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Medical Forum / General / Vision / June 2005

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Are eye organizations helping to inform you about prevention?

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otisbrown@pa.net - 03 Jun 2005 18:06 GMT
Dear Prevention minded friends,

Subject:  Do Organizations that work against your visual welfare?

Re:  Other organizations similar to the FDA -- and their outlook.
    Compiled by Don Rehm.

Re:  Alex Eulenberg set up i-see to counter the nonsense
    of these organizations.  He was basically gave up on
    sci.med.vision for this opposition to the "status quo".

Re:  It is valuable to know that some ODs have "woken up"
    to this offical nonsense -- and have their own
    childrens wearing the plus -- to avoid stair-case
    myopia from the minus.  But that is an individual
    judgment of the man -- protecting his own chidren,
    even as he realizes he can do nothing to help
    the general public at this time.

    You may wonder what the various "eye" organizations are doing
to offer you preventive alternatives, like "Bates" and the plus.

    Instead of doing "original" research, or supporting your
right to an "informed" second opinion, they ALL fall into the
habit of reporting the party line that there is no relationship
between the visual environment of the eye -- and its refractive
status.

    We have previously discussed the FDA protecting, not YOU, but
the "financial" interests of the ODs.  The facts tell the story of
the eye's behavior accurately.  Virtually anyone who examines the
objective factual, scientific data knows the "party line" is
false.

    Not only the FDA follows this intellectually blind "party
line", but the following organizations repeat it like a mantra.

    Bates himself became victim of this character assination
policy -- after he demonstrated successful results.  ALL his
fellow ophthalmologists "ganged up" on Bates to shut him up -- or
shut him down.    Here is the story of these malfunctioning
organizations for your thoughtful review.

    I do not know what your future may be -- but these
organizations are not our "leaders" for our future of clear
distant vision for life.

    What do you think?

    Best,

    Otis

     %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

        THE DEFENDERS OF "BUSINESS AS USUAL"

                       By Donald Rehm

      New England Ophthalmological Society - www.neos-eyes.org

    This is a union of 700 New England ophthalmologists that was
founded in 1884.  Unfortunately, their thinking has remained in
that time period.  Here is an unbelievable quote from their site
under the heading "seasonal tips." Note the statement that there
is no evidence to suggest that myopia is preventable.  Everyone in
this business knows there have been thousands of documents
published that suggest that very thing.  These MD's do not
hesitate to resort to outright lying if it serves their purpose.
It is because of this reactionary, profit-motivated stance that we
encourage the public to take their vision problems to
optometrists, not ophthalmologists.

    "Myopia is the most common, correctable eye problem.  It is
an hereditary condition.  A child's eye normally gets larger as he
grows, but the myopic eye becomes excessively large, long, and
egg-shaped instead of round.  In such a long eye, the retina is
too far away from the eye's cornea and lens to focus images
properly.  A person with an average eyeball who is
normally-sighted can focus the image of what he is seeing on the
retina, whereas a myopic person cannot do this for distant objects
without the help of glasses or other corrective methods.  The New
England Ophthalmological Society would like to dispel some myths
about myopia:

1.  There is no accepted scientific evidence to suggest that
   myopia or the progression of myopia is preventable by any
   method.

2.  Eye exercises do NOT prevent or correct myopia.

3.  Similarly, myopia is NOT caused or affected by reading too
   much, reading in poor light, or nutritional deficiencies.
   There are a variety of approaches for correcting
   nearsightedness.

[Comment:  They failed to mention reading "too close", i.e., kids
    who put their nose on the page and read at 4 inches (-10
    diopters).  I am certain they will continue to insist
    (against all scientific evidence) that there is no proof
    that the natural eye is dynamic.  Entrenched intellectual
    blindness of the worst sort.  I hope you have more personal
    wisdom about this specific issue. OSB]

    These include glasses, contact lenses, and, in recent years,
surgical or laser techniques.  Nearsighted people should have
yearly vision exams, especially during their growth years when
advancement of myopia is expected.  On rare occasions, myopia can
progress quite severely and result in uncorrectable vision and
sight problems.  Fortunately most people with myopia have healthy
eyes and good vision, with corrective methods.    This fact should
make the little nuisance of wearing lenses, or undergoing other
corrective methods, quite tolerable." *

* [Comment:  I object to this patronizing statement that
    "corrective" methods that create stair-case myopia are "quite
    tolerable".  I think Bates felt this way -- and so do I.
    OSB]

    Prevent Blindness America - www.preventblindness.org

    Formerly "The National Society to Prevent Blindness", this is
an organization devised and financially supported by doctors and
optical companies.  Many people feel that their goal is not to
prevent blindness but to drive in more business.  "Save Your
Vision Week" was created by the same type of people.  Although
myopia is a major cause of blindness, this organization seems
unaware of it.    Under Site Map/Eye Problems/Common Eye Myths you
will find five myths, of which three are myths themselves -

1.  "Using glasses" won't harm your eyes.

2.  "Reading in dim light will not hurt your eyes."

3.  "Regular eye exams can save your sight." (Not if the doctor
   prescribes minus lenses!)

    They seem to ignore ALL the research that shows the
connection between prolonged close work, eye's changing refractive
status -- resulting blindness in many people.  It would be better
to say nothing than to spread this "information" to the public.
Some "public-spirited" organization!

    On 11/15/01 Don Rehm received the following email.  Note that
our comments about this organization were not addressed.  They
just want to shut us up:

Daniel> To whom it may concern.  This information is inaccurate
    and we would appreciate you removing our name from you
    website immediately.  Thank you.

                 Daniel

[Daniel failed to identify or discuss precicely what
    "information" was "inaccurate" -- or to provide better
    information.  And this is the attitude about "Preventing
    Blindness", when stair-case myopia can end in detached retina
    an blindness.  OSB]

     American Academy Of Ophthalmology - www.eyenet.org

    Public Information/Refractive Errors will tell you that
myopia is a structural defect.    Sadly, some websites are just not
very informative.

          National Eye Institute - www.nei.nih.gov

    A search for "myopia" takes us on a long trip over The
Imperfect Eye/Some Problems Of Childhood/Refractive Errors/Myopia
to learn that "The eyeball is too long or the cornea is too
rounded and light is focused in front of the retina instead of
directly on it.  Eyeglasses or contact lenses can correct the
problem." How informative!  How many billions of our dollars have
they wasted?  As with most federal agencies, money talks and the
public interest comes last.  This website is a self-promoting
wastesite.

     Canadian Ophthalmological Society - www.eyesite.ca

    Search for "myopia" at this site and you will learn that "It
is an inherited condition usually detected in children between the
ages of eight and twelve.  Few factors outside of heredity affect
this condition.  Using dim light, reading too much or nutritional
deficiencies do not seem to impact it one way or the other."
Better not take your child to these fossils.

    American Optometric Association - www.aoanet.org

    What does this union of optometrists have to say about
myopia?  At Common Vision Conditions/Myopia, all you will find is
"There is also growing evidence that nearsightedness may be caused
by the stress of too much close work....Your optometrist can
prescribe glasses to correct nearsightedness....Refractive surgery
or laser procedures are also possible treatments." It would be
difficult to come up with a weaker, more uninformative statement
than that.  Eyeglasses or surgery - take your pick!  The AOA
spends a lot of money misinforming the public.
Neil Brooks - 03 Jun 2005 18:26 GMT
"otisbrown@pa.net" <otisbrown@pa.net> blathered:

>     Instead of doing "original" research, or supporting your
>right to an "informed" second opinion, they ALL fall into the
>habit of reporting the party line that there is no relationship
>between the visual environment of the eye -- and its refractive
>status.

Actually, they simply say that nobody has come up with a proven
effective method to prevent the progression of myopia.  

Clinical trials are underway to determine the efficacy of using
pirenzepine, muscarinic receptor antagonist which retards axial growth
of the eye.

You're welcome to put forward a clinical trial proposition of your
own, Otis.  The bar for proving *your* theory is the same as the bar
for everybody else.  Quit whining and set about proving it.

>     We have previously discussed the FDA protecting, not YOU, but
>the "financial" interests of the ODs.  

The vast optometric conspiracy again.  Sigh....

>The facts tell the story of
>the eye's behavior accurately.  Virtually anyone who examines the
>objective factual, scientific data knows the "party line" is
>false.

But that doesn't mean that what you propose is true.

>     Not only the FDA follows this intellectually blind "party
>line", but the following organizations repeat it like a mantra.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>shut him down.    Here is the story of these malfunctioning
>organizations for your thoughtful review.

Where did Bates prove his methodology was effective?  Cite, please.

>     I do not know what your future may be -- but these
>organizations are not our "leaders" for our future of clear
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>this business knows there have been thousands of documents
>published that suggest that very thing.  

and yet you can't cite even one that shows effective prevention of
myopia/myopia progression in humans.  That's astounding!

>These MD's do not
>hesitate to resort to outright lying if it serves their purpose.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>     "Myopia is the most common, correctable eye problem.  It is
>an hereditary condition.  

Whoops.  There's a setback for you, Otis.

>A child's eye normally gets larger as he
>grows, but the myopic eye becomes excessively large, long, and
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>    myopia or the progression of myopia is preventable by any
>    method.

Hm.  That doesn't really support your case, now does it, Otis?

>2.  Eye exercises do NOT prevent or correct myopia.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>     (against all scientific evidence) that there is no proof
>     that the natural eye is dynamic.  

Now there's your contrived term again, Otis.  Nobody's even
*discussing* that term but you.  The only thing you use it for is to
serve up a big plate of red herring.  

What everybody is saying (everybody, that is, who is not distracted by
your red herring arguments) is that there is no proof that your
vaunted plus-lens therapy is effective in preventing myopia
(progression) in humans.

No proof.  None.  Not any.  Zero.  Could you set about proving it . .
. or would you rather stay here and whine?

>Entrenched intellectual
>     blindness of the worst sort.  I hope you have more personal
>     wisdom about this specific issue. OSB]

Perhaps you could impart some of that wisdom?

>     These include glasses, contact lenses, and, in recent years,
>surgical or laser techniques.  Nearsighted people should have
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>     tolerable".  I think Bates felt this way -- and so do I.
>     OSB]

And neither of you has offered a proven effective alternative.

[remaining redundant OSB BS snipped for brevity]

With the remainder of your post, all you've illustrated is that the
most prestigious organizations concerned with eyesight *disagree* with
you.  Nobody is questioning that.

Again, I must implore you, OSB: prove your case.

Nobody's stopping you.  In fact, virtually *all* on s.m.v. are
*encouraging* you to prove that what you say is effective in humans.

Why do you refuse?

Why do you just try to play martyr against the vast ocular conspiracy?
Wouldn't it be easier just to work with a college of optometry to set
up trials?

Wouldn't you feel better eliminating this opprobrium from your life??
It would be so simple, too.  Just work with objective, capable people
and prove out your theory.  It *could* fall flat, sure, but your
belief alone should be enough to see its success, no?

Or . . . you could just keep citing sources who disagree with you,
then wondering why nobody really views you as credible.

Your choice, I suppose....
AsianMale - 05 Jun 2005 05:02 GMT
> "otisbrown@pa.net" <otisbrown@pa.net> blathered:
>
[quoted text clipped - 169 lines]
>
> Your choice, I suppose....

I thought he already proved it with stories like "the printer's son".
otisbrown@pa.net - 05 Jun 2005 13:56 GMT
Dear Friend,

Re:  "The Printer's Son"

You do what these ODs do not do.  You read the statements
and UNDERSTAND THEM.

Raphaelson was successful with the plus as he stated.

The DIRECT experimental data (i.e., primates) simply
confirms that the natural eye VERY SLOWLY changes
its refractive state in the direction of the applied
minus lens.

This is very straight-forward, and follows Ockum's law
in science.

I PROMOTE ODs like Raphaelson and Steve Leung -- because
we mus LEARN from them.  The process is not easy,
and must start before the minus lens is used.

It also suggest that we must LEARN how to do this
at the threshold.  That reflects on a choice your parents
or YOU would be making.

These ODs judge that EVERYTHING must be reduced
to a "magic solution" that THEY supply in 10 minutes.

Apparently they do not respect your intelligence in this
matter, and feel you lack the intellectual judgment
to understand the concept of the "second opinion",
and your ability to implement it correctly.

I have repeatedly exetended my hand in friendship
to these ODs -- only to have "blasts" posted against
the competent second-opinion as expressed by
Steve Leung OD.

These "blasts" are to maintain their "position".  They
are not about protecting your long-term visual welfare.

This a learning process.  Keep an open mind my friend.

www.chinamyopia.org

Best,

Otis
Neil Brooks - 05 Jun 2005 14:21 GMT
>You do what these ODs do not do.  You read the statements
>and UNDERSTAND THEM.

The OD's seem to understand them just fine.  They simply await proof
that these anecdotal stories (about three seem to float around, if you
count Raphaelson's) have *any* scientific validity to the broader
population *of humans*.

Why is it so beyond your grasp to endeavor that proof?

>Raphaelson was successful with the plus as he stated.

Again, 100 years later and there's still no proof that what he says
(and what you say) works.  We're still waiting.

>The DIRECT experimental data (i.e., primates) simply
>confirms that the natural eye VERY SLOWLY changes
>its refractive state in the direction of the applied
>minus lens.

Back to Mike's comment, then: all neonatal chickens should buy Otis's
book.

>This is very straight-forward, and follows Ockum's law
>in science.

Should make it rather easier to prove in *human* trials (where it
seems to have failed), then, don't you think?

As the one whom you took to task for my misspelling of "Helmholtz,"
may I congratulate you on an impressive piece of butchering on "Occam"
:-)

>I PROMOTE ODs like Raphaelson and Steve Leung -- because
>we mus LEARN from them.  The process is not easy,
>and must start before the minus lens is used.

So what better way to promote them than to organize the trials that
*just might* prove the validity of their theories??

[insults to optometrists snipped]

>I have repeatedly exetended my hand in friendship
>to these ODs -- only to have "blasts" posted against
>the competent second-opinion as expressed by
>Steve Leung OD.

I don't know that the doctors want 'your hand in friendship,' Otis.  I
think what they want--for the betterment of vision care and in the
interests of science--is some proof that what you incessantly spout
works.

Can you prove this?

>These "blasts" are to maintain their "position".  They
>are not about protecting your long-term visual welfare.

So, Asian Male (and others): the only one who cares about you is
Otiss.  Now here: drink this Kool-aid and fall gently off to sleep . .
.

I've mentioned this before, Otis.  If you're trying to be a cult
leader, your charisma is getting sold short in this medium.  You
really should start it over there in Pennsylvania.  Land is relatively
cheap and--with unemployment hovering around 5%--you're bound to find
candidates who will follow you . . . shall I say 'blindly?'
Mike Tyner - 05 Jun 2005 15:51 GMT
> The DIRECT experimental data (i.e., primates) simply
> confirms that the natural eye VERY SLOWLY changes
> its refractive state in the direction of the applied
> minus lens.

While the direct experimental data in HUMANS shows they DON'T respond the
same.

So what happened to the 100-day time constant?

> This is very straight-forward, and follows Ockum's law
> in science.

False and misleading information. Ockham's law doesn't apply unless your
hypothesis fits ALL the facts.

Minus lenses don't cause myopia progression in humans. You haven't presented
ANY data that shows otherwise.

> I PROMOTE ODs like Raphaelson and Steve Leung -- because
> we mus LEARN from them.  The process is not easy,
> and must start before the minus lens is used.

So why haven't Raphaelson or Leung produced any comparitive data showing
that lenses can cause or prevent changes in human anatomy?

We call it "efficacy". Show us efficacy.

> It also suggest that we must LEARN how to do this
> at the threshold.  That reflects on a choice your parents
> or YOU would be making.

Please show us some evidence that your preventive therapy works. Then we can
all participate. Until then, only unlicensed practitioners can use it.

> These ODs judge that EVERYTHING must be reduced
> to a "magic solution" that THEY supply in 10 minutes.

When I prescribe antibiotics or anti-glaucoma drugs, they don't work in 10
minutes. Comparitive human data shows they DO work, over time. Comparitive
human data shows YOUR therapy does NOT work.

> I have repeatedly exetended my hand in friendship
> to these ODs -- only to have "blasts" posted against
> the competent second-opinion as expressed by
> Steve Leung OD.

But your "hand in friendship" consists of unproven hypotheses unsupported by
comparitive human data. Then you follow with subjective and emotional
diatribes, in which you ignore documented human evidence.

> These "blasts" are to maintain their "position".  They
> are not about protecting your long-term visual welfare.

Evidently you don't know, so this is an example of "subjective emotional
diatribe." Show us efficacy. Show us a difference between treated and
untreated groups. That would be welcome in sci.med.vision. Until then your
rants are off-topic. Please take them to alt.med.vision.improve.

-MT
William Stacy - 03 Jun 2005 18:55 GMT
 they ALL fall into the
> habit of reporting the party line that there is no relationship
> between the visual environment of the eye -- and its refractive
> status.

Coming from someone who has hung around this group and who has actually
studied the subject for as long as you have, for you to make that
statement defies all reason and is really beyond belief.  I don't know a
single O.D. or M.D. who doesn't believe that indeed there IS A
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE VISUAL ENVIRONMENT AND ITS REFRACTIVE STATE! It
has been well documented, and most of the research that documents it was
actually done by members of the organizations you condemn. We just don't
buy YOUR "party line" that plus lenses can overcome that well known
relationship. It's been proven too many times that plus lenses, strong
or weak, cannot prevent or reduce myopia to any statistically
significant degree, no matter "how hard" the subjects try. No amount of
mindless repetition of your "party line" is going to change it.  No
amount of feeble repetition of your extremely meager and uncorroborated
"examples of success" is going to change it.

w.stacy, o.d.
Mike Tyner - 03 Jun 2005 19:49 GMT
> the eye's behavior accurately.  Virtually anyone who examines the
> objective factual, scientific data knows the "party line" is
> false.

Factual, scientific data like Shotwell's study, huh? Parssinnen? COMET?

Where is your factual, scientific data on humans?

-MT
RM - 05 Jun 2005 05:07 GMT


> Dear Prevention minded friends,
>
> Subject:  Do Organizations that work against your visual welfare?

================================

Otis "Engineer" is a zealot who advocates his "plus lens" prevention theory
without good reason.  There is no scientific data to prove what he proposes.
He would ask that all myopes (=nearsighted persons) go around wearing plus
reading glasses in hopes that it will eventually reverse their
nearsightedness.  Nevermind that the blurry distance vision that myopes
complain about is made worse by plus lenses!  Nevermind that there is no
proof for what he claims.

If you are interested in Otis' approach, I have some other links that you
might also be interested in:

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For information on killfilling (filtering out the posts of a troll or
spammer like Otis) see the following link:
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
For additional information on handling "trolls", refer to this link:
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
 
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