> are likely to produce imperfect sight in the normal eye, continuing in some
> cases for weeks and months.

Dear Mike,

CHANGE is always difficult for medical people.
We all understand AND RESPECT that issue.

But there is a second-opinion, that a negative
refractive STATE of the natural eye can be
prevented.

Even your fellow optometrists support that
second-opinion perspective.

http://www.optometrists.org/Boston/articles.html

The fact that you don't understand the preventive
second-opinion is OK.

But just do not deny that some optometrists
support successful clearing of vision with
these preventive measures.

Second-opinion best to you,

Otis

> Or "Noise is also a frequent cause of defective vision in the normal eye.
> All persons see imperfectly when they hear an unexpected loud noise.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> -MT, reprinted
Neil Brooks - 17 Mar 2007 21:30 GMT
On Mar 17, 12:13 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:

> But just do not deny that some optometrists
> support successful clearing of vision with
> these preventive measures.

That brings up an interesting batch of questions:

http://nbeener.com/NDB_OSB_Qs.txt

Care to answer them?
otisbrown@pa.net - 18 Mar 2007 05:08 GMT
Dear Neil,

Why not ask the expert (since you are a layman) how
she did it.

http://www.optometrists.org/Boston/articles.html

The final proof is in her successful clearing of her
vision.

Just click on her site and ask her your questions.

When she responds, please report her expert
advice her on sci.med.vision.

> On Mar 17, 12:13 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Care to answer them?
otisbrown@pa.net - 18 Mar 2007 05:14 GMT
Neil, I would suggest that her credentials exceed your
qualifications.

But, of course this is about the preventive second-opinion.

Since some people are successful with the alternative
methods, your questions are moot.

Best,

Otis

+++++++++++++++

Dr. Antonia Orfield, M.A., O.D., Fellow, COVD
Private Practice in Cambridge, MA617-868-8742
Vision Specialist, Harvard University Health Services
Masters Degree in Education

Articles

SEEING SPACE
Undergoing Brain Re-Programming to Reduce Myopia

Abstract

The author underwent myopia reduction from a spectacle prescription of
-3.87 DS and -3.37 DS to -.50 DS and -.25 DS over a period of seven
years. The essence of the program was passive adaptation to a series
of weaker glasses and better vision in a reverse of the process of
adaptation to stronger and stronger glasses and a more and more warped
space world. General health work including nutrition, exercise, yoga,
outdoor walks, postural training with the Alexander Technique, and
advanced chiropractic were also helpful. The system worked because the
practitioners and patient believed it could be done and did not
overreact to transient bouts of less than 20/20 vision during
adjustment periods. Active therapy was limited to six months of
optometric office training to reduce the last diopter. Home therapy
was monocular only and involved free space motor procedures.

Introduction

    I can still remember discussions with my brother when we first
needed glasses at age 12; long wistful talks about the survival of the
fittest and how we, with our nearsighted genes, were probably only
allowed to survive childhood because of the invention of glasses.
Otherwise, we would be run down by trucks or eaten by lions. Now,
though, with our ophthalmic crutches we myopes could all go forth and
multiply. That was evidently the reason that more and more of us
appeared every year wearing glasses. Or was it? Yet when I told my
ophthalmologist that surely God had not intended that evolution should
lead to a human race so rampantly nearsighted, he assured me that
whether God intended it or not, that was the way things were and
anyone who said otherwise was a quack. I wasn't convinced, but
gradually, as I lost more and more control of my vision, I started to
believe him.

    Many years later, when I went through a visual retraining program
that reduced my then nearly -4.00 DS, OU prescription to practically
nothing, I knew that ophthalmologist was wrong. Nevertheless, there
are an estimated 60 to 80 million myopes in this country,1,2 most of
whom go through similar experiences with no better help than I had.
The purpose of this article is to suggest that this does not have to
happen. It will address three topics: 1) the space changes that occur
as one slips into myopia when no intervention is attempted, 2) the
type of whole body and brain re-programming that can reverse the
myopic process, and 3) how an experience of learning to see space
again shapes one's approach to treating nearsighted patients. A second
article in a subsequent issue suggests a theoretical basis for
understanding why myopia reduction of this kind works. It can be found
in recent brain research on neuro-programming, plasticity, visual
pathways, visual development, visual memory, and neuro-rehabilitation.

    Functional myopia is not just an imbedded accommodative spasm3
and it is not just enlargement of eyeballs.2 It is a reflection of the
shrinking of the brain's space world by closure of the periphery,
first by stress,4 and then by errors in spatial judgment induced by
minus lenses. It is easy to observe this in children who are plunging
deeper and deeper into nearsightedness. What has happened is that
their space world has shrunk down to primarily central vision, so they
cannot judge distances. The lenses induce such warped vision in the
periphery that their brains have to screen it out. While stress and
poor visual skills, nutritional sins, and hereditary tendencies may
have been the initial cause of their reduced periphery and acuity, the
lenses deepen their dislocation in space. Lacking the periphery and
experiencing the side effects of virtual images, they can no longer
judge how far is far or where to look. So, naturally, they cannot see
the chart clearly, and they frantically accommodate and demand more
and more minus in their lenses.
Neil Brooks - 18 Mar 2007 06:02 GMT
On Mar 17, 8:14 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:

> Neil, I would suggest that her credentials exceed your
> qualifications.

As always, nothing but a useless swipe by somebody incapable of
defending his positions.....
Neil Brooks - 18 Mar 2007 06:14 GMT
On Mar 17, 8:14 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Neil, I would suggest that her credentials exceed your
> qualifications.

Also, Uncle Otie ... she doesn't seem to agree with you ... in any
way, shape, or form, so ... why are you hiding behind her, anyway?

C'mon, Uncle Otie.  Take a risk.  Answer the questions....

http://nbeener.com/NDB_OSB_Qs.txt

It'll do you some good.
Neil Brooks - 18 Mar 2007 06:00 GMT
On Mar 17, 8:08 pm, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Why not ask the expert (since you are a layman) how
> she did it.
>
> http://www.optometrists.org/Boston/articles.html

Well, I guess that'd be because ... SHE isn't here pimping her theory
as science.

You, OTOH, are.

So ... why don't YOU answer them?
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 18 Mar 2007 05:50 GMT
On Mar 17, 12:02 am, "otisbr...@pa.net" <otisbr...@pa.net> wrote:
> Of course, please read Bate's original report:
>
> http://central-fixation.com/batesmed/myopiaprevention.htm
>
> And make up your mind accordingly.

well, of course you could read the current scientific literature that
shows that virtually ALL myopia prevention methods (myopes reading
without glasses, children wearing bifocals, under-correction of myopic
prescriptions, etc) have been proven in controlled, statistically-
valid studies to be ineffective.

however that never stops the poster named Otis Brown from recommending
such methods.  none of the other reasoning, thinking people who post
here, whether they be eye doctors or simply halfway intelligent
laypersons, can understand why Otis won't accept scientific facts but
instead clings to old disproven theories written by long-dead
optometrists.

don't waste your money and time on bates.  your eye is not going to
get smaller, which is what it would take to eliminate your myopia, no
matter how much "relaxation" you do!
John H. - 17 Mar 2007 11:29 GMT
Did me the world of good. Was prescribed very weak glasses in my early 20's,
went to the library, only found one book, "Better Eyesight Without Glasses",
didn't know anything about Bates (thank heavens!), did the exercises then
realised it was about a "philosophy" of seeing. Since then I have never been
prescribed glasses, am 48, not presbyope yet but getting there, have 6\5+
visual acuity, every specialist I've seen says given that I have optic nerve
damage, exotropia, third nerve palsy, monocular vision(only finger vision in
one eye), it is a bloody miracle I see as well as I do.

However, Bates was really over the top as are many of his adherents. You can
try Bates, my situation is unique so not applicable to everyone, but if you
listen to many here you may be put off Bates. Try it, try it properly, and
see what happens. There are thousands of people out there who have used
Bates methods to good effect. If it works for you too hell with the
established view. If it doesn't, to hell with Bates!

John.

> Hi everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Thanks for your time.
 
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