Medical Forum / General / Vision / February 2005
Discussion about clearing eye-length and pseudo myopia
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otisbrown@pa.net - 09 Feb 2005 03:43 GMT Dear Friends,
Mike (on his own) determined to quit the minus lens cold-turkey at Easter. (His decision -- not mine.) He researched "Bates" and many other issues. After contacting me, I suggested that he read the commentary by Jon -- and review his decision to quit cold-turkey. I suggested that he read his own eye chart. I also suggested that he have a "review" with an OD -- which he did. His vision is currently 20/30. He was following your discussion on "pseudo-myopia" and I guess he has cleared most of it away.
This is only for your reading pleasure -- so enjoy -- and think for yourself. Also read the site:
www.chinamyopia.org
for the "second opinion".
Best,
Otis Engineer
_______
Mike: Two types of myopia (and thoughts about it).
Mike> There are two types of myopia. One in which the lens goes into spasms which Jon defeated and another, an elongation of the eyeball which I must defeat.
Otis> My opinion is slightly different. I would suggest that when you first start seeing "blur" on the eye chart (say 20/60), then that is "accommodation myopia". When you start wearing a strong minus lens, the "accommodation myopia" is converted into eye-length myopia. In any event, the method of prevention is the same -- to get you "near" environment as far from your face as possible -- for the long-term. There are obviously many opinions on this subject.
Mike> I have read information on what the extra-ocular muscles role in vision.
Otis> This concept has a long history, were "blame" was placed on either the extra-ocular muscles or the accommodation system.
Mike> Some people thought that they played the role of focusing light which we now know is the lenses job.
Otis> It is possible that both play a role, where "accommodation" could be 80 percent the "lens" and 20 percent the extra-ocular muscles.
Mike> But I think that they did have a point. If you look at the anatomy of an eye you will see four extra-ocular muscles attached to the eye. I think that they control the shape of the eye itself.
Otis> Possible -- but no good way to resolve this question. There are two additional muscles -- for rotation of the eye.
Mike> If all four contracted at once then the eye would be pushed on the back of the eye socket and force the eye to get shorter on the x axis.
Otis> No objection. I consider that "accommodation" is what the complete eye must do to maintain sharp focus on the retina. Thus if it must change BOTH lens shape AND length together the result is still a clear image on your retina. (Within the stop-to-stop travel of the said accommodation system.)
Mike> If they were all relaxed then the only force acting on the eye itself is gravity and that would force the eye to get longer on the x axis.
Otis> This concept had some currency many years ago.
Mike> If you don't quite get what I am talking about I will be happy to explain it again because I think I am onto something. I may be the first person to ever reverse elongation of the eye.
Otis> You are the SECOND young person to "push" very hard with that plus lens. The first person was Jon. You are part of an exclusive "club" in this effort. That should tell you how difficult this preventive work really is. However, Dr. Colgate did it successfully -- so you should follow his lead.
Mike> I thought of this because I noticed that when my vision was the best my extra-ocular muscles were VERY tense. And when I read a something without my plus my extra-ocular muscles were very loose. I can tell the tension because of how hard it is to move my eye up and down and side to side. I have begun to do eye exercises and my vision is getting better.
Otis> While I do "push" the plus concept, I have no objection at all to other methods. Indeed David De Angles strongly supported the "exercise" part of prevention. This is something you must work out for yourself
Mike> I am NOT saying that the plus is obsolete and that eye exercises will get you better vision but simply stating my theory on how eyes get longer on the x axis and how to reverse it.
Otis> The analysis of the eye as you describe it was started by Johann Kepler in about 1610 or so. He did an excellent optical concept -- and it remains a good "conceptual" approach. But there are some "problems" with the concept, and while I respect the "model", and will use it for many discussions about the eye -- it does fail when you test the concept as representing the dynamic behavior of the natural or fundamental eye.
Otis> And indeed THAT takes some "explaining". But as long as you understand that the plus-for-prevention is the second opinion, and always exceed the 20/40 line -- then you are doing the "right thing".
Otis> This issue is highly "personal", in that only you can make the type of decision and take the actions that you judge are necessary.
Otis> In any event, I was very pleased when you reported 20/50 to 20/70 (when we first talked) even though you said you had a -2.75 diopter lens. Fighting your way out it is indeed difficult. I am happy that you stuck with it -- and that Jon helped you with his own experience -- and are now at 20/30.
Best,
Otis
Thanks
Mike
A Lieberman - 09 Feb 2005 04:24 GMT > Dear Friends, > > Mike (on his own) determined to quit the minus lens > cold-turkey at Easter. (His decision -- not mine.) > He researched "Bates" and many other issues. > After contacting me, I suggested that he Oh no!!!! another made up subject from Otis.
Mike, Jon, next thing you know, Mickey Mouse will go the plus method....
First time readers, disregard Otis. He makes up his subjects, and probably makes up his stories.
Allen
otisbrown@pa.net - 09 Feb 2005 04:36 GMT Allen,
I think Rishi is more original and clever that you. At least he as a more open mind on the subject.
You do sound like a dyed in the wool optometrist.
At lease there is a growing field of optometrist who promote your "right-of-choice" on the threshold.
That is a very important "first step" in preventing the development of "pseudo-myopia", which eventually "morphs" into eye-length myopia.
Best,
Otis
Jan - 09 Feb 2005 08:24 GMT > That is a very important "first step" in preventing > the development of "pseudo-myopia"
> Best, > > Otis At last you are seeing some light.
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
In conclusion, I think that the "Otis therapy" should be destroyed
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
Rishi Giovanni Gatti - 09 Feb 2005 14:40 GMT It's the idiot who is in you that is still blind.
> At last you are seeing some light. otisbrown@pa.net - 10 Feb 2005 21:01 GMT Dear Jan,
Subject: Actually is must be the person "doing the work" who "sees the light" or passes the required line on the eye-chart.
This is from "RM" who is not othewise identified.
Probably another "scammer" -- since he refuses to identify himself. Perhaps a "Pseudo-OD".
RM > What we can all figure out Otis, it that once again someone is asking you to prove your claims. But you cannot!
Otis> It is probably more important that a wise student-of-science who is aware of your desire to "...destroy the concept of prevention" -- do it correctly under his own control. Only in that manner will he believe that he cleared his distant vision from -2.75 and -2.50 diopters to normal (pass all legal visual acuity requirements). But by YOUR standards his -2.75 diopters myopia was "pseudo". It is strange that in the 3 years he received increasingly strong minus lenses the OD who "prescribed" these minus lenses never mentioned that he had "preventable" myopia.
Of course RM will ignore all the people who work their way out of "incipient" nearsighedness by claiming that ALL who do it -- were not nearsighed. What a cop-out.
No, they all had "pseudo" myopia -- which, after Mike gets out of it -- he proves he "had".
No, "proof" is not possible for "RM". But he does not care about "Mike's" long-term clarity of distant vision -- but Mike does.
The strongest proof you can have is when you make your own measurements. If you wish to lose weight, you get on the scales and confirm your weight. When you wish to clear your distant vision you read your eye chart and confirm your refarctive status with your own trial-lens kit. That way YOU BELIEVE THE RESULTS.
Best,
Otis
____________
Introduction
Hello,
My name is Mike and I am currently nearsighted. Here is my story of my experience with becoming nearsighted, the minus lens, and the plus lens. I will start from the beginning.
At about age five I earned the nickname, "Eagle Eyes," from my family. I now know that my retina is cabable of 20/8 vision. As my mother and sisters would constantly drop their earings on the floor, It was my job to find them. I could see an earing from twenty-five to thirty feet away. As time went on my vision became more and more of an identity for me. That is why when I developed myopia at age nine or ten, I ,as with the rest of my family, was shocked. So losing my vision was like losing who I was as a person. I know now that I was more then my vision, but at age ten I didn't.
The Minus Lens
I do not know what my vision was when I first recieved glasses but my best estimate would be -1.5 diopters.
I conformed to glasses. I wore them all day long and liked it. It made me feel intellectual. Taking a step back and looking at that situation I now realize that I wanted no part in myopia but only frames on my face. I wish that instead I had reading glasses because I would probably have 20/8 vision with the naked eye and would have gotten the frames that I disired.
But it didn't go that way. Instead I got into progressive myopia. My prescription went down and down until I got to -2.75 diopters. That was the worst my myopia had ever been.
The idea of vision improvement came into my head with an advertisement on television. It stated that if your eyes always have help seeing objects in the distance that they would only become weaker.
It made perfect sense.
I did not order the product but that was the day in which I took off my minus.
The Quest for Vision Improvement
The Bates Method
I saw the advertisement on Easter vacation. I started an internet search to find out how to improve my vision. The Bate's method is what I found. I tried that and I quit because it didn't make sense. It stated that by strengthening your extra-ocular muscles you would see vision improvement. It didn't make sense because people with 20/20 vision don't do eye exersizes.
Note: Currently Mike passes all legal visual tests required of him. He reports visual acuity of 20/30. If he had a trial-lens kit he could provide his refractive status.
Neil Brooks - 10 Feb 2005 21:07 GMT This posting is an automatic reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread that is receiving comments from a person named "Otis", "Otis Brown", "otisbrown@pa.net" or "Otis, Engineer".
Otis is not an expert in any field of vision. His medical and eyecare training is nil. He is a proponent of a myopia prevention technique that is unproven.
In addition, Otis continually misquotes people in his posts. He drops the names of doctors whom he falsely claims to be associated with. He has been caught in out-and-out lies. He has given people incorrect medical advise. Sadly, his behavior suggests he may have psychological problems that compel him to argue against people just for the sake of causing an argument.
Otis is what is known in internet newsgroup lingo as a "troll". Do not reply to his postings-- it just takes up bandwidth and storage space that should be reserved for meaningful topics. It also just fulfils his sick psychological needs.
No one means to suppress the honest opinions of others. This message is only meant to forewarn anyone who might misconstrue Otis as a trained eyecare expert.
For anyone who is interested in understanding the current state of scientific/medical research on myopia prevention, I offer the following link: http://annals.edu.sg/pdf200401/V33N1p4.pdf. If you have other topics you wish to discuss, there are experts here who will usually help you. Don't waste your time with Otis.
Please see the weekly posting "welcome to sci.med.vision" which usually appears on Mondays, for information on how to filter out Otis' posts so that you may be able to participate in worthwhile discussions in this forum.
Jan - 10 Feb 2005 21:14 GMT > Dear Jan, > > Subject: Actually is must be the person "doing the work" > who "sees the light" or passes the required > line on the eye-chart. Major snip .........
The above is a response of you (Otis) on mine below and it is clear to me that I should regret mine, therefore I have to withdraw mine .
At last you are seeing some light.
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
In conclusion, I think that the "Otis therapy" should be destroyed
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
RM - 09 Feb 2005 14:48 GMT > At lease there is a growing field of optometrist > who promote your "right-of-choice" on the > threshold. Replace the word "growing" with "dying" Otis.
Just quit your "discussions" and PROVE it. No one will believe you since the evidence is against you unless you PROVE IT with real scientific studies.
An until then---
This posting is an automatic reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread that is receiving comments from a person named "Otis", "Otis Brown", "otisbrown@pa.net" or "Otis, Engineer".
Otis is not an expert in any field of vision. His medical and eyecare training is nil. He is a proponent of a myopia prevention technique that is unproven.
In addition, Otis continually misquotes people in his posts. He drops the names of doctors whom he falsely claims to be associated with. He has been caught in out-and-out lies. He has given people incorrect medical advise. Sadly, his behavior suggests he may have psychological problems that compel him to argue against people just for the sake of causing an argument.
Otis is what is known in internet newsgroup lingo as a "troll". Do not reply to his postings-- it just takes up bandwidth and storage space that should be reserved for meaningful topics. It also just fulfils his sick psychological needs.
No one means to suppress the honest opinions of others. This message is only meant to forewarn anyone who might misconstrue Otis as a trained eyecare expert.
For anyone who is interested in understanding the current state of scientific/medical research on myopia prevention, I offer the following link: http://annals.edu.sg/pdf200401/V33N1p4.pdf. If you have other topics you wish to discuss, there are experts here who will usually help you. Don't waste your time with Otis.
Please see the weekly posting "welcome to sci.med.vision" which usually appears on Mondays, for information on how to filter out Otis' posts so that you may be able to participate in worthwhile discussions in this forum.
RM - 09 Feb 2005 14:46 GMT This posting is an automatic reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread that is receiving comments from a person named "Otis", "Otis Brown", "otisbrown@pa.net" or "Otis, Engineer".
Otis is not an expert in any field of vision. His medical and eyecare training is nil. He is a proponent of a myopia prevention technique that is unproven.
In addition, Otis continually misquotes people in his posts. He drops the names of doctors whom he falsely claims to be associated with. He has been caught in out-and-out lies. He has given people incorrect medical advise. Sadly, his behavior suggests he may have psychological problems that compel him to argue against people just for the sake of causing an argument.
Otis is what is known in internet newsgroup lingo as a "troll". Do not reply to his postings-- it just takes up bandwidth and storage space that should be reserved for meaningful topics. It also just fulfils his sick psychological needs.
No one means to suppress the honest opinions of others. This message is only meant to forewarn anyone who might misconstrue Otis as a trained eyecare expert.
For anyone who is interested in understanding the current state of scientific/medical research on myopia prevention, I offer the following link: http://annals.edu.sg/pdf200401/V33N1p4.pdf. If you have other topics you wish to discuss, there are experts here who will usually help you. Don't waste your time with Otis.
Please see the weekly posting "welcome to sci.med.vision" which usually appears on Mondays, for information on how to filter out Otis' posts so that you may be able to participate in worthwhile discussions in this forum.
> Dear Friends, > [quoted text clipped - 141 lines] > > Mike
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