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Medical Forum / General / Vision / June 2006Eyeglass return
Greetings, Recently I purchased a new pair of glasses under my vision plan at work. I am presbyopic(2 diopters reading) with a slight 0.5 diopter correction for distance. I explained that mostly I work on a computer & that my current glasses were bifocal with the upper portion correcting for computer screen distance & the lower bifocal for reading. However, when I leave my desk I had to remove these glasses & carry cheap reading glasses with me in case I needed to read something while away from my desk. I was talked into progressive lens with a range of 0.5 diopter to 2.0 diopter & that these would be perfect for computer work. These were useless for computer work because of the narrow intermediate focus channel. However I liked them for walking around so I took the glasses back & requested they be changed from polycarbonate to photo chromic glass so that I could where them outside also. I had heard that glass gets darker than Transitions plastic lenses. All they told me was that glass would be heavier but I did not mind that. I picked up the new glasses & as soon as I walked outside into bright sun the lenses barely changed. I searched the internet & within 5 minutes learned that photo chromic glass gets 50% as dark @ 80 degrees than at 40 degrees. One would think that an optician practicing in Arizona (114 degrees today) would have counseled me on that fact. So back to the internet I went and found several references stating that new Transitions lenses, while never getting as dark as regular sunglasses, would change dark in hoy weather. Back to the optician where they first tried to tell me that neither glass nor plastic would get very dark in heat. Regardless I insisted on changing to plastic Transitions lenses & am waiting for them to come in as I figure it can't be worse than glass & at least the plastic lenses are perfectly clear indoors whereas the glass had a slight gray tint. My question is, do labs re manufacture lens for opticians at no charge in instances of customer dissatisfaction or must they "eat" the expense of the lenses that I returned? The reason I ask is that the shop informed me that an additional charge of $41 would be required because my plan does not cover Transitions lenses. They figured out the cost of the latest pair of glasses(Transitions) & subtracted what I had originally paid for the returned lenses. However what they did not factor in was the $40 payment they received from my insurance for the polycarbonate lenses which I no longer am using. Insurance pays nothing for Transitions so it seems that this $40 does not belong to the optician since I ended up with lenses that I paid for. However, my point is, that if the optical shop "ate" any costs for the returning of 2 other pair of lenses, I think they should keep it. Sorry for the long post. Rich > Greetings, > Recently I purchased a new pair of glasses under my vision plan at work. I [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Sorry for the long post. > Rich Most brands of progressives come with a 30 day adaptation warranty (redo in non-progressive if you are not satisfied), or a free remake if there is a problem with the Rx or fitting. It would be much easier to just buy off the shelf readers for the computer. Save the progressives for driving so you can see the speedometer and the road clearly. I have computer glasses I use for the computer and around the house. Never had to mess with bifocals nor progressives >> Greetings, >> Recently I purchased a new pair of glasses under my vision plan at work. I [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > non-progressive if you are not satisfied), or a free remake if there is a > problem with the Rx or fitting. Yes, to me as the retail client they are not charging me for lenses I returned & I kept the progressives & only made them Transition sunglasses. My question is if the lab that the optician sends the prescription to charges the optician for every lens they grind or does the lab replace lenses free for the optician when changing lens to satisfy a client (for instance, in my case; progressive carbonate to photo chromic glass progressive to plastic Transitions progressive. Did the lab take back the lenses from the optician & change them only the difference between the older cheaper order & the new Transitions order?) Thanks for replying. Rich > Yes, to me as the retail client they are not charging me for lenses I > returned & I kept the progressives & only made them Transition sunglasses. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks for replying. > Rich The lab/manufacturer will normally allow a free remake of a progressive lens, including using a different material, if the customer is not satisfied with he first pair. So if you chose a more expensive material for the remake, then you should only pay the difference (and the retailer is only charged the difference). This is how it generally works, and there may be exceptions depending on the lab or lens manufacturer,or other circumstances. >> Yes, to me as the retail client they are not charging me for lenses I >> returned & I kept the progressives & only made them Transition sunglasses. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > This is how it generally works, and there may be exceptions depending on the > lab or lens manufacturer,or other circumstances. I am just trying to figure out if the original insurance payment of $40 (I co-payed $60) for progressive lenses was taken into effect. I was quoted an additional $125 for Transitions lenses. If that is a ballpark figure for non-progressive Transitions ( i.e. progressive transitions cost about $190) then the optical shop factored in the original insurance payment for progressive lenses & are not trying to pocket the difference. If the shop incurred additional lab charges for these changes then it wouldn't bother me. Thanks, Rich >> I am just trying to figure out if the original insurance payment of $40 > (I co-payed $60) for progressive lenses was taken into effect. I was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If the shop incurred additional lab charges for these changes then it > wouldn't bother me. $190 sounds about right, however it depends on where you live and how they price. Why not just ask the optician instead of second guessing them? Dr Judy >>> I am just trying to figure out if the original insurance payment of $40 >> (I co-payed $60) for progressive lenses was taken into effect. I was [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Dr Judy Actually I will ask them when I pick them up in a day or two & pay the difference. The one young gentleman there that I mostly dealt with was very polite & forthcoming with the pricing under my vision plan. I just wanted to be informed before analyzing the breakdown of charges. It's just that I have lost confidence in their professional knowledge. The optometrist there said progressives would be great for computer work...I found that to be totally false within 30 seconds of sitting in front of my computer. When I returned the first pair & requested photochromic glass lenses so I could use the glasses for general, non-computer use, the optician never advised me that in Arizona this old technology would barely change color in the 100+ degree heat. When I returned the photochromic glass lenses to switch to Transitions plastic, I was told by another optician there that Transitions would perform no better than the glass lenses. Since the glass lenses were virtually useless, I opted for Transitions anyway since they couldn't perform any worse in the heat. Furthermore, everything I read on the internet about Transitions' latest generation of lenses is that they are virtually clear indoors(the glass ones remained slightly gray), turn almost sunglass dark outside & were much less heat sensitive than silver halide glass & earlier generations of Transitions lenses. This leads me to two questions: Is this true? Do the latest available Transitions lenses perform as described above? And do different optical shops sell cheaper, earlier technology Transitions lenses or are only the latest generation manufactured? I am dealing with Sears optical. Thanks for any responses. Rich >Recently I purchased a new pair of glasses under my vision plan at work. >I am presbyopic(2 diopters reading) with a slight 0.5 diopter correction [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >useless for computer work because of the narrow intermediate focus >channel. However I liked them for walking around Personally, I normally recommend standard progressive lenses only for computer work *if* the amount of computer work you do is very limited (say checking your email at night or surfing the internet for <15 minutes). For someone who does a lot of computer work (say >2 hours a day) and likes progressive lenses, I typically recommend something like the Sola Access lens -- which basically is a progressive les with the computer distance at the top and reading distance at the bottom. >so I took the glasses back & requested they be changed from >polycarbonate to photo chromic glass so that I could where them >outside also. I had heard that glass gets darker than Transitions >plastic lenses. This is true. >All they told me was that glass would be heavier but I did not mind >that. This is also true. >I picked up the new glasses & as soon as I walked outside into bright >sun the lenses barely changed. Two things possible here: 1. The lenses are defective (unlikely). 2. They didn't just "barely change", rather "barely changed" really means "didn't get as nearly as dark as I expected them to get" (much more likely). For someone like you, I would take a sample Transitions lens outside and show you how dark/light it gets so you would have no surprise when your new lenses come in and would know exactly what to expect. >I searched the internet & within 5 minutes learned that photo chromic >glass gets 50% as dark @ 80 degrees than at 40 degrees. I don't remember the exact numbers but definitely photochromic lenses work best during bright cold days rather than bright hot days. >One would think that an optician practicing in Arizona (114 degrees >today) would have counseled me on that fact. The two most important things regarding photochromic lenses that I tell my patients are this: 1. They don't work well inside a car. IOW, if their main reason for getting photochromic lenses is to get away from needing sunglasses when they drive, I tell them they will be disappointed. 2. They get a medium darkness in most situations. If they are someone that requires a *dark* lenses, they will be much happier getting a pair of polaroid sunglasses. [I do tell them about them being temperature sensitive typically only if (from their history and questioning) I suspect that might be an issue.] >So back to the internet I went and found several references stating >that new Transitions lenses, while never getting as dark as regular >sunglasses, would change dark in hoy weather. Both plastic and glass change, and they both are temperature sensitive. If you are unhappy with glass photochromic (the best is Corning's Photogrey Thin-And-Dark rather than Photogrey Xtra) because it doesn't get dark enough, I would be willing to bet you will be unhappy with plastic photochromic lenses (the ones that get darkest are Corning's SunSensors rather than Transitions, but Transitions gets clearer indoors). >Back to the optician where they first tried to tell me that neither >glass nor plastic would get very dark in heat. Regardless I insisted Insisting is fine, but if you are unhappy then you should not expect another lens swap for free, because you are telling the doctor you want things done a certain way versus what he recommends. >on changing to plastic Transitions lenses & am waiting for them >to come in as I figure it can't be worse than glass & at least the >plastic lenses are perfectly clear indoors whereas the glass had a >slight gray tint. Plastic photochromic lenses don't get as dark as glass in nearly all cases. And the Transitions lenses are NOT perfectly clear indoors, although most (but NOT ALL) patients find them to be clear enough indoors. Someone like you I suspect would be happier with a pair of polaroid sunglasses. >My question is, do labs re manufacture lens for opticians at no charge >in instances of customer dissatisfaction or must they "eat" the expense >of the lenses that I returned? Depends on the lab and also depends on if/the type of vision insurance that was billed. One of my labs will allow one redo, no questions asked, for any job. Any redos beyond that are done at 50% of the standard invoice price. One of my labs charges full price for any redos. So why do I use the second lab ever? It charges about half the price for certain jobs versus the first lab. Some vision insurances allow one redo, no questions asked, while others only allow redos under certain circumstances, and others do not pay for any redos. >The reason I ask is that the shop informed me that an additional >charge of $41 would be required because my plan does not cover [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >optical shop "ate" any costs for the returning of 2 other pair of >lenses, I think they should keep it. If this is your SECOND redo, I think a $41 charge for the Transitions over photochromic glass is extremely fair. One more thing: When a patient gets to the point where they are going on their second redo, I do a lot of counseling. I sit down and tell them what to expect, show them demo lenses, trial frame the refraction, and show them other options. I do my very best to make sure they are fully informed, ask for feedback, and to make sure there are ZERO surprises when their new lenses come in. In my 13 years or so of being an OD, I get probably get one patient a year (or less) requiring a second redo. I have had one I recall (certainly no more than two) patients who required a third redo. This person was fully informed after their second redo and was still disappointed. She realized it was her fault because she insisted on making the lenses a certain way and had no problem paying for the lenses on the third redo. > >Recently I purchased a new pair of glasses under my vision plan at work. > >I am presbyopic(2 diopters reading) with a slight 0.5 diopter correction [quoted text clipped - 142 lines] > making the lenses a certain way and had no problem paying for the > lenses on the third redo. Thank you for your comprehensive & informative reply. I will not be asking for a re-do after I receive the Transitions lenses. I will accept them regardless of how they perform. This is because I cannot imagine that they can be any worse in heat than glass. I am willing to gamble $41 on that which I agree is reasonable. The question that remains is this: I have searched the internet for informations on Transitions lens. Consistently I have found the assertion that the latest version will perform in hot & cold weather. Some even state they get as dark as sunglasses(I don't expect this) but many do not make this claim. Is it possible that eyecare professionals who state that Transitions lenses will not perform better in heat have not had extensive experience with the latest evolution of these lenses & that they indeed do perform better? If I am not mistaken, it is a 5th generation of technology. How long has the latest generation been on the market? I understand that the darkening is an electromagnetic phenomenon that is slowed by heat. Could they have devised a work-around that mitigates this? These are just questions. I'll find out soon enough. Thanks again for your reply. Rich [snip] >The question that remains is this: I have searched the internet for >informations on Transitions lens. Consistently I have found the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >better in heat have not had extensive experience with the latest >evolution of these lenses & that they indeed do perform better? Probably not. IIRC, Transitions V (the latest version) was released in early 2004. So eyedoctors, and certainly opticians, should be very familiar with the product and how it performs. You have not mentioned the computer needs again in all of the posts. I am very hapy with my "CRT" lenses. Comapnies are making specific progressives for computer use. Over the years, may favorite two lenses have been the AO Technica and the Shamir Office lenses. Both lenses have your mid-range power lined up in front of your pupil and the reading is a the bottom. They also have the added feature that if you need to look at distance, you can drop your chin down and look across the room. If you are going to opt now to keep your new progreessives, your CRT distance lenses will probably be about half the add power (~1.00 to 1.25D) for the longer distance. Your optometrist should measure that specific distance for you. --Dr. Tom > Greetings, > Recently I purchased a new pair of glasses under my vision plan at work. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Sorry for the long post. > Rich > You have not mentioned the computer needs again in all of the posts. I > am very hapy with my "CRT" lenses. Comapnies are making specific [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > --Dr. Tom <snip> This sounds exactly what I need. How do they avoid the "channeling" effect of the mid-range focus area usually found with progressives? Or are they bi-focals? That is what I found to be useless about progressives for computer use. Thanks, Rich > ... I am very hapy with my "CRT" lenses. Comapnies are making specific > progressives for computer use. Over the years, may favorite two lenses [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > need to look at distance, you can drop your chin down and look across > the room. That seems very intriguing. But here I'd like to mention that, even with IOLs (equivalent to total presbyopia), I can see everything on my desk, including what I write, what I read, and my CRT screen (happens to be 15 in. diagonal), with single-vision reading glasses. My wife needs a bigger screen, necessarily at a greater distance, and therefore was told she needed special CRT eyeglasses, which she got but does not use. She uses an old pair of bifocals involving holding the chin quit up, but probably good exercise for certain neck muscles. I said I could get her some Zennis for her particular computer distance, but she does not wish to have anything cheap. Today, by dumb luck or possibly surgical skill, I can look over my lenses and see everything else in the room (as I am nakedly ~ 1D myopic). But up till surgery, I was quite myopic. Even then, after trying various things, I found that I was most comfortable for desk (and computer) work with single-vision reading glasses. True, however, that I needed to change eyeglasses to check out the girls on the other side of the office. > If you are going to opt now to keep your new progreessives, > your CRT distance lenses will probably be about half the add power > (~1.00 to 1.25D) for the longer distance. Your optometrist should > measure that specific distance for you. You should be able to figure it out if you can do simple arithmetic. If you are not flat-out presbyopic, you have some accommodative range. That, and depth-of-field, give some appreciable range of sharp vision. Maybe you would need an optometrist to guess the single-vision "add" for the most appropriate range (say 1 ft. to 3 ft.), but 1/d where d is the distance in meters between your eyes and the CRT (or whatever) screen would be a good place to start. Could cost $19 to find out if you have made the right choice. I cannot imagine any good reason for eyeglasses with separate (or seamless) panes for reading and computer-screen viewing, unless, like the eye-care junkies around here, you have an obsessive need for the dearest. -- Dicky > You have not mentioned the computer needs again in all of the posts. I > am very hapy with my "CRT" lenses. Comapnies are making specific [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > --Dr. Tom Do you have a link for the AO Technica manufacturer's web site? I believe it is AO American. I would like to read about their products & locate retail providers. From the low number of Shamir providers I assume they are high-end. Could you give me a ballpark price for each of these products? Thanks, Rich |
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