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Medical Forum / General / Vision / December 2006

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Long Sighted to Short Sighted

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Simon Dean - 11 Dec 2006 13:26 GMT
Is Otis's prediction coming true?

Is close work really affecting my eyes?

Optician said Im slightly short sighted now.

In the course of one and a half years, my vision has changed slightly
from being hyperopic to myopic.

I obviously realise that it could just be very slightly oversensitive
equipment/me/whatever, and it's nothing to worry about. At the same
time, hoping that it's not the start of a downward trend.

Obviously thyroid thoughts come into it too... Wonder if Im now
overmedicated?

April 2002:
Right Distance  +0.50 Sph, -0.25 Cyl, 130 Axis
Left Distance +0.50 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 30 Axis

May 2004:
Right Distance ~ Sph , -0.25 Cyl 130 Axis
Left Distance ~ Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 25 Axis

May 2005:
Right Distance +0.50 Sph, -0.75 Cyl, 135 Axis
Left Distance +0.75 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 35 Axis

December 2005:
Right  Distance ~ Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 135 Axis
Left Distance ~ Sph, -0.25 Cyl, 30 Axis

December 2006:
Right Distance -0.25 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 140 Axis
Left Distance -0.25 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 35 Axis
John H. - 11 Dec 2006 13:55 GMT
Close work may have very significant affects on vision. I only found
the below recently and it relates directly to me because I do mountains
of reading, or was until about 4 years ago when my vision went bye bye.
Also, I have ptosis in my good eye, the left one, which is significant
in light of below.

Have you had a thyroid function tested?

John.

http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/061027_eyelid_vision.html
-->
Eyelids Alter Shape of the Eye

The pressure of the eyelid on the eyeball could cause one of the most
common vision problems, new research shows.
The work builds on previous research showing that heavy reading
(http://www.livescience.com/othernews/060718_illiterate_boys.html) can
change the shape of the eye
(http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/051128_eye_works.html) during
the day, temporarily degrading eyesight.
Imperfections in the shape of the cornea
(http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/060719_clear_eyes.html), a
transparent shield that protects and covers the front of the eyeball,
often causes corneal astigmatism. The condition, which affects
somewhere between 33 and 60 percent of all people, can lead to
distorted vision.
The study of 100 normal-sighted young subjects showed that the shape of
the eyelid (http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050725_blink.html)
opening at different angles of gaze affected the shape of the cornea,
says Scott Read of Queensland University of Technology, in Brisbane,
Australia.
"It appears eyelids do play a part in determining the shape of the
cornea," Read said. "One explanation is that pressure from the
eyelids is involved in the cause of corneal astigmatism."
The results, announced last week, were published in the journal
Optometry and Vision Science.
It is still unproven that eyelid pressure definitely causes corneal
astigmatism, Read told LiveScience.
"An important next step is for us to develop an accurate and precise
means of measuring the amount of pressure that the eyelids do exert on
the cornea," he said. Then scientists could link those measurements
with the development of astigmatism.
Astigmatism and corneal shape change a lot in young children and older
people, so Read also plans to study the peepers and lids of those
populations to learn more.
Astigmatism takes a few different forms. One way to think of one form
of it is to envision light
(http://www.livescience.com/technology/050819_fastlight.html) coming
into the eye
(http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/051118_animal_eyes.html) along
two perpendicular axes. With astigmatism, the light along one axis is
more in focus than the light along the other. In other cases, the light
fails to line up with the light-receiving axes in the eye.
Heavy readers, take note: Earlier research by Read and his colleagues
shows that downcast eyelids degrade your vision
(http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050811_attention_problem.html),
pressing against the cornea and worsening eyesight as the day wears on.
People who read or do close work tend to maintain a downward gaze for a
long time, such that the upper eyelid exerts pressure on the cornea and
actually changes the shape of the eyes throughout the day.
The study found that the shape of the cornea changed significantly
throughout the day, with the eyelid pressure forming horizontal bands
of distortion on the cornea where the eyelid was sitting. The cornea
bounced back by morning.
"As these changes appear to be related to forces from the eyelids
themselves and were more marked in people who spent a lot of time
reading in downward gaze, it is certainly one reason why people's
vision may be slightly worse at the end of the day or after doing a lot
of close work," Read said.
"It suggests," he said, "that people should take a short break
from reading or close work
(http://www.livescience.com/technology/051223_future_office.html) at
least every hour."

> Is Otis's prediction coming true?
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Right Distance -0.25 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 140 Axis
> Left Distance -0.25 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 35 Axis
John H. - 11 Dec 2006 13:55 GMT
Close work may have very significant affects on vision. I only found
the below recently and it relates directly to me because I do mountains
of reading, or was until about 4 years ago when my vision went bye bye.
Also, I have ptosis in my good eye, the left one, which is significant
in light of below.

Have you had a thyroid function tested?

John.

http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/061027_eyelid_vision.html
-->
Eyelids Alter Shape of the Eye

The pressure of the eyelid on the eyeball could cause one of the most
common vision problems, new research shows.
The work builds on previous research showing that heavy reading
(http://www.livescience.com/othernews/060718_illiterate_boys.html) can
change the shape of the eye
(http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/051128_eye_works.html) during
the day, temporarily degrading eyesight.
Imperfections in the shape of the cornea
(http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/060719_clear_eyes.html), a
transparent shield that protects and covers the front of the eyeball,
often causes corneal astigmatism. The condition, which affects
somewhere between 33 and 60 percent of all people, can lead to
distorted vision.
The study of 100 normal-sighted young subjects showed that the shape of
the eyelid (http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050725_blink.html)
opening at different angles of gaze affected the shape of the cornea,
says Scott Read of Queensland University of Technology, in Brisbane,
Australia.
"It appears eyelids do play a part in determining the shape of the
cornea," Read said. "One explanation is that pressure from the
eyelids is involved in the cause of corneal astigmatism."
The results, announced last week, were published in the journal
Optometry and Vision Science.
It is still unproven that eyelid pressure definitely causes corneal
astigmatism, Read told LiveScience.
"An important next step is for us to develop an accurate and precise
means of measuring the amount of pressure that the eyelids do exert on
the cornea," he said. Then scientists could link those measurements
with the development of astigmatism.
Astigmatism and corneal shape change a lot in young children and older
people, so Read also plans to study the peepers and lids of those
populations to learn more.
Astigmatism takes a few different forms. One way to think of one form
of it is to envision light
(http://www.livescience.com/technology/050819_fastlight.html) coming
into the eye
(http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/051118_animal_eyes.html) along
two perpendicular axes. With astigmatism, the light along one axis is
more in focus than the light along the other. In other cases, the light
fails to line up with the light-receiving axes in the eye.
Heavy readers, take note: Earlier research by Read and his colleagues
shows that downcast eyelids degrade your vision
(http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050811_attention_problem.html),
pressing against the cornea and worsening eyesight as the day wears on.
People who read or do close work tend to maintain a downward gaze for a
long time, such that the upper eyelid exerts pressure on the cornea and
actually changes the shape of the eyes throughout the day.
The study found that the shape of the cornea changed significantly
throughout the day, with the eyelid pressure forming horizontal bands
of distortion on the cornea where the eyelid was sitting. The cornea
bounced back by morning.
"As these changes appear to be related to forces from the eyelids
themselves and were more marked in people who spent a lot of time
reading in downward gaze, it is certainly one reason why people's
vision may be slightly worse at the end of the day or after doing a lot
of close work," Read said.
"It suggests," he said, "that people should take a short break
from reading or close work
(http://www.livescience.com/technology/051223_future_office.html) at
least every hour."

> Is Otis's prediction coming true?
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Right Distance -0.25 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 140 Axis
> Left Distance -0.25 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 35 Axis
otisbrown@pa.net - 11 Dec 2006 14:11 GMT
Dear Simon,

The second-opinion on the natural eye's performance.

You might enjoy this commentary:

http://www.geocities.com/otisbrown17268/SaveEye.html

As is presented, a positive refractive STATE is considered
"long-sighted".  A negative refractive STATE is "short sighted".

Tragically, no one has ever pointed out to this kid that
the natural eye will change its refractive STATE if he
continues to write and read at 6 inches (-6 diopters) -- as
the second-opinion.

Best,

Otis

++++++++

> Is Otis's prediction coming true?
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Right Distance -0.25 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 140 Axis
> Left Distance -0.25 Sph, -0.50 Cyl, 35 Axis
Mike Tyner - 11 Dec 2006 16:08 GMT
> In the course of one and a half years, my vision has changed slightly from
> being hyperopic to myopic.

The change from May to Dec 2005 was more significant than crossing some
arbitrary line in 06.

No blood sugar problems? No cataracts?

Did you stop reading between May 04 and May 05? :)

-MT
Simon Dean - 11 Dec 2006 16:24 GMT
>>In the course of one and a half years, my vision has changed slightly from
>>being hyperopic to myopic.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> -MT

I was thinking about the change in the whole from between May 2005 to
Dec 2006... which to me, a whole 1D down is a bit disconcerting... I've
never been short sighted before...

No blood sugar problems, no cataracts, Im 29... Regular blood tests for
thyroxine, and Im sure they check other things as well, nothing major
has come to mind.

There's a few things that spring to my mind though...

1) Thyroid conditions... I seem to be particularly sensitive to my
thyroid medication, and so it might be worth getting that re-tested.
I've been taking it for three years, and my vision seems to correlate
with the treatment for that. Just a thought.

2) Doctor said I had a slightly enlarged liver, and some very near
normal values. That means to me, very slightly abnormal values. Quick
reading, would have me believe... Enlarged Liver = Fatty Liver = Insulin
Resistance = Type 2 Diabetes on the horizon

3) Somethings going on here that the docs in all my tests (MRI's,
Migraine Tests, Worth 4 Dot, Bagolini, Maddox, Frisby, Lees Screen,
Mallet et al); are not picking up on - certainly I've been told I have a
4th nerve palsy and my eye motions feel quite apparent when they do the
cover tests, but Im compensating, but of course, whether the
compensating is causing me any great deal of physical or mental stress I
don't know... They did mumble something about fatty tissue around my
orbits on the MRI, but said everything was fine... of course, MRI was
done in September, so three months on...

Thanks
Simon
Simon Dean - 11 Dec 2006 16:35 GMT
>>In the course of one and a half years, my vision has changed slightly from
>>being hyperopic to myopic.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> -MT

Incidentally Mike, Im really bewildered by when Im "decompensating" for
whatever it is Im supposed to be compensating for, I'll assume some kind
of eye alignment/4th Nerve Palsy, then Im really bewildered as to how a
pair of sunglasses or a nice halogen light really makes things, standout.

It's like things become more 3D with depth and clarity.

I forgot to mention when i went for my eye test, about a small concern,
probably not real, but a concern that colours when Im out and about
(like green plants etc), appear washed out and has a grayish hue.

A carefully worn pair of sunglasses though brings out all the colours
with more definition. Things look too cold and clinical without
sunglasses, no heart or warmth. Of course at this stage, anything that
anybody could suggest would be pure speculation, but speculate away.
Robert suggested intraocular light scatter... and some of the pictures
shown of low contrast seemed eerily familiar. I like to look through
some of the potential issues and see if I can check off the tickboxes.

Cya
Simon
Dr Judy - 11 Dec 2006 17:01 GMT
> Is Otis's prediction coming true?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> In the course of one and a half years, my vision has changed slightly
> from being hyperopic to myopic.

Were the various refractions done with cycloplegia?  If not, then a
variation of +/- 0.25 (which is what we see) is nothing to be concerned
about.

Judy
Sherman - 12 Dec 2006 03:50 GMT
Simon Dean says...

> Is Otis's prediction coming true?

> Is close work really affecting my eyes?

> Optician said Im slightly short sighted now.

> In the course of one and a half years, my vision has
> changed slightly from being hyperopic to myopic.

> I obviously realise that it could just be very slightly
> oversensitive equipment/me/whatever, and it's nothing to
> worry about. At the same time, hoping that it's not the
> start of a downward trend.

I started wearing glasses as a teenager, and got
progressively more nearsighted as time went on.  I got all
the way up to -7.50 in my mid 40's.  I've always done a lot
of reading and closeup work.

It's said that myopia is virtually unknown in non-literate
societies, and that idea has led to the inference that
myopia is largely caused by long periods of the strong
accomodation needed for reading and other closeup work.

The same logic says that the above effect can be largely
avoided by using reading glasses for near vision even if you
can still accomodate to read.  The idea is that with strong
reading glasses, the eyes are back at full distance vision
with no accomodation.

So then we would have everyone using reading glasses, or
bifocals, from an early age at an add of like +2.00 or
+2.25, and in theory that would keep them from becoming
myopic.

My myopia started to reverse a couple years after presbyopia
set in, and I started getting an "add" prescription.  My
most recent Rx is -6.00, and as I said in another thread, my
reading glasses are now my computer glasses, so I'm now down
to something like -5.50, I would guess.  I understand this
is fairly common.

I'm not sure I buy the whole theory, but it seems to me that
wearing +2.00 add reading glasses, even at age 29, is not
likely to hurt you.  It might be worth a try.
Neil Brooks - 12 Dec 2006 04:59 GMT
> Simon Dean says...
>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> wearing +2.00 add reading glasses, even at age 29, is not
> likely to hurt you.  It might be worth a try.

Interesting.

You're new here, aren't you ;-)
Sherman - 12 Dec 2006 14:01 GMT
Neil Brooks says...

> Interesting.

> You're new here, aren't you ;-)

Yes I am. Was that a subtle hint to keep my mouth shut
because I'm restating the obvious, as I would know if I had
been here for a while?  :-)
Neil Brooks - 12 Dec 2006 15:38 GMT
> Neil Brooks says...
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> because I'm restating the obvious, as I would know if I had
> been here for a while?  :-)

Not at all.  I would never advocate silence from anybody.  This IS,
however, a forum about the known and proven aspects of "sci" and "med."
You should reed the weekly posting from Bev.

Also, If you search this forum for ... say ... "plus lens" and
"myopia," you'll see that there is a =passionate= advocate who has
lurked/trolled here for years.  He claims to be an engineer, yet

- understands not at all the well-established scientific method

- refuses to answer myriad direct, honest, cogent, and relevant
questions that SHOULD lead a real scientist to re-evaluate his position

- spouts logical fallacy after logical fallacy

etc., etc.

In other words, you've raised THE long-standing hot-button issue of
s.m.v.

We don't seem to have anybody on this forum who is genuinely willing,
or able, to answer the numerous questions that have been repeatedly
raised over the years, so we're left with the Plus Lens Theory being
the stuff of near religious beliefs pressed immutably forward by
conspiracy theorists [1] who have never established a single 'proper'
study that would prove their hypothesis,

Here's what's =known=:

For people with near-point esophoria -- a binocular function issue --
plus lenses can help slow myopia SLIGHTLY.  For people WITHOUT this
readily diagnosable issue, plus lenses CAN and DO induce DOUBLE-VISION
in some people.  This is generally considered a bad thing.  In all
other existing testing (this forum is rife with those citations), it
doesn't help NON near-point esophores and has actually been shown to
HASTEN myopia progression.

The "non-literate" civilization thing has been shot down repeatedly.
Introduced to Western Culture, American Eskimos--the primary focus of
this sort of study--pick up books AND junk food at the same time.
Simple carbohydrates look as guilty as near work (another logical
impediment handily overlooked by our avuncular loon, Mr. Brown).

I'm not in the optical, optometric, ophthalmologic, or otherwise
eye-care business in any way, BUT ... before I recommended a therapy
like plus lenses for the purposes stated here, I'd CERTAINLY recommend
that they be thoroughly evaluated, by a competent optometrist, for
binocular vision function AND appropriate prescription.

Even the guy who runs the linked website realized that--absent prisms
in their plus lenses--some people would develop double vision.  OUR
local troll doesn't bother with that little snipet of information and
has created double vision in probably a dozen people, leading yours
truly to initiate a State of Pennsylvania investigation into
his--presumably illegal--practices of Optometry Sans License :-)

Welcome!

Neil

[1] http://www.myopia.org
Sherman - 12 Dec 2006 17:14 GMT
Neil Brooks says...

>> > Interesting.

>> > You're new here, aren't you ;-)

>> Yes I am. Was that a subtle hint to keep my mouth shut
>> because I'm restating the obvious, as I would know if I
>> had been here for a while?  :-)

> Not at all.  I would never advocate silence from
> anybody.  This IS, however, a forum about the known and
> proven aspects of "sci" and "med." You should reed the
> weekly posting from Bev.

> Also, If you search this forum for ... say ... "plus
> lens" and "myopia," you'll see that there is a
> =passionate= advocate who has lurked/trolled here for
> years.  He claims to be an engineer, yet

> - understands not at all the well-established scientific
> method

> - refuses to answer myriad direct, honest, cogent, and
> relevant questions that SHOULD lead a real scientist to
> re-evaluate his position

> - spouts logical fallacy after logical fallacy

> etc., etc.

> In other words, you've raised THE long-standing
> hot-button issue of s.m.v.

Ok, well it looks like I was just wandering along, not
paying much attention, and stumbled right into the main
battlefield.  Thanks for the heads-up.

Well, just to show you how new I am, I've never heard of the
Plus Lens Theory, although I certainly had heard of the
supposed association of heavy reading with myopia.  And I
was just trying to make sense of the fact that my own myopia
stopped progressing, and began regressing, when I stopped
trying to accomodate.  Of course, I understand that that
could have resulted from any number of unrelated changes as
I got older - in the lens structure, or whatever.

For what it's worth, here's the history of my right eye Rx's
since I began keeping copies.  The left eye has always been
a bit less myopic.

Age       Rx

21      -4.25
27      -4.75
29      -5.50
32      -6.00
36      -6.50
40      -7.00
43      -7.25
44      -7.50
45      -7.75
46      -7.50
50      -6.50
58      -6.00
60      -5.50  (est)

Anyway, I'll try not to spout off again until I've been here
a bit longer.  And since I DO believe in science and
evidence and all that stuff, I'll withdraw my comments to
the OP.

I am curious, however, about the double-vision thing.  Can
you explain how that would be caused by wearing normal
reading glasses at, say, +2 add?  Assuming that the centers
were properly placed at the IPD for close-up convergence, I
don't see why reading glasses would lead to double-vision
since the eyes should be converged the same whether you're
accomodating or not.  And, what does adding prism do - move
you back out to distance convergence?
otisbrown@pa.net - 12 Dec 2006 17:33 GMT
Dear Sherman,

Yes, the preventive second-opinion is a "hot button" topic on SMV.

Just to be clear, some ODs have their children wearing
a plus for reading -- to avoid entry into myopia.  See:

www.chinamyopia.org

Others LOVE that minus lens and its "instant" effect,
ergo, the majority opinion.

Neither is right or wrong as such -- it is just that
each OD sees this situtaion differerently.

I prefer to review the facts myself -- and not
be TOLD what the facts are.  See:

http://www.geocities.com/otisbrown17268/DynamicEye.html

And enjoy,

Otis

> Neil Brooks says...
>
[quoted text clipped - 76 lines]
> accomodating or not.  And, what does adding prism do - move
> you back out to distance convergence?
Neil Brooks - 12 Dec 2006 17:43 GMT
> Dear Sherman,
>
> Yes, the preventive second-opinion is a "hot button" topic on SMV.
>
> Just to be clear, some ODs have their children wearing
> a plus for reading -- to avoid entry into myopia.  See:

Sigh.

ONE, Otis, and he offers NO evidence that it's doing anything.  YOU
have a nephew and a niece who both used your method.  One is puh-lenty
myopic now to require DMV restrictions.  Crashing failure, that, but
you won't admit.....

> Others LOVE that minus lens and its "instant" effect,
> ergo, the majority opinion.
>
> Neither is right or wrong as such -- it is just that
> each OD sees this situtaion differerently.

Yeah: they use the scientific method and evidence-based medicine.  You
use faith and vehemence of assertion, coupled with a wellspring of
logical fallacies.

> I prefer to review the facts myself -- and not
> be TOLD what the facts are.  See:

As if you'd ever listen anyway....

How are SALES of YOUR and STEVE LEUNG's books coming anyway?
Dan Abel - 12 Dec 2006 17:51 GMT
> Dear Sherman,
>
> Yes, the preventive second-opinion is a "hot button" topic on SMV.
>
> Just to be clear, some ODs have their children wearing
> a plus for reading -- to avoid entry into myopia.  See:

When you say "some" do you really mean "one"?  Tell us their names.

> I prefer to review the facts myself -- and not
> be TOLD what the facts are.  See:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/otisbrown17268/DynamicEye.html

Does this mean that you are going to tell yourself what the facts are?
Neil Brooks - 12 Dec 2006 17:40 GMT
> I am curious, however, about the double-vision thing.  Can
> you explain how that would be caused by wearing normal
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> accomodating or not.  And, what does adding prism do - move
> you back out to distance convergence?

First, we're getting above my pay-grade here.  I'm just a patient with
a pretty bad combination of refractive error, accommodative
dysfunction, binocular dysfunction and ocular surface disorders (I'm
easily beaten in any sport involving a ball!), but....

The "near vision triad" is a physiologically coupled triumvirate of
accommodation, convergence, and puillary mydriasis.  You can't really
separate them.  How CLOSELY bound this relationship is varies from
person to person, based on such things as AC/A ratio, CA/C ratio,
vergence amplitudes, accommodative amplitudes, etc.

IF, however, you "disrupt" this relationship where it's NOT indicated
(say, by giving plus glasses to somebody who's not farsighted), then
you relieve accommodation AND lower the convergence stimulus.  This can
cause problems ... if not in everybody.

Here's an example: I was leaving, in July, for four months bopping
around Europe.  I asked my strabismus ophthalmologist to prescribe
readers for me.  I don't have them because--essentially--I don't read.
I wanted something for maps and travel guides.  He took all the
appropriate measurements and prescribed near vision glasses with about
+2d and prisms.

They worked well, BUT ... when I REMOVED them ... I was seeing double.
He pulled the plug on any further use of the readers.  I'm NOT
baseline; I'm an outlier, BUT ... when "you" futz with the
near-vision-triad in people whose accommodative and binocular function
status has not been evaluated, you CAN cause this problem.

One of the myriad legit questions that Mr. Brown won't answer is this:
he constantly tells us what happens to the eyesight of monkeys
who--while they don't NEED glasses--are GIVEN glasses.  The question
that =I= pose is this: how can you feel safe in extrapolating that the
same results occur when glasses are APPROPRIATELY prescribed to
somebody with refractive error.

The WAY I've chosen to pose this question, of late, is to ask him to
inject his heart with high-dose epinephrine ... or to inject himself
with insulin.  If he doesn't think that underlying physiology is
relevant, he shouldn't hesitate.  Sadly, I don't think he's taken me up
on this yet.

Don't be afraid to speak up.  Just pointing out the "DANGER: MINEFIELD"
sign that you missed when you showed up :-)

Neil
Sherman - 12 Dec 2006 18:35 GMT
Neil Brooks says...

> First, we're getting above my pay-grade here.

That's never a problem for a dancer.  :-)  Just turn up the
volume.

> The "near vision triad" is a physiologically coupled
> triumvirate of accommodation, convergence, and puillary
> mydriasis.  You can't really separate them.  How CLOSELY
> bound this relationship is varies from person to person,
> based on such things as AC/A ratio, CA/C ratio, vergence
> amplitudes, accommodative amplitudes, etc.

I got all of that except the "etc."  Well, maybe not quite
all of it.  But I get the idea.  The brain is accustomed to
converging and accommodating and, uh, mydriasising at the
same time, and it's not nice, or may not be nice, to fool
with Mother Nature.

> Don't be afraid to speak up.  Just pointing out the
> "DANGER: MINEFIELD" sign that you missed when you showed
> up :-)

Yes, I did indeed miss that sign.  Probably need new
glasses.
Dan Abel - 12 Dec 2006 17:54 GMT
>  >> Yes I am. Was that a subtle hint to keep my mouth shut
>  >> because I'm restating the obvious, as I would know if I
>  >> had been here for a while?  :-)

I think it's pretty common for myopes to get more myopic with age, and
then at some point get less myopic.  It certainly happened with me.  At
least until I got cataract.
Neil Brooks - 12 Dec 2006 17:59 GMT
> >  >> Yes I am. Was that a subtle hint to keep my mouth shut
> >  >> because I'm restating the obvious, as I would know if I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> then at some point get less myopic.  It certainly happened with me.  At
> least until I got cataract.

Dan,

Perhaps it would be good to clarify, for Sherman, whether you have
"natural" eyes, "dynamic" eyes, or "fundamental" eyes.

I always forget.

Neil
Dan Abel - 12 Dec 2006 20:28 GMT
> > >  >> Yes I am. Was that a subtle hint to keep my mouth shut
> > >  >> because I'm restating the obvious, as I would know if I
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> I always forget.

I forget.

:-)
 
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