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Medical Forum / General / Vision / June 2006

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Adult Strabismus Surgery

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ck819 - 07 Jun 2006 18:11 GMT
Hello,

I had strabismus surgery 12 years ago.  My eyes went in a little.  I
wish I had never had the surgery because now my eyes are worse.

I am 34 and I have exotropia almost constantly.  I don't want to have
surgery again but I think right now I have to.

I am seeing a couple of docs here in Florida but I also made an appy
with Dr Guyton at John Hopkins. He's supposedly one of the best.

My question is it overkill to go to the "best"?  Do you think I'd get
the same results with any ped opthamologist?

I can't get in to see Dr Guyton until Sept.

Any help would be appreciated!!
Thanks
Neil Brooks - 07 Jun 2006 18:22 GMT
>Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>Any help would be appreciated!!
>Thanks

I actually think that there's a significant amount of missing info
here that would make specific recommendations very difficult, BUT ...
as a 3x strab surgery *patient* myself--here's my $0.02:

Get the best.

I've been to Guyton.  He missed some pretty critical stuff in my case,
so he's not the guy I had cut me the last time around.

If you're willing to trave to Southern Californial, my strabismus
ophthalmologist, IMO, is a better bet.

Yes: get the best.  Any reason NOT to??

If you're interested, just e-mail me and I'll give you the contact
info.

Neil
otisbrown@pa.net - 07 Jun 2006 18:44 GMT
> I am seeing a couple of docs here in Florida but I also made an appy
with Dr Guyton at John Hopkins. He's supposedly one of the best.

Otis> Dr. David Guyton is the best!
Neil Brooks - 07 Jun 2006 18:52 GMT
>> I am seeing a couple of docs here in Florida but I also made an appy
>with Dr Guyton at John Hopkins. He's supposedly one of the best.
>
>Otis> Dr. David Guyton is the best!

Please elaborate, Mister Brown.  Could you please say exactly what it
is that MAKES David Guyton the best strabismus ophthalmologist?

TIA,
Neil
ck819 - 07 Jun 2006 20:32 GMT
> > I am seeing a couple of docs here in Florida but I also made an appy
> with Dr Guyton at John Hopkins. He's supposedly one of the best.
>
> Otis> Dr. David Guyton is the best!

Thanks Neil and Otis.  Neil I emailed you.  Otis, why do you say Dr
Guyton is the best??
Thanks again
otisbrown@pa.net - 08 Jun 2006 02:28 GMT
Dear Ck819,

David Guyton is a friend -- and I have high confidence
in his professional ability.

Otis

++++++++

> > > I am seeing a couple of docs here in Florida but I also made an appy
> > with Dr Guyton at John Hopkins. He's supposedly one of the best.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Guyton is the best??
> Thanks again
Neil Brooks - 08 Jun 2006 03:45 GMT
>Dear Ck819,
>
>David Guyton is a friend -- and I have high confidence
>in his professional ability.
>
>Otis

He should sue you for libel just for that.

The ophthalmologic kiss of death: Otis has confidence in you.
A Lieberman - 08 Jun 2006 03:54 GMT
> Dear Ck819,
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> Guyton is the best??
>> Thanks again

ck819

Pleaes disregard Otis's postings.  He is not in the medical profession and
not in any position to give medical advice (even referrals).

Just look at his past posting history and you will clearly see what I mean.

Thank you!

Allen
odisbrown@pa.net - 08 Jun 2006 18:37 GMT
Dear ck819,

Subject: David Guyton, et al

You may or may know "know" me from
this forum, but I DO NOT ANSWER questions,
no matter how legitimate they seem to be.

Rather, I provide unsupported, closely-held
opinions that lack valid base and border on
pure zealotry.  I tend only to rebuff those
who deign to question me.

I "apologize" for ANY "confusion."

Best,

Odis
PseudoEngineer
Scott Seidman - 07 Jun 2006 22:25 GMT
"ck819" <cherylr819@gmail.com> wrote in news:1149700266.657034.246470
@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Any help would be appreciated!!
> Thanks

I think its fair to say that a second surgery can be more complicated
than a first surgery, and there's not always a way to tell before the
surgery.  You want a surgeon who has enough experience to can adapt to
whatever he finds during the surgery.  Guyton certainly has enough
experience to do the job right.  

There are probably very well qualified strab people in Florida as well,
likely at Bascom Palmer.

Signature

Scott
Reverse name to reply

acemanvx@yahoo.com - 08 Jun 2006 02:01 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Any help would be appreciated!!
> Thanks

I believe there is natural vision improvement to resolve an imbalance
in the muscles of the eyes. If that doesnt do, consider having prisms
added to your glasses? Much safer than more surgury.
Neil Brooks - 08 Jun 2006 02:22 GMT
>I believe there is natural vision improvement to resolve an imbalance
>in the muscles of the eyes. If that doesnt do, consider having prisms
>added to your glasses? Much safer than more surgury.

Do you think that it might be important to understand the DEGREE of
deviation ... before you make another one of your hopelessly
ill-informed, misguided recommendations?
acemanvx@yahoo.com - 08 Jun 2006 03:54 GMT
> >I believe there is natural vision improvement to resolve an imbalance
> >in the muscles of the eyes. If that doesnt do, consider having prisms
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> deviation ... before you make another one of your hopelessly
> ill-informed, misguided recommendations?

Unless surgury is medically necessary, you are telling him to get
elective surgury that could make things even worse when glasses prisms
or NVI can improve it.
Neil Brooks - 08 Jun 2006 04:20 GMT
> > >I believe there is natural vision improvement to resolve an imbalance
> > >in the muscles of the eyes. If that doesnt do, consider having prisms
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> elective surgury that could make things even worse when glasses prisms
> or NVI can improve it.

I really think the drugs have done permanent damage.  I'm not sure if
Otis's excuse is the same or not.

Where am I TELLING ANYBODY TO GET SURGERY??

This is one of the reasons that, I believe, so many people here ... uh
... how to put this ... think you're an idiot.

I didn't say anything of the sort.

By the way: I don't think your "quest for respect" would be damaged if
you could possibly learn to spell words like "surgery" or
"prescription."

Just something to think ab ... oh, never mind.
ck819 - 09 Jun 2006 15:15 GMT
> I believe there is natural vision improvement to resolve an imbalance
> in the muscles of the eyes. If that doesnt do, consider having prisms
> added to your glasses? Much safer than more surgury.

I don't even wear glasses.  My vision is 20/20.  I went to a vision
therapist and he's the one who recommended a surgical consult.
David Robins, MD - 09 Jun 2006 06:29 GMT
On 6/7/06 10:11 AM, in article
1149700266.657034.246470@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "ck819"
<cherylr819@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Any help would be appreciated!!
> Thanks

There really is no "best" in strabismus these days. Thereare  a lot of fine
and experienced clinician/surgeons, but no one I would characterize as the
"best" (not even me  :-)  )

The best for adult strabismus probably used to be Dr. Jampolsky in San
Francisco - he "wrote the book" on strabismus, and has probably taught more
fellows in the world than anyone else. However, now he is retired.

Then there is Alan Scott in San Francisco ("inventor" of BOTOX for
strabismus treatment).

Then there is Joe Demer in LA, or Art Rosenbaum in LA, or Keith McNeer in
the East Coast, or Burt Kushner in Madison, Wisconsin, or David Guyton in
Baltimore (who I trained with in 1982-83, and who I think is very smart and
respect a lot, but I am thus biased). Or Gunther Von Norden in Texas (? Now
retired, who trained Dr. Guyton). Or Elbert Magoon in Ohio. Or Dr. Cianca in
Argentina (I believe).

Let me tell you a short story. At one meeting, the debate was on treatment
of intermittent exotropia. Three of the best sat on stage, describing what
they would do, and how they would operate. One would weaken the laterals in
each eye, one would strengthen the medials in each eye, and one would do one
lateral and one medial. EACH ONE HAS A DIFFERENT SURGICAL APPROACH, AND EACH
SAID THEIRS WAS THE BEST AND ONLY TREATMENT THAT SHOULD BE USED!

Point is, the list of excellent surgeons goes on and on. There probably is
no "best". Neil's experience with his surgeon may have been great, and he
thinks he is the greatest, and that is fine, you can't argue with success.
It is the experience over the years, and the ingenuity of the person that
makes them a good surgeon. However, the final outcome is subject to the
vagarities of the brain and differences in healing that can make one person
come out great, and another come out poorly, despite the greatness of the
surgeon.

If you do see Dr. Guyton, say hello for me.

David Robins, MD
Board certified Ophthalmologist
Pediatric ophthalmology and adult strabismus subspecialty
 
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