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Medical Forum / General / Vision / June 2005

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This is what full correction practice has done to me, either that or genetics

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CHINESEMALE(age16) - 12 Jun 2005 04:57 GMT
According to Lenscrafters, the horrible vision I have at the age of
sixteen is genetic.  According to Lenscrafters, it is natural to only
be able to see four inches in front of my face without glasses.  It
was, for lack of a better term, my "crappy genetics".  The genetic
theory of glasses is horribly racist.  It denounces the asian gene as
horribly inferior.

If, infact, this myopia was genetic, then I would have to classify it
as a disease.  I'm sorry, but that's what it is.  Diabetes is a
"disease" and one of the "symptoms" is "myopia".

If you think about it from a
biological-natural-selection-Darwinism-point-of-view, the notion that
severe myopia is genetic is laughable.  With a focal length of 4
inches, one can not do anything in nature.  They would have tripped
over so many rocks and branches.  Thus, myopia is just another disease
caused by the modernization of man.  Add that to the fact that glasses
have only been invented 400 years ago, one can conclude that myopia is
horribly genetic.  Now if glasses were invented ever since man existed,
then I understand how man survived in nature without dying.  But if you
tell me that glasses were invented 400 years ago, then that tells me
that cave men theoretically had myopia as bad as mine and were probably
killed.  Also the fact that we were all born farsighted also tells me
something strange.  If we were genetically nearsighted then wouldn't we
all have been born nearsighted?

The Constitution and Christians say that we were all born equal.  Eye
doctors refuse to accept this, but would rather accept that some people
were born with perfect vision and others were born with horrible
vision.  And that, this is genetic, thus showing that we are NOT equal
WHATsoever.

This arguement cannot possible be countered, because it is the truth.
If you are a logical thinker, you should be able to weigh the facts.
If you think I am wrong, then please, ***logically*** disprove me.
CHINESEMALE(age16) - 12 Jun 2005 05:07 GMT
Whether the fact that my windows had fogging stickers on them had
anything to do with my myopia, the eye doctors do not care.  If four
inches of focal distance is the result of "treatment" which is horribly
administered to young children by eye doctors, then there is something
seriously wrong with the world.  If four inches of focusing power was
genetic, then I really should commit suicide, and so should anyone else
with vision this bad.  Yes, this is what full correction has done to
me.

I am so thankful that I was not undercorrected or had to go without
glasses, or my vision would be oh so much worse.  If you can't tell,
I'm being sarcastic, my vision is so damn bad I probably couldn't tell
the difference if my vision got worse with my glasses off.

So while it has been shown that undercorrecting has done some damage,
(which I'm not sure that I believe because the difference was only .2
diopters and the data might have been biased and most importantly the
children were not informed about "alternative methods"), full
correction has done a horrible amount of damage to me.  But why should
I worry, this was all "genetic".
otisbrown@pa.net - 12 Jun 2005 14:46 GMT
My Asian Brother,

Primative man, and primates in the wild have
refractive states (young eye -- no MEDICAL PROBLEMS)
had refractive states running from zero to +2 diopters.

Virtually all these eyes (with no medical problems0
would pass the DMV-Snellen standard.

Please rememver ALMOST ALL -- there are ALWAYS a
FEW EXCEPTIONS.

Thus or "movement" from a "open" enviroment to
a profoundly confined enviroment results
in our refractive states moving from a positive
value to a negative value (very slowly) -- as
a completely normal "control" process.

Your eye's are behaving "as designed".

Your genetics are good.  You bad visual habits,
"enhanced" by an over-prescribed minus
"did you in".  (In my opinion)

Let us all learn from the mistakes of the past,
and UNDERSAND the "Ambulance down in the valley".

Enjoy,

Otis
CHINESEMALE(age16) - 12 Jun 2005 19:13 GMT
>Let us all learn from the mistakes of the >past,
>and UNDERSAND the "Ambulance down in >the valley".

Did you make that poem?

See, why is it that when I make a logical argument, only Otis responds?
Neil Brooks - 12 Jun 2005 19:38 GMT
Why, indeed . . . .
Mike Tyner - 12 Jun 2005 22:04 GMT
> See, why is it that when I make a logical argument, only Otis responds?

When did you make a logical argument?  I missed it.

-MT
otisbrown@pa.net - 13 Jun 2005 02:11 GMT
Dear Logical and Analytical Asian Friend,

No, I obtained it from Donald Rehm.

It tells the story nicely!

I respond because I recognize a good scientifc
mind when I talk to you.

You should recognize people who like to act
as dictators like Neil Books.  They are
indeed "control freaks" --  your logical
mind should tell you that.

You are doing well so far -- and eventually
will arrive at the final scientific truth in due
course.

Best,

Otis
Dr. Leukoma - 13 Jun 2005 02:15 GMT
Otis, the control freak himself,  is exploding live on the internet.
Have we hit a nerve, Otis?

This is really quite entertaining.

DrG
Mike Tyner - 13 Jun 2005 03:32 GMT
> No, I obtained it from Donald Rehm.
>
> It tells the story nicely!

Telling stories doesn't count. Has Donald Rehm published any comparisons
involving humans wearing lenses?

Is he keeping his safety/efficacy data a secret?

-MT
otisbrown@pa.net - 13 Jun 2005 13:57 GMT
My Asian Friend,

The purpose of our discussions is to "clear the air",
on the subject of PREVENTING the development
of a NEGATIVE refractive state for the fundamental eye.

You have seen the countless inane statements made
about this pure-scientific review.  They truly
do not understand the issue.

Perhaps you will.

When you have children, and see the children pulling
their work in to 4 inches (-10 diopters) you will
know that it is YOUR responsibility to stop them from
doing that.

Your parents did not know of the necessity of stopping
YOU from doing this -- but now YOU DO.

There are many "stuffed shirts" in this world, and
with your "logical mind" you should begin to
figure this out.  There have been an
excessive number of "insulting remarks"
about this issue -- and about the necessity
of informing your and your parents of
then need for PREVENTIVE methods -- of
keeping the eye "in the distance" -- or
"heads up" off the table.

A remark was mad by Dr. Dave Guyton, that
he stated that kids should "look up" once
every hour.  Excellent.

But the next LOGICAL step, would be to
"look up" for the entire hour.

And THAT could ONLY be accomplished
by using a proper strength, reading at
the "just-blur" point.

Under control of the person himself, it is
clear that this "works" for the person
who:

1.  Monitors his Snellen,

2.  "Pushes print" with the plus as stated.

3.  Persists in this effort -- for as long as it takes.

4.  Works ONLY if used BEFORE a minus lens is worn.

5.  I advocated by "second opinion" optometrists
likd Steve Leung OD.

The point of the "Ambulance down in the valley" is that
the "phesanat" to undrstand the need for the "fence"
BEFORE he slips over the edge.

I guess that understanding this issue must
be up to the person himself.

This will be an issue of hou you personally deal with
your own children.   That is why we are going
through this "learning" process -- for those
with a mind "open" enough to understand it.

Best,

Otis
A Lieberman - 12 Jun 2005 19:26 GMT
> Your genetics are good.  You bad visual habits,
> "enhanced" by an over-prescribed minus
> "did you in".  (In my opinion)

Dear Chinesemale,

Please disregard Otis's opinions.  He is not in the medical profession and
not in any position to give medical advise or medical opinions.

Thank you!

Allen
silverblue001@hotmail.com - 12 Jun 2005 22:35 GMT
Well I really haven't gotten a chance to read the literature on the
causes of myopia, but from my experience, diseases/disorders rarely
have a single cause (i.e., just genetics, or just environment).  There
is often an interaction between the two.  I'll take a simple example:
phenylketonuria.  In this genetic disorder, individuals are unable to
break down the amino acid phenylalanine (which is found in meat, dairy
products, etc.).  Instead, the phenylalanine is converted into other
chemicals, which accumulate in the blood and interfere with the
development of brain cells, leading mental retardation.  IF HOWEVER, it
is detected early enough and treated nutritionally (i.e., no
phenylalanine), individuals can develop normally.  In this case, if you
change the environment, you change the outcome of the disease.
Similarly, if you don't have the genes for phenylketonuria, no matter
how much phenylalanine is in your diet, you will not see the
manifestations of the disorder.

One model that describes the interaction between (multiple) genes in
the environment is called the diathesis-stress model.  According to
this model, individuals inherit TENDENCIES to express certain traits or
behaviours, which may then be activated under conditions of stress
(i.e., the environment).  In other words, you inherit a vulnerability
to develop a certain disorder.  The greater your vulnerability, the
less stress is required to develop the disorder.  So let's just
assume for the moment that an environment that involves a lot of close
work is required for the development of myopia.  The greater your
vulnerability (which is inherited), the less close work (environment)
is required for the development and progression of myopia.  If you have
no vulnerability at all, no matter how much close work you do, you will
not become myopic.  My mother read constantly when she was a child.
She developed myopia at age 10 and her Rx stabilized at ~ -2.00 D
shortly thereafter.  I got my first pair glasses when I was 5.  I'm
21 and my Rx is still increasing.

Anyway, that was simply an attempt by me to convey to you that things
are rarely as simple as they seem.  Blaming your parents (or anyone
else) for the state of your eyes is rather pointless.  If there were a
treatment proven to be safe and effective, it would have been
implemented.  Unfortunately, finding a practical solution to the
problem is not as easy as it seems.  For example, I know of one study
in particular that found atropine slowed the progression of myopia.
Should everyone then jump on the atropine wagon?  Why not, right?!  But
wait, what are the effects of atropine on a developing eye?  And hey,
what about quality of life?

Many people claim to know all of the answers.  Let's take an example:
growth hormone.  There are TONS of websites out there that claim if
you take EXOGENOUS growth hormone you will become taller, your body
mass will decrease etc.  Anyone who knows anything about the nature of
GH knows that this is impossible (it cannot enter your bloodstream).
Ingesting GH exogenously is no different than eating food with high
protein content. =)  Interestingly, ENDOGENOUS growth hormone can
increase height in (young) adults because their vertebral column has
not yet fused.  Sadly, people get conned into buying these products
anyway.

It's okay to have your own opinion, but make sure you know the facts.
It's easy to derive conclusions from your own observations (or from
random internet websites which claim to know all of the answers), but
these conclusions are often false.  If you want to learn more about the
nature of myopia, try reading some (peer reviewed) scientific journal
articles, and read them with an open mind.  If you dismiss every piece
of evidence that goes against your personal beliefs, you won't learn
anything.

> According to Lenscrafters, the horrible vision I have at the age of
> sixteen is genetic.  According to Lenscrafters, it is natural to only
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> If you are a logical thinker, you should be able to weigh the facts.
> If you think I am wrong, then please, ***logically*** disprove me.
Neil Brooks - 13 Jun 2005 01:08 GMT
[snip]

Very well written.
 
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