Medical Forum / General / Vision / December 2004
Former myope at 20/20 -- working towards fighter-pilot vision
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Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 01:18 GMT Subject: Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)
Dear Jon,
Subject: Official Standards of Measurement
Re: Jon: Comments on stair-case myopia
FOUNDATION OF EXCELLENCE
"Tentative efforts lead to tentative outcomes. Therefore give yourself fully to your endeavors. Decide to construct your character through excellent actions and determine to pay the price of a worthy goal. The trials you encounter will introduce you to your strengths. Remain steadfast...and one day you will build something that endures; something worthy of your potential."
Epictetus, Philosopher, 55-135 AD
I am deeply impressed with your success. Your reports to me are very valuable. I needed to know how "repeatable" your eye-chart readings were. The "variation" of 1/4 to 1/3 diopter are normal. Your willingness to continue at the 20/25 "plateau" put you far above the ability of most people. (They would have quit at that point.)
When you contacted me, I was concerned that you get rid of that minus lens, by exceeding the legal requirement of 20/40 or better. When you did that, the medical issue was resolved.
The "official" standard of measurement says that when you read 20/20 your refractive status is zero or better. This is also the definition of "emmetropia".
What you are now "seeing" through a -3/4 D lens is called "best visual acuity". Thus your retina is capable of 20/15, 20/12 and even 20/10.
If you wish to continue this work, then it is "pure scientific" work indeed. It does mean that your refractive status must change by about +0.75 diopters to get to that level.
It should be helpful to know that monkeys in the wild have refractive status from zero to +2.0 diopters, with the average being about +0.75 diopters. This is a valuable and normal refractive status.
The people entering the Naval Academy with superior vision have a refractive status of about this level.
This will again require more work of you. You are now in total control. It is of value to me -- just to know that you can do it.
Some additional commentary:
_______________________________________________
Jon > I still retain my 20/20 vision, reading 5/5 characters on the 20/20 line! I've been busy lately which is why i haven't been emailing you as often. Things are so clear -- I don't really notice any blur -- what a change from last year!
Otis> I know when you were "fighting" towards 20/20 you had many doubts. But after you get to 20/20, and look back, it does not seem as difficult as it was when you were doing the work. Well done!
Jon > I have heard that clearing vision with the plus lens takes longer than for your vision to get worse, I disagree. The fact that I managed to delete two to three years of myopia in about 9 months suggests otherwise.
Otis> That is because of the total effort you made. Most people simply do not have that "drive" to succeed.
Jon > If I had never worn glasses before and had never heard of nearsightedness ...
Otis> The great value to you in doing the work successfully is that you
1. Know you can do it.
2. You now believe and KNOW it is possible.
3. As a scientist-engineer -- you made all the measurements yourself. In my mind, that is the ONLY way this method will work at the present time. In the future, some optometrists may be able to use the method on their own children's.
Jon > I wouldn't notice blurry vision at this point, because my vision seems to clear, and its going to get twice as clear in the coming months.
Otis> Your awareness of the eye chart, and your "clearing" work is the final proof of results seen by Francis Young, Stirling Colgate and Howard Howland.
Jon > Today in class the teacher turned off all the lights and put a projected image on the board. It was a little blurry but i could make it out, as was the same for a lot of other people,
Otis> A large number of people do have the zero-diopter 20/20 vision.
Jon > ...naturally the teacher asked me to read some of it, I made it out and read it. The is one instance where i am so happy i have improved my vision with the plus lens.
Otis> You are happy. I am ecstatic! It is great to see you succeed -- given the profound hostility I get from my "advocacy".
Jon > There was one person in particular who sat behind me that wore glasses for nearsightedness who couldn't make out some of the smaller print.
Otis> The minus lens (tragically) only temporarily clears. Inside of 9 to 12 months, the vision continues "down". This is the tragic situation for that poor kid.
Jon > The boys started making fun of him because he wore glasses and could barely read it, and they didn't wear glasses and could read it perfectly,
Otis> While they may make "fun" of that poor child young now, in the coming years many of them will become nearsighted themselves. The "laughter" will be about THEIR POOR VISION.
Jon > ...it would sound weird to a person who didn't understand, but i knew why he couldn't see the board, because of stair-case myopia.
Otis> That is exactly "it". What a profound tragedy of inept understanding. I am pleased you now completely understand this situation the way you do -- exclusively for your own benefit.
Jon > He had the same problem late in the school year last year and got a stronger pair of glasses, now the vicious cycle has started all over again.
Otis> And the ODs on sci.med.vision PROMOTE this stair-case myopia. Tragic and blind beyond belief! And I am told by "Jan" that the concept of true-prevention with a plus, "...must be destroyed".
Jon > I have a focal state of about -1 to -3/4D and yet have 20/20 vision, I really must have a good retina!
Otis> Buy the "classical" definition you have 20/20 and a refractive status of zero. Your "best visual acuity" is 20/10 through a -3/4 diopter lens.
Jon > The fact that a -3/4D lens clears me to the 20/10 line can get confusing sometimes, because I can begin to think that my vision is better (diopter wise) than it really is.
Otis> 20/20 is superior vision. If you choose to continue your work to better-than 20/20, and achieve 20/15, then your refractive status will be "positive" by about +1/2 to +3/4 diopter by the "classical" and traditional method of eye-measurement.
Otis> Keep me posted on your work and your decision to continue. I always enjoy hearing from you! If you do manage to clear to 20/15, that will be the final step indeed.
Otis> Always remember Steve Leung. I can "push" this idea as much as possible, but I need the "backing" of a true-professional like Steve to make this process work. Please write him a few sentences about your successful efforts. He comes under severe pressure to "shut up" about prevention with a plus.
Best,
Otis
Jon
A Lieberman - 28 Nov 2004 02:51 GMT > Subject: Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15) Snipped a bunch of drivel.
Hey Otis, why don't you get your so called "pilots" to post to this newsgroup. Or maybe they are a figment of your imagination?
If these so called Jon's and Shawns are so smart, I am sure they would be more then happy to subject themselves to inquisitive minds on this group.
Allen
Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 15:31 GMT > > Subject: Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15) > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Allen Dear Allen,
You presume to tell people what the should and should not do.
I don't think so.
Shawn (Jon) cleared his vision by intelligently "ending" his "near" environment. He knew what he wanted in his life.
He intelligently reviewed the -1/3 diopter per year statistics as the 2 military academies.
He made a choice in the face of contradictory advice.
His naked eye vision is now 20/20.
Is yours?
Who did the better scientific job?
Shawn has "won" the battle -- and you are at -3 diopters.
But I understand you have no interest in learning anything new.
Best,
Otis
A Lieberman - 28 Nov 2004 18:53 GMT <snipped more drivel>
> His naked eye vision is now 20/20. > > Is yours? My vision corrected is 20/20. What difference does it make? NONE. I see just as well as Shawn.
Answer the original question Otis. I am reposting it below this paragraph for your convienance.
>> If these so called Jon's and Shawns are so smart, I am sure they would be >> more then happy to subject themselves to inquisitive minds on this group. Why not invite your so called subjects to the newsgroup?
Allen
Dr. Leukoma - 28 Nov 2004 21:00 GMT >> > Subject: Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15) >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > I don't think so. But Otis, Allen is not telling people what they should and should not do. It is you who are doing that. Allen is simply disagreeing with your premises. You are accusing him of the very thing you do.
Shame on you.
DrG
Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 21:01 GMT Dear Allen,
Since you insulted this young man previously, I doubt that he is interested in talking to you.
However, why now write an "essay" explaining
1. Why he should not have cleared his vison from -1.5 diopters (20/60) to 20/20. What do you suggest -- that he should NOT HAVE DONE IT. What kind of fool do you take him for?
2. If you are "happy" with your minus lens (it works and is very easy) the why worry about the fact that highly motivated engineers (who actually examine objective factual data), can clear this distant vision BY THEIR OWN EFFORTS?
If you wish to persuade him to "revert" to the primitive method of the minus lens, then do so. I will forward your statment to him and well will have a good chuckle together about your "opinion".
He has "won" a very difficult battle to protect his long-term vision.
While "Shawn" is not a pilot -- he shows all the elements of a good scientst -- like Dr. Colgate had. I would bet that he will further develop those talents in the coming years, an eventually obtain a science degree of some sort -- if not a Ph.D.
Maybe that it the "quality" person it takes to resolve this difficult issue of true prevention.
Best,
Otis
Otis Engineer
____________
> > Subject: Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15) > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Allen A Lieberman - 28 Nov 2004 23:12 GMT > Since you insulted this young man previously, I doubt > that he is interested in talking to you. Otis,
Answser this question Otis, don't add more drivel. Why don't you let Shawn make that decision?
After all, you said he was an adult as a young teenager. It appears that you are making decisions for him by saying "I doublt that he is interested in talking to me. After all, you said he was an intelligent adult
And even if he doesn't talk to me, maybe he will talk to the medical professionals in this newsgroup. I don't think they have insulted him!
Again I ask directly, why doesn't Shawn talk to the newsgroup? Maybe your Shawn doesn't exist???
> However, why now write an "essay" explaining <snipped more worthless drivel as it was an essay of drivel>
Allen
RM - 28 Nov 2004 03:31 GMT I am automatically posting this reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread that is receiving comments from a certain person named "Otis".
Otis is not an expert in any field of vision. His medical and eyecare training is nill. He is a proponent of a myopia (i.e. nearsightedness) prevention technique that is unproven at best, and has in some aspects even been disproven by controlled scientific studies.
I do not mean to suppress the opinions of anyone. I only mean to forewarn anyone who might misconstrue Otis as a trained eyecare expert. Please take the remarks made by Otis with a grain of salt.
RM Ph.D. O.D.
Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 15:41 GMT Dear Prevention minded friends,
RM does not have the good grace to even post his own name.
I have always represented myself as an ENGINEER, and not as a medical person.
I expect the person to understand that difference.
It is clear that I believe that a negative refractive state of the eye can be prevented -- under certain specific circumstances.
I certainly agree that prevention with the plus must be started BEFORE the minus is used. This does require that a person "face facts" and make an either-or decision. I think that all ODs should be required to introduce us to that type of choice. Obviously RM does not share this opinion.
Some optometrists have in fact recommended the use of the plus -- for prevention. Among them are Dr. Steve Leung, who identifes the minus lens as a "problem". Read:
www.chinamyopia.org
You have a right to understand this "second opinion", and the right to reject it -- for that matter.
But if rejected, and you begin wearing the minus, you should understand that the natural eye "adapts" its refractive state to the minus lens, and you can expect your refractive state to move "down" at a rate of about -1/2 diopter per year.
I always look a person in the eye when talking to him. I expect straight answers to sharply-defined questions. If I ask a man about his "dissertation" I expect a response. If that man can not even publish his name, and will not publish his dissertation title, the I simply do not trust him.
A man is generally proud of his work, leading to a published dissertation.
Could RM explain why he is not proud of his dissertation. I know I would have no problem posting work I am pround of.
How about it RM?
Would you?
Best,
Otis
> I am automatically posting this reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread > that is receiving comments from a certain person named "Otis". [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > RM > Ph.D. O.D. Robin Parsons - 01 Dec 2004 18:08 GMT > Dear Prevention minded friends, > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > RM > > Ph.D. O.D. Otis means well and his role as prevention of myopia expert should not be taken lightly. He has never claimed that the use of a plus lens will give you much more than the ability to pass a driving test. To be effective the plus lens has to be worn before myopia is detected and ideally should be fitted at birth which is good news for the optical industry. This may seem like carrying a rabbit's foot to avoid being struck by lightning, but chacun a son gout as some comedian once said. Robin Parsons Visionsenz@yahoogroups.com
Scott Seidman - 01 Dec 2004 18:12 GMT > >> I have always represented myself as an ENGINEER, >> and not as a medical person. And why is this. Are you credentialed as an engineer, as in PE?
Scott
Nicolaas Hawkins - 01 Dec 2004 22:53 GMT > To be > effective the plus lens has to be worn before myopia is detected and > ideally should be fitted at birth which is good news for the optical > industry. This may seem like carrying a rabbit's foot to avoid being > struck by lightning, but chacun a son gout as some comedian once said. Can you explain to the group how vision and gout are related?
 Signature Regards, Nicolaas.
...All bleeding stops ... eventually.
Otis Brown - 03 Dec 2004 16:21 GMT Dear Robin, old friend,
You have some of this correct -- and some not!
First: I do advocate that a person who is "just" getting into nearsighedness be informed of the potential "preventive" alternative. The OD would check the vision and say, you 16 year-old son has 20/50 vision. I see that is wishes to qualify as a pilot at the Naval Academy.
I can provide a minus lens which will instantly make his vision 20/20, or I can help him understand the "second opinion". My "rates" will be for my time. Ultimate control will exist in your son's judgment in this process.
Sice his decision will have life-time consquences for him, I think he should review the objective facts concerning the eye's behavior very carefully. Please have him read:
www.chinamyopia.org
For this capable second-opinion.
Please return in two weeks and I will support him -- using either method. The choice is his. After all, his eyes belong to him, and not me.
I think that statement would clear the air for all concerned.
Best,
Otis
> Otis means well and his role as prevention of myopia expert should not > be taken lightly. He has never claimed that the use of a plus lens [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > struck by lightning, but chacun a son gout as some comedian once said. > Robin Parsons Visionsenz@yahoogroups.com A Lieberman - 04 Dec 2004 03:10 GMT > carefully. Please have him read: <snipped totally nonsense URL>
> Please return in two weeks and I will support > him -- using either method. The choice is > his. After all, his eyes belong to him, > and not me. Oh yeah, great, an engineer giving medical advice on eyecare by giving "support".
Remember, for those reading this, that Otis is an engineer. Giving support on eye treatment should be disregarded when Otis gives it.
He states that he has "healed" (I believe) two non existent people that won't even come to the newgroup to share their experiences.
Head the warning by disregarding Otis, the imaginator.
Allen
Otis Brown - 04 Dec 2004 06:01 GMT Dear Allen,
Please get your "word" right.
I never say "cure".
I never say "healed".
What I said was that the eye "changes its refractive status" from:
1. Forced wearing of a minus lens.
2. Forced change (negative delta) in its average visual enviroment.
You can "twist" this basice science of the natural eye -- if you wish -- but it does not change the objective, scientific facts as they concern the dynamic behavior of the natural eye.
Best,
Otis Engineer
> > carefully. Please have him read: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Allen > Subject: Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15) Gigantic snip in an ever repeating story......................
Otis the man who NEVER showed PROOF and NEVER came up with an adept of his idea to whom we may address some questions. Otis you are without any doubt a nice old grandpa and a nice storyteller, keep it that way and beat the retread.
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be destroyed.
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 15:26 GMT Dear Jan,
You start by stating that "the concept that the natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed".
Does that sound like an open fair-minded person.
Or does it sound like a man whos mind has slammed shut a long time ago.
Yes, I presented objective proof that the NATURAL EYE is dynamic. You choose to TOTALLY IGNORE all scientific proof that you don't like. That, my friend, is not "science" that is your own incredible intellectual blindness.
You then ask for "proof" after ignoring all the "warning bells" about science, and indeed the statemnts made by the scientist, Dr. Stirling Colgate.
Go back in your shop, and continue to practice the method put in place 400 year ago. No wonder there is no progress.
Best,
Otis
> > Subject: Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Otis you are without any doubt a nice old grandpa and a nice storyteller, > keep it that way and beat the retread. A Lieberman - 28 Nov 2004 19:01 GMT > Yes, I presented objective proof that the > NATURAL EYE is dynamic. You choose to > TOTALLY IGNORE all scientific proof that > you don't like. That, my friend, is > not "science" that is your own incredible > intellectual blindness. Otis,
I have asked you time and time again for websites NOT ASSOCIATED WITH YOURS proving your position. You have yet to do this.
I will ask a direct question again.
Please provide CURRENT websites supporting your position about plus lense therapy preventing Myopia.
Not some mumbo jumbo off the wall websites, but credible websites that the medical professionals can read for themselves. As stated before, I am not in the medical profession.
Maybe you need to open your intellectual vision and answer questions.
Allen
Dr. Leukoma - 28 Nov 2004 20:59 GMT > Dear Jan, > > You start by stating that "the concept that the > natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed". But that is not what he said.
You are being intellectully dishonest, again, and again, and again.
DrG
> Dear Jan, > > You start by stating that "the concept that the > natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed". More exact, the following is what I stated Otis.
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be destroyed.
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
Otis Brown - 29 Nov 2004 15:59 GMT Dear Jan,
Your comment is duly noted, and has been sent to "Shawn" for his thoughtful evaluation.
Since he has cleared his vision from 20/60 to 20/20 (an now working on better-than 20/20 I am certain he will AVOID YOU AND YOUR OPINION by keeping his distant vision at 20/20 for the next sever years -- when, otherwise his vision would continue down at a rate of -1/2 to -1/3 diopter per year.
I think Shawn has won this battle -- and perhaps the war.
What do you think?
Best,
> > Dear Jan, > > > > You start by stating that "the concept that the > > natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed". > > More exact, the following is what I stated Otis. Again you avoid to give straight answers Otis and you again are changing the subject. Feel free to put your reading glasses on and keep your eyes open please and read what you and I did wrote:
> Dear Jan, > > You start by stating that "the concept that the > natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed". More exact, the following is what I stated Otis.
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be destroyed.
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
And this is your answer:
> Dear Jan, > > Your comment is duly noted, > and has been sent to "Shawn" > for his thoughtful evaluation. Don't believe a word of this nonsens. If this guy is that intelligent he already recognized the nonsense you are vomiting Otis. There is no ''Shawn'', admit it and stop with this nonsens.
> Since he has cleared his vision > from 20/60 to 20/20 (an now [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > What do you think? Since there excists no "Shawn'' there is no battle to win You, on the other hand, have lost this "battle'' a long time ago and shouldt beat the retreat Otis. However, I'll think you start a new thread and continue with your never ending useless crap stories. I stopped explaining what is wrong in your ideas (every thing is already explained) but warning layman against your ideas Otis, has to be be continued.
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be destroyed.
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
Mike Tyner - 29 Nov 2004 19:29 GMT > I think Shawn has won this > battle -- and perhaps the war. > > What do you think? You don't really care what we think. FWIW:
We think sometimes accommodative myopes become axial myopes.
-MT
Otis Brown - 30 Nov 2004 02:45 GMT Dear Mike,
"Shawn" was nearsighted by -1.5 dioters -- as measured by a highly qualified OD. His eyes were not extracted and no "length" was measured. A refractive status (using the standard method) of -1.5 diopters for his natural eyes was established, as well as an eye-chart reading of 20/60.
What we do know is that "Shawn" worked VERY HARD with the plus and checked his own eye chart very carefully. It was indeed very frustrating, since the natural eye can not clear at a rate better-than about +3/4 diopter per year. (Your estimate is that his eyes will go down at -1/2 diopter per year -- test group AND control group.) So your "theory" says that any "positive change" of refractive status IS IMPOSSIBLE.
I would have been of considerable value for "Shawn" to have a "trial-lens" kit to confirm his refractive status. In fact we discussed the necessity of it. But he was able to make an estimate of his refractive status by using a minus lens he had been given.
As for the results, Shawn proved to himself he could do the work as a persistant engineer.
He is pleased that his judgments of science and objective factual data are consistent with the results he achieved. Since he is now at 20/20, he has no need for your -- or the minus lens at this point.
Thanks for thinking about him and he work to clear his vision to 20/20.
Best,
Otis
cc Shawn
______
> > I think Shawn has won this > > battle -- and perhaps the war. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -MT Mike Tyner - 30 Nov 2004 06:54 GMT > group AND control group.) So your "theory" > says that any "positive change" of refractive > status IS IMPOSSIBLE. How many ways can you misquote me? How many times do I have to say it?
IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE FOR ACCOMMODATIVE MYOPES TO IMPROVE THEIR DISTANCE VISION BY A DIOPTER OR MORE.
> I would have been of considerable value for > "Shawn" to have a "trial-lens" kit to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of his refractive status by using a > minus lens he had been given. So what changed to yield this remarkable recovery? There are only five (count 'em, 5) possible changes that could make an eye less nearsighted under voluntary control:
a) The eye grows shorter b) The cornea grows flatter c) The lens grows flatter d) The refractive index changes e) The ciliary muscle relaxes
Pick one, engineer.
> As for the results, Shawn proved to > himself he could do the work as > a persistant engineer. Engineer, schmingineer. IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE FOR ACCOMMODATIVE MYOPES TO IMPROVE THEIR DISTANCE VISION BY A DIOPTER OR MORE.
> He is pleased that his judgments > of science and objective factual [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > need for your -- or the minus lens > at this point. Judgement, schmudgement. IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE FOR ACCOMMODATIVE MYOPES TO IMPROVE THEIR DISTANCE VISION BY A DIOPTER OR MORE.
> Thanks for thinking about him > and he work to clear his vision > to 20/20. IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE FOR ACCOMMODATIVE MYOPES TO IMPROVE THEIR DISTANCE VISION BY A DIOPTER OR MORE.
Between ages 5 and 25, there are lots of accommodative myopes, and accommodative myopia coexists in lots of anatomical myopes. Between 25 and 50, accommodative myopia resolves spontaneously. LOTS of myopes get a little less nearsighted. Some of them get MUCH less nearsighted.
Accommodative myopia resolves spontaneously. Anatomical myopia does NOT resolve.
-MT
BZall - 30 Nov 2004 12:47 GMT >Between ages 5 and 25, there are lots of accommodative myopes, and >accommodative myopia coexists in lots of anatomical myopes. Between 25 and >50, accommodative myopia resolves spontaneously. LOTS of myopes get a little >less nearsighted. Some of them get MUCH less nearsighted. I know Otis is neither an engineer nor a scientist, since he shows absolutely no knowledge of the fundamentals of either discipline, and I know how frustrating it is for people who actually do know what they are talking about to have him post his ignorant drivel more than 1,500 times, but . . . .
I found the above concise paragraph informative, Dr. Mike. It explained something to me that I must have heard a hundred times but didn't understand the mechanism. So this is at least part of the answer why there is some improvement in a portion of the population (I had heard up to 25%) as people age?
So take heart (from a veteran who has been here since long before the current crop of clueless posters, and even before the sainted Alex E.). Thank you.
BZall@aol.com
Mike Tyner - 30 Nov 2004 15:16 GMT > I found the above concise paragraph informative, Dr. Mike. It explained > something to me that I must have heard a hundred times but didn't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > people > age? A big part of it, evident in the averages. Between 5 and 25 the population average shifts toward minus, driven by the youthful trend toward anatomical myopia. Between 25 and 50 the population average shifts the other way. After 60, the average swings minus again as nuclear sclerosis increases the refractive index of the crystalline lens.
Another revealing phenomenon - the same reflexes that cause accommodative myopia are almost universal in hyperopes, who exhibit an even greater shift toward plus between 25 and 50. Whether nature and anatomy place you to the left or right of zero, the mechanism is the same.
Anyhow, thanks for the encouragement. It took 10 years of practice to develop this understanding and put it into words.
-MT
LarryDoc - 30 Nov 2004 17:11 GMT I think it is important to note, and for readers to be aware: That which Dr. MT and those of us with vision science background post here is based on proven, tested repeatable, clinically observed (thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times) real data.
This is very much unlike "Otis", who invents theories, creates terminology to fit it, and "reports" "findings" based on two individuals who may or may not exist.
--LB. OD
> > I found the above concise paragraph informative, Dr. Mike. It explained > > something to me that I must have heard a hundred times but didn't [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -MT Otis Brown - 30 Nov 2004 15:54 GMT Dear Shawn,
Here is Mikes commentary for your thoughtful review. He keeps on attempting to reduce an appreciation of objective scientific facts (engineering-science) in to a "magic" quick fix which will work "instantly" in his office.
Obviously that is never going to happen.
__________________
Dear Mike,
Thanks for your concern about Shawn's ability to clear his distant vision back to 20/20.
This is consistent with a great mass of SCIENTIFIC (not medical) data that demonstrates that the natural eye CONTROLS its refractive status (the output) to its average visual enviroment (the input).
Since this work requires a major change it a person's average-visual environment.
Given the rather intensive effort required, and the need for the person himself to monitor the results (using eye chart and trial-lens kit) it follows that you CAN NEVER "PRESCRIBE" this type of solution.
Only Shawn's understanding of these issues made it possible for him to follow the method advocated by Dr. Stirling Colgate, and others who have been obviously successful with prevention -- difficult though it may be for them to implement correctly.
In any event, I apprecitate your interest in this work, and will send you commentary to Shawn for his revies -- as he now works to clear his distant vision for better-than 20/20.
Best,
Otis Engineer
> > group AND control group.) So your "theory" > > says that any "positive change" of refractive [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > -MT LarryDoc - 30 Nov 2004 17:24 GMT Readers please note:
Otis Brown posts his ridiculous, unsupported theory to this newsgroup over and over again, day after day. Over a thousand times thus far. Numerous doctor practitioners and vision scientists have clearly and precisely debunked his argument, yet he persists in trying to attract the gullible.
That which those of us with vision science background post here is based on proven, tested repeatable, clinically observed (thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times) real data.
This is very much unlike "Otis", who invents theories, creates terminology to fit it, and "reports" "findings" based on two individuals who may or may not exist.
Please do not reply to "Otis" posts.
Please see the weekly posting "welcome to sci.med.vision" which appears on Mondays for information on how to filter out his posts so that you may be able to participate in worthwhile discussion in this forum.
Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.
> Dear Shawn, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (engineering-science) in to a "magic" quick > fix which will work "instantly" in his office. Forgotten the personal email adress of your imaginary ''Shawn'' Otis? Or are we supposed to believe he is reading here without responding? Come on Otis beat the retreat along with your crap cases.
> Obviously that is never going to happen. How true......
Otis the man who NEVER EVER showed PROOF and NEVER EVER came up with a follower of his ideas to whom we may address some questions. Otis you are without any doubt a nice old grandpa and a nice storyteller, keep it that way and beat the retreat.
 Signature Free to Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be destroyed.
Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
Otis Brown - 30 Nov 2004 21:47 GMT Dear Jan,
Object, scientific factual truth -- and the jugement thereof is up to the man who actively takes control of his long-term visual welfare.
Since that person is not, and can not be you -- if follows that it must be the young man who is doing this work "correctly".
As RM stated, that if you want to work your way out of a negative refractive state then that is YOUR PROBLEM.
That means, for all practical purposes that this young man has NO CHOICE but to do it by his wise jugement of OBJECTIVE SCIENTIFIC FACTS as they concern the proven dynamic behavior of the eye.
You leave him no choice but to clear his distant vision to 20/20, by his own efforts. You don't like that truth -- then that in YOUR PROBLEM.
Best,
Otis
> > Dear Shawn, > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Otis you are without any doubt a nice old grandpa and a nice storyteller, > keep it that way and beat the retreat. Dr Judy - 28 Nov 2004 19:05 GMT > Subject: Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15) > > The "official" standard of measurement says that when you > read 20/20 your refractive status is zero or better. What do you mean by a refractive status of "zero or better". What is better than zero?
This is also
> the definition of "emmetropia". Emmetropia is not defined by a visual acuity measurement, neither is refractive error measured by visual acuity. Refractive error is measured directly, emmetropia is a refractive error of zero dioptres, refractive error correctable by convex lenses is hyperopia and refractive error correctable by concave lenses is myopia.
As usual, Otis is making up his own definitions.
Dr Judy
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