Medical Forum / General / Vision / April 2005
-23 D list of examinations and prescriptions
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g.gatti@agora.it - 22 Apr 2005 01:05 GMT Later I will publish the actual sheets.
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5/82 o. 1/10 ??
anche cicloplegia
o.d. -9 mentre o.s. -4
per il momento ... una correzione un po' più bassa salvo controllo in atropina tra 4 o 5 mesi
al fondo alterazioni miopiche con, soprattutto la destra, pupilla alquanto ... (foliata)
p2 ---> o.d. -3, --> o.s. -2, 18/12/1982
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8/12/1982
post. -3 -2 = 5/20
o.d. -7 = 5/40 o.s. -5 = 5/75
o.d. -9 o.s. -5.
-75 -35 +
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5/11/1984
o.d. -75 circa 6/20 o.s. -35 circa ...
o.d. -11 = 5/10 o.s. -5 = 5/...
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3/9/1984
post. o.d. -9 = 5/20 o.s. -4,50 = 5/10
o.d. -13 o.s. -5
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4/1985
post. o.d. -10 o.s. -4,5
o.d. -12 = 5/20 o.s. -6 = 5/10
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10/1985
-10 -4,5
o.d. = -12 o.s. = -6
o.d. = -11 o.s. = -5,5
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4/86
-12 = 5/20 -6,50 = 5/...
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1/1987
o.d. -11 o.s. -6,50
o.d. -13 o.s. -8
-11,50 -7
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prescrizioni
1983
o.d. -750 o.s. -350
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1984
o.d. -9 o.s. -4,50
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1985
o.d. -11 o.s. -5,50
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1987
o.d. -11,50 o.s. -7,25
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1988
o.d. -11,50 o.s. -9
attenta alla centratura lenti al titanio antiriflesso montatura piccola tonda o quadrata, no metallica
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1992
o.d. -12 o.s. -12
attenta alla centratura lenti al titanio antiriflesso montatura piccola tonda o quadrata, no metallica
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1999
o.d. -16 o.s. -16
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22/07/2003
autorefrattometria o.d. -18,00 -1,0 (50°) o.s. -15,25 -0,50 (122°)
o.d. v.corr -21,50 -1,0 (60°) 9/10 o.s. v.corr -16,50 -0,75 (110°) 10/10
visita ortottica ortoferia buona convergenza visus midriasi o.d. -21,50 -1,0 (60°) 8/10 o.s. -17,50 -0,75 (110°) 7-8/10
esami strumentali: orbita e AXL iolmaster
autorefrattometria in midriasi: o.d. -18,25 -0,75 (60°) o.s. -15,00 -0,50 (75°)
mezzi diottrici: ... fondo oculare: distrofia miopica grave
chiamare tra 10 giorni per prl
oftalmologica: molto miope, usa lac sr, tolte da 4 giorni.
interessata a refrattiva.
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canon r-20
23/4/97 18:48
right sph -23, cyl -1,50, axis 45°, v.d. = 12 left sph -18,50 cyl -0,75, axis 110°
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canon r-20
26/11/2003
right sph -19,75, cyl -0,70, axis 70°, v.d. = 0,0 left sph -16,50 cyl -0,25, axis 50°
lieve iperemia, fondo oculare: grave coradosi miopica senza lesioni della periferia
terapia: tegens, myops
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There are other pages too.
otisbrown@pa.net - 22 Apr 2005 03:07 GMT Dear Rishi,
I expect the ODs will come up with some method of "explaining away" this report.
Incidentally, if you take a population of natural primates, and place a minus lens on half of them, their eyes will show this "negative movement" as a natural process.
But let us wait for the OD commentary that:
1. This Ph.D. doest not exits.
2. Rishi does not exist.
3. The Ph.D. can't read her prescription of -23 diopters.
As always, enjoy our pleasant discussion about the dynamic nature of the fundamental eye.
Please also remember that not all the ODs in this world hold this rabid opinion, that enviroment had NO EFFECT on the refractive state of the natural eye.
Some are developing the "preventive" second opinion, even as we speak.
See:
www.chinamyopia.org
Neither science, nor medicine is EVER a "finished" business, and that is the purpose of Google -- so that we can develop new scientific ideas and preceptions and solve this difficult problem.
Best,
Otis Engineer
otisbrown@pa.net - 22 Apr 2005 05:39 GMT Dear Rishi,
I see the term "auto-refractor".
Maybe this OD was using a "busted" auto-refractor.
It is hard to explain these "prescriptions".
Even if the -23 diopters was "caused" by a single "bad measurement", the -16 diopter is "real".
Just incredible. Has the OD who provided all these "measurements" been contacted?
Eyes just do not "snap" out of -16 dipoters of myopia.
I believe that she reads at least 20/100 on the sun-light Snellen.
It is too-bad that the OD making these measurements did not double check in a realistic setting.
Normal visual acuity will be slightly less for a room-illuminated eye-chart.
In semi-darkness, using a projected Snellen, can add perhaps a -2.0 diopters to a prescription.
But "clearing" of this nature is incredible.
But give her my best wishes.
Does she have any idea as to what was going on with this OD and his "prescriptions"?
Best,
Otis
Neil Brooks - 22 Apr 2005 07:23 GMT >Just incredible. Another way to phrase it would be: bull$hit.
I wore the minus around the house last night. I went to bed nearly a +8.00, but woke up plano.
Disprove that.
You can't can you . . . but still, you find it difficult to accept, right?
Sound familiar?
g.gatti@agora.it - 22 Apr 2005 09:30 GMT > I see the term "auto-refractor". > > Maybe this OD was using a "busted" auto-refractor. I don't know what is busted, the brand was canon and the model R-20, as it is written in my message.
> It is hard to explain these "prescriptions". It is not hard, this is what this criminals to instead of treating the patients as they should.
> Even if the -23 diopters was "caused" by a single "bad measurement", > the -16 diopter is "real". No, this -23 was repeated in different session and with DIFFERENT O.D.
However I was a little inaccurate, and Stacy was partially right.
The girl never used eyeglasses more powerful than 16 dioptres.
She DID use eyecontacts of -23 D.
So there was a misunderstanding.
When she wore the -16 D, she could not see the eyechart, was really very much undercorrected, but this was because otherwise she could not do her near work.
> Just incredible. Has the OD who provided all these > "measurements" been contacted? These people do not want to see her anymore, since she complains that they cannot do anything good for her.
> I believe that she reads at least 20/100 on the sun-light > Snellen. She read 10/20 indoors.
> But "clearing" of this nature is incredible. It is a work in progress, she has an useful base vision and sometimes flashes of much better vision.
She has a myopic distrofia to cure, so I think, given these the organic changes to the eye, the cure will not be istantaneous, although Dr. Bates claimed that IF the patient was able to perfectly imagine a small black dot in the mind, all organic changes will return to normal istantaneously.
As far as today, she is not able to imagine perfectly a small black dot in the mind.
Mike Tyner - 22 Apr 2005 14:22 GMT > Bates claimed that IF the patient was able to perfectly > imagine a small black dot in the mind, all organic changes > will return to normal istantaneously. Have you had any luck treating diseases this way?
-MT
g.gatti@agora.it - 22 Apr 2005 15:29 GMT > Have you had any luck treating diseases this way? I understand your misery.
Fortunately I have nobody to treat, I just share session of self-treatment.
I watch the eyechart, my friend watches the eyechart.
Just a community of friends, nobody that treats anybody.
But you could start by treating yourself.
When you have to read your papers and you fail, without glasses, try the black point.
It may work, it may not work.
If you do it well, it will work.
There are no exceptions!
(says Bates)
Mike Tyner - 22 Apr 2005 19:09 GMT > If you do it well, it will work. > > There are no exceptions! > > (says Bates) Some people believe everything they read.
-MT
g.gatti@agora.it - 22 Apr 2005 20:19 GMT > > (says Bates) > > Some people believe everything they read. > > -MT You too, Mr. Tyner.
You believe in your wicked studies, so called.
About the cure of imperfect sight, what do you have to comment?
Mike Tyner - 22 Apr 2005 05:40 GMT > Incidentally, if you take > a population of natural primates, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "negative movement" > as a natural process. But all the human studies show no difference between people who wear glasses and people who don't.
Deal with that.
-MT
otisbrown@pa.net - 22 Apr 2005 05:52 GMT Dear Mike,
I have. When a plus is properly used, the group wearing a properly fitted plus showed no further movement into nearsightedness.
The group wearing a single-minus showed a rate of -1/2 diopter per year.
For your screwed up studies, using a small-segment wear the kids did not look through the plus -- the result was that both groups were effectively wearing a single-minus.
That means that both groups went "down" at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year. But that is the effect of putting the "foxes" in charge of the "chicken coop". Yes I understand your incompetency in running your "own" studies my friend.
The more accurate result -- to determine the EXACT behavior of the natural eye is to control BOTH the average-visual environment and MEASURE the refractive status (both plus and minus) of the adolescent primate eye.
When you apply a negative change in the "input" the "output" refractive state follows the
e ^ -t/TAU function.
The refractive state of the all natural eyes (in scientific testing) is correlated to its average visual enviroment.
You small-segment "bifocal" studies are not worthy of trust.
Even your fellow ODs (as the second-opinion) do not "trust" them, and in fact have their own children wearing the plus at the threshold (when is must be used to be effective) -- because they do not want THEIR children to develop this "stair-case" nearsighedness -- that is in fact CONFIRMED by these single-minus studies.
Further, this young woman was apparently subjected to a series of over-prescribed minus lenses, and developed the same "stair-case" myopia from the age of five.
I hope she it not too up-set about not being offered true-prevention when it could have been effective.
Best,
Otis
Mike Tyner - 22 Apr 2005 06:19 GMT > I have. When a plus is properly used, the group wearing > a properly fitted plus showed no further movement > into nearsightedness. We would appreciate a citation.
You repeatedly claim that myopes wearing glasses get worse than myopes who don't.
We would like to know where you find that information because all the studies we can find show otherwise.
> That means that both groups went "down" at > a rate of -1/2 diopter per year. But that is > the effect of putting the "foxes" in charge > of the "chicken coop". Yes I understand > your incompetency in running your "own" > studies my friend. I don't run studies. Nor do you.
Perhaps you could demonstrate your competence by putting together a statistically valid comparison.
Maybe you can do what nobody else has been able to do. Good luck. Get back to us when you're finished.
-MT
Dr. Leukoma - 22 Apr 2005 13:17 GMT I hope you keep posting in this vein. It clearly demonstrates your anti-optometry agenda.
By the way, I wasn't aware that Italy had optometrists.
DrG
g.gatti@agora.it - 22 Apr 2005 15:24 GMT > I hope you keep posting in this vein. It clearly demonstrates your > anti-optometry agenda. ???
What are you saying? I don't understand.
Just I am publishing prescriptions given to me by my client.
> By the way, I wasn't aware that Italy had optometrists. ???
otisbrown@pa.net - 22 Apr 2005 16:01 GMT Dear DrG,
As you know, what I am FOR is a person's right to a second-opinion -- that the person be offered a CHOICE, and directed TOWARDS OPTOMETRISTS who will HELP the person with the PREVENTIVE second opinion.
You personally have the right to turn a person down -- concerning prevention with the plus, but I judge you should make "new cases" aware of this second-opinion expressed by the highly qualified optometrist Steve Leung, and described at
www.chinamyopia.org
Clearly I am NOT "anti-optometry". I am against the mindless use of an over-prescribed minus lens -- at the threshold -- when prevention can be effective.
It is the person's right to "know" about this preventive method, and indeed, his right to turn it down -- with full knowledge of the consequences TO HIM of that rejection.
Yes, I am "pro" change -- in a reasonle manner, and against an incredibly closed mind.
Best,
Otis
Dr. Leukoma - 22 Apr 2005 16:53 GMT Otis,
On the internet, there are a myriad of "opinions." There is a big issue among information scientists about the quality of information to be found on the internet. If somebody like you can elevate themselves to a position of authority on the prevention of myopia, what is to prevent someone like Rishi from doing the same using the internet?
As somebody who has ignored virtually all modern progress in myopia research, you are in a rather precarious position to talk about other people's closed minds.
Think about it.
DrG
g.gatti@agora.it - 22 Apr 2005 18:30 GMT > be found on the internet. If somebody like you can elevate themselves > to a position of authority on the prevention of myopia, what is to > prevent someone like Rishi from doing the same using the internet? I am simply doing my work of licensed journalist and publisher!
What do you want?
I think I have the right to say what I want.
I do not earn money treating patients.
I just collect facts and disseminate them.
What do you want???
> As somebody who has ignored virtually all modern progress in myopia > research, you are in a rather precarious position to talk about other > people's closed minds. You understand nothing about myopia, otherwise you should be able to cure it.
Please, mind your own business.
Mike Tyner - 22 Apr 2005 19:39 GMT > I just collect facts and disseminate them. You collect rumors and sensational myths. You believe everything you read. You don't verify facts before publishing.
These are the characteristics of a yellow journalist.
-MT
g.gatti@agora.it - 22 Apr 2005 20:21 GMT > You collect rumors and sensational myths. You believe everything you read. > You don't verify facts before publishing. I verify everything I write.
For example, the young lady, a biologist, I spent a day with.
I have pictures.
I know what I say.
Please take back your statement.
Neil Brooks - 22 Apr 2005 22:53 GMT >> You collect rumors and sensational myths. You believe everything you >read. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Please take back your statement. That's called faith, not fact.
Faith (Webster's): "firm belief in something for which there is no proof"
That's you, Rishi!
g.gatti@agora.it - 23 Apr 2005 08:50 GMT > That's called faith, not fact. > > Faith (Webster's): "firm belief in something for which there is no > proof" I have never met a more stupid person like you, as far as your words are concerned.
That engineer had proof of the system working for himself.
That is indeed the only proof that counts.
You should stay silent because you suffer from high imperfect sight, so you have no authority to talk of these matters.
At least learn before you speak.
People are getting cures for themselves.
They have discarded your false science and have decided to follow the new science.
The new science is at least 100 years old, but still is a new science.
Neil Brooks - 23 Apr 2005 16:45 GMT >You should stay silent because you suffer from high imperfect sight, so >you have no authority to talk of these matters. Jonas Salk didn't have polio.
Don't think Edward Jenner had smallpox.
>People are getting cures for themselves. But not from you.
>They have discarded your false science and have decided to follow the >new science. . . . right into a brick wall.
>The new science is at least 100 years old, but still is a new science. What, pray tell, is that science. Please verify that it meets the standards of the scientific method. Here. I'll provide a link to refresh your memory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
g.gatti@agora.it - 23 Apr 2005 20:09 GMT > Jonas Salk didn't have polio. He was a healthy man, and did healthy things.
> Don't think Edward Jenner had smallpox. You are not healthy, you have imperfect sight, and a very bad one.
Cure yourself and then teach me how you did. Then, I will listen.
> >People are getting cures for themselves. > > But not from you. I'm just a journalist and a publisher, and maybe a friend.
> What, pray tell, is that science. Please verify that it meets the > standards of the scientific method. Here. I'll provide a link to > refresh your memory: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method It is: science treats with facts and reproducibility.
If you get 100 people and instructe them how to palm successfully, you will get 100% better vision.
This is science.
SOme will be cured by only that.
The scientist should work to KNOW why some get the cure so quickly.
This is science.
Evaristo - 23 Apr 2005 21:57 GMT >What, pray tell, is that science. Please verify that it meets the >standards of the scientific method. Here. I'll provide a link to >refresh your memory: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method Hmm interesting... I read:
"Scientists assume an attitude of openness and accountability on the part of those conducting an experiment. "
Just like YOUR ATTITUDE toward Rishi's experiments,
My dear Science Man, go eat an apple !
Lol
-- "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes."
Dr. Leukoma - 24 Apr 2005 12:50 GMT I wish to report on the case of a woman who went from -7.50 to -3.50 spontaneously. She did not have to stop wearing her glasses, she did not have to "palm" or gaze at the sun. This case is fully documented.
CONCLUSION: A miracle occurred.
DrG
Mike Tyner - 24 Apr 2005 13:11 GMT >I wish to report on the case of a woman who went from -7.50 to -3.50 > spontaneously. She did not have to stop wearing her glasses, she did > not have to "palm" or gaze at the sun. This case is fully documented. > > CONCLUSION: A miracle occurred. See? Perfect vision is easy!
-MT
Mike Tyner - 22 Apr 2005 23:13 GMT > I verify everything I write. So, you've seen organic disease cured by imagining a black dot?
-MT
g.gatti@agora.it - 24 Apr 2005 13:16 GMT > > I verify everything I write. > > So, you've seen organic disease cured by imagining a black dot? I verify everything I write about the journalistic part of my magazine, that is, the actual part of the business.
About the most radical claims of Dr. Bates, I'm going to verify that in time.
For example, the self-treatment of this young lady is most interesting because she now sees MUCH better than before, so it is CLEAR, by inference, that her eyes have shortened, so even organically I have witnessed that.
She is not able to imagine perfectly a very microscopic and distant black dot, otherwise she could have been altready cured.
You are in a position much more favourable than mine: you are a doctor and could treat patient in the right way and accumulate much evidence. Why don't you do it, it is simply unbelievable!
But I see that in all this time (three years?) I'm on this board, something is cracking in your hard convictions, perhaps in another three years someone of you may start to check the truth for themselves.
Mike Tyner - 24 Apr 2005 13:33 GMT > For example, the self-treatment of this young lady is most interesting > because she now sees MUCH better than before, so it is CLEAR, by > inference, that her eyes have shortened, so even organically I have > witnessed that. See there's the problem - you're an unreliable witness.
You did not "witness" her eyes get shorter unless you did ultrasound or MRI.
You "witnessed" her acuity improve.
You ASSUME her eyes got shorter.
You ASSUME her refraction improved.
You ASSUME her improvement was due to the techniques in an 80-year-old book.
You ASSUME that every myope can shorten their eyes.
You ASSUME that doctors are criminal because they don't accept your ASSUMPTIONS.
-MT
-MT
g.gatti@agora.it - 24 Apr 2005 19:34 GMT > > For example, the self-treatment of this young lady is most interesting > > because she now sees MUCH better than before, so it is CLEAR, by [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You ASSUME her eyes got shorter. Yes, because you teach me that IT IS IMPOSSIBLE BY SCIENCE that a -23 D refracted person can recognize license plates numbers at 15 meters.
I will be out of town for a few days.
See you later.
Neil Brooks - 25 Apr 2005 02:02 GMT >> > For example, the self-treatment of this young lady is most >interesting [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >See you later. Don't worry about short-term memory losses. They are a known side effect of electroconvulsive therapy. I'm sure the doctors will do everything that they can for you.
Best of luck!
Dr. Leukoma - 22 Apr 2005 19:56 GMT > You understand nothing about myopia, otherwise you should be able to > cure it. You understand nothing about axial myopia, or you would know it cannot be "cured."
I'll bet some of your "patients" have been harmed by taking your advice to stare into the sun.
DrG
g.gatti@agora.it - 22 Apr 2005 20:34 GMT > You understand nothing about axial myopia, or you would know it cannot > be "cured." Yes, you know very well.
The fact is that this lady from - 23D is really curing herself.
Her vision is better every day.
You are MOST ignorant about axial myopia.
> I'll bet some of your "patients" have been harmed by taking your advice > to stare into the sun. Nobody gets damage from the sun.
When I say nobody, I mean it.
Today an engineer came to buy my book.
He has a -2,50 D prescription.
This is ridicoulous.
He went to ask for the lasik operation, and the surgeon was very very happy to operate.
Then the engineer decided to investigate, and found websites about Bates.
After few days he sorted out the bullshit websites and the true stuff.
The true stuff he found on my website, http://www.vistaperfetta.it
I was determined to demonstrate quickly how the cure works.
In a park near my house, I asked him to take off his silly glasses and look at the church tower.
He could not see the numbers but could guess the time since the clock is very clear: white background with black thick hands.
I was determined to demonstrate how to see the numbers.
After having read Dr. Bates "fundamental principle" page, and after having contemplated the ptinciple of "central fixation", he became able, in flashes, to see some parts of the figures.
Then I asked him to put on his glasses.
He was a little bit surprised to find them stronger.
He said he saw "everything perfectly".
Then I asked him to see again without the glasses.
He was shocked to see how the glasses had destroyed his previous improvements.
I asked him to remember the vision WITH the eyeglasses on and tell me if was not true that he saw things "perfectly" but was not able to remember any detail in full.
He agreed with me that the vision was not so perfect in the sense that was focussed but he saw things all at once, hence the difficulty in remembering them.
I asked him to read a page in fine print which I have added in the appendix.
And then to watch the clock again.
He was surprised to see that figures were coming out, although not continuously, but in flashes of better vision.
After a few minutes, I saluted him and he went away without the glasses.
I don't know what he will do in the future.
Perhaps he will resume the use of the glasses.
He was trained as an engineer, and his comment about what he had tried as Bates work was "likely to work".
This is for the record, his name is Davide A.
Neil Brooks - 23 Apr 2005 02:03 GMT [usual bull$hit snipped]
When you have proof--according to the scientific method--that what you're talking about works, then we'll be happy to listen.
Otherwise, you're just making up fictional stories and asking people to believe them so you can sell them a book.
Here's a link, again, to help you understand the scientific method:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
Here's another link to help you understand what you're currently doing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan
Ciao for now....
Dr. Leukoma - 23 Apr 2005 13:30 GMT I know for a fact that some patient's eyes have been damaged by staring at the sun. This can be shown by taking a photograph of the retina. I would imagine that there are quite a number of people out there who have experienced solar damage to the retina because of your advice.
DrG
g.gatti@agora.it - 23 Apr 2005 21:04 GMT > I know for a fact that some patient's eyes have been damaged by staring > at the sun. This can be shown by taking a photograph of the retina. I > would imagine that there are quite a number of people out there who > have experienced solar damage to the retina because of your advice. Stupid people who look at the sun in the wrong way, for example with eyeglasses on and without blinking, may have damages. But these are not permanent and heal in about 6 months.
Time for a cure of damaged retina will be shorter if people removes the eyeglasses and starts the practice of rest methods.
I have gathered quite an experience in this field, I am now able to look at the midday sun for 950 seconds without any damage.
If you have patient to whom I can be of help, let them send me an email and I will try to instruct them in the art of sun-gazing.
Photographs of the retina are not a proof of damaged function.
This is reported by many scientists.
If you adhere to the truth, tell the whole storym, not only your vested interest part.
Thanks.
Mike Tyner - 22 Apr 2005 19:16 GMT > It is the person's right to "know" about this preventive method, > and indeed, his right to turn it down -- with full knowledge > of the consequences TO HIM of that rejection. We're all for it. I would like to advertise this service for my patients. Just show us that it works.
And while you're at it, show us a published study showing myopes wearing glasses get worse than those who don't.
For what, two years now we've been asking you for this. Where is it published?
I'm quite serious. I prescribe minus several times a day. All my sources say it causes negligible change in the natural course of myopia.
You say different. If you have some new evidence my professors didn't know about, I need that information.
If not, why are you presenting conjecture as fact?
-MT
otisbrown@pa.net - 24 Apr 2005 04:45 GMT Dear Mike,
You "cojecture" is that the natural eye is NOT DYNAMIC, and you can ASSUME you can represent the eye as a FROZEN box camera.
This was ACCEPTED 140 years ago, because it was so simple. But today there is a mass of direct, objective SCIENTIFIC (not medical) proof that the eye is dynamic.
You will find the complete report on
www.myopia.org
Under:
www.myopia.org
Please remember, it is VERY DIFFICULT to deal with young children. Very seldom do they do what you ask them to do, and their parents -- the same difficulty.
Even so, Francis Young demonstrated that a "high plus" add to a minus had the effect of stopping further movement into nearsighteness.
What this suggests is that it is very important that the parent be informed of this effect, and this study makes it imperative that the parents so undertand that the plus MUST be used before the minus -- and they have that right to understand the issue on that level.
Also, the Houston study used a "low, small segment" and it is doubtful that the kids even looked through it.
Further, Francis Young requested that his name be REMOVED from that study since he was not consulted, not involved. Further, he was not supplied with reports of both reports -- a direct insult to him.
He has no idea who put his name on the Houston study.
Here is the abstract:
Best,
Otis
_______________
Authors: Kenneth H. Oakley, MD. Bend, Oregon and Francis A. Young, Ph.D. Primate Research Center Washington State University Pullman, Washington
ABSTRACT Forty-three Native American bifocal wearers grouped by yearly age levels from 9 to 15 with a mixed group of 6 to 8 year olds are matched on beginning age, sex, beginning refractive error and ending age with 104 Native American control subjects. Similarly, 226 Caucasian bifocal wearers are matched on the same criteria against 382 control subjects. Although the comparisons are made on each age group, the average annual rate of progression for the bifocal Native American subjects is -0.12 and -0.10 diopters in the right and left eyes respectively against a comparable rate of progression of -0.38 and -0.36 diopters for the control subjects These differences are significant but not as significant as those found on the Caucasian subjects of -0.02 and -0.03 diopters right and left eyes against -0.53 and -0.52 diopters for the controls. The meaning of these differences is discussed.
otisbrown@pa.net - 24 Apr 2005 04:53 GMT Correction:
Francis Young's scientific report is under:
Bifocal Control of Myopia
This suggests that a much more powerful effect could be obtained if the (at the threshold of 20/40 and 20/50) the minus lens could be deleted, and ONLY a strong plus used by and older person, say 14 and 15, who has much stronger motivation (and scientific understanding of the eye's behavior) rather than these 8 or 9 year olds -- who have scant interest in these proceedings.
In fact, when such highly-motivated junior-scientists use the plus in a very-agressive fashion, they find they can clear their vision back to standard.
See, "Teen to 20/20" on
www.myopiafree.com
for details of this effort.
Enjoy my friends,
Otis
Mike Tyner - 24 Apr 2005 05:07 GMT > You "cojecture" is that the natural eye > is NOT DYNAMIC, and you can > ASSUME you can represent > the eye as a FROZEN box camera. OK, when you decide what I think, let me know.
-MT
Philip D Izaac - 24 Apr 2005 11:00 GMT ----- Original Message ----- From: <otisbrown@pa.net> Newsgroups: sci.med.vision Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 11:01 PM Subject: Re: -23 D list of examinations and prescriptions
<.........second-opinion expressed
> by the highly qualified optometrist Steve Leung, > and described at What are his qualifications?
> Clearly I am NOT "anti-optometry". I am against the mindless > use of an over-prescribed minus lens -- at the threshold -- when > prevention can be effective. Can you provide us with your difinition of "over-prescribed minus lenses"
Roland Izaac
> Best, > > Otis otisbrown@pa.net - 24 Apr 2005 20:08 GMT To: R Izaac" <pdizaac@singnet.com.sg>
Subject: Vision clearing from -2.75 diopters by "Mike"
Re: In clearing your vision with the plus, you go through 20/40 -- on the way to 20/20.
Re: This takes strong "will-power" and good judgment, by "Mike" who did it successfully -- following a review of Francis Young's Scientific study of the dynamic nature of the fundamental eye.
___________________
Dear Roland,
It is a time-honored approach to agree the the development of a "second opinion".
This often developes because of a dissatisfaction with the "traditional" method.
Steve Leung OD, has developed an opinion that a negative refractive state of the natural eye CAN BE PREVENTED. This is obviously not a "cure" and not "therapy".
Steve Leung has at least 12 years in practice. He uses the minus lens -- same as you. And indeed, I agree that he has little choice but to follow the tradition of the last 400 years -- because the plublic will not "accept" the necessity of using a strong plus "correctly".
But Steve is strongly using the plus on his own child, who has 20/20, but a refractive state of zero. We both agree that "prevention" in this sense is very difficult -- and depends on the "wisdom" of the parents to accept the necessity of it. Not an easy task at all -- and the decision rests with the parents -- and not with Steve.
----- Original Message -----
> <.........second-opinion expressed by the highly qualified optometrist Steve Leung, and described at
> What are his qualifications? Steve is a full professional optometrist. He qualifications are the same as yours.
> > Clearly I am NOT "anti-optometry". I am against the mindless use of an over-prescribed minus lens -- at the threshold -- when prevention can be effective.
> Can you provide us with your difinition of "over-prescribed minus lenses"
>From discssions with people who are working to "clear" their vision, I found that they could pass the "Standard Snellen", by reading 1.8 cm letters at 6 meters. i.e., the pass the driver-license without glasses -- and do not require a minus lens.
When they are "measured" in a dark room with a "projected" Snellen, they are being measured for "night time" vision. This takes a -2 diopter lens to clear to 20/20 or even 20/15.
I would say that a minus lens that is not required legally -- is over prescribed.
Ultimately, Mike, who established this fact, continued with a very strong plue and cleared to 20/20 -- thus the 20/40 stage was an intermediate step.
Best,
Otis
> Roland Izaac Philip D Izaac - 25 Apr 2005 11:18 GMT > To: R Izaac" <pdizaac@singnet.com.sg> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > same > as yours. I'm sure he is. I am equaly sure you do not know what his qualifications are. You do not know what mine are and yet you say they are the same. You assume too much.
> > > Clearly I am NOT "anti-optometry". I am against the mindless > use of an over-prescribed minus lens -- at the threshold -- when [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > lens > to clear to 20/20 or even 20/15. Everybody has night myopia? Every one of them by -2.00 diopter? What causes night myopia Otis?
> I would say that a minus lens that is not required legally -- is over > prescribed. Legally required by the DMV? Since when did they set the standard for eyecare? Even the DMV would prefer drivers to have the best corrected visual acuity. According to your definition, we are overprescribing spectacle lenses 100% of the time. If the DMV decides later that min. V.A. should be 20/20 then all of a sudden very, very few are wearing overprescribed glasses.
> Ultimately, Mike, who established this fact, continued with a very > strong [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > Roland Izaac Dr. Leukoma - 25 Apr 2005 12:47 GMT The public will not accept the use of a plus lens in your manner, nor will optometrists, because the standard for proof of efficacy simply has not been met.
Time and time again on this group you are asked to state the evidence for efficacy of plus lens treatment. Time and time again you come up empty, except for some solitary individual who practices in Asia and a decades old study of bifocals on accommodative myopes. At one time, there were many more behavioral optometrists. What happened to them all?
On the contrary, real studies show quite the opposite, which is that plus lenses do not have any significant effect on the progression of myopia. Those studies can be found by searching PubMed, not here, and not on your website.
People want to be able to see, to be able to function. They have a right. There is no ethical reason to withold corrective lenses from a myope, even if it can be proven that the myopia is 100% accommodative. In that case, a bifocal can be given in conjunction with the minus lens.
DrG
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