Medical Forum / General / Vision / June 2006
RGP/Ortho-K Dry Eyes/Sticking Contacts
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Scot - 08 Jun 2006 17:22 GMT Anyone have any ideas on sticky rgp contacts? I started with OK back in january and am still working to make it right. Today I am pretty happy with the results, though I do have some nighttime starbursting.
My biggest issue is dryness induced decentration. If I wear my lenses while I am awake and blinking, it will take about 15 or so minutes for my lenses to "stick" on my eyes, generally slightly off center. If I put some drops in it will take a few minutes to "unstick" them but 15 minutes later they will stick again. Putting drops in every 5-10 minutes is not a viable option as the more drops I put in, the drier my eyes seem to get. I would be happy to put the lenses in when it gets dark as my starbursts are drastically reduced, but as t it sticks off center I get a nice double vision problem the next day which is not acceptable.
My normal use is actually while sleeping where I also have the issue but to a much lesser extent. If I put them in and IMMEDIATELY go to bed after putting a few drops of the boston re-wetting solution in, I am generally fine by the next morning though every once in a while one eye will stick a bit.
I did have my eyes checked with a corneal topographer and it looks good, after a night where the contacts did not stick.
I'll be checking in with the doc next week, but figured I would ask to see if anyone had any hints.
Using boston advance solution, the boston cleaner and boston drops. Lenses are jade, based on boston materials (can't remember the exact material name but there is only one or two AFAIK from boston)
Scot
Dr. Leukoma - 09 Jun 2006 13:47 GMT If you have dry eyes, you need that addressed. Treatments include punctal plugs and drugs such as Restasis. First, you need a dry eye workup.
DrG
> Anyone have any ideas on sticky rgp contacts? I started with OK back > in january and am still working to make it right. Today I am pretty [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Scot Anon E. Muss - 09 Jun 2006 15:35 GMT >If you have dry eyes, you need that addressed. Treatments include >punctal plugs and drugs such as Restasis. First, you need a dry eye >workup. Which brings up an important point for laypersons: a good eyedoctor does not just prescribe artificial tears dor dry eyes based on symptomology only. A good doctor will perform a dry eye workup.
Dry eyes have various etiologies such as insufficient tear production, excessive tear drainage, meibomian gland dysfunction. And different causes have different treatments. Prescribing a wrong treatment regimen for the particular cause of dry eyes can actually make things worse (e.g., prescribing artifical tears when the cause is entirely excessive evaporative loss due to meibomian gland disease.)
Some patients are put on topical steroids, some on hot compresses/lid massage, some on a tetracycline, others on artificial tears, others on RESTASIS, others on flaxseed oil, others still on punctal plugs and other treatment modailities.
A careful workup -- usually beyond what is part of a routine comprehensive eye examinaiton -- is normally required including things such as a tear break-up time, fluorescein staining, and Schirmer's testing, etc. Follow-ups are also required to gauge response to treatment and to adjust the treatment regimen as needed. The various treatment methods for dry eyes (topical steroids, oral tetracycline) while normally quite safe can have serious potential side effects.
<rant>
I get some people -- mostly people who have well-vision insurance through which we are participating providers, but their medical insurance elsewhere (e.g., HMOs) -- who want me to treat their dry eyes without peforming such a workup without getting properly reimbursed because of cost or convenience, or simply not performing a workup/followups.
o "Can't you just tell me which drops I should try?" (implied: without me having to do [read: PAY for] the workup and follow-ups). o "Can't I just try RESTASIS?" (implied: without me having to pay for the workup and follow-ups) o "What do you mean you don't know what is causing my dry eye? You just performed an eye exam." o "I don't want (have to) to go through my HMO. It will take at least a couple weeks to see a specialist -- I will have to go to my primary care doctor and then he will have to schedule an appointment with a specialist -- that will be at least two days off work and the hassle of dealing with my HMO (but I don't want to pay for a dry eye workup and associated followups). Can't you just tell me what I should try?" (implied: without me having to do [read: PAY for] the workup and follow-ups).
Laymen should realize when you do things like that, you put the doctor in an uncomfortable position. No matter nicely how you state it, some patients will feel that the "rich" doctor is being "greedy" (rather than the patient is being frugal) -- "You're already getting paid for an exam by the insurance" (note: at an already reduced reimbursement rate over usual & customary fee!) or the patient will feel like the doctor is accusing them of being "cheap"
And some other patients still will say "That much! Just for dry eyes??!!" These typically aren't cash patients who are used to paying the normal U&C fees for an eye exam, but those with well-vision insurance who come in only when the insurance covers an eye exam, want "only what the insurance will cover" as far as frames/lenses, and pay a $5.00 deductible. Perhaps when one gets used to paying a $5.00 deductible when their employers pay for their health/vision insurance, how much school and what an OD does becomes undervalued?
(BTW, it's not the doctor's job to explain to you how your insurance works, the intracies of it, why it covers vision and not medical eye problems, etc. It's the patient's job to know what it covers. I mean -- didn't you at least briefly read the coverage when you signed up for it?)
Please don't tell me no other ODs ever experience this and I alone occasionally get patients from the Twilight Zone.
</rant>
Neil Brooks - 09 Jun 2006 16:05 GMT > >If you have dry eyes, you need that addressed. Treatments include > >punctal plugs and drugs such as Restasis. First, you need a dry eye [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > treatment methods for dry eyes (topical steroids, oral tetracycline) > while normally quite safe can have serious potential side effects. AMEN!
Quick - 09 Jun 2006 19:58 GMT >> If you have dry eyes, you need that addressed. >> Treatments include punctal plugs and drugs such as [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > and I alone occasionally get patients from the Twilight > Zone. I agree with what you say except for your assumption that it's entirely motivated by cost. A very good number of us patients are just plain lazy. We got other stuff to do without the inconvenience of taking care of our bodies. That's why we came to you. There are some of us who take great interest in ourselves and make a point to put forth the effort to become as educated a participant in our health care as possible, but that's not everybody.
It is a hassle/inconvenience to go to the doctor's. And even more so to go through the HMO process, etc. There is always the hope of taking the "quick shot". "Heh doc, just try something, maybe we'll get lucky. If not, well, then we'll have to go the prescribed route."
Yes I can well imagine the price thing. Especially with something like eye care. There is a perception factor. You go to the eye doc and there are glasses, frames, and stuff up front for sale. The docs and assistants usually aren't wearing white lab coats and full hospital gear. It has a sort of commercial atmosphere. Like you're at the mall. You go to your GP and the atmosphere is different (granted, less pleasant). For some reason you expect the charges at your GP to be mysterious, numerous, and huge. I won't get into that. Back to the post.
Absolutely true. It's not your responsibility to know how my insurance works and what I'm supposed to do to submit a claim. BUT... that's going to be a huge factor in my decision to use your services. You have no idea the impression it makes when the person at the front says "Yes, we take that. I see you have this option so your co-pay will be this". "uhhh, do I have to call my PCP, submit this form here and that one there?". "No, I'll take care of all that for you". Inside I'm going "YES!".
I would guess it to be cost effective for your office management to have someone up front to keep up on all this and handle it.
-Quick
Dr. Leukoma - 09 Jun 2006 22:24 GMT > I agree with what you say except for your assumption that > it's entirely motivated by cost. A very good number of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > forth the effort to become as educated a participant in > our health care as possible, but that's not everybody. By the same token, "we" have better things to do than shuffle papers.
(snip)
> I would guess it to be cost effective for your office > management to have someone up front to keep up > on all this and handle it. I'm not sure it is ever cost effective. The person who files insurance claims cannot also be doing patient care things. Yet, that person adds to the overhead of running a practice. Patient X, who used to pay $Y for a service, now has insurance that reimburses $0.7Y for the same service. When every provider is on the same panel, all that has been accomplished is that additional layers of cost have been added to service the same patient.
Yes, we're doing more for the same amount of money, or less money usually, but it isn't related to patient care or services.
DrG
Scot - 10 Jun 2006 00:23 GMT I think the issue is less about lazy patients and more about the lack of valuable information out there. Nowhere have I found this more apparent than in dentistry, with eye procedures and practices being a close second :) Much of the information you do find is biased and there are a great number of doctors out there who are basically sales people for different brands. I know this isn't always the case, but from the consumers standpoint it is a bit disconcerting.
At this point patients don't know what to ask for. Just the fact I am asking this here says something, and I would rate myself as a persistant searcher for information.
As for my condition, I will be seeing the doc next week so its all good, just looking for more information. To the question of "dry eye" I never really seem to have an issue except with contacts. The longer I wear them, the dryer my eyes get. I take em out, and viola I am fine again. Must be nice to be one of those people who can just pop them in early and take em out at midnight.
Scot
Dr. Leukoma - 10 Jun 2006 00:51 GMT > As for my condition, I will be seeing the doc next week so its all > good, just looking for more information. To the question of "dry eye" I > never really seem to have an issue except with contacts. The longer I > wear them, the dryer my eyes get. I take em out, and viola I am fine > again. Must be nice to be one of those people who can just pop them in > early and take em out at midnight. Scott, trust me. I routinely fit RGP lenses on very challenging cases. If you don't have enough tears to float them, they will stick. Of course, that isn't the only variable, but it should not be overlooked.
DrG
Anon E. Muss - 10 Jun 2006 00:52 GMT [snip]
>To the question of "dry eye" I never really seem to have an issue >except with contacts. The longer I wear them, the dryer my eyes get. >I take em out, and viola I am fine again. This is pretty intuitive and obvious, but in all likelihood means you have just a mild case of dry eyes.
Sometimes people like you can consider RGPs. For some patients, they make their dry eyes less symptomatic; for me, they aggravated it. HEMA-based soft contact lenses were not much better. I tried ionic, non-ionic, low-water content, high-water content and all combinations of such -- I really didn't notice much difference that couldn't be attributed to normal "good days" and "bad days".
>Must be nice to be one of those people who can just pop them in >early and take em out at midnight. It is. And for probably 95% of the time, I can do that with silicone hydrogel contact lenses.
I have other patients that silicone hydrogel lenses do not provide any symptomatic improvement of their dry eyes, BUT I would have to say that the majority of patients have less symptoms of dry eyes on silicone hydrogel contacts vs HEMA lenses.
|
|
|