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Medical Forum / General / Vision / August 2005Floaters due to Postural hypotension
Hi everyone! I'm a 17 year old male floater sufferer. Heres my story: I was watching an educational videotape for about 3-4 hours non-stop, lying down on the couch, with my head up, like this: ________/ (my head is the slash, and the ___'s are my legs and body) anyways, when I got up from the sitting position, i noticed tiny flashing lights and about 4-5 floaters. the lights stopped after about 15-30 seconds, but the floaters remained, since today (i got them on june 21, and today, 21 july, one month laters, i still have them) I went for a checkup eye examination, my vision is 20/20, the opthalmologist said that my eyes are fine, no retinal detachment or any problems. however, i want to be a pilot and these floaters are annoying me, when will they ever go away? how many more months? i think i have high blood pressure (postural hypotension - get dizzy after changing position quickly), so maybe the floaters are due to blood cells, do they ever dissappear, please tell me after hlow long. Will I be stuck with them for the rest of my life? Will they get worse? how can i prevent getting more floaters? Also, I seem to have "afterimages" - ie. when i look at a bright object, like a curtain in the morning or a lightbulb or flame, and move my eyes, i can still see the image, why is this? is it related to my floaters? I just want to know when these damn floaters will go away, like 2 months? Please someone help, these floaters are really depressing me, I feel like commiting suicide. If they are small round black dots they are probably blood droplets and will probably go away in weeks. If they are non round, filamentous, wispy cobweb-like, translucent, they are vitreous tissue and will not go away, ever, so get used to them. You can hope they will gradually migrate to a more peripheral location, thereby being less visible, noticeable or bothersome. If they are bad enough (as in seriously degrading your best visual acuity), they can be removed. They are not worth suicide, that's for sure. They are very rarely bad enough to prevent you from being a pilot, and everyone has them at one time or another (although not all people notice them). w.stacy, o.d. >Hi everyone! > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > As a potential fighter pilot, I would be more concerned about the postural hypotension...pulling multiple G's can redistribute the blood supply from the head to the feet rather quickly. It used to be they would reject an individual whose blood pressure was too low. I wonder if they still do. DrG On 7/21/05 9:37 AM, in article 1121963877.628335.216890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "Dr. Leukoma" <drg@leukoma.com> wrote: > As a potential fighter pilot, I would be more concerned about the > postural hypotension...pulling multiple G's can redistribute the blood [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > DrG Note that the original poster seems to confuse or misspell high blood pressure with hypotension. Bill > Hi everyone! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > will > they ever go away? how many more months? The floaters never go away, but your visual system adapts and they become less noticable. > i think i have high blood pressure (postural hypotension - get dizzy after > changing position quickly), so maybe the floaters are due to blood cells, > do > they ever dissappear, please tell me after hlow long. High blood pressure and postural hypotension are not the same thing. If anything, you likely have low blood pressure. If the eye exam was normal then it is unlikely that the floaters are blood cells. > Will I be stuck with them for the rest of my life? Yes >Will they get worse? Maybe how > can i prevent getting more floaters? You can't. > Also, I seem to have "afterimages" - ie. when i look at a bright object, > like > a curtain in the morning or a lightbulb or flame, and move my eyes, i can > still see the image, why is this? This is normal, happens to everyone. It is due to the time the retinal pigments responsible for vision take to regenerate after exposure to bright light > is it related to my floaters? No > I just want to know when these damn floaters will go away, like 2 months? No one can predict this. > Please someone help, these floaters are really depressing me, I feel like > commiting suicide. If you feel suicidal please tell your parents right away and consult your family doctor. If you don't want to tell your parents, call your local Distress Centre Phone Line. It is not normal to feel suicidal because of floaters, but it is not uncommon for teenagers to feel suicidal due to the chemical changes occuring in their brains and bodies. Please seek professional help as soon as possible. Dr Judy Thank you all for your responses. My floaters seem to be getting less visible now, since I don't think about them as much anymore. what really made them get better are my prayers. God helped me. I'm going to get my blood pressure checked soon. The secret to these floaters is not to let them bother you. you will only see them when you look for them. forget about them. they are harmless. you will NOT go blind. they WILL disappear after 2-6 months, either your brain will tune them out, our they will dissolve. but FORGET about them, and they will go away. >> Hi everyone! >> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > >Dr Judy Thank you all for your responses. The floaters are strand-like, slightly transluscent. i have one in my left eye and three/four in the right eye. they get more visible when i use my computer, why? could they dissappear if i stop using the computer? My floaters seem to be getting less visible now, since I don't think about them as much anymore. what really made them get better are my prayers. God helped me. I'm going to get my blood pressure checked soon. The secret to these floaters is not to let them bother you. you will only see them when you look for them. forget about them. they are harmless. you will NOT go blind. they WILL disappear after 2-6 months, either your brain will tune them out, our they will dissolve. but FORGET about them, and they will go away. >> Hi everyone! >> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > >Dr Judy Hi again, Sorry for that double-post, my mistake. 1.) Why did getting up suddenly cause these floaters? 2.) How long will it take for my visual system to adapt? Any tips on helping it to adapt? >Thank you all for your responses. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> >>Dr Judy > 1.) Why did getting up suddenly cause these floaters? Getting up did not cause them. It was a coincidence that you first noticed them at that moment. You had to first notice them when you were doing *something*, but don't shoot the messenger (don't fall for the logical fallacy of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc".) > 2.) How long will it take for my visual system to adapt? Any tips on helping > it to adapt? Not long. Don't dwell on them. w.stacy, o.d. >> 1.) Why did getting up suddenly cause these floaters? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >w.stacy, o.d. Thank you very much, William. I really appreciate it. You saved me from depression and possibly suicide. How long do most people take to adapt to the floaters (something like x months, not "not long" or "soon"? I know that you can't give me an exact time, but what's the average? I've finally realised that they aren't harming me or anything, and my vision is still perfect (20/20). Will the afterimages stop? I think my eyes are sensitive to light now, that also started since the floaters. I guess you're right, ignoring and accepting them is the only way to get rid of them, kinda wierd, huh? Just like watery eyes is a symptom of dry eyes. > Thank you very much, William. I really appreciate it. You saved me from > depression and possibly suicide. Glad to help. > How long do most people take to adapt to the floaters (something like x > months, not "not long" or "soon"? > I know that you can't give me an exact time, but what's the average? > I've finally realised that they aren't > harming me or anything, and my vision is still perfect (20/20). Average is a tough call, because most people can't recall when they stopped noticing something. I'd say a few weeks to months, at the most. > Will the afterimages stop? I think my eyes are sensitive to light now, that > also started since the floaters. I don't recall your problem with afterimages. These are another perfectly normal entopic phenomenon. They can be avoided by not staring at a sharply defined object without moving your eyes around for more than a few seconds. > I guess you're right, ignoring and accepting them is the only way to get rid > of them, kinda wierd, huh? > Just like watery eyes is a symptom of dry eyes. True. Good luck. w.stacy, o.d. http://www.charles-retina.com/flashes-faq.htm this says that postural hypotension causes floaters: http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Eye_floaters%3FOp enDocument&e=9888 it must be the low blood pressure/change in postition from sitting to standing - immediately after i got up, i saw the floaters and flashes, too soon to be a conincidence. >> 1.) Why did getting up suddenly cause these floaters? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >w.stacy, o.d. > http://www.charles-retina.com/flashes-faq.htm quote from the article: note it is about stars and specks of light not floaters "Low blood pressure can cause people to see stars or specks of light, particularly if they change position quickly. An example would be standing quickly from a sitting position or rising quickly after stooping or bending over. " > this says that postural hypotension causes floaters: > http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Eye_floaters%3FOp enDocument&e=9888 Quote from the second article, note it refers to flashing lights not floaters: "Sometimes, floaters can be associated with flashing lights or 'auras'. This can be caused by events including: (minor snip) a.. Postural hypotension - getting up quickly from a kneeling, sitting or lying position resulting in dizziness and vision disturbance. You have confused flashes and floaters, they are not the same thing. The articles you posted were about floaters, but also provided some information about flashes. Postural hypotension means that, due to a drop in blood pressure, blood does not get to the head (including eyes and brain) quickly enough when suddenly standing up. This lack of blood than causes the perception of stars, flashing lights and so on. The flashes are a transient event in vision perception, are due to lack of function at that moment in time and they are not a permanent structural change. Floaters, on the other hand, are changes in the density of the vitreous of the eye and are apermanent structural change of the eye. Dr Judy > > it must be the low blood pressure/change in postition from sitting to > standing - immediately after i got up, i saw the floaters and flashes, too > soon to be a conincidence. Because of the bright, uniform background of the monitor. Turning down the brightness may help. They are far less visible in complex visual background (like walking through a jungle), and far more visible in more uniform, bright background (like staring at the sky on a sunny day). The vitreous tissues that are causing them will always be with you, but you are now on the right track. w.stacy, o.d. > Thank you all for your responses. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they get more visible when i use my computer, why? could they dissappear if i > stop using the computer? William, Thank you so much for helping me! You saved me from depression and possibly suicide. I think I've overcome the barrier where floaters aren't annoying anymore. So after how many months do they usually disappear (ie. brain tunes them out)? How can I help my brain to tune them out? Must I avoid looking at them, avoid eye movements, etc? >Because of the bright, uniform background of the monitor. Turning down >the brightness may help. They are far less visible in complex visual [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> they get more visible when i use my computer, why? could they dissappear if i >> stop using the computer? William, Thank you so much for helping me! You saved me from depression and possibly suicide. I think I've overcome the barrier where floaters aren't annoying anymore. So after how many months do they usually disappear (ie. brain tunes them out)? How can I help my brain to tune them out? Must I avoid looking at them, avoid eye movements, etc? Also, when will the afterimages stop? >Because of the bright, uniform background of the monitor. Turning down >the brightness may help. They are far less visible in complex visual [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> they get more visible when i use my computer, why? could they dissappear if i >> stop using the computer? On Saturday, 23d july, I started getting eye twitches in my right eye only. I still experience them today, on Monday. Could this be associated with the floaters? when will these twitches stop? Should I go for another eye examination with my ophthalmologist? Also, I need to watch those educational videos again (same one I watched immediately after which I noticed the floaters). Will it be safe to watch it again? Will I get more floaters? The video has a white background, basically its a teacher explaining all the work on a white sheet which is videoed. >William, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>> they get more visible when i use my computer, why? could they dissappear if i >>> stop using the computer? > On Saturday, 23d july, I started getting eye twitches in my right eye only. I > still experience them today, on Monday. Could this be associated with the > floaters? when will these twitches stop? Not associated. They will stop, but how soon depends probably on how much rest you get. Very common, not harmful, but annoying, kind of like floaters, except these WILL go away in a few days, weeks or RARELY months. > Should I go for another eye examination with my ophthalmologist? Not just for this. > Also, I need to watch those educational videos again (same one I watched > immediately after which I noticed the floaters). Will it be safe to watch it > again? Will I get more floaters? The video has a white background, basically > its a teacher explaining all the work on a white sheet which is videoed. It will not be a problem. w.stacy, o.d. I've noticed a small pimple in my lower eyelid of my right eye. the twitches have stopped after I've used eyedrops. do all people's brains tune out the floaters or is it only tuned out when the floaters are stationery and do not float around? >> On Saturday, 23d july, I started getting eye twitches in my right eye only. I >> still experience them today, on Monday. Could this be associated with the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >w.stacy, o.d. > do all people's brains tune out the floaters or is it only tuned out when the > floaters are stationery and do not float around? When they are very stationary, the retina itself tunes it out just like it tunes out other entopic phenomena, such as Purkinje's Tree. When moving, it is the higher brain where such tuning out has to happen. This is where people vary. Some people are completely unaware of them, some notice them a lot of the time, and some are obsessed with them. Try to move from the latter toward the former. w.stacy, o.d. Any tips on living with them floaters? also, im using Spersallerg eyedrops for my red eyes, but since using them my eyes are very sensitive to light and i've started seeing flashes again. Should I stop using the eyedrops? Will my eyes stop being sensitive to light? what can i use to fix the problem? >> do all people's brains tune out the floaters or is it only tuned out when the >> floaters are stationery and do not float around? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >w.stacy, o.d. Stop using the drops now. Get another eye exam ASAP. Ask about alternative drops. Immerse yourself in your studies and/or get a job. Good luck. w.stacy, o.d. > Any tips on living with them floaters? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Will my eyes stop being sensitive to light? what can i use to fix the problem? Thank you for your reply. I'm no longer obsessed with the floaters and realised that I've been overdoing it and they aren't as serious as I made them out to be, maybe I'm a hypochondriac :) Anyways, I've noticed that my floaters move much faster when I move my eyes than they did like 2-3 weeks ago, could this be because the floaters are dissolving or that my vitreous gel is liquefying. Is it good/bad? Should I wear sunglasses to stop seeing them? >Stop using the drops now. Get another eye exam ASAP. Ask about >alternative drops. Immerse yourself in your studies and/or get a job. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Will my eyes stop being sensitive to light? what can i use to fix the problem? > Anyways, I've noticed that my floaters move much faster when I move my eyes > than they did like 2-3 weeks ago, could this be because the floaters are > dissolving or that my vitreous gel is liquefying. They move at the same speed your eyes move, so my guess is you're moving your eyes quicker than before for some reason. You're way too young for significant liquifaction, which would cause greater *distance* of floater movement, not greater speed. w.stacy, o.d. > === SNIP === >Should I wear sunglasses to stop seeing them? ===================== More important is that they interfere with your abillity to see other things. I have problems of interference with reading. Jack Yes, I agree with you. but, as William stacy said, you will get used to them and your brain tunes them out. Is there any possibility that my floaters are blood cells/made up of something which will dissolve in the vitreous? One is shaped like a horseshoe, one like a question mark, and the other 2/3 are slightly more transparent. Also, I've been taking a multivitamin called viral choice (an immune system booster), which contains zinc, and lotsa other vitamins and selenium, etc. This was before I had any floaters I haven't taken them since, scared that it might give me more floaters or something. Why does my right eyelid (not the left eyelid) twitch when i yawn, sneeze or cough? It twitches for about 10 seconds, then goes away. And is there any treatment to help my eyes stop being so sensitive to light? I see afterimages much more easier than before, and they last about 10-15 seconds, whereas before the floaters they only lasted 3 seconds. In the morning, when I wake up and the light is off, my vision is kinda fuzzy, like I'm wearing night vision goggles (without the green color ;)] It's like image noise in digital pictures or grain. >> === SNIP === >>Should I wear sunglasses to stop seeing them? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Jack > 1.) Why did getting up suddenly cause these floaters? Getting up did not cause them. It was a coincidence that you first noticed them at that moment. You had to first notice them when you were doing *something*, but don't shoot the messenger (don't fall for the logical fallacy of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc".) So that means that I've always had them, but never noticed them. therefore, my brain did previously tune them out and I wasn't aware of them, but after watching that video with the plain, white background for 3/4 hours, my visual system noticed them, is that why? This will be good news since knowing that my brain does in fact have the power to tune out my 4/5 floaters, or is it not possible for the brain to tune out more than one/2 floaters? I'm not so sure that you've "always" had them. The vitreous does undergo some structural changes (normal) in early adulthood. I think these changes may be related to the development of some floaters. Since I started doing routine retinal photography a year ago, I've noticed a fairly dramatic difference in the vitreal-retinal interface of juveniles as compared to young adults. This interface is highly reflective in youth and becomes far less so in early adulthood. Fortunately the combination of intra-retinal suppression mechanisms and higher level brain supression seems to be nearly limitless in its ability to tune this kind of visual "noise" out. w.stacy, o.d. > So that means that I've always had them, but never noticed them. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > power to tune out my 4/5 floaters, or is it not possible for the brain to > tune out more than one/2 floaters? > Since I started doing routine retinal photography a year ago, I've noticed > a fairly dramatic difference in the vitreal-retinal interface of juveniles > as compared to young adults. This interface is highly reflective in youth > and becomes far less so in early adulthood. When do you do the retinal photography in the course of the eye exam, Dr. Stacy? Before you have the patient attempt to read the chart or after? Thanks, Rob ================================================ "I've lost my electron!" exclaimed one hydrogen atom. "Are you positive?" asked the other hydrogen atom. ================================================ > When do you do the retinal photography in the course of the eye exam, Dr. > Stacy? Before you have the patient attempt to read the chart or after? I do it at the very end of the exam, after all chart work is done. w.stacy, o.d. > I'm not so sure that you've "always" had them. The vitreous does > undergo some structural changes (normal) in early adulthood. I think [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > higher level brain supression seems to be nearly limitless in its > ability to tune this kind of visual "noise" out. Unless the damn thing desides to rest right in the center for a few days making it REALLY difficult to read small print. Eventually they drift away, but not soon enough. > w.stacy, o.d. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > but after watching that video with the plain, white background for 3/4 hours, > > my visual system noticed them, is that why? I first noticed the nasty one when I was 38 and was staring at the sky while waiting at a bus stop. Others showed up later over the years, including a parenthesis-shaped one in the other eye. > > This will be good news since knowing that my brain does in fact have the > > power to tune out my 4/5 floaters, or is it not possible for the brain to > > tune out more than one/2 floaters?  SignatureCheers, Bev =================================================== "I love deadlines... especially the whooshing sound they make as they go by." -Douglas Adams >> I'm not so sure that you've "always" had them. The >> vitreous does undergo some structural changes (normal) [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>> is it not possible for the brain to tune out more than >>> one/2 floaters? Ok, somebody posted a great summary on floaters in this thread and I can't find it. If I sort of "throw" my eyes to the right or the left and then watch for the floaters there are a bunch of the fibrous/filament kind that that come across as if they are suspended in a viscous fluid. I do not notice them at all unless I do this with the intention of looking for them. But there are a lot of them. Were these the good or bad kind? I vaguely remember that one kind or the other just accumulate as you get old and the other kind might be indicative of some disorder? I'm old. -Quick These are normal, and althought the tissue that causes them was always in your eyes, changes in that tissue have caused them to migrate to where now you can *see* them. You did a good job of describing them. They do get worse (more numerous, more visibile, more mobile) with advancing age. w.stacy, o.d. > Ok, somebody posted a great summary on floaters in this > thread and I can't find it. If I sort of "throw" my eyes to the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm old. > -Quick Do the floaters get worse if I fly? I read this other story on www.eyefix.com about this guy who's floaters got worse after flying. >These are normal, and althought the tissue that causes them was always >in your eyes, changes in that tissue have caused them to migrate to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> I'm old. >> -Quick > Do the floaters get worse if I fly? I read this other story on > www.eyefix.com about this guy who's floaters got worse after flying. I don't think so. You might however notice them more during flying because the scenario where they are MOST visibile is when gazing at a bright, featureless sky. w.stacy, o.d. so if i stare at the sky, i might notice more floaters and become aware of more, making my condition worse? If my brain does tune them out, will it tune them out even if the floaters worsen? My apologies for all these questions, but I'm just terrified that I will have these floaters for life and that they will worsen, and prevent me from being a pilot. It's haunting. What can I do to make my eyes stop seeing afterimages? I see them much more often than I did before I had the floaters? Is this treatable, how? >> Do the floaters get worse if I fly? I read this other story on >> www.eyefix.com about this guy who's floaters got worse after flying. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >w.stacy, o.d. > so if i stare at the sky, i might notice more floaters and become aware of > more, making my condition worse? I suppose you could argue that being more aware of them is "making it worse" but not in the sense of creating new ones. > If my brain does tune them out, will it tune them out even if the floaters > worsen? Yes, unless they obstruct vision significantly. > My apologies for all these questions, but I'm just terrified that I will have > these floaters for life and that they will worsen, and prevent me from being > a pilot. It's haunting. Very unlikely. > What can I do to make my eyes stop seeing afterimages? I see them much more > often than I did before I had the floaters? Is this treatable, how? Afterimages are normal. Just stop staring at things long enough to generate them, or learn to enjoy them... w.stacy, o.d. Thanks once again, william Stacy. I feel much better now, and much more enthusiastic. I realized that flaoters are nothing to worry about, and I've been overdoing it. Don't know what made me think I was going blind, but anyways, thanks! I'm convinced my brain will tune out the floaters in 5 months time. I've started seeing flashing lights again,. shouldi go for an eye exam? >> so if i stare at the sky, i might notice more floaters and become aware of >> more, making my condition worse? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >w.stacy, o.d. |
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