Medical Forum / General / Vision / March 2005
Reputable Scientists say that myopia is genetic - surely it must be true?
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andrew Judd - 15 Mar 2005 07:58 GMT Dear Readers
No less an organ than the british medical Journal tells us that
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/324/7347/1195#B9
"Two well conducted and well controlled studies show that refractive errors are much more strongly correlated in monozygotic twins than in dizygotic twins - ref 9 , 10"
And helpfully allows a link to References to 9 and 10. (Ref 9 Provides more detail but 10 appears to be a similar study using MZ and DZ twins)
Ref 9 shows its a 'Classical twin study' using the 'Equal environment assumption'.
http://www.iovs.org/cgi/content/full/42/6/1232?ijkey=b10cc18d7c1f9187636c25d8f16 c93ebacbc7e2d
"Conclusions We have demonstrated that genetic effects are important in the development of refractive error, with heritability of 84% to 86% for myopia/hyperopia. The heritability of astigmatism is 50% to 65% and predominantly involves dominant genetic effects"
And here is that environment assumption confirmed in Figure 1.
"C is correlated by a factor of 1.0 for both MZ and DZ twins (the equal environment assumption)."
So it has to be proven that myopia is strongly genetic? Surely? This was all peer reviewed, right? These guys are all trained scientists, right?
But if we care to investigate that 'Equal Environment Assumption'
http://www.net4dem.org/cyrev/archive/Misc.%20Articles/IQ/IQandGenetics1.htm1.
For those who have only so much time to find out the facts i have extracted 3 sections of the page.
1."Comparing monozygotic and dizygotic twins
Another area where increasing recognition of complexity is confounding issues in IQ research is the study of twins that are raised within their biological families. Many of the conclusions concerning inheritance of intelligence come from comparisons between these monozygotic and dizygotic twins. A fundamental simplifying assumption underlying these studies is that the environment in which each member of a twin pair develops and grows up, from conception on, is essentially identical (Scan & Carter-Saitzman, 1979). The degree to which twins are considered to experience the same environments is thought to be the same for either monozygotic or dizygotic pairs. Thus, according to the argument, the difference in concordance for any trait between the two classes of twins can be ascribed to genetics. This "equal environment assumption" is based on the fact that such twins develop in the same womb and are raised together by their biological parents a t the same time in the history o f the family an d in the history of their society. This assumption did not encounter serious criticism until the early 1960's (Joseph, 19 98).
One of the major problems with this assumption is that the physically identical nature of monozygotic twins could contribute to making their environments much more similar than that of dizygotic twins (Billings et al., 1992). This consequence of genetic identity could result from the ways in which both family and the larger society treat or deal with individuals who are known to be identical and physically present as identical. In addition, the known closer bonds between monozygotic twins as compared to dizygotic twins can contribute to greater behavioral similarity. Studies designed to respond to these criticisms have yielded conflicting results. The research suffers from the same problems of defining quantitatively those factors that could be considered to influence behavioral development in a family and social setting. Furthermore, contrary to the original simplifying assumptions, the studies have revealed that there are differences in the shared environments between the two classes of twins (Joseph, 1998). In a review of these studies, Joseph claims that, in the case of studies of inheritance of schizophrenia, "the evidence suggests that the classical twin method ... is [based] on the fallacy of the equal environment assumption" (Joseph, 1998).
2.Several recent papers cast further doubt on the equal environment assumption as it relates to early stages of development. Dr. Bernie Devlin and co workers showed that conditions with in the womb may have substantial effects on the concordance of subsequent scores on IQ tests for identical twins (Devlin et al.,1997).
3."Given the examples I have provided here, Capron et al.s statement that, in such studies, "... not all environmental factors may be known..." appears a gentle understatement of the extent of the problem"
Andrew:-)
RM - 15 Mar 2005 14:35 GMT Andrew, I guess I am one of those who has "only so much time" to become involved in newsgroup discussions. Can you please just cut to the core of what your point is in this post? I doubt that you only want to say that myopia development has a genetic basis. That is well known and accepted by almost everyone (except Otis). Do I detect a note of sarcasm?
andrew Judd - 15 Mar 2005 20:46 GMT > Andrew, > I guess I am one of those who has "only so much time" to become involved in > newsgroup discussions. Can you please just cut to the core of what your > point is in this post? I doubt that you only want to say that myopia > development has a genetic basis. That is well known and accepted by almost > everyone (except Otis). Do I detect a note of sarcasm? Rm
Can you provide a reference to your belief that myopia has a genetic basis?
Thanks
Andrew
RM - 16 Mar 2005 04:17 GMT > Can you provide a reference to your belief that myopia has a genetic > basis? > > Thanks > > Andrew The genetic basis of myopia is known. What is also known is that genetics is not everything. I offer the following starting information for you. You can "Google" and "PubMed" yourself for lots more details.
1. A well known genetic basis is evident by comparing myopia incidence in persons of Asian descent versus persons of European descent. The difference is something like 70% vs. 30%. This is true regardless of "environment" since Asians living in the US or Europe still have the same high rates of myopia versus the native population and vice versa.
2. The studies of Young et al. which have identified the locations of specific genes on human chromosomes that relate to myopia development. See these two references: Young, T.L., Ronan, S.M., Drahozal, L.A., Wildenberg, S.C., Alvear, A.B., Oetting, W.S., Atwood, L.D., Wilkin, D.J., & King, R.A. (1998). Evidence that a locus for familial high myopia maps to chromosome 18p. American Journal of Human Genetics, 63, 109-119.
Young, T.L., Ronan, S.M., Alvear, A.B., Wildenberg, S.C., Oetting, W.S., Atwood, L.D., Wilkin, D.J., & King, R.A. (1998). Second locus for familial high myopia maps to chromosome 12q. American Journal of Human Genetics, 63, 1419-1424
3. Finally, there are population studies that show that myopia development correlates best with parents who have myopia, and/or siblings that have myopia. This correlation is much stronger than prolonged near-work, and other factors. See the following two web references:
http://www.optometryonline.net/news/article.cfm?ID=504 http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/myokid.htm
Finally, I will refer you to several review articles which summarize the current state of understanding of myopia development. From there you can find much more specifics if you are really interested. http://annals.edu.sg/pdf200401/V33N1p4.pdf http://www.revoptom.com/index.asp?ArticleType=SiteSpec&page=osc/apr01/lesson_0401.htm http://dels.nas.edu/ilar/jour_online/40_2/V40_2NortonAnimalModels.asp http://www.optometrists.asn.au/gui/files/ceo865276.pdf
andrew Judd - 15 Mar 2005 20:44 GMT I had not intended to be unclear about this post but wanted the reader to draw their own conclusions.
For those who understandably dont have time to read all that I wrote here is a summary.
1. Myopia is claimed to be strongly genetically inherited based on for example Classical twin studies done at a reputable london hospital which were widely aired in the media last year.
2. These 'Classical' type twin studies are claimed to be scientifically valid at resolving the issue of 'Nature versus Nurture'. Ie which is more important for myopia:
A) Our genetic nature? or
B) Our environment?
3. These Classical studies use the 'Equal Environment Assuption' to resolve the 'Nature versus Nature' argument.
4. The Equal Environment assumption has been shown to be an erroneous assumption.
I should add there is no valid data available that supports the idea that myopia is genetically related.
Andrew
Scott Seidman - 15 Mar 2005 21:56 GMT > I had not intended to be unclear about this post but wanted the reader > to draw their own conclusions. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Andrew When phrased this way, the question, at least, makes sense (less your last addition). What gets in the way is what you consider to be "our environment". Most would say the relevant variables are things like how much near work a person does, while you say it has to do with the persons relationship to their parents.
Scott
andrew Judd - 16 Mar 2005 04:43 GMT > > I had not intended to be unclear about this post but wanted the reader > > to draw their own conclusions. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Scott Scott
If anybody knows of any studies that suggest myopia is linked to genetics and which demonstrate good science then I am very interested to read them.
Similarly if there are any studies that prove myopia is caused by near work I am sure Otis would be delighted to hear from you.
Fundamentally my argument is that myopia is related to anxiety - at least one of your own quoted studies supports that view.
So even more reason for me to be confused as to why you are now wanting to support the Otis answer to myopia.
Andrew
RM - 16 Mar 2005 12:35 GMT > So even more reason for me to be confused as to why you are now > wanting to support the Otis answer to myopia. The Otis "answer" to myopia is to use plus lenses. Why people oppose it in this forum is because it has been tried before in scientific studies and proven to be ineffective.
I don't think any of us oppose the idea that a near environment has something to do with myopia development. There are studies that show this quite clearly just as they show that genetics has a role as well, an even clearer role. The question is how do you counter the environmental influence(s) to reduce myopia progression. With the exception of some experimental pharmacologic treatments, nothing has been shown to work so far.
The clinicials and vision scientists who post here are all about proof and fact. Call that "mental masturbation" if you like. I wouldn't. "Mental masturbation" to me is more like what you are doing. Coming around here pontificating about all kinds of causes of visual disorders that have no basis in science whatsoever. If seems to make you feel good to make these kind of statements which you know seem quite outrageous to the eyedocs here. I liken it to self-gratification through "mental flashing". Personally I'm not interested especially since I've taken the time to read a little into Kaplan's beliefs.
andrew Judd - 17 Mar 2005 02:46 GMT >>There are studies that show this quite clearly just as they show that genetics has a role as well, an even clearer role.
Oh really? Genetics has an even clearer role? Please give a citation and text that we can all share to check you are not making it up.
vision scientists who post here are all about proof and
> fact. Come on! Dont be coy! Lets have a name. Just a single name.
RM - 17 Mar 2005 04:51 GMT > Oh really? Genetics has an even clearer role? Please give a citation > and text that we can all share to check you are not making it up. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Come on! Dont be coy! Lets have a name. Just a single name. Andrew, your foolishness continues to amaze me. Why not look at the post that I sent you on 3/15 per your request that contains the references you are asking for!
Now go wack-off somewhere privately so we don't all have to watch you.
Rich - 17 Mar 2005 02:48 GMT My soon-to-be-published book, "Myopia for Dummies", gives the definitive answer to this question: LIFESTYLE causes myopia, not genes.
Contrary to popular belief, people in east Asia are no more genetically susceptible to short-sightedness than any other population group.
The epidemics of myopia in countries such as Singapore and Japan are due solely to changes in lifestyle, and similar levels could soon be seen in many western countries as lifestyles there continue to change.
As kids spend more time indoors, on computers or watching television, Westerners are going to become just as myopic.
Myopia is on the increase in most places, but in countries such as Singapore it has reached extraordinary levels. There, 80 per cent of 18-year-old male army recruits are myopic, up from 25 per cent just 30 years ago.
Employers such as the police are having problems finding people who meet their requirements. There is also an increasing incidence of extreme myopia, which can lead to blindness. --------------------------- --Rich
Just kidding about "Myopia for Dummies"! Actually, the above was paraphrased from a report by Dr Ian Morgan of the Visual Sciences Group, Research School of Biological Sciences, Australian National University The complete article is available on this site:
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6117
Dr Judy - 17 Mar 2005 19:14 GMT snip
> If anybody knows of any studies that suggest myopia is linked to > genetics and which demonstrate good science then I am very interested > to read them.
> Similarly if there are any studies that prove myopia is caused by near > work I am sure Otis would be delighted to hear from you. Since you don't believe the twin study that you yourself posted, (genetically identical twins have very similar amounts of myopia, non genetically identical twins are not as similar), I don't know what kind of "proof" you are looking for. A PubMed search using Myopia and Genetic as keywords yields over 750 citations.
I think most vision scientists would say that myopia is multifactorial, it depends upon a number of genetic factors, environmental factors and their interaction -- it is neither 100% due to genetics nor is it 100% due to environment.
> Fundamentally my argument is that myopia is related to anxiety - at > least one of your own quoted studies supports that view. To rephrase your question: " If anybody knows of any studies that suggest myopia is linked to anxiety and which demonstrate good science then I am very interested to read them"
Dr Judy
> So even more reason for me to be confused as to why you are now > wanting to support the Otis answer to myopia. > > Andrew andrew Judd - 18 Mar 2005 00:22 GMT
> Since you don't believe the twin study that you yourself posted, > (genetically identical twins have very similar amounts of myopia, non > genetically identical twins are not as similar), I don't know what kind of > "proof" you are looking for. A PubMed search using Myopia and Genetic as > keywords yields over 750 citations. Dear Dr Judy
I dont know how much up to speed you are on what else i have said on these twin studies.
It is simple to get facts that Identical twins have statistically greater correlation of myopia, than none identical twins.
If myopia was related to some other environmentally related factor we would expect twins who are treated similarly to have similar myopia.
Alternatively we could argue that myopia has a genetic component that may be influenced by environmental factors - this is more or less what you are suggesting.
Therefore a study that statistically examines twins must also take into account environmental factors.
The Classical Twin Study methodology makes an assumption that excludes environmentally **different** treatment of identical twins compared to none identical twins and **therefore** assumes that, in this Classical Twin Study methodology, environment is not an issue that causes distortion of results.
Other scientists have argued that this is a flawed assumption and have they have got statistically meaningful results to support that argument. Identical twins are commonly observed to be dressed the same, confused for one another by care givers etc.
Further I have found that St Thomases hospital (Hammond et al) Classical Twin Study designers ask all of their twin sets if they were differently treated. If the answer is yes then they are not included in the study. This clearly skews results in favour of genetics if environment (being treated differently) is then later not considered a factor in the results.
I can appreciate that the nature versus nurture argument creates strong views.
But for example no study on intelligence in races for example would ever be taken seriously with this kind of Classical twin study methodology.
Andrew
andrew Judd - 15 Mar 2005 23:31 GMT Sorry my link for the equal environment assumption had some extra characters added
http://www.net4dem.org/cyrev/archive/Misc.%20Articles/IQ/IQandGenetics1.htm
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