Medical Forum / General / Vision / November 2006
magnified vision with polycarb glasses
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dill - 13 Nov 2006 16:31 GMT My RX: -7.75, -1.00 x 010 -7.50, -1.00 x 175
My old glasses were on a 1 base curve high-index (1.67) in -8.00 and -8.25. The OD recommended polycarb for the new glasses. The lab made the new ones 1 base curve on right lens and 2 base curve on left lens. I finally had to return them because it seemed like I was viewing out of a magnified fishbowl and I felt like I was walking up a ramp. The OD was adamant they were correct for me.
I went to another lens lab. They recommended a 1 base curve for both lenses in a 1.67 high index material. I can see fine out of these glasses.
My question for future reference: is it the lens material or the base curve that created the distortions I experienced? Thanks, Dill
Robert Martellaro - 13 Nov 2006 18:39 GMT >My RX: >-7.75, -1.00 x 010 >-7.50, -1.00 x 175 > >My old glasses were on a 1 base curve high-index (1.67) in -8.00 and >-8.25. The OD recommended polycarb for the new glasses. Why the change?
>The lab made >the new ones 1 base curve on right lens and 2 base curve on left lens. Maybe they didn't have a pair of +1's so they subbed a +2 for one eye. :(
The base curve in this Rx should be the same in both eyes.
>I finally had to return them because it seemed like I was viewing out >of a magnified fishbowl Move the lenses closer to the eyes. A different frame may be required.
>and I felt like I was walking up a ramp. Increase the lens tilt. The above will also help.
>The OD >was adamant they were correct for me. Find a new OD and/or optician.
>I went to another lens lab. They recommended a 1 base curve for both >lenses in a 1.67 high index material. I can see fine out of these >glasses. The lens manufacturer (not the lab per se) determines the correct base curve.
>My question for future reference: is it the lens material or the base >curve that created the distortions I experienced? Mostly the lens position.
>Thanks, Dill Your welcome.
Robert Martellaro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Optician/Owner Roberts Optical Wauwatosa Wi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
Mark A - 13 Nov 2006 19:30 GMT > My RX: > -7.75, -1.00 x 010 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > curve that created the distortions I experienced? > Thanks, Dill It is the material. Polycarb is crap.
Many ODs on this forum claim that it is extremely rare for patients to complain about polycarb, but here is proof. Lots of other proof in the archives of this group.
William Stacy - 13 Nov 2006 21:04 GMT I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where the chromatic problems are not as significant. I do use it for kids and adults at risk for lens impacts when the Rxs are low, especially if their insurance covers the poly but not trivex and the patient doesn't want to pay extra (fairly common). Poly is almost as impact resistant as Trivex, and is thinner and in some Rxs is lighter. It also is "dead white" meaning there is no color in the lens as there is in Trivex (a pale greenish).
w.stacy, o.d.
>Many ODs on this forum claim that it is extremely rare for patients to >complain about polycarb, but here is proof. Lots of other proof in the >archives of this group. > > Robert Martellaro - 13 Nov 2006 22:00 GMT >I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where >the chromatic problems are not as significant. Another big concern I have with poly is stress cracks and star cracking around the edges. Very disappointing- on both sides of the dispensing table.
> It also is "dead >white" meaning there is no color in the lens as there is in Trivex (a >pale greenish). I haven't noticed this (I'm red/green deficient though) nor have my clients. Do you see it with both Hoya's Phoenix and Younger's Trilogy?
>w.stacy, o.d. Regards,
Robert Martellaro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Optician/Owner Roberts Optical Wauwatosa Wi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
William Stacy - 13 Nov 2006 23:09 GMT >Another big concern I have with poly is stress cracks and star cracking around >the edges. Very disappointing- on both sides of the dispensing table. > > True. I don't like polys for rimless due to starring, although the labs claim there's less of it nowadays with newer processing techniques?
>>It also is "dead >>white" meaning there is no color in the lens as there is in Trivex (a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >you see it with both Hoya's Phoenix and Younger's Trilogy? > I mostly use a Hoya lab, so I'm sure that's mostly what I get, unless they are substituting. You should be able to see the slight color by laying an untinted poly lens next to an untinted trivex lens on a white piece of paper with strong illumination. It's so faint it might look kind of greyish, but to me (normal color vision) it looks a bit greenish. Polys that haven't been tinted look absolutely colorless to me against white paper. You might be able to see it easier by looking at the edges of the finished lenses.
w.stacy, o.d.
dill - 14 Nov 2006 21:57 GMT Hmm, the OD said the high index have greater tendancy to stress fracture, so he ordered the polycarb. The first set had crack at the top, the second set were broken at the lab, the third set were scratched at the bottom of both lenses. Maybe he had it backwards in his own mind?
> Another big concern I have with poly is stress cracks and star cracking around > the edges. Very disappointing- on both sides of the dispensing table. Robert Martellaro - 15 Nov 2006 19:42 GMT >Hmm, the OD said the high index have greater tendancy to stress >fracture, so he ordered the polycarb. The first set had crack at the >top, the second set were broken at the lab, the third set were >scratched at the bottom of both lenses. They need to find a better lab.
>Maybe he had it backwards in >his own mind? Yup. Furthermore, the problems I see are after a year or so of wear, when they have been exposed to a chemical environment- hairspray, fingernail polish remover, maybe perspiration and body oils.
>> Another big concern I have with poly is stress cracks and star cracking around >> the edges. Very disappointing- on both sides of the dispensing table. Robert Martellaro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Optician/Owner Roberts Optical Wauwatosa Wi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
Anon E. Muss - 14 Nov 2006 06:03 GMT >I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where >the chromatic problems are not as significant. I do use it for kids and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >white" meaning there is no color in the lens as there is in Trivex (a >pale greenish). I had one patient, TODAY in fact, that I switched back from TRIVEX to aspheric polycarbonate.
A 9 year old girl -- about +3.00DS -- she wore aspheric poly for the previous 2 or 3 prescriptions until the last exam, when I switched her to TRIVEX for the usual reason (better optics). She came in today and her mom said she never liked the TRIVEX lenses because her daughter felt they magnified her eyes worse than the aspheric poly, and they were noticably thicker (n=~1.53 vs n=~1.586).
Robert Martellaro - 14 Nov 2006 16:33 GMT >>I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where >>the chromatic problems are not as significant. I do use it for kids and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >felt they magnified her eyes worse than the aspheric poly, and they >were noticably thicker (n=~1.53 vs n=~1.586). Did you use aspheric Trivex? Robert Martellaro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Optician/Owner Roberts Optical Wauwatosa Wi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
Anon E. Muss - 16 Nov 2006 04:58 GMT >>>I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where >>>the chromatic problems are not as significant. I do use it for kids and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Did you use aspheric Trivex? That's what was ordered.
Robert Martellaro - 16 Nov 2006 18:09 GMT >>Did you use aspheric Trivex? > >That's what was ordered. You could clock the lens to see if the BC is flatter but you can't easily determine asphericity. If it really was aspheric trivex then I can't explain the child's reaction except for the change in ocular curve. Don't you just love surprises?
Robert Martellaro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Optician/Owner Roberts Optical Wauwatosa Wi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
William Stacy, O.D. - 15 Nov 2006 03:15 GMT I don't think a +3 poly would magnify significantly less than a +3 trivex. If I'm wrong, tell me how. and they shouldn't be noticeably thicker unless the frame has bigger lenses or the lab screwed up and didn't grind to a thin edge. The differences in thickness AND mag should be negligible.
w.stacy, o.d.
> I had one patient, TODAY in fact, that I switched back from TRIVEX to > aspheric polycarbonate. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > felt they magnified her eyes worse than the aspheric poly, and they > were noticably thicker (n=~1.53 vs n=~1.586). Robert Martellaro - 15 Nov 2006 19:27 GMT >I don't think a +3 poly would magnify significantly less than a +3 >trivex. If I'm wrong, tell me how. and they shouldn't be noticeably >thicker unless the frame has bigger lenses or the lab screwed up and >didn't grind to a thin edge. The differences in thickness AND mag should >be negligible.
>w.stacy, o.d. +3.00D poly 44 eye +5.50 BC .4p hyperboloid aspheric with 1mm ET gives a CT of 2.2mm and a lens height of 3.3mm.
+3.00D trivex 44 eye +7.50BC spherical with 1mm ET gives a CT of 2.4mm and a lens height of 4.5mm. A very sensitive client might notice the difference in lens height and the resultant magnification.
The same trivex lens using a .8p hyperboloid aspherical surface gives a CT of 2.3mm and a height of 3.5mm, almost identical to poly aspheric. To be sure, the ocular curve will be slightly flatter with the higher index poly, the difference is less than 11% and "should" be imperceptible from the clients perspective.
>> I had one patient, TODAY in fact, that I switched back from TRIVEX to >> aspheric polycarbonate. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> felt they magnified her eyes worse than the aspheric poly, and they >> were noticably thicker (n=~1.53 vs n=~1.586). Robert Martellaro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Optician/Owner Roberts Optical Wauwatosa Wi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
William Stacy - 13 Nov 2006 21:30 GMT The old ones had no cyl at all??? If not, that could be part of the problem. As far as using the 2 base on the left lens, that was just wrong and cheap if Robert's guess is right. The stronger lens should be flatter than the weaker lens, unless you have aniseikonia (which I seriously doubt). I'd agree, dump the O.D. and don't trust his Rx either. (having said all that, it's probably the poly causing most of the problem, but is most likely a combo of several factors).
w.stacy, o.d.
>My RX: >-7.75, -1.00 x 010 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mike Ruskai - 14 Nov 2006 12:07 GMT >My RX: >-7.75, -1.00 x 010 >-7.50, -1.00 x 175 > >My old glasses were on a 1 base curve high-index (1.67) in -8.00 and >-8.25. The OD recommended polycarb for the new glasses. The lab made Well, it looks like you're saying your old glasses were overcorrected, to compensate for your astigmatism, while your current pair uses (presumably) the correct power, but with direct astigmatism correction.
That alone could produce a magnification effect, compared with your original glasses.
The actual case is that your lenses are making the world look smaller than it really is. At that strength, things will look about 15% smaller to you than they would to someone without glasses (or to you with contact lenses).
The drop in strength will produce a drop in image scale reduction, which you'll interpret as a magnification.
Assuming the prescription is correct, it's something you just get used to.
 Signature - Mike
Ignore the Python in me to send e-mail.
dill - 14 Nov 2006 21:53 GMT Many thanks to everyone for your feedback. It seems there were several issues that worked together to create the discomfort, including change of lens material (the old ones were high index by unknown manufacturer, the news ones were polycarb by Varilux), different base curves (1.0 to 1.0/2.0), different pupil distances (58 to 57), and new distance rx (down .5 diopter) to get used to.
For the record, the old rx: -8.25, -1.00 x 006 -8.00, -1.00 x 175 base curve 1.0, high index lens, PD 31/27 (I measure 55.5 but see better at 58)
I do not know whether either the new or old lenses were aspheric, but they didn't look alike at all - the new glasses that gave me trouble were much more curved on both surfaces while the old lenses were flatter on both surfaces, even though they have a stronger prescription. So, to me, they looked like entirely different types of lenses, although the OD insisted the new ones were right for me. And, yes, there was a strange color tinge to things.
The one thing the OD did pay attention to was my occupation as a writer, and he recommended I return to an older rx in the -7 range versus the -8 range I've been wearing. (Which, for the record, when they were made, I complained the -8 was too strong for me and made things tiny up close, but the optician from the large chain that I will never use again said that I just needed bifocals, which isn't the case. At any rate, I adapted to my eagle eyes.)
I've learned a lot from this group by reading through the archives. I think there are different schools of thought about the thicker polycarbonate lens material. For me, the flatter high index lenses work best, and now I'll better know what to request.
Thanks again for taking the time to weigh in. dill
> My new RX: > -7.75, -1.00 x 010 > -7.50, -1.00 x 175 1.0 base/2.0 base polycarb, PD 30/27
> My old glasses were on a 1 base curve high-index (1.67) in -8.00 and > -8.25. The OD recommended polycarb for the new glasses. The lab made [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > curve that created the distortions I experienced? > Thanks, Dill
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