Medical Forum / General / Vision / February 2005
Very Odd Vision Disturbance
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Jim M - 02 Feb 2005 05:12 GMT Hi
I'm having a problem with, I think, my vision and I was hoping someone could help. It's difficult to explain, but here's what the issue is:
Sometimes when I'm looking at something within a certain distance (I would guess about 5 feet away at a minimum and a maximum of about 10-15 feet), I see things oddly. It seems like I'm viewing something from a farther distance than I actually am. For example, I will be sitting at my desk looking at the wall (a couple of feet away). All of a sudden, it feels like I'm looking at the wall from a distance of about 10 feet away. If I blink or look away, it goes away. And this only happens to things that are sortof close to me. It won't happen if I'm looking down the street, or if I'm looking at my hand.
Like I said, this is very odd. I had this when I was a little kid--it used to accompany high fevers, but now it's back (after about a 25 year hiatus). I've been to my regular doctor and I've been to an eye doctor to have my eyes examined. I explained the problem to both doctors and neither has ever heard of anything like this. When I was younger I underwent a battery of tests (the only one I can remember is the CAT scan) and they could find nothing wrong with me. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this? I just went to get a CAT scan yesterday and the nurse was asking about my symptoms. She suggested a depth perception problem. Could this be it?
If you would like more information, please let me know. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Jim
g.gatti@agora.it - 02 Feb 2005 12:01 GMT Start to practice the methods of the normal eye, discovered by Bates in the Twenties.
You will see great suprise.
Discard what the doctors tell you, it is all useless crap.
For more information on the true cure of imperfect sight, see website http://TheCentralFixation.com
Jim M - 02 Feb 2005 18:21 GMT Anyone else?
drfrank21@hotmail.com - 02 Feb 2005 18:42 GMT > Anyone else? Jim, these types of visual perceptual problems are very difficult, if not impossible, to diagnose (much less treat). It could be related to a depth perception deficiency but that should be easily shown with the various tests we have. So I don't think there are any easy answers that would explain your vision disturbances.
frank
Loren Amelang - 02 Feb 2005 19:06 GMT >Sometimes when I'm looking at something within a certain distance (I >would guess about 5 feet away at a minimum and a maximum of about 10-15 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >it feels like I'm looking at the wall from a distance of about 10 feet >away. If I blink or look away, it goes away. My understanding of what you wrote is that the image on your retina is not changing, but your interpretation of it is. And that if you "refresh" the retinal image by blinking or redirecting your gaze, the effect is lost and the fresh interpretation is "normal". True?
Could you perhaps explain the effect as "you leaving your body" rather than your physical vision changing?
Does anything change in your peripheral vision between the two states? Does attending to peripheral areas (without blinking or redirecting) change the effect? What happens if you move your head slightly (an inch is plenty) straight toward or away from the visual target?
Does your emotional state or blood sugar level affect this phenomenon? Does it only happen when you are alone? Can it happen in full sun, or at night, or while you are watching a movie or TV? Do you wear lenses, or have a history of wearing them?
I don't find this unusual or worrying at all - I've known several people who routinely "leave their bodies" and translate their visual perception to their psychic location. It is certainly fascinating to explore!
Loren
g.gatti@agora.it - 02 Feb 2005 19:32 GMT Now let's see what happens to this intelligent lady.
Welcome to the sci.med.vision superforum, where people, except me and poor Otis the old man, are serious people and prefer to destroy their vision instead of curing it by the only thing that works, that is REST.
Dan Abel - 02 Feb 2005 23:11 GMT > >Sometimes when I'm looking at something within a certain distance (I > >would guess about 5 feet away at a minimum and a maximum of about 10-15 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "refresh" the retinal image by blinking or redirecting your gaze, the > effect is lost and the fresh interpretation is "normal". True? Your brain figures out how far away something is by its size. If it looks tiny, it must be far away.
This same thing used to happen to me when I was a kid. It was always at night when I was in bed with the light off and my glasses off. I would be looking at something, like the doorframe, and all of a sudden it would get about a third the size, which made me think that it moved away. Since I was in bed, I didn't really care and never told anyone. I was very myopic and wore thick glasses every waking moment. I didn't know at the time, but those glasses make everything much smaller. Since I couldn't see a thing without glasses, I couldn't really tell that things got smaller when I put the glasses on. They just got sharper so I could see them. My theory is that my brain got confused when it was so dark, and it would snap into "glasses" mode, making everything much smaller. I haven't experienced this in decades.
 Signature Dan Abel Sonoma State University AIS dabel@sonic.net
Loren Amelang - 04 Feb 2005 07:43 GMT >Your brain figures out how far away something is by its size. If it looks >tiny, it must be far away. Well, perhaps "normal" brains might do this. Mine certainly doesn't.
>This same thing used to happen to me when I was a kid. It was always at >night when I was in bed with the light off and my glasses off. I would be [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >snap into "glasses" mode, making everything much smaller. I haven't >experienced this in decades. I'd say when the object appeared to get smaller, it was becasue your brain switched _out_ of "glasses mode". With your lenses on, it had to mentally magnify your retinal images to make them fit the space you felt around you. Take the lenses off, and this compensation was no longer needed. But we were taught the world didn't just change size (except in fairy tales) so it was only in unusual circumstances that you became conscious of the change happening.
One of my responses to wearing negative lenses through most of my childhood was to learn to disconnect the perceived size of an object from its distance. I stopped directly experiencing the change in perceived size as I moved toward and away from things. I learned to rely only on perspective and relative motion to judge distance. The experience of moving toward an object was like "dollying" a camera toward it while "zooming" the lens wider - leaving the object the same visual size. (Or in another way of thinking, part of me left my body and stayed back away from the object while the other part approached it.)
Of course I knew objects should appear larger as they got closer, and if you had asked me I would have said they did, but I didn't experience it directly. After many years without lenses, I'm finally beginning to learn to re-connect the link between size and distance. When I remember to mentally switch it on (sort-of like learning to move a long forgotten muscle) the difference in how the world appears to work is shocking.
I remember disconnecting the link when I was maybe nine years old, as a way of adapting to lenses that were otherwise far too painful to wear. I keep intending to find time to study how the optometric profession thinks adaptation is supposed to work. Apparently most people can tolerate the size changes their lenses impose, with only an occasional artifact like Dan describes.
But as I mentioned, if you had asked me earlier, I would have said I saw objects get bigger as I got nearer. I wonder how many other lens-adapted people see such size changes mentally but not in the direct, vivid, visual way I'm re-learning to see them...
Loren
g.gatti@agora.it - 04 Feb 2005 15:57 GMT > But as I mentioned, if you had asked me earlier, I would have said I > saw objects get bigger as I got nearer. I wonder how many other > lens-adapted people see such size changes mentally but not in the > direct, vivid, visual way I'm re-learning to see them... I thought the lady was intelligent, but since she uses such terms as "re-learning to see" I understand she is not.
Nan Eklund - 02 Feb 2005 20:57 GMT Jim, I'm 76 and have had very dry eyes since college days. First glasses then and was told I had "scratches" on the cornea. OK.....no real problems until the last few years when vision started getting blurry and I needed lots of doses of Liquigel, etc.
Point is - only recently has an eye doctor given me a decent explanation (no cure, just a title for it) which is map-dot-fingerprint. A corneal dystrophy. And the point is - it may take you time to find out what's going on. Don't give up and keep bugging eye doctors until someone takes the time to tell you.
Nan, from asd.
Simon Dean - 02 Feb 2005 22:51 GMT > Sometimes when I'm looking at something within a certain distance (I > would guess about 5 feet away at a minimum and a maximum of about 10-15 > feet), I see things oddly. It seems like I'm viewing something from a > farther distance than I actually am. I'd like to hear the outcome of this, and offer my experiences too.
Im not sure if they're exactly the same, but I can be there, not really concentrating, staring at something, maybe the TV, when Im tired, and it can seem that things appear as if they are falling away from me and getting further away.
Of course, that's not happening, but its a bizarre thing.
Anything in that sound familiar?
Cya Simon
Andrew Chew - 05 Feb 2005 10:05 GMT > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jim Do you sufffer from any refractive errors?
I used to get this a lot when I was in my teens - very weird sensation I agree. I attribute it to the eye or brain trying to adapt to a change in lifestyle, ie if you suddenly have to do a lot of close work compared to previously...
Dr. Leukoma - 05 Feb 2005 13:28 GMT This reminded me of one of those factoids I learned in Binocular Vision 101 that I haven't ever needed in clinical practice more than 20 years later. But, here is my theory for what it is worth.
It would seem to me that you could be suffering from intermittent esophoria, i.e. the eyes turning in. This may also be accompanied by farsightedness. The visual system uses a number of cues to perceive depth. One set of cues is termed "oculomotor cues." In other words, we normally converge our eyes and accommodate when seeing things closeup. If the image of the object of regard falls on the retina nasally to the fovea, as would happen when the eyes over-converge, then the object will appear to be further away. The opposite case, i.e. the image falling temporally to the fovea when the eyes are underconverged, would cause the opposite effect. Of course, the opposite situation can also exist, i.e. the eyes underconverge, then all of the sudden snap into the proper vergence, causing the object to change from appearing closer than normal to further away.
So, in summary, it sounds to me like there is some undiagnosed, intermittent vergence disorder, or heterophoria, causing this phenomenon. Of course, the question of why this does not occur at very close range such as reading distance can be explained by the fact that your eyes may be going from binocular mode to monocular mode. High heterophorias, especially convergence insufficiency, often decompensate as we get older, or under conditions of extreme fatigue. If the heterophoria decompensates into a frank strabismus, i.e. eyes crossing, then this might conceivably trigger a cat scan or MRI to rule out some type of lesion.
DrG
> Hi > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jim
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