Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / Vision / June 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

will acuvvue oasys or advance 2 be okay for swimming?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Spockie Hendrick - 18 May 2006 12:17 GMT
will acuvvue oasys or advance 2 be okay for swimming?

i would like some contacts for swimming in the ocean
doctor_my_eye@msn.com - 18 May 2006 14:11 GMT
Salt water shrinks all soft contacts.  Soft lenses are between 1/3 and
2/3 water, and that water content is needed for the lens to hold its
shape.  Our "normal" tears are like normal saline, and have a little
bit of salt in them.  When we cry an emotional tear, the salt content
is much higher.  This is why soft contacts hurt more and misbehave when
you have been crying over the loss of a loved one, etc. Also, there is
an infection risk. Ocean water grows many microbes, plus your lenses
will stick like glue to your corneas.

Buy a really airtight goggle if you swim in soft contacts, and throw
them away after each swim.  If you are nearsighted and don't have a lot
of astigmatism there are ready-made swim goggles with minus lenses in
them from -1.00 to -6.00.  They retail for about 35 bucks and they are
worth every penny!
doctor_my_eye@msn.com - 18 May 2006 14:16 GMT
Here's a link to the website of the prescription swim goggle company.

http://www.hilco.com/catalog/catalog_browse.asp?ResultType=single&prodID=3226&ID
Type=internal

William Stacy - 18 May 2006 18:38 GMT
>  When we cry an emotional tear, the salt content
>is much higher.

Really?  I always thought the major lacrimals secreted a lower salinity
than that of the normal precorneal film.
Where does all that salt come from?  If it's stored up in the lacrimal
gland, it must deplete with continued crying, no?

> This is why soft contacts hurt more and misbehave when
>you have been crying over the loss of a loved one, etc.

I thought it was because of just the opposite, more dilute salinity in
the cry tears causing the cornea and contacts to take on too much fluid
and swell.

> Also, there is
>an infection risk. Ocean water grows many microbes, plus your lenses
>will stick like glue to your corneas.
>  

Infection risk in the ocean is pretty low.  The high salinity there is
strongly anti-microbial.
Like glue?  I would think low water lenses (like modern silicone based
ones) are less prone to osmotic dehydration, and unless swimming under
the surface with eyes open, not a big factor.

>Buy a really airtight goggle if you swim in soft contacts, and throw
>them away after each swim.  
>  

I don't think so, unless you happen to swim into a plume of recently
released  marine mammal excrement.

w.stacy, o.d.
Neil Brooks - 18 May 2006 19:21 GMT
Doctor_my_Eyes wrote:

>>Buy a really airtight goggle if you swim in soft contacts, and throw
>>them away after each swim.  

Bill Stacy replied:

>I don't think so, unless you happen to swim into a plume of recently
>released  marine mammal excrement.

Candidly ... not so much since Otis reduced his posting frequeny here
;-)
LarryDoc - 18 May 2006 18:14 GMT
> will acuvvue oasys or advance 2 be okay for swimming?
>
> i would like some contacts for swimming in the ocean

IMHO, silicone lenses provide a certain degree of safety for those who
swim with lenses on the eye.  They tend to not dehydrate in hypertonic
saline ocean water as much as other materials and therefore less likely
to adhere to the cornea. They are also less likely to harbor
pathogens--bacteria and viruses that are found (sadly at intolerable
levels in some places) in ocean water.

Lenses that have been exposed to ocean and even swimming pool water
should not *ever* *ever* be slept in without prior cleaning and
disinfection. For extra safety, remove lenses following swimming and
disinfect them prior to re-use.  For even better safety, use daily
disposable lenses and toss them (not in the ocean) after your swim.

The "official" rule is: do not swim with contact on. The safest route is
to use prescription swim goggles. But if you must, follow the guidelines
above.

LB, O.D.
Dr. Leukoma - 18 May 2006 18:43 GMT
> IMHO, silicone lenses provide a certain degree of safety for those who
> swim with lenses on the eye.  They tend to not dehydrate in hypertonic
> saline ocean water as much as other materials and therefore less likely
> to adhere to the cornea. They are also less likely to harbor
> pathogens--bacteria and viruses that are found (sadly at intolerable
> levels in some places) in ocean water.

Studies show that acanthamoeba has a prediliction for attachment to
silicone-hydrogel lenses.  What this means in terms of infection is not
clear at this time.  However, I would not want to be wearing a lens
that had attracted thousands of little amoebic organisms from swimming.

DrG
Neil Brooks - 18 May 2006 19:23 GMT
>> IMHO, silicone lenses provide a certain degree of safety for those who
>> swim with lenses on the eye.  They tend to not dehydrate in hypertonic
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>clear at this time.  However, I would not want to be wearing a lens
>that had attracted thousands of little amoebic organisms from swimming.

Mmmmm.  Data.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1
6360208&dopt=Abstract


OR: http://tinyurl.com/p5mvj

Attachment of Acanthamoeba to first- and second-generation silicone
hydrogel contact lenses.

Beattie TK, Tomlinson A, McFadyen AK.

Department of Vision Sciences, Glasgow Caledonian University, Glasgow,
Scotland, United Kingdom. t.k.beattie@gcal.ac.uk

PURPOSE: To investigate the attachment of Acanthamoeba to first- and
second-generation silicone hydrogel contact lenses, and to determine
if patient wear or the presence of a bacterial biofilm coating affects
attachment characteristics. DESIGN: Experimental study. PARTICIPANTS
AND CONTROLS: Attachment to the silicone hydrogel lenses was compared
with that to a conventional hydrogel control lens. Sixteen replicates
(n = 16) were carried out for unworn, worn, and biofilm-coated lenses
of each type. METHODS: Unworn, worn, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa
biofilm-coated first-generation (lotrafilcon A) and second-generation
(galyfilcon A) silicone hydrogel and conventional hydrogel (etafilcon
A) lens quarters were incubated for 90 minutes in suspensions of
plate-cultured Acanthamoeba castellanii trophozoites. MAIN OUTCOME
MEASURES: Trophozoites attached to one surface of each lens quarter
were counted by direct light microscopy. Logarithmic transformation of
data allowed the use of parametric analysis of variance for
statistical analysis. RESULTS: Attachment of Acanthamoeba was affected
significantly by lens material type (P<0.001), with higher numbers of
trophozoites attaching to the first-generation lotrafilcon A silicone
hydrogel lens, compared with the second-generation galyfilcon A lens
and the conventional hydrogel lens. Attachments to the latter 2 lenses
did not differ significantly from each other (P = 0.126). Patient wear
and the presence of a bacterial biofilm had no significant effect on
attachment to the lotrafilcon A lens (P = 0.426) but did significantly
increase attachment to the galyfilcon A (P<0.001) and the etafilcon A
(P = 0.009) lenses; attachment to the latter 2 lenses was still
significantly less than that found with the first-generation silicone
hydrogel (P<0.001). CONCLUSIONS: Acanthamoeba demonstrated a
significantly greater affinity for the first-generation silicone
hydrogel lens as compared with the second-generation silicone hydrogel
and the conventional hydrogel. If exposed to Acanthamoeba (e.g., when
showering or swimming, through noncontinuous wear and ineffective lens
care regimes), first-generation silicone hydrogel lenses may promote a
greater risk of Acanthamoeba infection due to the enhanced attachment
characteristics of this lens material. However, prospective studies in
patients are required to determine if these experimental results are
clinically significant.
retinula@hotmail.com - 18 May 2006 22:10 GMT
nice find on the abstract Neil!  new information for me!

wouldn't one expect that overnight hydrogen peroxide treatment (e.g.
ClearCare) might appropriatedly disinfect SiHy lenses that were worn
for swimming?  i usually recommend that but i admittedly haven't seen
any proof that it actually works (for bacteria, acanthamoeba, and other
organisms).  anyone know or have an opinion?

==========

> >> IMHO, silicone lenses provide a certain degree of safety for those who
> >> swim with lenses on the eye.  They tend to not dehydrate in hypertonic
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> patients are required to determine if these experimental results are
> clinically significant.
Dr. Leukoma - 18 May 2006 22:45 GMT
> nice find on the abstract Neil!  new information for me!
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> any proof that it actually works (for bacteria, acanthamoeba, and other
> organisms).  anyone know or have an opinion?

Actually, I'm glad you asked.  Some 15 or so years ago, during THE
acanthamoeba scare, I remember receiving an advisory from the
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center about appropriate lens
disinfection.  The advisory recommended a minimum 6 hour soak in 3%
hydrogen peroxide to kill the acanthamoeba trophozoa and spores.
Unfortunately, with commercially available hydrogen peroxide systems,
the concentration begins to drop immediately as soon as the peroxide
comes into contact with the catalyst.

However, the Optifree solution with Aldox also kills acanthamoeba
spores following a 6 hour exposure.

DrG
Neil Brooks - 18 May 2006 22:58 GMT
>> nice find on the abstract Neil!  new information for me!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>However, the Optifree solution with Aldox also kills acanthamoeba
>spores following a 6 hour exposure.

After the Renu MoistureLoc thing, I got smart/silly/scared/wise and
bought the PuriLens system (no financial interest, blah, blah, blah).
The few studies I saw seemed to indicate pretty good efficacy against
most of the creepy-crawlies ... except ... of course ...
acanthamoeiba.

Not sure I really plan to be *that* careful or *that* meticulous, BUT
... if I did swim in the ocean, I would likely use a "standard"
chemical method in addition.

So far, the PuriLens seems to do a heck of a job taking my potential
exhaustion/laziness out of the equation and maintaining at least a
high (if not ultimate) level of cleanliness and sterility.

The whole "15 minutes" thing, too ... neat.

Kind of wonder, by the way, whether a *second* 15-minute cycle would
be any more effective against acanthamoeba than just one go.....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=14722469&query_hl=13&itool=pubmed_docsum


OR: http://tinyurl.com/ord42

Disinfection capacity of PuriLens contact lens cleaning unit against
Acanthamoeba.

Hwang TS, Hyon JY, Song JK, Reviglio VE, Spahr HT, O'Brien TP.

Ocular Microbiology and Immunology Laboratory, The Wilmer Eye
Institute, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, 600 North
Wolfe Street, Woods 259, Baltimore, MD 21287-9121, USA.

PURPOSE: The PuriLens contact lens system is indicated for cleaning
and disinfection of soft (hydrophilic) contact lenses by means of
subsonic agitation to remove lens deposits and microorganisms, and
ultraviolet irradiation of the storage solution for disinfection. The
capacity of the PuriLens system to disinfect storage solutions
contaminated with known concentrations of Staphylococcus aureus,
Pseudomonas aeruginosa, and Acanthamoeba species was evaluated.
METHODS: An in vitro assessment of the antibacterial and antiparasitic
efficacy of the PuriLens system was performed. Separated batches of
the storage solution for the cleansing system were contaminated with
stock strains of S. aureus and P. aeruginosa. A comparison of the
microbiologic content was made between the solution before and after
the cycle. RESULTS: The PuriLens system effectively eradicated S.
aureus and P. aeruginosa organisms after a 15-minute cycle. However,
viable cysts of acanthamoeba were recovered in the solution after the
15-minute cycle. CONCLUSIONS: The PuriLens system is highly efficient
in protecting against contamination with common bacterial ocular
pathogens. Acanthamoeba cysts, however, can survive in the solution or
contact lens bath undergoing integrated subsonic debridement and
indirect ultraviolet light disinfection. Use of chemical disinfecting
solutions that contain agents such as chlorhexidine or other cationic
antiseptics may be advisable in conjunction with use of the PuriLens
device, especially in high-risk settings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=10946984&query_hl=13&itool=pubmed_docsum


OR: http://tinyurl.com/p82fk

Evaluation of the PuriLens contact lens care system: an automatic care
system incorporating UV disinfection and hydrodynamic shear cleaning.

Choate W, Fontana F, Potter J, Schachet J, Shaw R, Soulsby M, White E.

Department of Physiology and Biophysics, University of Arkansas for
Medical Sciences, Little Rock 72205, USA.

PURPOSE: This study evaluates lens care using the PuriLens System, an
advanced way to clean and disinfect soft hydrophilic lenses using
subsonic agitation and UV radiation, respectively. METHODS: A
two-period crossover lens cleaning and safety investigation was
conducted using 80 patients. Disinfecting efficacy was tested in
accordance with standard FDA protocols. Lens compatibility was studied
with Group I and Group IV lenses during the equivalent of a 6-month
care regimen by measuring: lens power, base curve, wet diameter,
refractive index, clarity, and tint. Safety was evaluated through
slit-lamp findings, wearing time, comfort, and visual acuity. RESULTS:
The mean wearing time of patients in the study was 13.79 hours. No
slit lamp findings greater than grade 2 were noted. Visual acuity was
20/25 or better in 92.5% of examinations. None of the patients lost
more than two lines of acuity. Lens surface evaluation showed no
deposits (grade 0) to very slight deposits (grade 1) in 94.4% of
examinations. Lenses cleaned with the PuriLens System were cleaner by
a statistically significant margin (P=0.02) compared to lenses
digitally cleaned with a leading multi-purpose solution (ReNu, Bausch
& Lomb). Overall, neither the Group I nor Group IV lenses were
affected after 180 cleaning cycles. CONCLUSIONS: The PuriLens System
provides automatic lens care compliance, superior antimicrobial
efficacy, and eliminates the need for daily digital cleaning.
CatmanX - 18 May 2006 22:46 GMT
The better option would be to buy a set of dailies and use them. Once
you get to waist depth, squint your eyes a bit and splash some water on
the lenses. This will tighten them and stop them from coming off.

I have a few ocean swimmers and triathletes as patients and this is the
procedure we use. Discard the lenses after swimming.\

dr grant
Anon E. Muss - 22 May 2006 23:23 GMT
>Studies show that acanthamoeba has a prediliction for attachment to
>silicone-hydrogel lenses.

In vitro or in vivo?

Most eye doctors will never see a case of acanthomeba keratitis in the
course of their entire career, so I think the risk is quite low.

Of course, not swimming in your contacts is safest, but does one want
to be a caricature of caution?
Dr. Leukoma - 23 May 2006 05:09 GMT
> >Studies show that acanthamoeba has a prediliction for attachment to
> >silicone-hydrogel lenses.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Most eye doctors will never see a case of acanthomeba keratitis in the
> course of their entire career, so I think the risk is quite low.

True, but I saw four cases in a 6 month period two years ago.

> Of course, not swimming in your contacts is safest, but does one want
> to be a caricature of caution?

You should speak to the mother who emailed me today about her
daughter's experience with acanthamoeba keratitis and 3 subsequent
corneal transplants.  I'm pretty sure how she would answer your
question.

DrG
Anon E. Muss - 23 May 2006 05:55 GMT
>> >Studies show that acanthamoeba has a prediliction for attachment to
>> >silicone-hydrogel lenses.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>True, but I saw four cases in a 6 month period two years ago.

Regardless, acanthamoeba keratitis is extremely rare -- especially if
you do not work in large University setting or major referral center.
Even more so since people stopped preparing their own saline with
water and tablets.

>> Of course, not swimming in your contacts is safest, but does one want
>> to be a caricature of caution?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>corneal transplants.  I'm pretty sure how she would answer your
>question.

Regardless, the incidence of acanthamoebal keratitis is extremely low
(less than 1 in 1.6 MILLION!)

When I educate patients, I do NOT recommend people swim in their
lenses.  But I give them the REALISTIC risk of developing an
infection.  After that, patients make up their mind whether they
choose to swim in their lenses or not <-- informed consent.

As an OD, have no undue fear about personally swimming in my silicone
hydrogel contact lenses.  The risk of severe injury by car accident or
cancer is much greater.  Everyone has their comfort zone.
Dr. Leukoma - 23 May 2006 13:01 GMT
> Regardless, the incidence of acanthamoebal keratitis is extremely low
> (less than 1 in 1.6 MILLION!)

I think you are in need of updating your numbers, which reflect the
annual incidence in the overall population.  Contact lens wearer is one
of the chief risk factors for this disease.  The updated incidence is 1
in 30,000 soft contact lens wearers per year.

> When I educate patients, I do NOT recommend people swim in their
> lenses.  But I give them the REALISTIC risk of developing an
> infection.  After that, patients make up their mind whether they
> choose to swim in their lenses or not <-- informed consent.

Then, you should be telling them that their risk of contracting the
disease is 1 in 30,000 per year, which will go up significantly if they
swim in their lenses, rinse them with non-sterile solution, or fail to
disinfect them properly.

> As an OD, have no undue fear about personally swimming in my silicone
> hydrogel contact lenses.  The risk of severe injury by car accident or
> cancer is much greater.  Everyone has their comfort zone.

Cancer may not be preventable, but acanthamoeba keratitis is highly
preventable if patients avoid the major risk factors, which include
swimming in their contact lenses (34%), and failure to disinfect their
lenses (62%).

DrG
http://www.copfameye.com
Anon E. Muss - 23 May 2006 16:28 GMT
>> Regardless, the incidence of acanthamoebal keratitis is extremely low
>> (less than 1 in 1.6 MILLION!)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>of the chief risk factors for this disease.  The updated incidence is 1
>in 30,000 soft contact lens wearers per year.

Correct.

>> When I educate patients, I do NOT recommend people swim in their
>> lenses.  But I give them the REALISTIC risk of developing an
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>swim in their lenses, rinse them with non-sterile solution, or fail to
>disinfect them properly.

I go over rare things such as acanthamoebal keratitis very quickly.  I
have been spending a lot more time lately answering questions about
fusarium keratitis which is also *extremely* rare.

I *emphasize* and spend more time on the more common conditions and
risk factors such as bacterial keratitis/GPC and extended wear/proper
lens care/hygiene.

>> As an OD, have no undue fear about personally swimming in my silicone
>> hydrogel contact lenses.  The risk of severe injury by car accident or
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>swimming in their contact lenses (34%), and failure to disinfect their
>lenses (62%).

Still, the risk is extremely low.

Contact lens wear, in and of itself, is a huge risk factor for
acanthamoebal keratitis.  I am more concerned with endophthalmitis (no
more than 1 in 3,000) after cataract surgery or iatrogenic corneal
ectasia after LASIK than acanthamoebal keratitis due to swimming in
contact lenses.

Some patients are willing to accept that risk, some are not after
given the epidemiology, natural history and risk factors.

Good discussion.
Dr. Leukoma - 23 May 2006 17:45 GMT
> Still, the risk is extremely low.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Good discussion.

I agree, except that we don't really know what the risk is for people
who routinely swim in their lenses.  It could be 1 in 500.

Overall, contact lens wear is the least risky form of vision correction
other than wearing spectacles.

DrG
William Stacy - 23 May 2006 19:26 GMT
I think it would make a huge difference WHERE they are swimming.  To me,
swimming in the ocean is very safe for your eyes (only) due to the
antimicrobial effect of strong saline, more risky in private swimming
pools, riskier yet in public pools, very risky in hot tubs, and
extremely risky in freshwater ponds.

w.stacy, o.d.

> I agree, except that we don't really know what the risk is for people
> who routinely swim in their lenses.  It could be 1 in 500.
Dr. Leukoma - 23 May 2006 20:44 GMT
I'm not aware of any studies that would either support or contradict
your view.  I know that one study of acanthamoeba claimed that the risk
was greater if the water was soft rather than hard.  Then someone came
along and debunked that idea.  If acanthamoeba didn't like salt water,
then they wouldn't inhabit the salty environment of contact lens
solutions.

I think that the risks need to be clearly spelled out, and that
patients who insist on swimming in contact lenses avail themselves of
daily disposables so that the lenses can be thrown away.  There is also
the role of hypoxia and corneal integrity, and extended wear may also
enter the mix as a risk factor.  You can only go so far to warn people.

DrG
William Stacy - 23 May 2006 23:44 GMT
I doubt a study is needed on the disinfecting properties of strong
saline the sea as compared to the exceedingly weak salines of tears
and/or ophthalmic solutions, or even saline swimming pools (which are
also of the "normal" saline variety). Certainly if it were not the case,
the oceans would be teeming with all kinds of bacteria, which they are
not. Normal saline is under 1%, sea water is at least 3.5% salt.

Here's a quote from:

http://141.150.157.117:8080/prokPUB/chaphtm/004/04_04.htm

"High salt concentrations represent a special case of low water
activity. Sea water (aw = 0.98) is not tolerated by the majority of
bacteria living in soil and in fresh water. Ecosystems containing salt
(sodium chloride) at saturating concentrations are inhabited by only a
few organisms."

w.stacy, o.d.

> I'm not aware of any studies that would either support or contradict
> your view.  I know that one study of acanthamoeba claimed that the risk
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> DrG
Dr. Leukoma - 24 May 2006 00:04 GMT
I am talking about acanthamoeba, not bacteria.  Just Google on the
search terms of acanthamoeba and salt water and see how many hits you
get.   Quite a few (I didn't count).

DrG
William Stacy - 24 May 2006 00:45 GMT
Of course they grow very well in NORMAL saline, and the tons of articles
are mostly about normal saline, not brine.  I'm sure they can survive up
to a certain amount of salinity, but I'm just betting they don't do well
in the open ocean.

w.stacy, o.d.

> I am talking about acanthamoeba, not bacteria.  Just Google on the
> search terms of acanthamoeba and salt water and see how many hits you
> get.   Quite a few (I didn't count).
>
> DrG
Dr. Leukoma - 24 May 2006 04:29 GMT
Then type in the search terms "acanthamoeba and ocean water."  You will
get the same number of hits.  The size of your corner is getting ever
smaller.

DrG
Dan Abel - 24 May 2006 17:01 GMT
> Then type in the search terms "acanthamoeba and ocean water."  You will
> get the same number of hits.  The size of your corner is getting ever
> smaller.

Many people believe that life evolved in the ocean.  Go to any large
aquarium (I've mostly been to the Monterrey Bay Aquarium, a fascinating
place) and see how many critters live in salt water.  Some are filter
feeders, living on microscopic organisms.  A theory is that the
concentration of salt in our blood matches that of the ocean at the time
we evolved.

Signature

Dan Abel
dabel@sonic.net
Petaluma, California, USA

LarryDoc - 24 May 2006 17:47 GMT
I have to make a strong case for the risks of ocean water. At least here
in Southern Cal, and especially after the rains wash tons of human and
animal excretement, dead carcasses and agricultural waste into the
ocean---well, not a good time to be getting that water in your eyes or
any body orafice.  Beaches are routinely posted "avoid contact with
ocean water---may cause illness."  Ear infection, eye infection, fever
and cough, cases of Hep A and even B, colitis, vomiting and "the big D".
Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs but real.

I get my arsenal of antibiotic eye drops and referral documents to MDs
ready and away we go. It does not please me that contaminated ocean
water is good for my business.  

I ALWAYS make it quite clear that swimming with contact lenses on the
eye is a risk that MUST be mitigated by either not doing it, using
single-use lenses or careful disinfection following ocean water contact.
And NEVER EVER sleep in those same lenses that day and prior to
disinfection.

Yet that being said, I have had but a handful of patients who have
experienced cornea pathology as a possible result of water sports and
zero have lost any vision.  Then again I routinely dismiss (eg: "go find
another doctor") patients who are non compliant with lens hygiene and
replacement protocols.

LB, O.D.

PS: Doc (apparently) Anon E Mus:  feel free to be who you are. We don't
bite.
William Stacy - 25 May 2006 14:46 GMT
> Then type in the search terms "acanthamoeba and ocean water."  You will
> get the same number of hits.  The size of your corner is getting ever
> smaller.
>
> DrG

Using the following google searches, I get the indicated # of hits:

acanthamoeba and salt water  24700

acanthamoeba and sea water  29000

acanthamoeba and "salt water" 1340

acanthamoeba and "sea water" 864

It is very important when doing such searches to place in quotes key
word pairs.  The following quote is from the first hit on the last search:

Acanthamoebae have also been isolated from salt water of low salinity,
presumably from cysts. One author (AR) has never managed to maintain
'marine strains' on full salinity media for more than a few generations.

I still say that swimming in the ocean is very safe for the eyes, except
possibly near active sewage inlets.

w.stacy, o.d.
Dr. Leukoma - 25 May 2006 15:23 GMT
> > Then type in the search terms "acanthamoeba and ocean water."  You will
> > get the same number of hits.  The size of your corner is getting ever
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> w.stacy, o.d.

Who cares just so long as the fact remains that acanthamoeba are
present in the ocean, as is evident within the first page of returns.
They are also present in soil.  There are also strains of bacteria that
have adapted quite well to not only the salinity of the ocean, but also
survive at great depths.  In a related topic, in reading about methods
of food preservation, it is generally accepted that a minimum
concentration of 10% sodium chloride is necessary.

So, given those facts, if someone still wants to wear their contacts in
the ocean instead of wearing prescription goggles, then I am not going
to give it my blessing.  They assume the risk solely and completely.
If they want to have LASIK so that they don't have to worry about any
of this, then that is another set of risks.

DrG
William Stacy - 25 May 2006 18:47 GMT
> Who cares just so long as the fact remains that acanthamoeba are
> present in the ocean,

Anyone who is interested in the science behind the professions.

 They assume the risk solely and completely.

What a joke.  Tell *that* to the jury.

w.stacy, o.d.
mb - 01 Jun 2006 17:31 GMT
> I'm not aware of any studies that would either support or contradict
> your view.  I know that one study of acanthamoeba claimed that the risk
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> DrG
mb - 01 Jun 2006 17:39 GMT
> > >Studies show that acanthamoeba has a prediliction for attachment to
> > >silicone-hydrogel lenses.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> DrG

I am the mother who Dr. G spoke to several weeks ago.  I share the
following information with you.  There is a risk with swimming in
contacts.  The problem is consumers are not fully aware of this risk.
We should be fully informed and if you want to take that risk, go
ahead, but let us know ALL the risks.

There is an increasing trend of Acanthamoeba infections in the last
several years in certain areas in this country. Some of our
ophthalmologists are very concerned. This infection has been more
common abroad because of the older water systems. Acanthamoeba is
ubiquitous in nature. It is in our tap water, lakes, pools, hot tubs,
air, soil. Most contact lens solutions do not kill Acanthamoeba even in
the required disinfectant times. Prevention and education is critical
to keep our eyes safe. We need to question why it is on the FDA website
that you do not swim with contacts yet most consumers are clueless
about this risk as well as our eye health practitioners. We also need
to question why a non-prescription contact lens was deregulated and
sold in dolllar stores for four years. Our youth started getting this
infection. Prevent Blindness Amercia and other concerned eye health
organizations had to draft legislation, which was passed this year
after pending in Congress for two years, to make it illegal to
prescribe any contact lens without going through a licensed eye
practitioner.

I make these statements and have become involved in eye health advocacy
because my daugther who was fourteen at the time contracted
Acanthamoeba keratitis when she swam with her contacts. She battled
this infection for two years and received three corneal transplants.
The parasite simply would not die. Medical therapies were astronomical
not to mention her pain and suffering. She is now bug free, but her
vision in her left eye has been compromised the rest of her life. You
can read her story on the Prevent Blindness America website, "Eyes on
Capitol Hill" and her advocacy efforts when she told her story to
legislators and the importance of the Vision Preservation Act,
legislation that must be passed. Please write your Congressman
supporting this legislation. 15-20 years ago you just lost your eye as
we had no medical therapies to fight this parasite. At the time, I
sought out other people who also had this infection as I felt very
alone and needed support. We have formed a support group called MAAD
(Mothers Against Acanthamoeba Disease). I believe this is the only
support group of its kind in this country. Please read these stories of
our other MAAD group members who have suffered this tragedy. We want to
be involved to protect and support other people as we would not wish
this infection on our worst enemies.

Our eyesight is too precious not to be protected.

mary beth
William Stacy - 01 Jun 2006 20:42 GMT
my daugther who was fourteen at the time contracted
> Acanthamoeba keratitis when she swam with her contacts.

Can you share with us where she was swimming?  (pool, pond, ocean?)

thanks

w.stacy, o.d.
mb - 01 Jun 2006 21:48 GMT
> my daugther who was fourteen at the time contracted
>  > Acanthamoeba keratitis when she swam with her contacts.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> w.stacy, o.d.

She swam in a self enclosed private lake which included a pond.  When
she was finally diagnosed correctly, our doctor said it was a slow
growing infection to start and slow to leave.  She first was diagnosed
with pink eye for two weeks.  Did not get to the right doctor for about
5-6 weeks, by that time it was out of control and burrowed deeper into
her cornea.
LarryDoc - 01 Jun 2006 21:14 GMT
> I am the mother who Dr. G spoke to several weeks ago.  I share the
> following information with you.  There is a risk with swimming in
> contacts.  The problem is consumers are not fully aware of this risk.
> We should be fully informed and if you want to take that risk, go
> ahead, but let us know ALL the risks.

Dr. G and I agree with you, of course.  We make every effort to
carefully educate our patients about the risks and ways to mitigate
them. The contact industry has responded by producing lenses that have
less impact on cornea physiology and disinfection products that do the
job.  Our peer journals have articles addressing this issue, most
recently this month: the big cover story in one such journal. We hear
the warnings and advice at continuing education seminars. Most
professional and competent eye doctors do indeed tell their patients how
to manage their eye care. Helping to keep our patient's eyes healthy is
our job and ethical responsibility, not to mention it's good for
business.

But the wearer must take the ultimate responsibility to "do the right
thing" after they are fully informed and this, I think is where the
problem lies.

Save a buck, stretch out the longevity of the lens, re-use (or don't
use) appropriate lens care products, re-order lenses by mail without a
prescription and without routine eye doctor visits, dig in the garden
and forget about washing up before handling lenses, ignore symptoms of
things gone wrong until it's too late.

There's only so much education and hand-holding we can do.

The problem is not with the contact lenses but with how they are used
and handled. Look at the recent fungus scare. Less than a dozen people
with "severe" problems and a hundred or so affected people out of 30
million regular contact lens wearers is an issue blown way out of
proportion. The reality of thousands of people with completely avoidable
and preventable "minor "eye health issues that can escalate to "serious"
and resulting from poor lens fitting or lens care is a major concern.

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. Your advocacy will help to
prevent these kinds of tragedies from affecting others. It's been
difficult to get the US federal and state governments to do their part.
We try. You are trying. Thanks for your efforts.

LB, O.D.
mb - 01 Jun 2006 21:58 GMT
> > I am the mother who Dr. G spoke to several weeks ago.  I share the
> > following information with you.  There is a risk with swimming in
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> LB, O.D.

I highly dispute your statement, this issue was "blown out of
proportion."  First of all, you NEVER would have even heard about this
fusarium outbreak if the Singapore health ministry did not demand
answers and pull this product from the market.  That is the only reason
why the CDC and FDA stepped in.  These infections would have continued
to occur.  This product was NEVER tested for its efficacy against
fusarium yet it was allowed to be purchased by consumers with the FDA's
stamp of approval.  The company blatantly admitted this.  If there was
one death with this product, it would have been pulled from the market,
yet 200 people going blind is nothing?  If your own child was affected
with this infection or Acanthamoeba, I am sure your mindset would be
different.

mb
Anonymous - 02 Jun 2006 00:14 GMT
>This product was NEVER tested for its efficacy against
>fusarium yet it was allowed to be purchased by consumers with the
>FDA's stamp of approval.  The company blatantly admitted this.

I don't know if this was true, but it wouldn't be surprising.

Fusarium is/was an extremely rare cause of keratitis.  Like
acanthamoeba, most eye doctors will never see even ONE case of these
in their entire career.

For a contact lens solution to be tested against every potential
pathogen was unrealistic.  However, that may change now.

>If there was one death with this product, it would have been pulled
>from the market, yet 200 people going blind is nothing?

Where do you get this number?  200 people being affected is certainly
not necessarily the same as 200 people "going blind".  The vast
majority of people with acanthamoeba or fungal keratitis certainly do
NOT go blind.
mb - 02 Jun 2006 02:03 GMT
> >This product was NEVER tested for its efficacy against
> >fusarium yet it was allowed to be purchased by consumers with the
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> majority of people with acanthamoeba or fungal keratitis certainly do
> NOT go blind.

If one person goes blind because of a faulty product, that is very sad.
A corneal transplant will affect your vision the rest of your life.
Below is one man who trusted a product he was putting in his eye.

On May 15, 2006 the FDA issued a press release stating: "Based on this
scientific and epidemiological data suggesting that ReNu with
MoistureLoc may increase susceptibility to Fusarium, Bausch & Lomb has
decided to permanently remove the ReNu with MoistureLoc product
worldwide." The recall followed Bausch & Lomb's conclusion that the
product's formula may increase the risk of fungal eye infections in
certain situations. Bausch & Lomb, Inc. and the FDA both acknowledged
there is a problem in the chemical properties of ReNu with MoistureLoc
after testing confirmed that the solution allows a polymer film to form
around the Fusarium fungus, preventing the disinfectant in the product
from killing the fungus.

The injured party, who resides in upstate New York, was diagnosed with
a fungal infection in his left eye in October 2005, and was referred to
a cornea specialist at Columbia Presbyterian in New York City. The
specialist performed a corneal confocal microscope exam and several
biopsies, which confirmed the diagnosis of Fusarium keratitis. The
specialist notified the plaintiff that a cornea transplant would be
necessary. Because the transplant procedure could not be performed
until the infection was under control, the victim was prescribed
voriconazole, a potent anti-fungal medication, which had to be
administered approximately every 2 hours, 24 hours each day, over the
course of several months. After the infection appeared to be under
control, the cornea transplant procedure was performed. During the
cornea transplant surgery, additional signs of the fungal infection
were discovered. This later led to approximately 5 flush-out surgeries,
which involved accessing the back of the left eye through an incision
in order to remove additional evidence of the Fusarium fungal
infection. The infection returned following the flush-out surgeries,
requiring the victim to undergo a lengthy and invasive surgery with the
following procedures performed on his left eye: lensectomy,
capsulectomy, removal of the iris, removal of vitreous fluid, and
removal of the fungal infection. The victim is left with only 15%
vision in his left eye and is currently awaiting FDA approval for an
iris transplant.
Anon E. Muss - 02 Jun 2006 06:45 GMT
>> >This product was NEVER tested for its efficacy against
>> >fusarium yet it was allowed to be purchased by consumers with the
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>If one person goes blind because of a faulty product, that is very sad.

Yes, but you are flat-out distorting the truth rather than engaging in
hyoerbole.

Also, we are talking semantics here, but I hardly think "Renu with
MoisturLoc" (RWM) was a "faulty product".

And there still is no determind direct cause/effect relationship with
fusarium keratitis and RWM -- i.e., there has still not been a "this
is what caused the problem" revealed cause.  But initial and
subsequent reports DO suggest an extremely strong association.

FWIW, and this is just my opinion, I think that there is probably
something in the RWM formulation that either doesn't kill fusarium
well or something in it that works like culture medium for fusarium --
just like the below FDA press release states.

And once again, I do not fault B&L for producing a product that
perhaps was not tested (adequately) against fusarium.  It was (and is)
a rare pathogen.  But you can bet any FUTURE product better be tested
against it!

> A corneal transplant will affect your vision the rest of your life.

This is true, but having (to have) a penetrating keratoplasty (PKP)
does not mean the same thing as having gone blind.  And one person
going blind is not the same as "200 people going blind."

>Below is one man who trusted a product he was putting in his eye.

One man going blind in ONE eye is unfortunate, but let's not make a
mountain out of a molehill here.  From all initial reports, I think
B&L acted in good faith, did everything they should have, and there is
(from what I can tell) *no negligence* on their part.  Just BAD LUCK.

However, with the limited brain power of the average juror (if brains
were dynamite, they couldn't blow their nose), I wouldn't be surprised
if they award this guy trillions of dollars.  It happened to Mark
Speaker
(<http://www.crstoday.com/PDF%20Articles/1005/CRST1005_F4_Kopff.html>).

[Partial quote from <http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/1193> SNIPed]
mb - 02 Jun 2006 15:17 GMT
> >> >This product was NEVER tested for its efficacy against
> >> >fusarium yet it was allowed to be purchased by consumers with the
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
> [Partial quote from <http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/1193> SNIPed]

Maybe they should have disclosed on their product, this solution may
cause a "rare" infection which could result in blindness.  And we
haven't bothered to test this product against this fungus either.
However, the risk is less than .01%, but if you are a bad luck person,
this could happen to you.
Quick - 02 Jun 2006 18:08 GMT
> Maybe they should have disclosed on their product, this
> solution may cause a "rare" infection which could result
> in blindness.  And we haven't bothered to test this
> product against this fungus either. However, the risk is
> less than .01%, but if you are a bad luck person, this
> could happen to you.

So some people are using the term "cause". Is it that
the solution "may *cause* a 'rare' infection" or is it the
case that it may not prevent it. Is there a difference?

-Quick
LarryDoc - 02 Jun 2006 19:00 GMT
> > Maybe they should have disclosed on their product, this
> > solution may cause a "rare" infection which could result
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> -Quick

You bet.

Or, more accurately:

In the incredibly unusual situation in which a contact lens wearer
handles fusarium fungus contaminated soil (which exists only in certain
specific climate zones) and fails to wash their hands prior to handling
their contact lenses, and then uses MoisturLoc solution (no longer
available) and subsequently develops symptoms of infection, and then
ignores those symptoms for a period of time prior to seeking medical
care from a doctor who misdiagnoses the causative organism for the
infection, then that person will be at risk for possibly permanent loss
of vision in the affected eye.

Still, the risk of death from being struck by lightening while holding a
golf club while standing on the green in a middle of thunderstorm is
possibly greater than that of blindness from fusarium.

Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf standing in the
pouring rain with lightening all around. And pretty negligent digging in
the dirt and not washing up before sticking their fingers in the eye.

All of which is easily prevented by simple wearing plus lenses!

LB, O.D.
Quick - 02 Jun 2006 19:34 GMT
> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf
> standing in the pouring rain with lightening all around.
> And pretty negligent digging in the dirt and not washing
> up before sticking their fingers in the eye.

Ummm, I'll agree with the dirt part. Pouring rain with a
bit of lightening has to be weighed against finishing this
round so you can make the tee time for your afternoon
round at the other course...

-Quick
Dr. Leukoma - 02 Jun 2006 20:24 GMT
> > Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf
> > standing in the pouring rain with lightening all around.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> -Quick

...or, you could get struck by lightening and contract fusarium from
lying face down in a mud puddle afterwards.

DrG
mb - 02 Jun 2006 20:53 GMT
> > > Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf
> > > standing in the pouring rain with lightening all around.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> DrG

I needed a good laugh.  You guys a tooooo funny.  Go play some golf,
but before that...

explain to me how a 16 year old contracts this fusarium infection in
the dead of winter in North Dakota using this product when at the time
they claimed you could only get it in tropical climates?
Quick - 03 Jun 2006 00:15 GMT
>>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf
>>>> standing in the pouring rain with lightening all
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> this product when at the time they claimed you could only
> get it in tropical climates?

Are you implying that the product itself is contaminated?
So far I've only heard that it might not kill fusarium.

-Quick
mb - 03 Jun 2006 03:15 GMT
> >>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf
> >>>> standing in the pouring rain with lightening all
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> -Quick

Well, here's an interesting article.  Any comments?  I am more
concerned about Acanthamoeba than fusarium.

Lens inventor warns of eye infection risk
May 23, 2006 | www.scottsman.com

The man who invented the daily disposable contact lens has warned that
anyone who uses a solution to clean their lenses is at risk of serious
eye infections.

The warning comes after a contact lens solution used by millions of
people worldwide was withdrawn from sale over fears that it could cause
blindness.
Living.scotsman.com MPU

Ron Hamilton, from Bruntsfield, Edinburgh, today said the risk was not
isolated to one type of lens cleaning solution.

He said: "What happens is the bacteria builds up in the cleaning cases
because when you put in your modern solutions it doesn't kill all the
bacteria.

"If you are asking me if cleaning solutions are dangerous then I would
say yes they are, in varying degrees. Some people get by quite
adequately with it while others, from time to time, will encounter
problems."

One brand of lens cleaner, called Renu with MoistureLoc, was withdrawn
from the market this week after its manufacturer admitted the product
was linked with a rare fungal eye infection.

The Renu cleaner, made by pharmaceutical giant Bausch & Lomb, was
withdrawn after 122 cases of keratitis, a rare fungal infection, were
confirmed in the United States. Many of those infected had used the
Renu solution.
Dr. Leukoma - 03 Jun 2006 03:54 GMT
> > >>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf
> > >>>> standing in the pouring rain with lightening all
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> anyone who uses a solution to clean their lenses is at risk of serious
> eye infections.

Hmmm.  Wonder if he gets royalties?

DrG
mb - 03 Jun 2006 16:29 GMT
> > > >>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf
> > > >>>> standing in the pouring rain with lightening all
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> DrG

Of course, he's hyping his own product.  Good for him if it keeps our
eyes safer.  But he must have seen some problems (and money potential,
of course) to develop a daily throw away.  If people feel it is safer
and more hygienic for their eyes, given what has happened with one
disinfectant out there, the better option is daily disposable (not
completely riskfree) if they are too afraid of lasik.  god forbid if
someone should opt for glasses.  either bacteria is becoming more
resilient and/or disinfectants are just not currently strong enough or
monitored closely enough.  and you think the FDA is watching any of
these companies, highly unlikely.
Quick - 03 Jun 2006 18:24 GMT
>>>>>>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing
>>>>>>>> golf standing in the pouring rain with lightening
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> problems (and money potential, of course) to develop a
> daily throw away.

Really? Don't you think it more likely the objective was
entirely for convenience? People love disposable things
for the convenience and will tolerate a much greater cost
for it. The added safety may well have been a secondary
bonus.

-Quick
mb - 03 Jun 2006 22:32 GMT
> >>>>>>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing
> >>>>>>>> golf standing in the pouring rain with lightening
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> -Quick

Well, I could certainly ask him what his motive was if I wanted to.

Given what happened to my daughter, I am glad we had the option of a
daily disposable. My son was very content in glasses until he turned 18
and met a girl who said he looked better without them.  Other family
members and friends have turned to a daily disposable as well also
because of what happened to my daughter.    If everyone has such poor
hygiene habits like all of you claim and what an industry wants
everyone to believe (that is debatable in my opinion), then daily
disposables remain a good choice whatever his objective.  Profits
remain a key to any business and that will never change.  What needs to
change is the FDA's total protection to the consumer.
Quick - 03 Jun 2006 23:00 GMT
>>>>>>>>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing
>>>>>>>>>> golf standing in the pouring rain with lightening
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> to any business and that will never change.  What needs
> to change is the FDA's total protection to the consumer.

Alright. I think I'm getting a better picture of your adgenda.
My feeling is there should be some responsibility on the patient.
I don't want "total" protection by the FDA.
I DO want to be completely informed of risks and then make
my own decision. I'm aware there is an increased risk of
eye infection by wearing contacts. I thought about it, I'm OK
with it and decided to go ahead.

-Quick
mb - 04 Jun 2006 00:51 GMT
> >>>>>>>>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing
> >>>>>>>>>> golf standing in the pouring rain with lightening
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
>
> -Quick

Exactly right!  I want to be FULLY informed of ALL risks and then make
my own decision as well.  That is all I believe any of us want.  Total
protection by the FDA will never happen, but that is supposed to be the
only job of the FDA, to protect the public, not the companies.  Of
course, patients bear some responsibility, but how can they if they are
not aware of all risks, i.e., swimming with contacts, hots tubs, lakes,
pools, tap water?  Where are these disclosures on any of these
products.  We have a medical profession that is not even aware of
and/or debates these risks as insignificant statistics.
Quick - 04 Jun 2006 03:17 GMT
>> Alright. I think I'm getting a better picture of your
>> agenda. My feeling is there should be some
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> a medical profession that is not even aware of and/or
> debates these risks as insignificant statistics.

Life has inherent risks. We don't and can't know all of them.
You will never know all the risks. You will never be FULLY
informed. Now or in the future.

The medical profession can't know all of them. No one and
no organization can give you total protection. Sometimes
people are injured, maimed, and die due to no fault of their
own or anyone else. It can't be totally prevented. That's life

It's an accepted practice with products to say what they
*will* do and not what they won't do.

It's well known that there is an increased risk of infection
as a result of wearing contacts.

I don't know what the B&L product says. If it states that
it will kill *all* bad organisms then I would feel they are
at fault. If the product itself actively caused some harm
without any disclosure of the risk I would feel they were
at fault. If the product was contaminated while in control
of the company I would feel they were at fault. I don't
expect any product to list all the things it *won't* do
unless one of those things is generally (statistic) expected
from like products.

-Quick
mb - 04 Jun 2006 03:53 GMT
> >> Alright. I think I'm getting a better picture of your
> >> agenda. My feeling is there should be some
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> -Quick

I agree life has inherent risks.  That is not what I am disputing.
They have already admitted their product was not fully tested for its
efficacies.  Now they are facing damage control and liability.  The
public will forget, but the people who it affected will not forget.

All I am saying is that we need prominently displayed warning labels of
ALL water related risks on all contact lens products.  I don't think
that is asking too much, especially if the FDA website already states
"no swimming in contacts."  We were clueless when it affected by
daughter and quite frankly, I was shocked and angry why we did not
know.  Why don't most consumers know of this risk?  If the industry
told you there were any water related risks, it would be difficult for
them to sell their  30 day lens.  They bank on the assumption this
statistic is low and will absorb the liability when it hits them.  The
problem is Acanthamoeba is a sight threatening parasite that does not
die easily.  15-20 years you just lost your eye.  It is not just a
"pink eye" infection.  It is devastating and as I have stated before,
every good ophthalmologist will tell you, do not go swimming in
contacts or do so at your own risk.  They further would not even
recommend a 30 day lens.  Now those are the good doctors.  And if you
don't like that advise, then go to another doctor who will fit you.
There are plenty out there as well.
Dr. Leukoma - 04 Jun 2006 01:52 GMT
> Well, I could certainly ask him what his motive was if I wanted to.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> remain a key to any business and that will never change.  What needs to
> change is the FDA's total protection to the consumer.

Yes, but some patients still want clear vision 24/7 which means
continuous wear lenses, and not daily disposables.

There will always be risk.

I have noted that your daughter's eye doctor is fellowship trained in
LASIK.

DrG
mb - 04 Jun 2006 03:35 GMT
> > Well, I could certainly ask him what his motive was if I wanted to.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> DrG

Yes, he is a renowned lasik surgeon.  My daughter would let no one
touch her eye except him.  His hands are gifted as well as his mind.
We could not have been under better care than that, facing the prospect
that she almost lost her eye battling this infection.
Dr. Leukoma - 04 Jun 2006 04:29 GMT
> Yes, he is a renowned lasik surgeon.  My daughter would let no one
> touch her eye except him.  His hands are gifted as well as his mind.
> We could not have been under better care than that, facing the prospect
> that she almost lost her eye battling this infection.

Interestingly, I know what that is like first hand.  One of my most
recent patients was damaged by LASIK in 1998, performed by a very
gifted surgeon.  She hasn't let anyone touch her eyes until now.

DrG
mb - 04 Jun 2006 05:58 GMT
> > Yes, he is a renowned lasik surgeon.  My daughter would let no one
> > touch her eye except him.  His hands are gifted as well as his mind.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> DrG

My naivete must be showing.  All of us common people put so much trust
in our doctors when they help us, but even gifted doctors make mistakes
or procedures just simply go wrong.  Yes, lasik can be blindness as
well as better sight.  You are right, of course, no one is protecting
the consumer on that front either.   I am just not surprised anymore.
Our eyesight has been underprotected for years on all fronts.
Something needs to change.

I hope your gifted hands can restore your patient's sight.
Dr. Leukoma - 04 Jun 2006 14:22 GMT
> > > Yes, he is a renowned lasik surgeon.  My daughter would let no one
> > > touch her eye except him.  His hands are gifted as well as his mind.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> I hope your gifted hands can restore your patient's sight.

She is quite happy.  I just like to keep things in perspective.  There
is a jungle of misinformation out there.

By the way, I have been told repeatedly by Alcon that their Optifree
kills acanthamoeba cysts after 6 hours.  I know that hydrogen peroxide
kills the cysts as well after a 6 hour soak.  This means a 6 hour soak
in the full 3% strength.  The unfortunate thing is that the leading
hydrogen peroxide disinfection system begins to neutralize the hydrogen
peroxide as soon as the contact lenses are put into the container.  I
am referring of course to the one with the grey disk at the bottom.

It might interest you that at the time of the last "acanthamoeba scare"
almost twenty years ago, there was no effective pharmaceutical agent
against it initially.

DrG
mb - 04 Jun 2006 15:45 GMT
> > > > Yes, he is a renowned lasik surgeon.  My daughter would let no one
> > > > touch her eye except him.  His hands are gifted as well as his mind.
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> DrG

Yes, I need you experts to keep me in perspective as my passion on this
issue overcomes me sometimes.  And I am glad there are good doctors
like you out there who truly care about their patients.  We need you
and sometimes rely solely on your expertise.

Optifree Express is one of the solutions I would feel comfortable using
if I wore contacts, and they have validated that for you.  Since some
solutions cannot even claim acanthamoebicidal, all the more reason for
"no swimming" and water related disclosures on all products as that
clearly puts you at risk; regardless of how low the risk, there is a
risk.

Sadly so, yes, you just lost your eye 15-20 years ago.  Jackie's doctor
was involved in some of the original research during that epidemic that
was studied at the CDC while he was a Fellow at Emory University in
Atlanta, between 1984-86.  He has been clearly aware and has treated
these infections for quite a long time.

Obviously, since this is such a virulent parasite as we cannot even
develop effective antibiotics to kill this parasite, let alone put
these cleaning agents in our contact lens solutions, all the more
reason for warnings.  I am fearful this Acanthamoeba trend will
continue and we are entitled to find out why.
Dr. Leukoma - 04 Jun 2006 17:18 GMT
> Obviously, since this is such a virulent parasite as we cannot even
> develop effective antibiotics to kill this parasite, let alone put
> these cleaning agents in our contact lens solutions, all the more
> reason for warnings.  I am fearful this Acanthamoeba trend will
> continue and we are entitled to find out why.

I guess I need to see some statistics supporting this "trend."  Or, is
it just a "spike" caused by temporary local environmental factors such
as warmer water, less rainfall causing lakes to be lower, etc.  Here at
the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, they are looking
at the immunological aspects, i.e. what keeps most people from
contracting the infection.

My own pet theory, for which I have no proof whatsoever, is the
changing perception of the contact lens as a consumer product rather
than a medical device caused by a number of variables, and increasing
emphasis on convenience.  For some reason, it seems that more people
consider it their right not to be inconvenienced.  The end result?
Less attention paid to lens hygeine.

DrG
mb - 04 Jun 2006 18:21 GMT
> > Obviously, since this is such a virulent parasite as we cannot even
> > develop effective antibiotics to kill this parasite, let alone put
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> DrG

We had plenty of doctors very interested in my daughter's case and one
doctor too stated it could possibly be a missing gene in their immune
system that protects others from this parasite.  Allergies, possibly,
with medicines that cause the eye to be dryer, don't know.   Our tears
do perform a protective barrier against most bacteria.  I will email
you the Chicago and Philadelphia studies.  The doctors in these two
cities are very concerned about this spike as well.  I would like to
know how many cases of Acanthamoeba have occurred in Texas in the last
several years.  I have read with interest about Dr. Niederkorn and his
studies on the immunity issue.

Absolutely on your pet theory.  We have that proof, as the FDA 4 years
ago deregulated the plano contact lens as cosmetic, which was sold in
dollar stores, because it was a non-prescription lens.  It took another
two years to get Congress to pass the Plano Contact Lens bill.  I
emailed 100 senators in July 2005 about this issue and other appalling
facts that I discovered.  Two days later that legislation was passed in
full and now is a law that all contact lenses are medical devices, not
to be sold without a prescription.  Were they listening to me and my
anguished pleas for change?  And do you believe there are now states
trying to overturn this legislation.  Daniel Troy, acting
administrator, at that time, saw no problem with deregulating this
medical device.  And who suffered the consequences - our youth, the
ultimate risktakers.

It is also an industry marketing their products as quick and
convenient.  It is a very powerful industry regardless of what good
doctors recommend to their patients.
Dr. Leukoma - 04 Jun 2006 19:50 GMT
> > > Obviously, since this is such a virulent parasite as we cannot even
> > > develop effective antibiotics to kill this parasite, let alone put
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> several years.  I have read with interest about Dr. Niederkorn and his
> studies on the immunity issue.

I know Dr. Niederkorn, and we're practically neighbors.

DrG
mb - 04 Jun 2006 20:10 GMT
> > > > Obviously, since this is such a virulent parasite as we cannot even
> > > > develop effective antibiotics to kill this parasite, let alone put
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> DrG

Small world.  Would be interested to get his expert opinion on these
issues and to ascertain if there are increasing trends in Texas.  My
guess is his expertise in this field already demonstrates there is a
heightened concern.
Dr. Leukoma - 05 Jun 2006 01:33 GMT
> > > > > Obviously, since this is such a virulent parasite as we cannot even
> > > > > develop effective antibiotics to kill this parasite, let alone put
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> guess is his expertise in this field already demonstrates there is a
> heightened concern.

I would guess that time frame was atypical, which explains the
interest.  As I said earlier, 4 cases in 6 months, without any during
the previous 19 years, and none since.  Sounds like an environmental
cause to me.  Plus none of the residents got it right.

DrG
mb - 05 Jun 2006 04:37 GMT
> > > > > > Obviously, since this is such a virulent parasite as we cannot even
> > > > > > develop effective antibiotics to kill this parasite, let alone put
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> DrG

I added another mother to my support group from Louisana.  16 year old
boy got the infection in Jan. 2006, a woman from Indiana in January,
and a man from Kansas city last week.  they fought his as herpes for 13
months.  wonder what kind of solution your patients had used.
Dr. Leukoma - 05 Jun 2006 13:26 GMT
> I added another mother to my support group from Louisana.  16 year old
> boy got the infection in Jan. 2006, a woman from Indiana in January,
> and a man from Kansas city last week.  they fought his as herpes for 13
> months.  wonder what kind of solution your patients had used.

I wish I knew.  We have traditionally favored Optifree Express over
ReNu because of the broader spectrum of action.

One girl had been hit in the eye with a toy hockey puck from a game.
She mentioned that she had put an ice pack on her eye.  She had been
wearing her contact lens at the time.

Another was wearing 30 day continuous wear and had been swimming in
them.

The third was wearing disposable lenses, with no known risk
factors...denied swimming, using tap water, etc.

The fourth was in continuous wear contacts and got dust in her eye out
in west Texas.

All four had atypical presentation, with small dense central
infiltrates under an intact epithelium...too dense in my opinion to be
mistaken for herpes.  High magnification revealed faint tracks or
filaments, which are basically tunnels created by the organism.  They
all looked septic.

All were positively diagnosed with confocal microscopy.  The first
three had similar appearance, which helped with the diagnosis. The
fourth patient was highly atypical in that the infiltrate was small and
peripheral.  The department head, who is also an expert on
acanthamoeba, stated that these were the earliest cases he had ever
seen.  He later commended me on my early "catch," and for resisting the
urge to reach for the steroids, which causes the organism to spread
quicker.  It was not that I was able to correctly diagnose the first
case, but had simply ruled out anything with which I was familiar.  I
reasoned first that it was infectious, and secondly that it was
anaerobic.  With a medical school nearby, it would have been foolish to
begin treatment without a positive diagnosis.

DrG
mb - 05 Jun 2006 14:48 GMT
> > I added another mother to my support group from Louisana.  16 year old
> > boy got the infection in Jan. 2006, a woman from Indiana in January,
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> DrG

hmmm.... water and swimming culprits.....

Your brilliant analysis at the onset saved these patients from further
destruction of their eye.  If we could clone you excellent doctors, it
would be a great benefit to us all.  More continuing education in the
eye health medical field on this infection is a must.  There continues
to be a mindset that this infection is so "rare" that doctors are not
inclined to even suspect it.  That needs to change, but if that won't
happen, then prominently displayed warning labels of all water related
risks on all contact lens products would reduce this risk as well.

Another change on my list is mandatory reporting mechanisms to the CDC
on these infections as no one has any clue about increasing or
decreasing trends without current or previous statistics.  Another
stat. that should be in place is lasik gone bad.  Thus, my continuing
support for passage of the Vision Preservation Act.  This legislation
is critical......
Quick - 03 Jun 2006 04:32 GMT
>>>>>> Of course one has be rather strange to be playing
>>>>>> golf standing in the pouring rain with lightening all
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> fungal infection, were confirmed in the United States.
> Many of those infected had used the Renu solution.

Comments?  All I see here are some article blurbs with no
substance or references.  And a quote supposedly from
the inventor of the *daily* disposable contact lens that says
cleaners are dangerous.  You didn't supply anything to
comment on one way or the other.

Is the inventor of the daily disposable a doctor? And
could you possibly see a vested interest in saying that
cleaners are dangerous? -:)

-Quick
Dr. Leukoma - 03 Jun 2006 03:52 GMT
> > > > Of course one has be rather strange to be playing golf
> > > > standing in the pouring rain with lightening all around.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> the dead of winter in North Dakota using this product when at the time
> they claimed you could only get it in tropical climates?

You mean that ND doesn't have a tropical climate?

DrG
Mike Tyner - 02 Jun 2006 23:26 GMT
> Maybe they should have disclosed on their product, this solution may
> cause a "rare" infection which could result in blindness.  And we
> haven't bothered to test this product against this fungus either.

If they listed ALL the specific organisms not tested, there'd be no room on
the label for the product name.

If they TESTED all those organisms, each bottle would cost about $3500.00.

-MT
mb - 03 Jun 2006 03:35 GMT
> > Maybe they should have disclosed on their product, this solution may
> > cause a "rare" infection which could result in blindness.  And we
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> -MT

B & L has otherwise good products.  Their mistake was their arrogance
and denial of any problems at the onset.  Fusarium eye infections will
be rare again now that this specific product has been removed from the
market.   Companies continue to get FDA approvals for policing their
own products.  hmmm.... something's wrong with that picture.

Federal inspectors criticize Bausch & Lomb
May 17, 2006 | Alison Young | Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The Bausch & Lomb contact lens solution being recalled worldwide and
linked to an outbreak of serious eye infections was put on the market
without being fully tested for effectiveness in killing bacteria and
fungus, according to an inspection report by the U.S. Food and Drug
Administration.

ReNu with MoistureLoc, used by 2.3 million Americans, never went
through a full FDA approval process, the report indicates, and the
company's new-product design team failed to complete a wide range of
tests both before and after it was sold to consumers.

After its introduction, as complaints came in that the product could be
linked to a spike in cases of rare fungal infections, the company
failed to quickly notify the FDA, as required by law, according to the
report released Tuesday of inspectors' observations at Bausch & Lomb's
lens solution plant in Greenville, S.C.

FDA and Bausch & Lomb officials said they don't think any of the eight
pages of problems cited in the report contributed to the worldwide
outbreak of fusarium keratitis, a potentially blinding eye infection
caused by a common fungus.
Mike Tyner - 03 Jun 2006 05:37 GMT
> B & L has otherwise good products.  Their mistake was their arrogance
> and denial of any problems at the onset.  Fusarium eye infections will
> be rare again

120/2300000 still seems rare to me.

I don't recall B&L denying anything. Between November and April, they
cultured the product in the affected markets and initiated a recall despite
negative culture results.

There are better examples of corporate arrogance. Have you ever checked the
price of natamycin, the drug used to treat fusarium? That's the price of
meeting your standard.

-MT
William Stacy - 02 Jun 2006 00:56 GMT
Based on my admittedly brief study of this subject, it seems that
acanthamoeba corneal infections are caused primarily by soft contact
lens wearers who come in contact with contaminated fresh water like
ponds and lakes, and even tap water (in areas where the public water
supply has been recently flooded). I concur with strongly cautioning cl
wearers about swimming, bathing, or otherwise contaminating their
contacts with such waters. However, as I posted earlier, I think
swimming in the 3.5% saline ocean waters, away from sewer and river
discharge areas is relatively safe for contact lens wearers, probably
safer than ordinary lens care (where sterile techniques are NEVER
observed).

I have not found a single case that can be definitively traced to clean
ocean swimming (if anyone can find me one, please post it and I will
modify my opinion appropriately). My interest in this is that I want our
recommendations to patients to be based on both scientific evidence and
its logical extensions.

w.stacy, o.d.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.