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Medical Forum / General / Vision / October 2006Are $1 glasses harmful?
My Mum who's in her late sixties stocked up on several pairs of reading and distance glasses at the dollar store. They don't give her perfect vision but she thinks it's crazy to spend hundreds for the difference proper prescription lenses would make. Could these cheap lenses be hurting her eyesight? She doesn't really complain of headaches, so I'm assuming they're not causing that sort of problem to her. >My Mum who's in her late sixties stocked up on several pairs of reading >and distance glasses at the dollar store. They don't give her perfect [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >complain of headaches, so I'm assuming they're not causing that sort of >problem to her. No permanent harm. These glasses might be suitable for looking up a phone number but not for extended periods of close tasks. They are not intended to be used for correcting distance vision, especially when driving an automobile. Hope this helps, Robert Martellaro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Optician/Owner Roberts Optical Wauwatosa Wi. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr > My Mum who's in her late sixties stocked up on several pairs of reading > and distance glasses at the dollar store. They don't give her perfect [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > complain of headaches, so I'm assuming they're not causing that sort of > problem to her. Best thing to do is to have her ask her OD. My OD told me that OTC should work for me, despite the vast difference in my eyes at distance. He looked at my OTC glasses, tested me and recommended a slightly different power. He can also advise about using OTC glasses for distance. They aren't designed for that, but may work for your mother anyway. Also, she could ask about cheaper options.  SignatureDan Abel dabel@sonic.net Petaluma, California, USA >> My Mum who's in her late sixties stocked up on several pairs of reading >> and distance glasses at the dollar store. They don't give her perfect [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> complain of headaches, so I'm assuming they're not causing that sort of >> problem to her. I've used them with my contacts for reading since 1999 with no damage that I'm aware of. Anecdotes are not evidence, however. > Best thing to do is to have her ask her OD. My OD told me that OTC > should work for me, despite the vast difference in my eyes at distance. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > He can also advise about using OTC glasses for distance. They aren't > designed for that, but may work for your mother anyway. Even if we're farsighted? The +3.5 cheapies work better than my unaided eye (left needs +5 and nobody sells those), although I really miss the astigmatism correction. Still, If I had stepped on my glasses and had to drive to the optometrist's office, they'd be usable. > Also, she could ask about cheaper options. SignatureCheers, Bev =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to be insane in such a useful way that they can't commit you." -- Mark Edwards On 10/11/06 8:38 AM, in article 1160581134.216076.323710@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward" <penelope@rescueteam.com> wrote: > My Mum who's in her late sixties stocked up on several pairs of reading > and distance glasses at the dollar store. They don't give her perfect [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > complain of headaches, so I'm assuming they're not causing that sort of > problem to her. Probably they are no more harmful than any other glass object that can break and introduce glass shards into the eye. I have difficulty believing that the increase in life expectancy comes from the replacement of glass lenses by plastic. Bill -- Fermez le Bush I also have several of those pairs that I use as a magnifying glass. I dont need them because I am myopic so they dont get used much. Using them for distance and driving? If you can see at least 20/40 with them, you may be legal. However if $100 prescription glasses correct you better, spend the money and use the readers for near work. I also have several of those pairs that I use as a magnifying glass. I dont need them because I am myopic so they dont get used much. Using them for distance and driving? If you can see at least 20/40 with them, you may be legal. However if $100 prescription glasses correct you better, spend the money and use the readers for near work. > On 10/11/06 8:38 AM, in article > 1160581134.216076.323710@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "Lady Penelope [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Probably they are no more harmful than any other glass object that can break > and introduce glass shards into the eye. What, you think the Chinese use actual GLASS in these? > I have difficulty believing that the increase in life expectancy comes from > the replacement of glass lenses by plastic. You don't want to hear about how I rode my motorcycle wearing am open-face helmet and glass sunsensor lenses for decades then... SignatureCheers, Bev =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to be insane in such a useful way that they can't commit you." -- Mark Edwards > My Mum who's in her late sixties stocked up on several pairs of reading > and distance glasses at the dollar store. They don't give her perfect > vision but she thinks it's crazy to spend hundreds for the difference > proper prescription lenses would make. Recently, I downloaded a CD from IPod, and have been listening to it for awhile. The recording sounded kind of muddy. I should say that I have a really good system for music playback, four-way speakers, subwoofers, class A amplifier, etc. Unknown to me, my wife had bought a copy of the same CD. I could hear the difference in quality, immediately. There was more depth, more detail, more precise imaging. Like music, I like my images without ghosts, halos, and chromatic aberration. Or, let's say I notice them. Many people obviously don't, but that doesn't mean I'm going to cave in on the quality issue. Big companies spend millions of dollars to create a better visual experience. DrG On 10/17/06 6:02 AM, in article 1161090152.786555.169850@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "Dr. Leukoma" <drg@leukoma.com> wrote: > Recently, I downloaded a CD from IPod, and have been listening to it > for awhile. The recording sounded kind of muddy. I should say that I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > companies spend millions of dollars to create a better visual > experience. I have purchased second rate recordings at premium prices. It happens. My experience in London has been that the lower the cost of a meal, until it was ridiculously low, the more likely the food was to be better. To the question at hand. The quality of a lens can be measured. I doubt that ophthalmic lens information is readily available. One good measure is the strehl ratio which gives the actual intensity achieved for a focused point of light divided by the theoretical intensity for the same point for a perfect lens. That includes the effects of aberration, scattering, and diffraction. Diffraction should not be a problem for optometry. For positive spherical lenses, that can be measured directly although the methods can be extended to negative and cylindrical lenses as well. MTF, modulation transfer function, is also a good measure of quality. It will quantify the "muddiness" of the optical system. Bill -- Fermez le Bush > I have purchased second rate recordings at premium prices. It happens. My > experience in London has been that the lower the cost of a meal, until it > was ridiculously low, the more likely the food was to be better. Here in Dallas, the quality and the price tend to have some direct relationship. I think that the price of raw ingredients has some bearing, as does the overhead. I found the same to be true in London. I went to top notch restaurants that came highly personally recommended and as a result was not disappointed. Where I did not find this relationship was in the many ethnic restaurants in Chicago. Once an ethnic restaurant "made it big," then the prices went up. But, then they could afford to charge more, so long as the quality is maintained. People don't always go out for the food, they also go out for the experience, atmosphere, etc. I go for the food. Then there are people who just like to find the exception just to prove a point. DrG > On 10/17/06 6:02 AM, in article > 1161090152.786555.169850@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "Dr. Leukoma" [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> companies spend millions of dollars to create a better visual >> experience. They also spend millions of dollars to create a better image of their products. > I have purchased second rate recordings at premium prices. It happens. My > experience in London has been that the lower the cost of a meal, until it > was ridiculously low, the more likely the food was to be better. We have lots of Chinese restaurants in SoCal. Our Chinese friend eats out a lot and tells us when he finds a good one. Here's the cycle: A new restaurant opens up with nice decor, good food and low prices. People flock to the restaurant. The owner starts to cut corners and/or raises the prices. If he doesn't guess REALLY well his kitchen equipment and decor get sold off and the cycle repeats with a new owner. I've purchased lots of second and third and fourth rate stuff at premium prices, enough to realize that for most stuff premium prices are NOT a guarantee of quality, just that you will pay more. I don't think you want to hear about the fancy premium-price tires that the Caddy dealer sold my mom that turned out, within a year, to be obsolete/discontinued Bridgestones with tread bubbles; the dealer washed his hands of the deal, leaving the Bridgestone dealer in the next town with the warranty replacement problem. Quality? Yeah, right. > To the question at hand. The quality of a lens can be measured. I doubt > that ophthalmic lens information is readily available. One good measure is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > MTF, modulation transfer function, is also a good measure of quality. It > will quantify the "muddiness" of the optical system. You can also move the lenses back and forth and up and down and around and around in front of some straight lines in the store and see what happens. Worst case, you can always use them to toast ants. SignatureCheers, Bev ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Linux -- the ultimate freebie! > They also spend millions of dollars to create a better image of their > products. Bev, I am sure you aren't implying that I am incapable of discerning between the substance and the hype....do you? Most of the companies I deal with don't advertise directly to the consumer. They also provide free product to me for my personal use so that I can test it myself. I also have the benefit of years of patient feedback. This is not simply repackaging of old technology. DrG >> They also spend millions of dollars to create a better image of their >> products. > > Bev, I am sure you aren't implying that I am incapable of discerning > between the substance and the hype....do you? Of course not. > Most of the companies I > deal with don't advertise directly to the consumer. They also provide > free product to me for my personal use so that I can test it myself. I > also have the benefit of years of patient feedback. This is not simply > repackaging of old technology. I wish you had left more of my message in -- I'm on someone else's computer right now and can't easily retrieve old stuff. My life experience indicates that goods of all kinds are frequently over-priced (it would be dumb to charge less than people are willing to pay so the optimum strategy is to start at the top and work down) and that attempting to use price as a guide to quality is not all that useful. Moreover, assuming that just because someone went to med school, it doesn't mean he wasn't in the bottom quarter of his graduating class. My former GP retired and handed over (presumably for a price) his patients to one of the group docs, whom I recenly visited for a long-overdue annual checkup. Among the questions I asked was "What kind of specialist should I see who can explain to me why, in spite of an hour a day of aerobic exercise 4 or 5 days a week for 10 years, I seem to exhibit no training effect (I explained a bit further). He said he didn't know and just let it drop. No interest at all in tracking down the answer to my question and getting back to me. I find this unacceptable. My friends don't know either, but they don't charge me (and/or medicare) money to tell me they haven't a clue. Incidentally, several friends who used my previous doctor and were similarly handed over to this turkey said the same thing -- he just couldn't be bothered to investigate anything he didn't know the answer to right off the bat. My point is that where money is involved we consumers are on their own. If companies can price their products starting at the top and work down as needed, it behooves us consumers to buy at the bottom and work up as needed. Trust only enters after it's been proven to be justified. Now I need to find a new turkey... SignatureCheers, Bev (sigless on an alien computer) > >> They also spend millions of dollars to create a better image of their > >> products. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > pay so the optimum strategy is to start at the top and work down) and > that attempting to use price as a guide to quality is not all that useful. Is it correct to call this a "life experience" or is it more of philosophy? I have had the good fortune of having a breadth of life experiences, from manufacturing to engineering to health care profession, and also retail. There is typically some rationale for why things are priced as they are...they either reflect what it costs to manufacture and market, plus any "improvements" along the way....or they reflect scarcity, i.e supply and demand. Having driven all kinds of automobiles, I know that there is a relationship between the cost and the quality of the product. > Moreover, assuming that just because someone went to med school, it > doesn't mean he wasn't in the bottom quarter of his graduating class. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > didn't know and just let it drop. No interest at all in tracking down > the answer to my question and getting back to me. Having a medical degree and a license means that the person has gone through a curriculum and passed the minimum requirements for graduation and practice. It says nothing at all about the character, personality, or whether the individual graduated at the top or the bottom of the class. Your question about the lack of training effect might have been easily answered by a physician who is a sports medicine diplomate, or perhaps even better, an exercise physiologist. But, I know that you are just trying to be funny. > My point is that where money is involved we consumers are on their own. > If companies can price their products starting at the top and work > down as needed, it behooves us consumers to buy at the bottom and work > up as needed. Trust only enters after it's been proven to be justified. I disagree. Companies use all sorts of pricing strategies based upon a number of variables. But, if you think everybody is out to get your money, you have a lot of company. Experience will tell you how much you need to spend to obtain a perceived set of qualities in a good or a service. What I think you are saying is that since you don't expect much, you aren't going to pay much. DrG >>>> They also spend millions of dollars to create a better image of their >>>> products. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > of automobiles, I know that there is a relationship between the cost > and the quality of the product. OTOH, let us compare and contrast the ingredients in cheap vs. expensive cosmetics/toiletries/soaps. There is no way at all for the average shopper to determine whether one formulation is better than another even, in many cases, by trial and error. Is a Mont Blanc pen THAT much better than those really good-feeling PaperMate stick pens that are less than a dime each? A business is in business to make profits. Some do it by marketing to the billions of the great unwashed and some by marketing to those few discerning customers who are willing to pay pots of money for perceived improvements. We get to choose. >> Moreover, assuming that just because someone went to med school, it >> doesn't mean he wasn't in the bottom quarter of his graduating class. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > through a curriculum and passed the minimum requirements for graduation > and practice. Then perhaps the requirements ought to be tightened up a bit. > It says nothing at all about the character, personality, > or whether the individual graduated at the top or the bottom of the > class. Exactly. All I ask of a doctor is that he be a whole lot smarter (or at least more knowledgeable) than I am about things that affect my body. Character and personality are pretty much irrelevant. You hire an expert in a field where you need expertise, and if you don't get it you have a right to bitch. Anybody remember the last time an incompetent doctor/dentist got his license yanked? A local pediatric dentist was on trial for drinking on the job, allowing the untrained receptionist to deliver anaesthesia, putting one of he patients into a coma which ultimately resulted in brain damage AND attempting to hinder the paramedics who were trying to revive her. She got a couple of years of being supervised by another dentist and had to take an anaesthesia course. That one made the newspapers, probably because the mother of the brain-damaged daughter made such a stink about it. > Your question about the lack of training effect might have been easily > answered by a physician who is a sports medicine diplomate, or perhaps > even better, an exercise physiologist. But, I know that you are just > trying to be funny. Yeah, that's kind of what I (a layman) thought. I figured the doc might know somebody. My orthopedic guy understood the problem, even if he found it surprising, and recommended an internist in his own building -- which is unfortunately too far to drive for ordinary purposes. I wasn't trying to be funny. That actually happened. The turkey also refused to refill my friend's thyroid prescription of many years because "he didn't believe in it." She asked him "OK, then what causes my extreme tiredness and hair loss?" He said he didn't know and just let it drop. >> My point is that where money is involved we consumers are on their own. >> If companies can price their products starting at the top and work [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I disagree. Companies use all sorts of pricing strategies based upon a > number of variables. Indeed, but they don't necessarily tell consumers the truth about it. > But, if you think everybody is out to get your > money, you have a lot of company. Experience will tell you how much > you need to spend to obtain a perceived set of qualities in a good or a > service. Sometimes experience doesn't help. If you can't actually define 'quality' in something, how do you know whether you need it or not and how much you should pay for it. I've never broken either good or cheap frames (well, except for the face plant, and I solved that with superglue) and I buy the ones that don't hurt my nose -- not a big selection and, all things being equal, appearance is the last criterion. What more could I expect if I paid $200 more? > What I think you are saying is that since you don't expect > much, you aren't going to pay much. If I don't NEED much I don't intend to pay much. I guess I've been pretty lucky so far in that that system seems to have worked out pretty well for quite a while. Do you actually believe that "minimize cost and maximize price" is NOT the standard technique used by businesses throughout time and space? SignatureCheers, Bev On 10/22/06 9:29 AM, in article 453B9C68.40404@gmail.com, "The Real Bev" <bashley101-xp@gmail.com> wrote: > My life experience indicates that goods of all kinds are frequently > over-priced (it would be dumb to charge less than people are willing to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > didn't know and just let it drop. No interest at all in tracking down > the answer to my question and getting back to me. I have concluded that I MUST be my own general medical contractor. Medicare just does not provide sufficient financial incentive for physicians to be motivated to do anything out of the ordinary. Moreover, if they do accept Medicare, I think they are prohibited from accepting additional payment from patients to think out of the box. Bev, there is a good chance that your doctor is competent but just does not want to be caught up in an unprofitable thread of customized investigation. Bill -- Fermez le Bush > <bashley101-xp@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Medicare, I think they are prohibited from accepting additional payment from > patients to think out of the box. OTOH, that's just about all there is except for plastic surgeons. HMOs/insurance companies have negotiated prices for their clients, most of whom have insurance. People without insurance pay whatever they can negotiate individually or nothing at all. That's the nature of today's playing field and has been for quite a while. If the docs aren't happy about it, well, neither were the buggy-whip makers. > Bev, there is a good chance that your doctor is competent but just does not > want to be caught up in an unprofitable thread of customized investigation. Is that covered in the Hippocratic Oath? I don't want a dumb assembly-line guy, I want a guy who finds pleasure in solving medical problems. There HAVE to be a few of those guys out there, right? Maybe some of them are even HERE! Come on, can't you tell when a guy is dumb? I can. Friend's Caltech grad turned ER doc said that med school discouraged thinking and rewarded memorization. I want someone who can think. SignatureCheers, Bev >>> Among the questions I asked was "What kind of >>> specialist should I see who can explain to me why, in [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > those guys out there, right? Maybe some of them are even > HERE! You should broach those questions in an academic environment. This guy probably sees his charter to cure and prevent your ills along with many others. Not exhibiting a training effect doesn't sound like an ailment and something you should take up at a health spa or with a personal trainer? -Quick >>>> Among the questions I asked was "What kind of >>>> specialist should I see who can explain to me why, in [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > an ailment and something you should take up at a health spa or with > a personal trainer? No, I would think that it's a medical problem. Small heart? Poor capillarization? Deficient alveoli? My lungs are huge, so that can't be the problem. It's my opinion that anyone who works at a "spa" or who is a personal trainer can be replaced by a good book and a little common sense. That wasn't his only inadequacy, just the most annoying. If I ask a minimum-wage salesgirl a question that she can't answer, I would expect her to say that she didn't know but would try to find out. That's what I did when I was a minimum-wage salesgirl. I think I have a right to expect more of someone who may hold the power of life and death in his hands. You have to do SOMETHING to earn the house in Aspen. SignatureCheers, Bev =================================== New sig on order, watch this space. |
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