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Medical Forum / General / Vision / October 2006

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The Natural Eye "adapts" its refractive STATE to a "near" environment.

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otisbrown@pa.net - 21 Oct 2006 16:17 GMT
Dear Prevention minded friends,

Subject: Analysis of refractive STATE change in
a school environment -- after 8 years, from
plus to minus as natural process.

I am convinced that Jake Raphaelson was correct -- and convinced
that ONLY you can protect your own children with the plus.

As far as I am concerned, a child with a refractive STATE of
from zero to +1/2 diopter should receive a written notification
of the potential for plus prevention.

At that stage the child would have 20/30 vision or better,
and could wear a +1.0 diopter all the time.

The lens would create 20/60 to 20/70, for a period of time,
but -- with understanding -- the child could wear it all
the time.

[Yes, I KNOW the difficulties.]

But from the primate studies, the refractive STATE will
slowly move positive. And after three or four months
the refractive state would move towards +3/4 to +1 diopters.

[As previously discussed, a +1.5 diopter has been prescribed
for a child.  The only issue is to get the parent to
understand the reason and need for the preventive-plus
at that point.]

This type of result is predictable from the primate studies.

But it would take a wise parent the understand this issue.

The other alternative is to BEGIN the use of a plus
for all close work, and adjusted for the child's
habitual reading distance.

It is easy to say the above, but difficult to implement -- indeed.

+++++++++++++++

I have Fancis Young's records and reports.

The most critical item was to measure 600 some wild monkeys
and establish that they had an average value of +0.7 diopters
with a standard deviation of 0.7 diopters. (Slight round off.)

For all practical purposes that indicates that
positive refractive STATES should never be called "errors"
which can not be the case -- since all normal eye's
have them.

So man, and Eskimos with have positive refractive states
and good distant vision -- provided they live as "hunters".
The gaussian distribution would be the same.

With statistics, there
are always a few exceptions -- but they amount
to maybe 2 percent of the population.

Here is the data on children at age 9 and age 17
from, "Ocular Biometry of Eskimo Families"

Francis Young, George Leary

Reprinted from:

Massin, J. and Poujol, J. (Eds.))
Diagonstica Ultrasonica
in Ophthalmologia,
Paris, Centre National d'Ophthalmologie des
Quinze-vingts, 1973

Here are the numbers:

At Age 9

N = 109

Mean +1.43

SD = 1.40

================

At Age 17

N = 97

Mean = -0.94

SD = 1.97

====================

Calculation:

Z = X(c) - X(t) / Sqrt [ X(c) ^2 / N(c) + X(t) / N(t)

Z = 2.37 / Sqrt [ 1.4 ^2 / 109 + 1.97 ^2 / 97 ]

Z = 9.84

=================

This compares with 95 percent (significant) and
99 percent (highly significant). These values are
1.64 and 2.33.

Virtually certain is anything above 3.9, and this
value is far above that number.

No single study, no one assessment can be
effect.

But over 30 years you would expect that
we could get "smarter" about the need
for plus-prevention at the threshold.

Or at the very minimum, understand the
long-term consequences of rejecting
the preventive plus at the zero to + 1/2 diopter phase.

Perhaps these statistics will help a parent ACCEPT
the need for the preventive plus -- even when
their child as 20/20 and +1/4 diopter.

Below are some commentary by the
majority-opinion ODs for your interest.

Best,

Otis
CatmanX - 22 Oct 2006 02:33 GMT
Blah, blah, blah.

Did you say something Cletis, I sort of fell asleep trying to read this
crap.

dr grant
otisbrown@pa.net - 22 Oct 2006 02:41 GMT
Yes, Faux Dr. Grant.  You were obviously sleeping
throuh algebra -- and much else that is fundamental
to science.

You obvious ignorance of the fundamental eye's proven
behavior is a bad omen.

I only trust people who have an open mind towards
the facts that science provides, rather than
you who choose to ignore all of it -- as you state.

Otis

> Blah, blah, blah.
>
> Did you say something Cletis, I sort of fell asleep trying to read this
> crap.
>
> dr grant
CatmanX - 22 Oct 2006 02:45 GMT
Sorry, sleeping once again Cletis. Could you please provide me with a
few references for "the fundamental eye" and while you are at it, can
you explain the difference between the natural eye and the fundamental
eye. I haven't quite worked the difference out yet.

dr grant
otisbrown@pa.net - 22 Oct 2006 04:14 GMT
Sorry you fall to sleep so soon.  It must be that dark office
that you work in -- where you never see the scientific
light of day.

But, of course, you claim to be a "god", so you
will miss basic scientific truth -- respecting the
natural eye's response to a change in its
average visual environment.

So try to stay awake this time.

Otis

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Subject: Change of refractive STATE -- wild monkeys
compared with laboratory monkeys.

Data collected and published by Dr. Francis Young.

All measurements were OBJECTIVE -- using a retinoscope.

1. Wild Monkeys (The control group)

N = 598 eyes (of wild monkeys) had their refractive state
measured. The refractive state (average) was +0.63. The standard
deviation was 0.72

2. Laboratory Monkeys (The test group)

N = 646 eyes (of inside) monkeys had their refractive state
measured. The refractive state (average) was -0.09. The Standard
deviation was 1.32

In statistical testing you look for confidence levels (that
the natural eye is dynamic.

Levels greater-than 3.9 spell virtual certainty -- that the
fundamental eye is dynamic with respect to a change in its average
visual environment.

Here are the calculations.

The large-scale statistics are:

z = [ Xc - Xt ] / Sqrt [ Sigma(c) ^2 / Nc + Sigma(t) ^2 / Nt ]

z = [0.63 - ( 0.09)] / Sqrt [ (0.72 ^2 / 598) + (1.32 ^2 / 646)]

z = 9.05

The one-tailed "Z" value for 99.8 percent confidence
is 2.88.

This calculated value profoundly exceeds this level of confidence.
Anything above 3.9 is considered a virtual certainty that the
refractive STATE changes as a dynamic and natural process.

Enjoy,

Otis

> Sorry, sleeping once again Cletis. Could you please provide me with a
> few references for "the fundamental eye" and while you are at it, can
> you explain the difference between the natural eye and the fundamental
> eye. I haven't quite worked the difference out yet.
>
> dr grant
Dr. Leukoma - 22 Oct 2006 04:31 GMT
> 1. Wild Monkeys (The control group)

Here we come, walkin'
Down the street.
We get the funniest looks from
Ev'ry one we meet.
Hey, hey, we're the Monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

We go wherever we want to,
do what we like to do
We don't have time to get restless,
There's always something new.
Hey, hey, we're the Monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

We're just tryin' to be friendly,
Come and watch us sing and play,
We're the young gneration,
And we've got something to say.

Any time, Or anywhere,
Just look over your shoulder
Guess who'll be standing there

Hey, hey, we're the Monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.
CatmanX - 22 Oct 2006 07:18 GMT
Crikey Cletis, you really are dumb.

First, there was a change of 0.72D. The results may be that there was
accommodative spasm or anything, not necessarily myopic shift. Young
doing his own measurements is hardly "objective" and you failed to
answer my question "where in the literature does it define and discuss
the FUNDAMENTAL EYE"?

Give us a break, you haven't got anything more than this old,
irrelevant garbage?

dr grant
otisbrown@pa.net - 22 Oct 2006 14:56 GMT
Dear God-grant,

You judgement that the natural eye is NOT DYANAMIC is
clearly the majority-opinion.

The second-opinion is that the fundamental eye is dynamic,
and that the natural eye will change its refracitve STATE
when you:

1.  Place a -3 diopter lens on it (as pure science), and

2.  Will change its refractive STATE (measured objectively
witph a retinoscope and standard methods).

The issue is respecting the natural eye as a dynamic
system in the first place.

This is a scientific argument to represent the eye
as dynamic, versus passive, as an eye that
does not change its refractive state under
objective testing.

But since you do not understand the math associated
with this concept, and only spin dials on your phoropter,
you truly miss the point of scientific testing of this nature.

To understand the concept of this type of concept, I would
suggest that you were taught a box-camera (passive)
paradigm -- which you believe against objective
scientific facts.

The concept that they eye is a dynamic system -- and
tests out that way -- is a dynamic eye paradigm.

For a more complete analysis of this type of intellectual
struggle, I would suggest reading Thomas Kuhn's
excellent book, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".

But of course you never will.

Otis

> Crikey Cletis, you really are dumb.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> dr grant
CatmanX - 23 Oct 2006 13:16 GMT
Look here f.ck-brain. I asked a question and you can't seem to answer
it.

WHERE IN THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE DOES IT DEFINE "THE NATURAL EYE" OR
"THE FUNDAMENTAL EYE".

Answer the bloody question dick-head.

> The second-opinion is that the fundamental eye is dynamic,
> and that the natural eye will change its refracitve STATE
> when you:

Who's second opinion? I am a second opinion expert. My first opinion is
that you are a dickhead. My second opinion is that my first opinion was
right. NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!

> 1.  Place a -3 diopter lens on it (as pure science), and
>
> 2.  Will change its refractive STATE (measured objectively
> witph a retinoscope and standard methods).

Gee that is interesting. Now place a -3.00 lens in front of a -3.00
myope and he will tell you he can now see clearly. Where is your
problem with this?

> The issue is respecting the natural eye as a dynamic
> system in the first place.

Thus a dynamic system will emmetropize from a myopic state, so where is
the problem with glasses, as the eye will correct itself according to
you.

> This is a scientific argument to represent the eye
> as dynamic, versus passive, as an eye that
> does not change its refractive state under
> objective testing.

This is where you show yourself to be a total idiot. The eye changes
accommodative state, not refractive state. The refractive state remains
the same as the overall power of the eye does not change, only the
accommodation. Of course that will depend on whether you choose to push
Bates on us now instead of Young.

> But since you do not understand the math associated
> with this concept, and only spin dials on your phoropter,
> you truly miss the point of scientific testing of this nature.

What maths are you discussing here? The only maths involved is adding
the refractive components of the eye to arrive at a final prescription.

> To understand the concept of this type of concept, I would
> suggest that you were taught a box-camera (passive)
> paradigm -- which you believe against objective
> scientific facts.

Au contraire. I am an accredited expert in behavioural optometry. I am
the guy you keep referring to as the second opinion. I restate, my
second opinion is that you are stupid and can't put an arguement
together.

> The concept that they eye is a dynamic system -- and
> tests out that way -- is a dynamic eye paradigm.

You have yet to show any proof of this. Funnily enough, I spend all day
working with dynamic visual systems, but until you can come up with any
coherant arguement, I will contionue to put you down as the fool you
are.

> For a more complete analysis of this type of intellectual
> struggle, I would suggest reading Thomas Kuhn's
> excellent book, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".

You do not undeerstand the nature of a revolution. First you need to
establish some basis of understanding, then research it and put forward
evidence that is beyond reproach. You have failed to do this.

> But of course you never will.

I don't have to. I am waiting for you to state where the "fundamental
eye" is defined.
 
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