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Medical Forum / General / Vision / February 2005

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Discussion about clearing eye-length and pseudo myopia

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otisbrown@pa.net - 09 Feb 2005 03:43 GMT
Dear Friends,

Mike (on his own) determined to quit the minus lens
cold-turkey at Easter.  (His decision -- not mine.)
He researched "Bates" and many other issues.
After contacting me, I suggested that he
read the commentary by Jon -- and review his
decision to quit cold-turkey.  I suggested
that he read his own eye chart.  I also
suggested that he have a "review" with an
OD -- which he did.  His vision is currently
20/30.  He was following your discussion on
"pseudo-myopia" and I guess he has cleared
most of it away.

This is only for your reading pleasure -- so
enjoy -- and think for yourself.  Also read
the site:

www.chinamyopia.org

for the "second opinion".

Best,

Otis
Engineer

_______

Mike:  Two types of myopia (and thoughts about it).

Mike> There are two types of myopia.  One in which the lens goes
     into spasms which Jon defeated and another, an elongation of
     the eyeball which I must defeat.

Otis> My opinion is slightly different.  I would suggest that when
     you first start seeing "blur" on the eye chart (say 20/60),
     then that is "accommodation myopia".  When you start wearing
     a strong minus lens, the "accommodation myopia" is converted
     into eye-length myopia.  In any event, the method of
     prevention is the same -- to get you "near" environment as
     far from your face as possible -- for the long-term.  There
     are obviously many opinions on this subject.

Mike> I have read information on what the extra-ocular muscles
     role in vision.

Otis> This concept has a long history, were "blame" was placed on
     either the extra-ocular muscles or the accommodation system.

Mike> Some people thought that they played the role of focusing
     light which we now know is the lenses job.

Otis> It is possible that both play a role, where "accommodation"
     could be 80 percent the "lens" and 20 percent the
     extra-ocular muscles.

Mike> But I think that they did have a point.  If you look at the
     anatomy of an eye you will see four extra-ocular muscles
     attached to the eye.  I think that they control the shape of
     the eye itself.

Otis> Possible -- but no good way to resolve this question.
     There are two additional muscles -- for rotation of the
     eye.

Mike> If all four contracted at once then the eye would be pushed
     on the back of the eye socket and force the eye to get
     shorter on the x axis.

Otis> No objection.  I consider that "accommodation" is what the
     complete eye must do to maintain sharp focus on the retina.
     Thus if it must change BOTH lens shape AND length together
     the result is still a clear image on your retina.
     (Within the stop-to-stop travel of the said accommodation
     system.)

Mike> If they were all relaxed then the only force acting on the
     eye itself is gravity and that would force the eye to get
     longer on the x axis.

Otis> This concept had some currency many years ago.

Mike> If you don't quite get what I am talking about I will be
     happy to explain it again because I think I am onto
     something.  I may be the first person to ever reverse
     elongation of the eye.

Otis> You are the SECOND young person to "push" very hard with
     that plus lens.  The first person was Jon.  You are part of
     an exclusive "club" in this effort.  That should tell you
     how difficult this preventive work really is.
     However, Dr. Colgate did it successfully -- so you
     should follow his lead.

Mike> I thought of this because I noticed that when my vision was
     the best my extra-ocular muscles were VERY tense.  And when
     I read a something without my plus my extra-ocular muscles
     were very loose.    I can tell the tension because of how hard
     it is to move my eye up and down and side to side.  I have
     begun to do eye exercises and my vision is getting better.

Otis> While I do "push" the plus concept, I have no objection at
     all to other methods.  Indeed David De Angles strongly
     supported the "exercise" part of prevention.  This is
     something you must work out for yourself

Mike> I am NOT saying that the plus is obsolete and that eye
     exercises will get you better vision but simply stating my
     theory on how eyes get longer on the x axis and how to
     reverse it.

Otis> The analysis of the eye as you describe it was started by
     Johann Kepler in about 1610 or so.  He did an excellent
     optical concept -- and it remains a good "conceptual"
     approach.  But there are some "problems" with the concept,
     and while I respect the "model", and will use it for many
     discussions about the eye -- it does fail when you test the
     concept as representing the dynamic behavior of the
     natural or fundamental eye.

Otis> And indeed THAT takes some "explaining".  But as long as you
     understand that the plus-for-prevention is the second
     opinion, and always exceed the 20/40 line -- then you are
     doing the "right thing".

Otis> This issue is highly "personal", in that only you can make
     the type of decision and take the actions that you judge are
     necessary.

Otis> In any event, I was very pleased when you reported 20/50 to
     20/70 (when we first talked) even though you said you had a
     -2.75 diopter lens.  Fighting your way out it is indeed
     difficult.  I am happy that you stuck with it -- and that
     Jon helped you with his own experience -- and are
     now at 20/30.

Best,

Otis

Thanks

Mike
A Lieberman - 09 Feb 2005 04:24 GMT
> Dear Friends,
>
> Mike (on his own) determined to quit the minus lens
> cold-turkey at Easter.  (His decision -- not mine.)
> He researched "Bates" and many other issues.
> After contacting me, I suggested that he

Oh no!!!! another made up subject from Otis.  

Mike, Jon, next thing you know, Mickey Mouse will go the plus method....

First time readers, disregard Otis.  He makes up his subjects, and probably
makes up his stories.

Allen
otisbrown@pa.net - 09 Feb 2005 04:36 GMT
Allen,

I think Rishi is more original and clever that
you.  At least he as a more open mind
on the subject.

You do sound like a dyed in the wool optometrist.

At lease there is a growing field of optometrist
who promote your "right-of-choice" on the
threshold.

That is a very important "first step" in preventing
the development of "pseudo-myopia", which
eventually "morphs" into eye-length myopia.

Best,

Otis
Jan - 09 Feb 2005 08:24 GMT
> That is a very important "first step" in preventing
> the development of "pseudo-myopia"

> Best,
>
> Otis

At last you are seeing some light.

Signature

Free to  Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

In conclusion, I think that the "Otis therapy" should be destroyed

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

Rishi Giovanni Gatti - 09 Feb 2005 14:40 GMT
It's the idiot who is in you that is still blind.

> At last you are seeing some light.
otisbrown@pa.net - 10 Feb 2005 21:01 GMT
Dear Jan,

Subject:  Actually is must be the person "doing the work"
            who "sees the light" or passes the required
            line on the eye-chart.

This is from "RM" who is not othewise identified.

Probably another "scammer" -- since he refuses to identify
himself.  Perhaps a "Pseudo-OD".

RM > What we can all figure out Otis, it that once again someone
    is asking you to prove your claims.  But you cannot!

Otis> It is probably more important that a wise student-of-science
     who is aware of your desire to "...destroy the concept
     of prevention" -- do it correctly under his own control.
     Only in that manner will he believe that he cleared
     his distant vision from -2.75 and -2.50 diopters
     to normal (pass all legal visual acuity requirements).
     But by YOUR standards his -2.75 diopters myopia
     was "pseudo".  It is strange that in the 3 years
     he received increasingly strong minus lenses the
     OD who "prescribed" these minus lenses never
     mentioned that he had "preventable" myopia.

    Of course RM will ignore all the people who work their way
out of "incipient" nearsighedness by claiming that ALL who do it
-- were not nearsighed.  What a cop-out.

    No, they all had "pseudo" myopia -- which, after Mike gets
out of it -- he proves he "had".

    No, "proof" is not possible for "RM".  But he does not care
about "Mike's" long-term clarity of distant vision -- but Mike
does.

    The strongest proof you can have is when you make your own
measurements.  If you wish to lose weight, you get
on the scales and confirm your weight.    When you wish
to clear your distant vision you read your eye chart
and confirm your refarctive status with your own trial-lens
kit.  That way YOU BELIEVE THE RESULTS.

    Best,

    Otis

____________

    Introduction

    Hello,

    My name is Mike and I am currently nearsighted.  Here is my
story of my experience with becoming nearsighted, the minus lens,
and the plus lens.  I will start from the beginning.

    At about age five I earned the nickname, "Eagle Eyes," from
my family.  I now know that my retina is cabable of 20/8 vision.
As my mother and sisters would constantly drop their earings on
the floor, It was my job to find them.    I could see an earing from
twenty-five to thirty feet away.  As time went on my vision became
more and more of an identity for me.  That is why when I developed
myopia at age nine or ten, I ,as with the rest of my family, was
shocked.  So losing my vision was like losing who I was as a
person.  I know now that I was more then my vision, but at age ten
I didn't.

    The Minus Lens

    I do not know what my vision was when I first recieved
glasses but my best estimate would be -1.5 diopters.

    I conformed to glasses.  I wore them all day long and liked
it.  It made me feel intellectual.  Taking a step back and looking
at that situation I now realize that I wanted no part in myopia
but only frames on my face.  I wish that instead I had reading
glasses because I would probably have 20/8 vision with the naked
eye and would have gotten the frames that I disired.

    But it didn't go that way.  Instead I got into progressive
myopia.  My prescription went down and down until I got to -2.75
diopters.  That was the worst my myopia had ever been.

    The idea of vision improvement came into my head with an
advertisement on television.  It stated that if your eyes always
have help seeing objects in the distance that they would only
become weaker.

It made perfect sense.

I did not order the
product but that was the day in which I took off my minus.

    The Quest for Vision Improvement

    The Bates Method

    I saw the advertisement on Easter vacation.  I started an
internet search to find out how to improve my vision.  The Bate's
method is what I found.  I tried that and I quit because it didn't
make sense.  It stated that by strengthening your extra-ocular
muscles you would see vision improvement.  It didn't make sense
because people with 20/20 vision don't do eye exersizes.

Note:  Currently Mike passes all legal visual tests
required of him.  He reports visual acuity of 20/30.
If he had a trial-lens kit he could provide
his refractive status.
Neil Brooks - 10 Feb 2005 21:07 GMT
This posting is an automatic reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread
that is receiving comments from a person named "Otis", "Otis Brown",
"otisbrown@pa.net" or "Otis, Engineer".

Otis is not an expert in any field of vision. His medical and eyecare
training is nil.  He is a proponent of a myopia prevention technique that is
unproven.

In addition, Otis continually misquotes people in his posts. He drops the
names of doctors whom he falsely claims to be associated with.  He has been
caught in out-and-out lies. He has given people incorrect medical advise.
Sadly, his behavior suggests he may have psychological problems that compel
him to argue against people just for the sake of causing an argument.

Otis is what is known in internet newsgroup lingo as a "troll".  Do not
reply to his postings-- it just takes up bandwidth and storage space that
should be reserved for meaningful topics.  It also just fulfils his sick
psychological needs.

No one means to suppress the honest opinions of others.  This message is
only meant to forewarn anyone who might misconstrue Otis as a trained
eyecare expert.

For anyone who is interested in understanding the current state of
scientific/medical research on myopia prevention, I offer the following
link: http://annals.edu.sg/pdf200401/V33N1p4.pdf.  If you have other topics
you wish to discuss, there are experts here who will usually help you.
Don't waste your time with Otis.

Please see the weekly posting "welcome to sci.med.vision" which usually
appears on Mondays, for information on how to filter out Otis' posts so that
you may be able to participate in worthwhile discussions in this forum.
Jan - 10 Feb 2005 21:14 GMT
> Dear Jan,
>
> Subject:  Actually is must be the person "doing the work"
>             who "sees the light" or passes the required
>             line on the eye-chart.

Major snip .........

The above is a response of you (Otis) on mine below and it is clear to me
that I should regret mine, therefore  I have to withdraw mine .

At last you are seeing some light.

Signature

Free to  Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

In conclusion, I think that the "Otis therapy" should be destroyed

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

RM - 09 Feb 2005 14:48 GMT
> At lease there is a growing field of optometrist
> who promote your "right-of-choice" on the
> threshold.

Replace the word "growing" with "dying" Otis.

Just quit your "discussions" and PROVE it.  No one will believe you since
the evidence is against you unless you PROVE IT with real scientific
studies.

An until then---

This posting is an automatic reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread
that is receiving comments from a person named "Otis", "Otis Brown",
"otisbrown@pa.net" or "Otis, Engineer".

Otis is not an expert in any field of vision. His medical and eyecare
training is nil.  He is a proponent of a myopia prevention technique that is
unproven.

In addition, Otis continually misquotes people in his posts. He drops the
names of doctors whom he falsely claims to be associated with.  He has been
caught in out-and-out lies. He has given people incorrect medical advise.
Sadly, his behavior suggests he may have psychological problems that compel
him to argue against people just for the sake of causing an argument.

Otis is what is known in internet newsgroup lingo as a "troll".  Do not
reply to his postings-- it just takes up bandwidth and storage space that
should be reserved for meaningful topics.  It also just fulfils his sick
psychological needs.

No one means to suppress the honest opinions of others.  This message is
only meant to forewarn anyone who might misconstrue Otis as a trained
eyecare expert.

For anyone who is interested in understanding the current state of
scientific/medical research on myopia prevention, I offer the following
link: http://annals.edu.sg/pdf200401/V33N1p4.pdf.  If you have other topics
you wish to discuss, there are experts here who will usually help you.
Don't waste your time with Otis.

Please see the weekly posting "welcome to sci.med.vision" which usually
appears on Mondays, for information on how to filter out Otis' posts so that
you may be able to participate in worthwhile discussions in this forum.
RM - 09 Feb 2005 14:46 GMT
This posting is an automatic reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread
that is receiving comments from a person named "Otis", "Otis Brown",
"otisbrown@pa.net" or "Otis, Engineer".

Otis is not an expert in any field of vision. His medical and eyecare
training is nil.  He is a proponent of a myopia prevention technique that is
unproven.

In addition, Otis continually misquotes people in his posts. He drops the
names of doctors whom he falsely claims to be associated with.  He has been
caught in out-and-out lies. He has given people incorrect medical advise.
Sadly, his behavior suggests he may have psychological problems that compel
him to argue against people just for the sake of causing an argument.

Otis is what is known in internet newsgroup lingo as a "troll".  Do not
reply to his postings-- it just takes up bandwidth and storage space that
should be reserved for meaningful topics.  It also just fulfils his sick
psychological needs.

No one means to suppress the honest opinions of others.  This message is
only meant to forewarn anyone who might misconstrue Otis as a trained
eyecare expert.

For anyone who is interested in understanding the current state of
scientific/medical research on myopia prevention, I offer the following
link: http://annals.edu.sg/pdf200401/V33N1p4.pdf.  If you have other topics
you wish to discuss, there are experts here who will usually help you.
Don't waste your time with Otis.

Please see the weekly posting "welcome to sci.med.vision" which usually
appears on Mondays, for information on how to filter out Otis' posts so that
you may be able to participate in worthwhile discussions in this forum.

> Dear Friends,
>
[quoted text clipped - 141 lines]
>
> Mike
 
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