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Medical Forum / General / Vision / November 2006

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magnified vision with polycarb glasses

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dill - 13 Nov 2006 16:31 GMT
My RX:
-7.75, -1.00 x 010
-7.50, -1.00 x 175

My old glasses were on a 1 base curve high-index (1.67) in -8.00 and
-8.25. The OD recommended polycarb for the new glasses. The lab made
the new ones 1 base curve on right lens and 2 base curve on left lens.
I finally had to return them because it seemed like I was viewing out
of a magnified fishbowl and I felt like I was walking up a ramp. The OD
was adamant they were correct for me.

I went to another lens lab. They recommended a 1 base curve for both
lenses in a 1.67 high index material. I can see fine out of these
glasses.

My question for future reference: is it the lens material or the base
curve that created the distortions I experienced?
Thanks, Dill
Robert Martellaro - 13 Nov 2006 18:39 GMT
>My RX:
>-7.75, -1.00 x 010
>-7.50, -1.00 x 175
>
>My old glasses were on a 1 base curve high-index (1.67) in -8.00 and
>-8.25. The OD recommended polycarb for the new glasses.

Why the change?

>The lab made
>the new ones 1 base curve on right lens and 2 base curve on left lens.

Maybe they didn't have a pair of +1's so they subbed a +2 for one eye. :(

The base curve in this Rx should be the same in both eyes.

>I finally had to return them because it seemed like I was viewing out
>of a magnified fishbowl

Move the lenses closer to the eyes. A different frame may be required.

>and I felt like I was walking up a ramp.

Increase the lens tilt. The above will also help.

>The OD
>was adamant they were correct for me.

Find a new OD and/or optician.

>I went to another lens lab. They recommended a 1 base curve for both
>lenses in a 1.67 high index material. I can see fine out of these
>glasses.

The lens manufacturer (not the lab per se) determines the correct base curve.

>My question for future reference: is it the lens material or the base
>curve that created the distortions I experienced?

Mostly the lens position.

>Thanks, Dill

Your welcome.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field."
 - Niels Bohr
Mark A - 13 Nov 2006 19:30 GMT
> My RX:
> -7.75, -1.00 x 010
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> curve that created the distortions I experienced?
> Thanks, Dill

It is the material. Polycarb is crap.

Many ODs on this forum claim that it is extremely rare for patients to
complain about polycarb, but here is proof. Lots of other proof in the
archives of this group.
William Stacy - 13 Nov 2006 21:04 GMT
I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where
the chromatic problems are not as significant.  I do use it for kids and
adults at risk for lens impacts when the Rxs are low, especially if
their insurance covers the poly but not trivex and the patient doesn't
want to pay extra (fairly common).  Poly is almost as impact resistant
as Trivex, and is thinner and in some Rxs is lighter. It also is "dead
white" meaning there is no color in the lens as there is in Trivex (a
pale greenish).

w.stacy, o.d.

>Many ODs on this forum claim that it is extremely rare for patients to
>complain about polycarb, but here is proof. Lots of other proof in the
>archives of this group.
>
>  
Robert Martellaro - 13 Nov 2006 22:00 GMT
>I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where
>the chromatic problems are not as significant.  

Another big concern I have with poly is stress cracks and star cracking around
the edges. Very disappointing- on both sides of the dispensing table.

> It also is "dead
>white" meaning there is no color in the lens as there is in Trivex (a
>pale greenish).

I haven't noticed this (I'm red/green deficient though) nor have my clients. Do
you see it with both Hoya's Phoenix and Younger's Trilogy?

>w.stacy, o.d.

Regards,

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field."
 - Niels Bohr
William Stacy - 13 Nov 2006 23:09 GMT
>Another big concern I have with poly is stress cracks and star cracking around
>the edges. Very disappointing- on both sides of the dispensing table.
>
>  

True. I don't like polys for rimless due to starring, although the labs
claim there's less of it nowadays with newer processing techniques?

>>It also is "dead
>>white" meaning there is no color in the lens as there is in Trivex (a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>you see it with both Hoya's Phoenix and Younger's Trilogy?
>  

I mostly use a Hoya lab, so I'm sure that's mostly what I get, unless
they are substituting. You should be able to see the slight color by
laying an untinted poly lens next to an untinted trivex lens on a white
piece of paper with strong illumination.  It's so faint it might look
kind of greyish, but to me (normal color vision) it looks a bit
greenish. Polys that haven't been tinted look absolutely colorless to me
against white paper.  You might be able to see it easier by looking at
the edges of the finished lenses.

w.stacy, o.d.
dill - 14 Nov 2006 21:57 GMT
Hmm, the OD said the high index have greater tendancy to stress
fracture, so he ordered the polycarb. The first set had crack at the
top, the second set were broken at the lab, the third set were
scratched at the bottom of both lenses. Maybe he had it backwards in
his own mind?

> Another big concern I have with poly is stress cracks and star cracking around
> the edges. Very disappointing- on both sides of the dispensing table.
Robert Martellaro - 15 Nov 2006 19:42 GMT
>Hmm, the OD said the high index have greater tendancy to stress
>fracture, so he ordered the polycarb. The first set had crack at the
>top, the second set were broken at the lab, the third set were
>scratched at the bottom of both lenses.

They need to find a better lab.

>Maybe he had it backwards in
>his own mind?

Yup. Furthermore, the problems I see are after a year or so of wear, when they
have been exposed to a chemical environment- hairspray, fingernail polish
remover, maybe perspiration and body oils.


>> Another big concern I have with poly is stress cracks and star cracking around
>> the edges. Very disappointing- on both sides of the dispensing table.

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field."
 - Niels Bohr
Anon E. Muss - 14 Nov 2006 06:03 GMT
>I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where
>the chromatic problems are not as significant.  I do use it for kids and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>white" meaning there is no color in the lens as there is in Trivex (a
>pale greenish).

I had one patient, TODAY in fact, that I switched back from TRIVEX to
aspheric polycarbonate.

A 9 year old girl -- about +3.00DS -- she wore aspheric poly for the
previous 2 or 3 prescriptions until the last exam, when I switched her
to TRIVEX for the usual reason (better optics).  She came in today and
her mom said she never liked the TRIVEX lenses because her daughter
felt they magnified her eyes worse than the aspheric poly, and they
were noticably thicker (n=~1.53 vs n=~1.586).
Robert Martellaro - 14 Nov 2006 16:33 GMT
>>I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where
>>the chromatic problems are not as significant.  I do use it for kids and
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>felt they magnified her eyes worse than the aspheric poly, and they
>were noticably thicker (n=~1.53 vs n=~1.586).

Did you use aspheric Trivex?
Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field."
 - Niels Bohr
Anon E. Muss - 16 Nov 2006 04:58 GMT
>>>I'll jump on poly as being bad too, except for low prescriptions, where
>>>the chromatic problems are not as significant.  I do use it for kids and
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>Did you use aspheric Trivex?

That's what was ordered.
Robert Martellaro - 16 Nov 2006 18:09 GMT
>>Did you use aspheric Trivex?
>
>That's what was ordered.

You could clock the lens to see if the BC is flatter but you can't easily
determine asphericity. If it really was aspheric trivex then I can't explain the
child's reaction except for the change in ocular curve. Don't you just love
surprises?

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field."
 - Niels Bohr
William Stacy, O.D. - 15 Nov 2006 03:15 GMT
I don't think a +3 poly would magnify significantly less than a +3
trivex.  If I'm wrong, tell me how.  and they shouldn't be noticeably
thicker unless the frame has bigger lenses or the lab screwed up and
didn't grind to a thin edge. The differences in thickness AND mag should
be negligible.

w.stacy, o.d.

> I had one patient, TODAY in fact, that I switched back from TRIVEX to
> aspheric polycarbonate.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> felt they magnified her eyes worse than the aspheric poly, and they
> were noticably thicker (n=~1.53 vs n=~1.586).
Robert Martellaro - 15 Nov 2006 19:27 GMT
>I don't think a +3 poly would magnify significantly less than a +3
>trivex.  If I'm wrong, tell me how.  and they shouldn't be noticeably
>thicker unless the frame has bigger lenses or the lab screwed up and
>didn't grind to a thin edge. The differences in thickness AND mag should
>be negligible.

>w.stacy, o.d.

+3.00D  poly 44 eye +5.50 BC .4p hyperboloid aspheric with 1mm ET gives a CT of
2.2mm and a lens height of 3.3mm.

+3.00D trivex 44 eye +7.50BC spherical with 1mm ET gives a CT of 2.4mm and a
lens height of 4.5mm. A very sensitive client might notice the difference in
lens height and the resultant magnification.

The same trivex lens using a .8p hyperboloid aspherical surface gives a CT of
2.3mm and a height of 3.5mm, almost identical to poly aspheric. To be sure, the
ocular curve will be slightly flatter with the higher index poly, the difference
is less than 11% and "should" be imperceptible from the clients perspective.



>> I had one patient, TODAY in fact, that I switched back from TRIVEX to
>> aspheric polycarbonate.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> felt they magnified her eyes worse than the aspheric poly, and they
>> were noticably thicker (n=~1.53 vs n=~1.586).

Robert Martellaro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Optician/Owner
Roberts Optical
Wauwatosa Wi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field."
 - Niels Bohr
William Stacy - 13 Nov 2006 21:30 GMT
The old ones had no cyl at all???  If not, that could be part of the
problem.  As far as using the 2 base on the left lens, that was just
wrong and cheap if Robert's guess is right.  The stronger lens should be
flatter than the weaker lens, unless you have aniseikonia (which I
seriously doubt).  I'd agree, dump the O.D. and don't trust his Rx
either. (having said all that, it's probably the poly causing most of
the problem, but is most likely a combo of several factors).

w.stacy, o.d.

>My RX:
>-7.75, -1.00 x 010
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>  
Mike Ruskai - 14 Nov 2006 12:07 GMT
>My RX:
>-7.75, -1.00 x 010
>-7.50, -1.00 x 175
>
>My old glasses were on a 1 base curve high-index (1.67) in -8.00 and
>-8.25. The OD recommended polycarb for the new glasses. The lab made

Well, it looks like you're saying your old glasses were overcorrected,
to compensate for your astigmatism, while your current pair uses
(presumably) the correct power, but with direct astigmatism
correction.

That alone could produce a magnification effect, compared with your
original glasses.

The actual case is that your lenses are making the world look smaller
than it really is.  At that strength, things will look about 15%
smaller to you than they would to someone without glasses (or to you
with contact lenses).

The drop in strength will produce a drop in image scale reduction,
which you'll interpret as a magnification.

Assuming the prescription is correct, it's something you just get used
to.
Signature

- Mike

Ignore the Python in me to send e-mail.

dill - 14 Nov 2006 21:53 GMT
Many thanks to everyone for your feedback. It seems there were several
issues that worked together to create the discomfort, including change
of lens material (the old ones were high index by unknown manufacturer,
the news ones were polycarb by Varilux), different base curves (1.0 to
1.0/2.0), different pupil distances (58 to 57), and new distance rx
(down .5 diopter) to get used to.

For the record, the old rx:
-8.25, -1.00 x 006
-8.00, -1.00 x 175
base curve 1.0, high index lens, PD 31/27 (I measure 55.5 but see
better at 58)

I do not know whether either the new or old lenses were aspheric, but
they didn't look alike at all - the new glasses that gave me trouble
were much more curved on both surfaces while the old lenses were
flatter on both surfaces, even though they have a stronger
prescription. So, to me, they looked like entirely different types of
lenses, although the OD insisted the new ones were right for me. And,
yes, there was a strange color tinge to things.

The one thing the OD did pay attention to was my occupation as a
writer, and he recommended I return to an older rx in the -7 range
versus the -8 range I've been wearing. (Which, for the record, when
they were made, I complained the -8 was too strong for me and made
things tiny up close, but the optician from the large chain that I will
never use again said that I just needed bifocals, which isn't the case.
At any rate, I adapted to my eagle eyes.)

I've learned a lot from this group by reading through the archives. I
think there are different schools of thought about the thicker
polycarbonate lens material. For me, the flatter high index lenses work
best, and now I'll better know what to request.

Thanks again for taking the time to weigh in.
dill

> My new RX:
> -7.75, -1.00 x 010
> -7.50, -1.00 x 175
1.0 base/2.0 base polycarb, PD 30/27

> My old glasses were on a 1 base curve high-index (1.67) in -8.00 and
> -8.25. The OD recommended polycarb for the new glasses. The lab made
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> curve that created the distortions I experienced?
> Thanks, Dill
 
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