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Medical Forum / General / Vision / September 2005

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Herbs?  Any benefits?

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Georgeous Gertrude - 14 Sep 2005 20:46 GMT
Has anyone here experienced definitive vision improvement when using  
Eyebright or Bilberry or others?
If so, in what area did you notice the improvements?
How long did it take to see the first improvement and did it continue  
improving indefinitely?
And did it go back to its previous condition when you stopped taking the  
herbs?

I've heard that fasting can improve vision in some but others claimed no  
improvement.  I think the improvement was more noted in those that were on  
a long (30+ day) water fast.  One wonders if fasting on nothing but  
eyesight improving herbs might yield interesting results.
Mike Tyner - 14 Sep 2005 21:57 GMT
> I've heard that fasting can improve vision in some but others claimed no
> improvement.  I think the improvement was more noted in those that were on
> a long (30+ day) water fast.  One wonders if fasting on nothing but
> eyesight improving herbs might yield interesting results.

Fasting (and weird diets and anything that alters the osmolarity of your
blood) can change the optical qualities of the eye dramatically. It doesn't
improve your ability to see detail - you don't grow more photoreceptors -
but it's one of a few things that can significantly alter your refraction -
eg nearsighted or farsighted.

If you happen to be nearsighted and suddenly become less so, you'll declare
"it's a miracle."

OTOH, the same process would make a farsighted person's vision _worse_ and
they'd testify "that diet ruint mah vision!".

These effects tend to be temporary, but you can see how myths get started.

On the other hand, if you believe vitamins and micronutrients and fiber are
important in a healthy diet, it's hard to see how you could argue benefits
of doing without those for a week at a time.

There are some benefits to bilberry, as with any berry loaded with
antioxidants. But there are historical reasons why bilberry has a false
reputation for "improving vision."

Corrected visual acuity depends on how many photoreceptors you have, and how
smooth your optical surfaces are. We don't see bilberry making much
difference in actual acuity measurements.

-MT
Robert - 15 Sep 2005 04:08 GMT
>> I've heard that fasting can improve vision in some but others claimed no
>> improvement.  I think the improvement was more noted in those that were  
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> smooth your optical surfaces are. We don't see bilberry making much
> difference in actual acuity measurements.

Well said Mike.  The acuity test really is the crux though I guess other  
factors may contribute to people thinking they see better (and maybe they  
do) but if you can't measure it in a test of acuity, its not much long  
term good.  Especially since the driving restriction seems to be one of  
the biggest influences of people.

If opticians could go back in time a few hundred years I wonder if  
people's eyes would have measured as poorly as they do today.  If not,  
what do most people in the vision field attribute the difference to?
John H. - 19 Sep 2005 05:42 GMT
It is doubtful you will experience any vision improvement unless there
is an underlying inflammation at a very low level which may be
affecting vision. Also note that many medicines can affect vision. It
is interesting to note that there are currently two large trials being
conducted to assess the use of these herbs and other antioxidants to
prevent macular degeneration or impede its progression. I suspect the
results will be positive because previous epidemiological studies have
suggested some dietary antioxidant compounds to confer protection for
the eyes.

The fasting is interesting, it may suggest something they were eating
was not good for their vision. Additionally, caloric restriction
results in a number of physiological changes that *may* help vision, in
particular increased protein turnover, slightly raised cortisol (will
inhibit inflammation), and improved antioxidant status. However, for
caloric restriction to work it is essential to maintain nutritional
status via supplements. For a fascinating article on caloric
restriction, track down Mark Mattson's article, "Starve me and watch my
brain run." Remember, the retina is the brain ... . Caloric restriction
together with good nutrition does wonderful things for the brain.

I wouldn't get too carried away with taking herbs etc to improve your
vision but there is unequivocally some benefit, particularly for those
at risk for eye related degenerative diseases, to seriously consider
taking something to protect their eyes. Don't wait til the problem
emerges, it's too late then, lifelong attention is required. Oh yes,
and get rid of trans fatty acids!

By the way, I've recently met two people who swear that taking an
antioxidant formula specifically designed for eye protection have
halted their macular degeneration and improved their vision, so they
claim. I can understand the halting bit, not so sure about the
improving bit.
Georgeous Gertrude - 19 Sep 2005 20:32 GMT
Fasting on just eye benefitting herbs might be an interesting angle.

> It is doubtful you will experience any vision improvement unless there
> is an underlying inflammation at a very low level which may be
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> claim. I can understand the halting bit, not so sure about the
> improving bit.
p.clarkii@gmail.com - 20 Sep 2005 02:06 GMT
quack
John H. - 22 Sep 2005 04:15 GMT
Try reading some research for a change. Please explain why the National
Eye Institute is currently conducting a long term trial involving the
use of antioxidants. As for caloric restriction, the research on that
is overwhelming.

p.clar...@gmail.com wrote:
> quack
Mike Tyner - 22 Sep 2005 04:28 GMT
> Try reading some research for a change. Please explain why the National
> Eye Institute is currently conducting a long term trial involving the
> use of antioxidants.

Because they show evidence of slowing or preventing some diseases. They also
show detrimental side effects, when used indiscriminately.

> As for caloric restriction, the research on that
> is overwhelming.

Specific benefits for the eye aren't well known. Could you point us to some
findings relative to vision?

-MT
John H. - 26 Sep 2005 05:48 GMT
Mike,

1. Do this medline search: "caloric restriction" and retina. You will
come up with 8 hits, surprising results. No, not going to post them as
most will not read them. It confirms my earlier statement though,
caloric restriction does appear beneficial for the eyes. When I put up
the first post I didn't check it out but was extrapolating from the
known effects of CR so presumed there would be some benefit. Guess
what, there is. Common sense really, the retina is the brain and the
benefits of CR for the brain are very surprising indeed. PS. more than
cortisol, also increased protein turnover and increased expression of
heat shock proteins, both of which offer protection for neurons.

So thanks for the question, it is good to know that I am beginning to
understand some of this. Nonetheless it is too early to say
definitively if CR will help everyone's vision. As I stated in my first
post, it protects vision, I doubt it will improve it.

The last abstract points, showed bad results of CR for albino rats(with
qualifications by authors), all the others point to positive effect.

2.

Indiscriminate use of anything is potentially dangerous. NSAIDS are an
excellent example where recommended use can lead to a whole variety of
problems(kidneys, liver, and heart). However, your observation is
interesting and highlights the importance of balance. Can you direct me
to any references?

3.

As for fasting, I think this is a dangerous practice. It is not caloric
restriction.

4.

Now who is the quack? (directed to nitwit who labelled me so.)

Regards,

John.

> > Try reading some research for a change. Please explain why the National
> > Eye Institute is currently conducting a long term trial involving the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> -MT
 
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