 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / General / Vision / May 2007Homemade saline
Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. > Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. No. Homemade saline should never enter the eye, whether attached to a rigid or soft lens. Dr Judy >> Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. > > No. Homemade saline should never enter the eye, whether attached to a rigid > or soft lens. > > Dr Judy I do not use contact lenses. But if I did, why should I take such unsubstatnitate advice seriosly. Mix up some normal saline solution in a beaker, filter it, and boil it a while. If kept sterile, what harm can come from it? I realize that some presevation may be necssary. This strikes me as part of a continuing attempt to make individual totally upon commercial expertise. This strikes me as part of a continuing attempt to make individual totally upon commercial expertise, even for the simplest. There seems to be a conspiracy to prevent people at large from buying chemicals or laboratory equipment so the could coe something for themselves. A better answer from Dr. Judy woud be a recipe that would provide safe solution. Bill >Subject: Re: Homemade saline >From: Repeating Decimal salmonfry@sbcglobal.net >Date: 10/26/2003 11:37 AM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <BBC15463.2970%salmonfry@sbcglobal.net> >This strikes me as part of a continuing attempt to make individual totally >upon commercial expertise, even for the simplest. There seems to be a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Bill Same with phytic acid .. Instead of trying to find out / research its' effectiveness .. they are attempting .. and succeeding .. in developing it into MANY 'marketable' .. drugs .. Carbohydrate drugs .. Who loves ya. Tom  SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking >Subject: Re: Homemade saline >From: ironjustice@aol.comdoe (doe) [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Carbohydrate drugs .. http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,52519,00.html Who loves ya. Tom SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking > >> Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Bill Bill, The advise by Dr Judy is a professional one, short and practical. Acanthamoebe rarely seen but possible is involved besides wetting the surface and and the buffering when placing the lens on the eye. Speaking off practical, first boiling then cool off and then use this solution and this done every day (sterile) instead off the very easy use of a ready made storing and rinsing solution? Are the people in the US that poor? Jan (normally Dutch spoken) > The advise by Dr Judy is a professional one, short and practical. > Acanthamoebe rarely seen but possible is involved besides wetting the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a ready made storing and rinsing solution? > Are the people in the US that poor? In general, no. But many of us hate being dependent on commercial products if we can make/acquire the same thing in a much cheaper way without too much trouble. Just because we can afford it doesn't mean we buy it. Saline ($2.50US/pint on sale) is so cheap that making it seems like way more trouble than it's worth -- I go through a pint in a couple of months. Still, if it actually were as simple as just mixing salt and water with no additional treatment required I would probably do it on the principle of not spending money for no real benefit. SignatureCheers, Bev ################################################################### "Johnston [Island] was the home of a U.S. chemical weapons disposal facility for 10 years before operations ended in November 2000. The island was turned into a wildlife preserve." © 2002 The Associated Press > > The advise by Dr Judy is a professional one, short and practical. > > Acanthamoebe rarely seen but possible is involved besides wetting the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the principle of not spending money for no real > benefit. You have a real chance in damaging your eye when using homemade saline, but I must agree lots of people have an angel around. BTW, you have to made the solution 0,9% saline. Are you capable to do so and be sure that it is 0,9% saline after the recommomended heating? What about the sterile subject (you are using a bottle several months after opening) No doubts about the contamination possibilities? Indeed Bev, having no responsibilities when giving advises is easy. Jan (normally Dutch spoken) > > > The advise by Dr Judy is a professional one, short and practical. > > > Acanthamoebe rarely seen but possible is involved besides wetting the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jan (normally Dutch spoken) I think you missed the part about "with no additional treatment required." That means that if all I had to do was mix salt and water together I would do it. For emphasis: IF! That means that I recognize that there are additional procedures that have to be followed in order to make SAFE saline solution. I did not advise anyone to make his own, and I would not do it myself. In general, however, I think it's not a bad thing for people to do as much for themselves as possible. I also lack your optimism about finding GOOD optical professionals -- their competence follows the same bell curve that just about everything else does, and somebody has to be in the lower half. You speak English better than I speak Dutch, but sometimes we all have to read a little more carefully before we answer. SignatureCheers, Bev ================================================================= "The federal government has taken too much tax money from the people, too much authority from the states, and too much liberty with the Constitution." -- Ronald Reagan > You have a real chance in damaging your eye when using homemade saline, but > I must agree lots of people have an angel around. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > No doubts about the contamination possibilities? > Indeed Bev, having no responsibilities when giving advises is easy. In fact, I do have the capability of meetin such a specification. The only thing I use saline for at this time is as a nose decongestant. I buy it because of the convenince of a spray container. But I do get it at the local 99¢ store. Bill > The advise by Dr Judy is a professional one, short and practical. > Acanthamoebe rarely seen but possible is involved besides wetting the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a ready made storing and rinsing solution? > Are the people in the US that poor? I do not deny that there is a monetary value to convenience. There is also a value to the feeling of self-sufficiency. Bill > > The advise by Dr Judy is a professional one, short and practical. > > Acanthamoebe rarely seen but possible is involved besides wetting the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Bill Bill, I have the same feeling when it comes to easy to made by yourselfs stuff as you have, no doubts. But when safety counts more and is affordable at a normal price then I go for safety. When I can't pay, I have the choise not to use it and to decide for other solutions to solve my needs. Are you a person who is using home grinded chalk to brush your theets with? I doubt it. Are you a person who is cooking fresh vegatables instead of using ready for the magnetron foodpackages? Here I have the feeling that you do and if so, I am doing the same. Greetings, Jan (normally Dutch spoken) > Bill, I have the same feeling when it comes to easy to made by yourselfs > stuff as you have, no doubts. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the magnetron foodpackages? > Here I have the feeling that you do and if so, I am doing the same. It is one thing to be prudent, and another to go off the deep end. If it weren't for scare mongers, there would be little worry about with respect to radon. It is a low concentration inert gas. Except for the tiny part of a tiny concentration that happens to transmute while in your body, it would get exhaled again. The same is true for asbestos. Only about 20% of what has been used is the dcngerous kind. If you do not smoke, asbestos doesn't get you anyway. How often do you make a questionable left turn after the light has turned red? Perception of risk is often a greater risk than the risk itself. Bill > >> Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > equipment so the could coe something for themselves. A better answer from > Dr. Judy woud be a recipe that would provide safe solution. The is no prohibition upon buying the lab equipment and ingredients for making saline. Any scientific supply house has them, no permits required. The part of your answer that will provide difficult if not impossible for those making their own saline is the "make normal saline and keep sterile" part. If you have the lab equipment at home to make normal saline, test it for the right concentration, access to buffers to add to keep it at the proper pH, the means to fill and seal single use containers, and an autoclave to sterilize them after filling, I suppose you could use safely use home made saline. Sorry, I am not a chemist and can't supply a recipe. Of course, if you have all that stuff at home, I expect you already know the recipe and could share it with the rest of ust. Dr Judy > Bill > The is no prohibition upon buying the lab equipment and ingredients for > making saline. Any scientific supply house has them, no permits required. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > all that stuff at home, I expect you already know the recipe and could share > it with the rest of ust. Of course some processes are difficult. That is why people, me included, in our flush society are willing to pay outrageous prices for certain conveniences. Look at the difference in prices between some brand name vs generic drugs. In one case, I bought 20 pound sack of hydroponic nutrient for about $1.00 a pound. The same stuff, repackaged in one pound containers goes for anywhere between seven to ten times as much! I have trouble getting this equipment you are talking about. I bought a pH meter from across the country. Some states are making possession of lab glassware a drug offense. I cannot obtain simple chemicals easily because the scientific supply houses you refer to are unwilling to accept the liability. I am surprised that any kid end up wanting to be a chemist. Bill > > Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. > > No. Homemade saline should never enter the eye, whether attached to a rigid I don't think that is a very satisfactory answer, given the personalities of this group. Most of us are not interested in a yes or no answer, but want to know "why". My understanding (from the distant past) is that people have suffered permanent eye damage from using homemade saline. As cheap as saline is, I can't see the point in making your own. Having said that, I know that the commercial solution is sterile when I first open it, but after opening it a whole bunch of times over a long period, how could it stay sterile? And having said both of the above, how is it the same water that isn't good enough to wash my contacts with, is good enough to bathe and swim in, with no attempt at sterilization at all? Although I try to keep the bath water out of my eyes, I know that many people swim in this same water with their eyes open. (Note that the above two questions are not aimed at Dr. Judy specifically.) SignatureDan Abel Sonoma State University AIS dabel@sonic.net > > > Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > water out of my eyes, I know that many people swim in this same water with > their eyes open. Organisms that do not cause problems in the digestive tract or on the skin can cause problems in the eye. Tap water and distilled water can contain these organisms in cyst form. Several years ago a number of people ended up with corneal transplants following infection from home made saline. Dr Judy > (Note that the above two questions are not aimed at Dr. Judy specifically.) One of the most dangerous, but seldom seen, problems with homemade saline is corneal infection with Acanthameoba. This is from cysts that are normally harmlessly in our water supply, are VERY hard to kill. They get can live in homemade saline and get ground into the cornea, where they cause a painful, indolent ulceration., We have almost no drugs to treat this well, and treatment is a protracted course of many months. Inspite of treatment, many end up needing a cormeal transplant to stop the pain as well as help the vision. I used to use homemade saline back in the days of heat disinfection of soft lenses. I would not knowing what I know now. David Robins, MD Board certified Ophthalmologist Pediatric and strabismus subspecialty Member of AAPOS (American Academy of Pediatric Ophthalmology and Strabismus) On 10/25/03 5:15 PM, in article vpm4f13s4ltbd7@corp.supernews.com, "Tom S" <nowhere@noplace.com> wrote: > Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. >Subject: Re: Homemade saline >From: "David Robins, MD" trashadd@bigfoot.com [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >end up needing a cormeal transplant to stop the pain as well as help the >vision. OK .. lets take a look at the type of organism it is .. and see if it is at all related to the fact disease has been shown to be much more virulent in those with higher than normal iron levels and the ability of the pathogen to survive in a host. Phytic acid is a natural substance found in the chaff of our grain and it is a superb iron binder which coincidentally is the 'mode of operation' of many of our more powerful antibiotics and antifungals. Lactoferrin is one of the only substances found to be effective against the most commonly acquired hospital infections. It is an iron binder produced in the mucus of our bodies as the first line of defence in our immune system. It is an iron binder. Eye infection / destruction is very common in underdeveloped countries and therefore this might be just what they are looking for due to its VERY low cost? Iron has been shown to be placed in the epidermis due to the suns rays and since iron has been shown to be in the eyes of those with macular degeneration the cause of the ENTRENCHMENT of the disease of the eye .. JUST may BE .. due to the iron levels in the eye? What say .. Is it possible to test this phytic acid in a saline solution .. ? Would phytic acid stand the test as a possible use in a CHEAP / inexpensive antifungal/antibiotic for the eye .. ? Who loves ya. Tom >I used to use homemade saline back in the days of heat disinfection of soft >lenses. I would not knowing what I know now. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. >> SignatureJesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking > Iron has been shown to be placed in the epidermis due to the suns rays > and since iron has been shown to be in the eyes of those with macular > degeneration the cause of the ENTRENCHMENT of the disease of the eye .. > JUST may BE .. due to the iron levels in the eye? Don't forget that iron is an important part of hemoglobin, the protein that helps to carry oxygen through the bloodstream. Your post reminds me of the longstanding dihydrogen monoxide controversy: http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html http://www.dhmo.org/ Sorry, I couldn't resist. :-) -Luke > One of the most dangerous, but seldom seen, problems with homemade saline is > corneal infection with Acanthameoba. This is from cysts that are normally [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > end up needing a cormeal transplant to stop the pain as well as help the > vision. Why is this not a problem when you take a shower and get water in your eye? Certainly, even houshold hot water will not reach the temperature of boiling water. Bill > > One of the most dangerous, but seldom seen, problems with homemade saline is > > corneal infection with Acanthameoba. This is from cysts that are normally [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Bill Running fresh tap water. Jan (normally Dutch spoken) >> One of the most dangerous, but seldom seen, problems with homemade >> saline is corneal infection with Acanthameoba. This is from cysts [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Bill Acanthamoeba, in all probability, CAN be isolated from the shower water. In fact, spores have been found in bottled water. This organism is ubiquitous. Acanthamoeba infections are quite rare in the general population, but are more likely to occur in someone who wears contact lenses. This speaks to the mechanism of the infection, which is opportunistic. There generally needs to be some antecedent trauma to the cornea via the contact lens, especially overnight wear, then the introduction of organisms in sufficient concentration. Hot tubs seem to be great culture media for Acanthamoeba, as is homemade saline improperly prepared. Ironically, one of the first substances to be found effective in the treatment of Acanthamoeba Keratitis was Bacquenil, a bromine-based swimming pool disinfectant. DrG > > One of the most dangerous, but seldom seen, problems with homemade saline is > > corneal infection with Acanthameoba. This is from cysts that are normally [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Certainly, even houshold hot water will not reach the temperature of boiling > water. Contact lens wearers are more likely to have minor breaks in the corneal epithelium which allows the organisms entry and the volume of saline entering the eye with the lens is greater that that which comes with a shower splash. The other problem is that homemade saline is usually made from a jug of distillled water and saline is usually made up a litre or so at a time, during storage, the organisms can be multiplying. Dr Judy > Bill > Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. Tom, Several reasons not to use home made saline on your RGP lenses (also not on the soft ones) First of all you can not clean your lenses with saline solution, it simply does not clean. Storage in saline solution is also not advisible because saline solution does not desinfect. Your storage case has to be cleaned also BTW (every day) Maybe you want to use the saline only to rins the contactlens off but this also is not advisible when your eyes can stand the ready made storing and rins solutions available for RGP lenses. Keep in mind that the storage and rinsing solution special for RGP lenses also keeps the surface of the lenses "wetter" and this is most comfortable when putting your lenses in. If you insist on saline solution to rinse, use a preserved one special for contactlenses and look at he bottle for instructions about the time you are allowed to use the solution after you have opened it. There are also oneday capsules (unpreserved) wich you can use for rinsing. The Acanthamoeba is not the only bad thing that can hits you, there is also the Pseudomonas aeruginosa but if the Acanthamoeba hits your cornea it is the worst one. The hitting chances when wearing RGP lenses are lesser as seen in softlenses.(recent studies at he University off Glasgow pointed out the Acanthamoeba attached most on Silicone hydrogel lenses) but wearing RGP does not exclude you from a hit. If you want the read some stuff about the chances than read the stuff on this link http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000753.htm Also interesting to read http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/41/7/2992 http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/40/4/1199 (read the last line about the recommandation in cleaning the storage case) Jan (normally Dutch spoken) I won't say much here because I have posted in the past and apparently am in the very small minority of people on the planet that do make his own saline solution. I have been making and using my own saline solution for 25+ years with NEVER any kind of eye infection. I use sodium chloride salt tablets and steam distilled water. I do throw out the distilled water after the container is half full. And I do clean my contact lens case and saline solution bottle with hot water EVERY day. I do seem to react to ALL prepared saline solution including 'pure' spray cans of saline. And that is why I make my own with no reaction. ------------------------------------------------------------------- But, the CAUTIONS here are that I am very fanatic about cleanliness overall in my saline preparation process and I NEVER, NEVER store my lenses in my saline. For disinfection, I use the Equate chemical disinfection solution every night. The home prepared saline solution is for RINSING the lenses only before inserting them in my eyes. ------------------------------------------------------------------- I suppose some day the salt police will take away my sodium chloride and then where will I be? The last time I went to the pharmacy I was grilled as to why I needed sodium chloride. Can you believe it? I person almost needs a prescription now for common salt. > And I do clean my > contact lens case and saline solution bottle with hot water EVERY day. Why is hot water from the tap likely to be any safer than cold water? SignatureCheers, Bev --------------------------------------------- "The primary purpose of any government entity is to employ the unemployable." Most hot water heaters reach 170-180 degrees, and the live bacteria count is usually lower in hot tap water than cold. -MT > > And I do clean my > > contact lens case and saline solution bottle with hot water EVERY day. > > Why is hot water from the tap likely to be any safer than cold water? >Most hot water heaters reach 170-180 degrees, and the live bacteria count is >usually lower in hot tap water than cold. ...thank you ; - ) I wasn't sure if that was a trick question or not... -Jim >-MT >> > And I do clean my >> > contact lens case and saline solution bottle with hot water EVERY day. >> >> Why is hot water from the tap likely to be any safer than cold water? > >Most hot water heaters reach 170-180 degrees, and the live bacteria count is > >usually lower in hot tap water than cold. > > ...thank you ; - ) > > I wasn't sure if that was a trick question or not... Mine? No, it was real. Since various nasties can even survive boiling, it doesn't seem like an outlandish question. Since we keep our hot water at a temperature only a little too hot for comfort ("warm" on the dial) rather than scalding, in my case I don't think it makes any difference. > >> > And I do clean my > >> > contact lens case and saline solution bottle with hot water EVERY day. > >> > >> Why is hot water from the tap likely to be any safer than cold water? SignatureCheers, Bev $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ "If you put the government in charge of the desert, there would be a sand shortage within ten years." -- M. Friedman (?) > Most hot water heaters reach 170-180 degrees, and the live bacteria count is > usually lower in hot tap water than cold. According to http://home.howstuffworks.com/, you can generally set them to between 120 and 180, but they recommend 120 to 140, both to save energy and to prevent scalding, especially if there are children in the house. SignatureDan Abel Sonoma State University AIS dabel@sonic.net >Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. Although I would never personally use homemade saline on my lenses (the store-bought stuff is cheap and much safer), for people who insist on doing so, you might consider a kitchen sink-mounted instant hot water dispenser. I would be very surprised if Acanthamoeba cysts can survive for more than a few minutes in the 190F (88C) water that is constantly present in those things (although am happy to listen if anybody has data to the contrary). I use mine to rinse my contact lens cases every morning after removing my lenses from it, and I sleep pretty well not worrying about Acanthamoeba or other nasties. Still, fully boiling water is safer yet. Lothar we used to make saline when soft contact lenses came out in 1972. All of the USA did. Then, when everyone got eye infections, Aosept, Renu and the other commercial chemical disinfection systems came out. You can certainly re- invent the wheel (bottle your own saline) but be prepared for sight threatening infections. When you go blind, don't say you weren't warned! Buy the commercial disinfection systems and quit being a cheapo! >Is it ok to use home made saline on RGP lenses? Thanks. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.