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Medical Forum / General / Vision / September 2006

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can any buddy suggest me how to calculate IOl power in Silicon filled eyes

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ani - 27 Aug 2006 13:59 GMT
HI
Can any optometrist suggest me how to calculate IOLpower in silisocn
filled eyes
PLz tell me
otisbrown@pa.net - 27 Aug 2006 19:03 GMT
Dear Ani,

The eye is not filled with silicon.

The refractive index of the eye is about 1.33.

The APPROXIMATE power of the lens of the eye is
about 10 diopters.

The total power of the eye is about 60 diopters.

Otis

> HI
>  Can any optometrist suggest me how to calculate IOLpower in silisocn
> filled eyes
> PLz tell me
Jan - 27 Aug 2006 21:42 GMT
otisbrown@pa.net schreef:
> Dear Ani,
>
> The eye is not filled with silicon.

Indeed, when we speak of a normal healthy eye.

> The refractive index of the eye is about 1.33.

A bad and to simple statement Otis, you certainly have no knowledge what
so ever in optics.

refractive index tears 1,333

refractive index fluid eye chamber and corpus vitreum 1,336

refractive index cornea 1,376

refractive index lens crystallina cortical-nuclear 1,386-1,406

> The APPROXIMATE power of the lens of the eye is
> about 10 diopters.

If that was true there are almost no myopic's anymore and a lot of plus
lens fan's instead.

No Otis, again you show your lack in optics, especially optics in eyes.

BTW, the lens crystallina when replaced by an implant lens should,
roughly said, have a power of 20 diopters.

Otis, beat a retread.

Free to Marcus Porcius Cato's "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

In conclusion, I think that the "old plus lens junk recovered by Otis"
should be destroyed.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
Ann - 27 Aug 2006 22:25 GMT
>Dear Ani,
>
>The eye is not filled with silicon.

How do you know?  A medical procedure fills the eye with silicon but
you state that it doesn't..

Ann

>The refractive index of the eye is about 1.33.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> filled eyes
>> PLz tell me
otisbrown@pa.net - 27 Aug 2006 19:03 GMT
Dear Ani,

The eye is not filled with silicon.

The refractive index of the eye is about 1.33.

The APPROXIMATE power of the lens of the eye is
about 10 diopters.

The total power of the eye is about 60 diopters.

Otis

> HI
>  Can any optometrist suggest me how to calculate IOLpower in silisocn
> filled eyes
> PLz tell me
Jan - 27 Aug 2006 21:05 GMT
ani schreef:
> HI
>  Can any optometrist suggest me how to calculate IOLpower in silisocn
> filled eyes
> PLz tell me

Look for Gullstrand's schematic eye.

Be aware of the differences in refraction index and the differences in
optical system build up.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
otisbrown@pa.net - 27 Aug 2006 21:52 GMT
What I said was the AVERAGE refractive index for the
over-all eye was about 1.38 for an eye with a length
of 24 mm.  Different eyes will have different lengths,
and different values of refractive index.  Your is
an idealization of a large number of eyes, and
an analysis of a "frozen" eye -- for the convenience]
of optical analysis.  But it NEVER represents
the dynamic behavior of the natural living eye.

Otis

> ani schreef:
> > HI
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
Jan - 27 Aug 2006 22:32 GMT
otisbrown@pa.net schreef:
> What I said was the AVERAGE refractive index for the
> over-all eye was about 1.38 for an eye with a length
> of 24 mm.

There is no such thing as an average refractive index of the eye Otis,
only you make such a homemade brew.

>Your is an idealization of a large number of eyes, and
> an analysis of a "frozen" eye -- for the convenience]
> of optical analysis.

So are your's.

  But it NEVER represents
> the dynamic behavior of the natural living eye.

Indeed, it only gives a average view on the optical topics concerning
the eye (in rest, no accommodation) kicking and alive.

Remember Otis, you and you alone are suggesting the eye is a simple
box-camera.

We know better.

Otis, beat a retread.

Free to Marcus Porcius Cato's "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

In conclusion, I think that the "old plus lens junk recovered by Otis"
should be destroyed.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
Mike Tyner - 27 Aug 2006 23:20 GMT
> of optical analysis.  But it NEVER represents
> the dynamic behavior of the natural living eye.

And you NEVER present evidence, only opinion.

-MT
otisbrown@pa.net - 27 Aug 2006 21:58 GMT
Dear Friend,

You have made an assumption.  That the natural eye is
filled with silicon.  This is not the case.

In general, when a lens is removed (catarack surgery), the
power of the eye is reduced by about 10 diopters.

The power of the eye is about 60 diopters (different with
different people), but the result of removing that
internal lens is the need of a +10 diopter plus
for clear focus AFTER the lens is removed.

These values are approximate.  Using ultra-sound
methods -- better judgment may be made of the
power of the internal lens -- and the necessary
repacement.

Otis

> HI
>  Can any optometrist suggest me how to calculate IOLpower in silisocn
> filled eyes
> PLz tell me
Simon Dean - 27 Aug 2006 22:20 GMT
> Dear Friend,
>
> You have made an assumption.  That the natural eye is
> filled with silicon.  This is not the case.

You're a fruitcake Otis. He never made that assumption. You're assuming
that's what he's talking about.

Get some sleep Otis.
Ann - 27 Aug 2006 22:26 GMT
>Dear Friend,
>
>You have made an assumption.  That the natural eye is
>filled with silicon.  This is not the case.

No.  You have made an assumption that the OP is talking about a normal
eye.  A medical procedure can fill the eye with silicon but you are
totally ignorant of that fact.. you are disgusting

Ann

>In general, when a lens is removed (catarack surgery), the
>power of the eye is reduced by about 10 diopters.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>> filled eyes
>> PLz tell me
Jan - 27 Aug 2006 22:31 GMT
otisbrown@pa.net schreef:
> Dear Friend,
>
> You have made an assumption.  That the natural eye is
> filled with silicon.  This is not the case.

And you think the OP has no brains too?

> In general, when a lens is removed (catarack surgery), the
> power of the eye is reduced by about 10 diopters.

Yes and I'm the pope.

Again Otis, this shows your lack in knowledge when it comes to optics.

> The power of the eye is about 60 diopters (different with
> different people), but the result of removing that
> internal lens is the need of a +10 diopter plus
> for clear focus AFTER the lens is removed.

Wrong again Otis and again showing your lack in eye optic knowledge

> Using ultra-sound methods -- better judgment may be made of the
> power of the internal lens -- and the necessary
> repacement.

That's more like it.

Otis, beat a retread.

Free to Marcus Porcius Cato's "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

In conclusion, I think that the "old plus lens junk recovered by Otis"
should be destroyed.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
William Stacy - 27 Aug 2006 22:30 GMT
> HI
>  Can any optometrist suggest me how to calculate IOLpower in silisocn
> filled eyes
> PLz tell me

You would have to know the refractive index of the IOL for starters. And
your question may have no possible answer.

For example if you are using an IOL with the same index or less than
that of the silicone oil, the power would be infinitely large, as no
matter how strong it is in air, it will have a zero or negative power in
a medium of the same index (unless the eye were very long, as in high
myopia).

Assuming an IOL of higher index than the oil, you need to know the
corneal curvature and the axial length of the eye.  From that, ordinary
optical formulas will give you a power for the IOL, but remember you
must correct for the power in air if the IOL is to be specified as
measured in air.

Of course no matter what you do, according to otis, the eye will adapt
and emmetropize itself so long as you never put a minus lens in front of
it, so I guess it doesn't matter what you put in there...

Who needs a cornea or an IOL anyway, since the fundamental eye will
always fix itself if left alone through the mystery of dynamic nature?

w.stacy, o.d.
Jan - 27 Aug 2006 22:42 GMT
William Stacy schreef:

> Of course no matter what you do, according to otis, the eye will adapt
> and emmetropize itself so long as you never put a minus lens in front of
> it, so I guess it doesn't matter what you put in there...
>
> Who needs a cornea or an IOL anyway, since the fundamental eye will
> always fix itself if left alone through the mystery of dynamic nature?

I like your "dynamic" and "funda - mental" thoughts.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
William Stacy - 27 Aug 2006 22:48 GMT
Yeah, and Jan I wish I'd paid more attention in Latin class.  Thanks for
your humor.

BTW have you noticed that otis posts to the alt.cancer.breast group?  He
claims that brasierres cause it because everyone who gets it has had a
bra on.  Except otis.  He is protected by the plus lens so is able to
wear one with impunity...

w.stacy, o.d.

> William Stacy schreef:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
ani - 03 Sep 2006 11:50 GMT
I mean was people who under go for silicon oil insertion in their for
prevent retinal detachment so If they want to go for catract Sx how to
calculate IOL power calculation in these patient. becoz For caculating
we need to hav an axial length so the we usually ultrasound for
caculation of axial length but here Refractive index differ so device
caculates worng axial length so how do u caculate an axial length
length ultimately how u calculate IOL power .............. that my
question......
> HI
>  Can any optometrist suggest me how to calculate IOLpower in silisocn
> filled eyes
> PLz tell me
William Stacy - 03 Sep 2006 19:01 GMT
> I mean was people who under go for silicon oil insertion in their for
> prevent retinal detachment so If they want to go for catract Sx how to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>>filled eyes
>>PLz tell me

you should take a look at:

http://doctor-hill.com/iol-main/silicone.htm

Seems prudent to use a flat rear curve which should not be influenced by
the index of whatever is in the vitreous cavity.  But if a biconvex iol
is used, you would have to correct for the posterior curve using normal
thick lens formulas:

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/ThickLensFormula.html

w.stacy, o.d.
Don W - 03 Sep 2006 19:34 GMT
> Seems prudent to use a flat rear curve which should not be influenced by
> the index of whatever is in the vitreous cavity.  But if a biconvex iol is
> used, you would have to correct for the posterior curve using normal thick
> lens formulas:

 A question moreso in the area of lens design than anything.  It seems that
the refractive material adjacent to the 'flat rear curve" would affect the
focal point.  The different entering angles, and angles thru the lens,
(i.e., ray traces) would be then be refracted differently at the flat
surface depending on the index of refraction.  Would this not be the case?

Don W.
William Stacy - 03 Sep 2006 20:22 GMT
>>Seems prudent to use a flat rear curve which should not be influenced by
>>the index of whatever is in the vitreous cavity.  But if a biconvex iol is
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Don W.

No it wouldn't.  An optically flat interface has no refractive power by
definition.

w.stacy, o.d.
Don W - 08 Sep 2006 05:55 GMT
> No it wouldn't.  An optically flat interface has no refractive power by
> definition.
>
> w.stacy, o.d.

 Had wondered about this.  In order for the flat to have "no refractive
power" the rays must be close to the optical axis.  That is, for the
"definition" to hold, the input ray angles (radians) are the same as the
trig equivalents.  But my first guess is this is not true of images
projected onto the retina.

Don W.
William Stacy - 08 Sep 2006 17:30 GMT
>>No it wouldn't.  An optically flat interface has no refractive power by
>>definition.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>  

There is no optical "axis" of a flat surface, as the optical center is
undefined.  It is true that rays encountering a flat suface that are not
perpindicular to that surface are deflected slightly due to prismatic
effect.  But all rays parallel to those off-perpindicular rays are
deflected the same amount, which means there is still zero diopters
refraction (no convergence and no divergence) at any flat surface.

w.stacy, o.d.
 
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