Medical Forum / General / Vision / January 2005
Single Vision vs bifocal lenses
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abnerdoorman@yahoo.com - 08 Jan 2005 21:02 GMT They got a new doctor at the optometrist I go to. After the exam he asked whether I wanted to go with bifocals or single vision lenses. The old guy, the last time I went said I abosolutely had to go to bifocals which I did. I never did like them. I have a really wide vision field for one thing. I'll suck it up an live with bifocals if I need to but wearing my old single vision pair the last couple days has been LUXURY. So I asked the new doc and he said it was really just my call based on the tradeoffs. My prescription is
R -600 -025 150 L -600 050 020
Bifocal R 150 L 150
So am I delusional thinking of trying single vision lenses this time around? I told them I would think about it for a week. If I did that, would it make sense to check into one of the big chain places and find the mega cheapest pair of single vision glasses they had to try for a month and then write off if it doesn't work work out?
Thanks for any insights you may have on this.
-A
Mike Tyner - 08 Jan 2005 23:10 GMT > So am I delusional thinking of trying single vision lenses this > time around? I told them I would think about it for a week. If I did > that, would it make sense to check into one of the big chain > places and find the mega cheapest pair of single vision glasses > they had to try for a month and then write off if it doesn't work > work out? Choose a chain with a guarantee, and after a week you'll probably go back and have them redone as bifocals.
If you have bifocals now, and your distance prescription hasn't changed much, try reading through the top of your glasses. I'm guessing you won't like it after a while.
-MT
otisbrown@pa.net - 09 Jan 2005 04:12 GMT Dear Abner,
This comes down to a personal choice. It is nice that your judgment was respected in this matter.
I have an "under-prescribed" minus that I wear around the house all the time. I keep a stronger minus in the car -- for driving.
I would not wear a bifocal -- but that is my opinion. Let use know what you decide.
Best,
Otis Engineer
> Dear Abner, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Otis > Engineer How nice to see how you proved yourself and many others here, your idea of wearing a plus lens (less minus power than is needed) did not provide any change in your amount off myopia Otis!!
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be destroyed.
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
otisbrown@pa.net - 10 Jan 2005 18:25 GMT Dear Jan,
As always -- you jump to your preferred conclusion!
It is true that when some one puts a strong, over prescribed minue lens on your face -- your eyes will adapt to that lens, and your self-imposed confined enviroment.
If you wish to see what kids are doing with their eyes (which you totally ignore) why not click on:
www.myopiafree.com
and on -12 diopters.
I certainly agree that I did this, and my refractive state moved negative because of it.
So I take personal responsibility for doing this as a 6 year-old child. That responsibility was mine. But I learned from my mistake -- after it was too late to do anything about it. Now I am stuck with the consequences of both my own actions -- and the compounding effect of that wretched minus lens.
This is the resaon why I worked with Dr. Francis Young, and my sister's children so that they might learn of the absolute necessity of "correctly" using the plus as the wise Professor of Optometry, Theo Grosvenor and other optometrists have strongly recommended.
It was the "Bifocal" study of Dr. Francis Young (and explicit OBJECTIVE experimental data) that convinced me that a negative state of the natural eye could be truly PREVENTED, but only if the person concerned with it took engineering-science seriously and AGRESSIVELY used the plus and personally verified their ability to "clear" on the basis of their own eye chart -- and trial-lens kit -- if they have one.
This issue is "who is in control".
But yes, once you start wearing the minus lens there is no getting out of it.
A cautionary note for all of us.
Best,
Otis Engineer
> Dear Jan, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > minue lens on your face -- your eyes will adapt to that lens, > and your self-imposed confined enviroment. And this is what you realy said Otis:
>I have an "under-prescribed" minus that I wear >around the house all the time. I keep >a stronger minus in the car -- for driving. I assume your spectacles for driving are not over-prescribed. Again Otis you are avoiding the real issue namely wearing an under-prescribed minus optical devise such as your glasses in the house must have the same effect as your favorite plus lens therapy must have. Obviously it does not wich is not a surprice. On the other hand, may I say you agree that wearing a correct prescribed minus correction does not influence the amount of myopia? Can whe say your plus lens therapy thereby is useless? If not than try to give a straight answer on these questions. If you don't than beat he retreat Otis.
major snip......
> It was the "Bifocal" study of Dr. Francis Young > (and explicit OBJECTIVE experimental data) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > eye chart -- and trial-lens kit -- if > they have one. Does it mean your plus lens therapy is useless for adults who already are myopic? Then whe make progress!
> This issue is "who is in control". Nature, I think.
> But yes, once you start wearing the > minus lens there is no getting out > of it. Again, does it mean your plus lens therapy is useless to adults?
> A cautionary note for all of us. > > Best, > > Otis > Engineer otisbrown@pa.net - 11 Jan 2005 03:48 GMT Dear Jan,
Since you declared that the concept that the natural eye is dynamic "...must be destroyed", I would suggest that it would be impossible to have any type of conversation with you were true-prevention was the goal.
Further you don't seem to understand the concept of PREVENTION. This meand that the person himself must make the decision to use the plus PROPERLY BEFORE the minus lens is used.
If he reviews the scientifc facts concerning the natural eye's behavior, and chooses to reject forceful use of the plus -- then than ends the possiblity of effective prevention for that person.
Once he starts using the minus, then as per the bifocal studies, he can expect his visoin to go down by about -1/2 diopter per year. You insisted that BOTH the groups go donw at that rate.
I am never going to "fight" with an individual about this issue. If he chooses YOUR minus lens -- that is the end of the possiblity of effective prevention -- and his choice.
And prevention with the plus is difficult -- since it requires BOTH self-motivation and persistance. Any you can never "prescribe" these qualities in a person.
To further reply (accepting your hostility to the concept.)
Does it mean your plus lens therapy is useless for adults who already are myopic?
Otis> If a fully informed pilot (at 20/25) entering a four year college chooses to reject the use of the plus for prevention, then he can expect his vision to go "down" by about -1.3 diopters in four years. Once he makes that choice, there would be no furter point in using the plus -- now would there. The man has made he decision -- and has accepted the consequences. I certainly would make no further attempt to help him. How could I, when he will not help himself. Think about it.
Then whe make progress!
> This issue is "who is in control". Nature, I think.
Otis> Yor biased opinion. But I fogot -- you don't look at any direct scientific facts concerning the behavior of the natural eye -- under direct test. I would think that a pilot who valued his distant vision would take scientific facts more seriously than you do. But yes, the concept that a person could have some "smarts" about this issue --' ";...; must be destroyed".
> But yes, once you start wearing the > minus lens there is no getting out > of it. Again, does it mean your plus lens therapy is useless to adults?
Otis> I NEVER use the term "therapy". Futher, as stated, the pilot at 20/25, entering a four year college will have to take your attitude under consideration in making his choice betwee neglect, and motivated use of the plus -- when it can be effective.
Best,
Otis
Engineer
Mike Tyner - 11 Jan 2005 04:29 GMT > Further you don't seem to understand the > concept of PREVENTION. This meand > that the person himself must make > the decision to use the plus PROPERLY > BEFORE the minus lens is used. I would like to offer prevention to my patients.
Please show us some published evidence that plus can be used in this manner to prevent myopia.
-MT
RM - 11 Jan 2005 11:57 GMT > Since you declared that the concept that the > natural eye is dynamic "...must be destroyed", > I would suggest that it would be impossible Quit misquoting. It's your ridiculous theory on plus lenses for myopic that Jan said "must be destroyed". Frankly I suggest we call the licensing authorities and report you for practicing a profession without a license.
> If he reviews the scientifc facts concerning > the natural eye's behavior, and chooses Please. Please. Provide us with the scientific facts that you keep talking about. You claim you are a good "scientist" with an objective mind-- just tell us the "scientific facts" which prove your point and we will be convinced. Why won't you do it?
A Lieberman - 11 Jan 2005 04:03 GMT > It was the "Bifocal" study of Dr. Francis Young > (and explicit OBJECTIVE experimental data) > that convinced me that a negative state of Otis,
Please provide web references to Dr Young's study, OUTSIDE your website.
Or is Dr Young a made up figure of your imagination.
Allen
otisbrown@pa.net - 11 Jan 2005 21:31 GMT Dear Allen,
Please go back to sleep.
Yes, everything you believe is true.
Scientific truth, research, intelligent understanding of the dynamic nature of the fundamental eye -- well, you are never going to understand any of it.
But some engineers and scientists like Stirling Colgate, Steve Leung and Francis Young have published results that are significant and challenge the traditional minus-lens method of the last 400 years.
It is time for a change my friend -- even if you can not be part of it.
Best,
Otis Engineer
Neil Brooks - 11 Jan 2005 22:15 GMT Allen Lieberman writes:
> Otis, > > Please provide web references to Dr Young's study, OUTSIDE your website. > > Or is Dr Young a made up figure of your imagination. Otis Brown replies:
> Please go back to sleep. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > It is time for a change my friend -- even > if you can not be part of it. So, Otis:
To paraphrase: you are not prepared to provide /any citations/ to back up your assertions or attributions? Rather, you'll respond churlishly to Mr. Lieberman.
You know, there /just might/ be people who frequent this newsgroup who /are/ interested in your theory. Many of those people, though, are more advanced than single-cell organisms and want to see some valid proof.
Are you prepared to offer any?
> Dear Allen, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Otis > Engineer An answer in a charlatanic way, much blabla , no content.
>Otis,
>Please provide web references to Dr Young's study, OUTSIDE your website.
>Or is Dr Young a made up figure of your imagination.
>Allen Otis , the person who is avoiding a confrontation with real knowledge in human eyecare Otis , the person who, when it is getting hot beneath his feet ran out of the tread and start an other useless new one. Otis, the person who has the stupidity to give answers on subjects in this newsgroup without knowing a tiny little bit of the functioning of the eye (i.e the low tension glaucoma question).
Otis, please be so kind and beat the retreat
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
In conclusion, I think that the "Otis therapy" should be destroyed
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
A Lieberman - 12 Jan 2005 01:04 GMT > But some engineers and scientists > like Stirling Colgate, Steve Leung [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > minus-lens method of the > last 400 years. Otis,
Please provide web references to Stirling Colgate, Steve Leung and Francis Young published results, OUTSIDE your website.
Or is Stirling Colgate, Steve Leung and Francis Young a figment of your imagination.
Allen
otisbrown@pa.net - 12 Jan 2005 03:27 GMT Dear Allen,
Steve Leung
www.chinamyopia.org
Young and Colgate supporting the plus for preventiom ONLY.
On my site:
www.myopiafree.com
As always, prevention is difficult -- and DEPENDS on the person making an either-or choice at the threshold, Keep an open mind my friend,
Best,
Otis Engineer
green eyes - 11 Jan 2005 02:56 GMT Dear A, Better still, go to a quality optical shop where, if you are not comfortable with your single vision lenses, they will allow you to pay the difference and switch over to multifocals within the first 90 days. You'll stand a much better chance of being comfortable with any eyewear if they are measured and fitted by an experienced licensed optician...not always easy to find in the chain stores. Nearly any reputable optical will allow for changes in RX, or lens types for 90 days. Just ask so that you're clear on the policy before you spend your money.
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