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Medical Forum / General / Vision / January 2005

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Otis Brown Log, 15 Jan

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LarryDoc - 16 Jan 2005 04:49 GMT
In a remarkable turn of events, there were no, zero, ziltch, nada, posts
today from the poster of unprovable, unsupportable BS.

Let's all hope that he has finally understood that this forum is for the
discussion the science and medicine of vision and the vision system and
his posts contribute nothing of value to this group. There is simply no
value to his writing, and no reason for Otis Brown to post here.
Dr. Leukoma - 16 Jan 2005 04:57 GMT
I hope he isn't ill.

DrG
otisbrown@pa.net - 16 Jan 2005 05:08 GMT
Dear Larry, and DrG-- and Mike Tyner as well,

Subject:  Your concern for myself and the PREVENTION of nearsighedness

I am pleased the Mike finally stated the real reason
why he an other ODs can't offer true-prevention
with the plus.

You are not legally allowed to do so.  I understand
that situation perfectly.

That leaves it to the individual to assess the
objective facts himself  -- and by other means -- and
determine which course of action meets his
long-term visual requirements.

Certainly a difficult task indeed.

But let use continue these pleasant
discussions about determining the
exact behavior of the natural eye -- on
an "input" versus "output" basis, for
those who have the motivation to
use the plus correctly and successfully.

And as advocated by Steve Leung OD
on:

www.chinamyopia.com

Best,

Otis
Engineer
RM - 16 Jan 2005 17:27 GMT
> I am pleased the Mike finally stated the real reason
> why he an other ODs can't offer true-prevention
> with the plus.
>
> You are not legally allowed to do so.  I understand
> that situation perfectly.

Once again, you are conveniently misrepresenting what you were told!  You do
indeed have trouble with objective thinking now don't you!

MT told you that he would not object to someone who was already using plus
as a prevention method continuing to do so.  After all, it hasn't proven to
do anyone any harm.  However, it has not been proven to help anyone either.
If they choose of their own accord to do it, then so be it.  It might in
fact prevent them from becoming an accommodative myope (whom in fact is the
ONLY type of myope your method can help).  Too bad most myopes aren't
accommodative myopes.

Since you have trouble keeping the facts straight, as well as the actual
statements that people make to you, let me spell out to you why I don't
recommend plus as a treatment.

1.    It has not been proven to work.
2.    It adds financial burden to patients to buy plus lenses.
3.    It visually disrupts that patient's vision, and/or is impractical to
the patients lifestyle.  By this I mean that looking through plus lenses in
the distance blurs their vision.  And wearing them only at near necessitates
that they carry them with them all the time and constantly take them on and
off.  I would not hesitate to suggest that the patient endure these
annoyances IF IT WAS PROVEN TO ACTUALLY HELP ANYONE.  However, since it
hasn't been, it would be wrong for me to suggest it.
4.    Patient's who are already slightly myopic are seeing an eye doctor
because they are having problems with distance blur.  Why would anyone
accept a prescription that makes their vision worse instead of better?
People who drive or perform critical distance tasks are seeing an eye doctor
for help, not to make their symptoms worse.  As I said above, I would not
hesitate to suggest that the patient endure even more distance blur, or deal
with the annoyance of using a reading-only prescription, IF IT WAS PROVEN TO
ACTUALLY HELP ANYONE, BUT IT HASN'T BEEN!
5.    And finally, since there is no proven medical/scientific merit to
using plus lenses to prevent or reduce myopia, suggesting that patients
actually use it does in fact constitute a potential legal/licensing issue
for an eye doctor (as it should).

If you want to change the way eye doctors prescribe lenses for myopia, GO
PROVE YOUR POINT IN SCIENTIFIC STUDIES.    Quit misquoting people, and quit
practicing medicine without a license.   It is clear to everyone here what a
fool you are-- you aren't convincing anyone.

Perhaps, as others have suggested, your continued posts and newgroup ranting
is simply fulfilling some sick psychological need that you have.  Perhaps
you don't care if you are right or wrong, you just like to read your own
prose and see how others react to your incredible statements.  If so, then I
pity you.  You need professional help.  Get a real life and get off this
myopia-prevention crusade.
LarryDoc - 16 Jan 2005 18:04 GMT
> Once again, you are conveniently misrepresenting what you were told!  You do
> indeed have trouble with objective thinking now don't you!

You really could have stopped right there and saved 40 lines of text.
Brown is certainly not going to read it and he'll only re-post what he's
done daily for over two years.

You only need to write enough to warn the folks who come here looking
for rational, scientific discussion.

Please don't engage the useless Otis Brown. We only need to protect the
newbies from his lunacy.
Dr Judy - 16 Jan 2005 21:24 GMT
> Dear Larry, and DrG-- and Mike Tyner as well,

snip

> And as advocated by Steve Leung OD
> on:
>
> www.chinamyopia.com

Don't forget to remind us that Steve Leung is currently facing legal action
from his licensing body regarding the claims he makes on his site.

Dr Judy
Joe Stella - 16 Jan 2005 17:24 GMT
>I hope he isn't ill.

Don't worry, Otis isn't ill.  He just needs new computer glasses.

  :-)  :-)  :-)
otisbrown@pa.net - 16 Jan 2005 17:15 GMT
Dear Larry,

Larry>  In a remarkable turn of events, there were no, zero, ziltch,
nada, posts
today from the poster of unprovable, unsupportable BS.

Otis>  What is unsuporttable BS is your concept that
a negative lens has no effect on the REFRACTIVE
STATE of a population of NATURAL EYES.

You keep insisting (with out any proof) that the
natural eye is a frozen box camera, and
the when directly challenged -- you change
you "story" in an number of not-scientific ways.

No, you a perptuation a profound myth --
that the natural eye is not a dynamic system.

SO SAY YOU ONE -- SO SAY YOU ALL

But letting Jan's statement, "...the concept
that the natural eye is dynamic ... must be destroyed"
sets a dangerous precident.  I implies that
a person's right to an informed, second-opinion
MUST BE SURPRESSED.  And this
based on the preferred method of the
last 400 years.

Let's all hope that he has finally understood that this forum is for
the
discussion the science and medicine

Otis> My discussion are about proving that the natural
eye is dynamic.  My discussions are not about medicine.

Otis>  If Jan or you want to make rediculous statemets
about the behavior of the natural eye -- and call
it "medicine" -- then go ahead and do so.
But when you talk about a scientific analysis
concerniing the behavior of the natural eye -- the
entire issue is profoundly different.

of vision and the vision system and
his posts contribute nothing of value to this group.

Otis>  Larry -- that is your opinion.  Even other
doctors do not agree with you opinion, if
you would read

www.chinamyopia.org

At least have the good grace to admit that
prevention with the plus is the second opinion,
rather than restating you hubris all the time.

There is simply no
value to his writing, and no reason for Otis Brown to post here.

Otis>  The USA is a free country and we have the
right to post our beliefs -- and the science behind them.

Otis>  Indeed Mike Tyner agrees that wearing a
+3 dipoters (as I ADVOCATE) is a good idea for
a young child.  It is the parents who are
taking responsibility for this action.

In fact he states he can not take LEGAL responsibility
and I understand THAT issue perfectly.

Enjoy,

Otis
Engineer
- 16 Jan 2005 18:18 GMT
> Dear Larry,
> You keep insisting (with out any proof) that the
> natural eye is a frozen box camera, and
> the when directly challenged -- you change
> you "story" in an number of not-scientific ways.

Otis, please show the proof that Larry has written the eye is functioning
like a frozen box camera.
You can't Otis.
You behave like a charlatan.

> But letting Jan's statement, "...the concept
> that the natural eye is dynamic ... must be destroyed"
> sets a dangerous precident.

If I (Jan) realy said the above, you are correct, but Otis, I did not.
Again Otis, you are a charlatan.

Otis, the man who NEVER shows real proof and tells us lots of fairy-tails.

> I implies that
> a person's right to an informed, second-opinion
> MUST BE SURPRESSED.

Non of the real eyecare proffessionals in this newsgroup are trying to keep
people away from a second opinion Otis, on the conterary by responding to
questions in this newsgroup they show just the opposite.

Signature

Free to  Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

In conclusion, I think that the "Otis therapy" should be destroyed

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

LarryDoc - 16 Jan 2005 20:48 GMT
> > Dear Larry,
> > You keep insisting (with out any proof) that the
> > natural eye is a frozen box camera, and
> > the when directly challenged -- you change
> > you "story" in an number of not-scientific ways.

Your a liar Otis. I've never said that and would never say that.
Clearly, you are a very sick man who has been boxed into a corner with
your lies. Saying your lies over and over again, daily for two years
does not make then true. Except, perhaps, in your own mind.

It really is time for you to go away. No one here gives a damn about
what you have to say. We post this thread only to warn off others. There
is no need for you to reply.
RM - 16 Jan 2005 19:03 GMT
> You keep insisting (with out any proof) that the
> natural eye is a frozen box camera, and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> SO SAY YOU ONE -- SO SAY YOU ALL

Show us where anyone said this except you!  You keep trying to push this
phrase, which you think is somehow damning, into everyones mouth.  You are
the only one who has quoted this phrase.

You are not a charlatan, you are a liar!

> But letting Jan's statement, "...the concept
> that the natural eye is dynamic ... must be destroyed"
> sets a dangerous precident.  I implies that

Jan said that your stupid theory of prevention must be destroyed.  You keep
trying to push this misquoted phase on him until he relents and accepts it.
Only YOU said it.

You are not a charlatan, you are a liar!

> Let's all hope that he has finally understood that this forum is for
> the
> discussion the science and medicine

Yes, and what does your postings have to do with science and medicine.  Your
posts have to do with argument for the sake of argument.  You have nothing
for us but bias and misquotes!

> Otis>  Larry -- that is your opinion.  Even other
> doctors do not agree with you opinion, if
> you would read

That is my opinion also!

> There is simply no
> value to his writing, and no reason for Otis Brown to post here.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> +3 dipoters (as I ADVOCATE) is a good idea for
> a young child.

Please provide the link to the exact quote where Mike Tyner stated that he
recommended that young children wear a +3 lens.  Do it.

You misquote people and try to put words in their mouth.  You are not just a
charlatan, you are a liar!

> In fact he states he can not take LEGAL responsibility
> and I understand THAT issue perfectly.

Yes, we cannot take legal responsibility for suggesting therapies that have
not been proven to work.
You misquote and you lie!

> Enjoy, Otis Engineer

I bet you do get some kind of sick psychological enjoyment out of misquoting
and stirring things up in this newsgroup.  Otis Brown is a sick person,
indeed!!
otisbrown@pa.net - 17 Jan 2005 05:08 GMT
Dear Friend,

The let please let Jan post,

Otis Browns concept that the eye is dynamic
"...must be destroyed".

Perhaps you would like to separate pure-scientific
issues -- from "medical" issues.  I would
like to do that.

I believe that -- in the bottom of your heart -- you
also believe that the fundamental and natural
eye is dynamic -- in the sense that I stated it.

Tell me you do not believe that the natural
eye is a sophisticated system -- and
we can "move forward" from that point.

But if you insist that natural eye DOES NOT
CHANGE its REFRACTIVE STATE
on and "input" versus "output" type of
SCIENTIFIC test -- the we can
do pure scientifc experiments
to determing the true behavior of
the exclusively natural eye.

But you will figure out some
way to state that the concept
of the natural eye being dynamic -- must
be destroyed.

Best,

Otis
Dr Judy - 16 Jan 2005 21:22 GMT
> Dear Larry,

snip

> You keep insisting (with out any proof) that the
> natural eye is a frozen box camera, and
> the when directly challenged -- you change
> you "story" in an number of not-scientific ways.

Get real Otis,  no one has ever suggested a box camera as a model for the
eye except you.  We have repeatedly pointed out to you that cameras are poor
model for the human eye because accommodation exists in eyes and not in box
cameras.

snip rest of usual blah blah blah

Dr Judy
 
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