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Medical Forum / General / Vision / December 2004

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Former myope at 20/20 -- working towards fighter-pilot vision

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Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 01:18 GMT
Subject:  Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)

Dear Jon,

Subject:  Official Standards of Measurement

Re:  Jon:  Comments on stair-case myopia

        FOUNDATION OF EXCELLENCE

    "Tentative efforts lead to tentative outcomes.  Therefore
give yourself fully to your endeavors.    Decide to construct your
character through excellent actions and determine to pay the price
of a worthy goal.  The trials you encounter will introduce you to
your strengths.  Remain steadfast...and one day you will build
something that endures; something worthy of your potential."

               Epictetus, Philosopher, 55-135 AD

    I am deeply impressed with your success.  Your reports to me
are very valuable.  I needed to know how "repeatable" your
eye-chart readings were.  The "variation" of 1/4 to 1/3 diopter
are normal.  Your willingness to continue at the 20/25 "plateau"
put you far above the ability of most people.  (They would have
quit at that point.)

    When you contacted me, I was concerned that you get rid of
that minus lens, by exceeding the legal requirement of 20/40 or
better.  When you did that, the medical issue was resolved.

    The "official" standard of measurement says that when you
read 20/20 your refractive status is zero or better.  This is also
the definition of "emmetropia".

    What you are now "seeing" through a -3/4 D lens is called
"best visual acuity".  Thus your retina is capable of 20/15, 20/12
and even 20/10.

    If you wish to continue this work, then it is "pure
scientific" work indeed.  It does mean that your refractive status
must change by about +0.75 diopters to get to that level.

    It should be helpful to know that monkeys in the wild have
refractive status from zero to +2.0 diopters, with the average
being about +0.75 diopters.  This is a valuable and normal
refractive status.

    The people entering the Naval Academy with superior vision
have a refractive status of about this level.

    This will again require more work of you.    You are now in
total control.    It is of value to me -- just to know that you can
do it.

    Some additional commentary:

    _______________________________________________

Jon > I still retain my 20/20 vision, reading 5/5 characters on
     the 20/20 line!  I've been busy lately which is why i
     haven't been emailing you as often.  Things are so clear --
     I don't really notice any blur -- what a change from last
     year!

Otis> I know when you were "fighting" towards 20/20 you had many
     doubts.  But after you get to 20/20, and look back, it does
     not seem as difficult as it was when you were doing the
     work.  Well done!

Jon > I have heard that clearing vision with the plus lens takes
     longer than for your vision to get worse, I disagree.  The
     fact that I managed to delete two to three years of myopia
     in about 9 months suggests otherwise.

Otis> That is because of the total effort you made.  Most people
     simply do not have that "drive" to succeed.

Jon > If I had never worn glasses before and had never heard of
     nearsightedness ...

Otis> The great value to you in doing the work successfully is
     that you

1.  Know you can do it.

2.  You now believe and KNOW it is possible.

3.  As a scientist-engineer -- you made all the measurements
   yourself.  In my mind, that is the ONLY way this method will
   work at the present time.  In the future, some optometrists
   may be able to use the method on their own children's.

Jon > I wouldn't notice blurry vision at this point, because my
     vision seems to clear, and its going to get twice as clear
     in the coming months.

Otis> Your awareness of the eye chart, and your "clearing" work is
     the final proof of results seen by Francis Young, Stirling
     Colgate and Howard Howland.

Jon > Today in class the teacher turned off all the lights and put
     a projected image on the board.  It was a little blurry but
     i could make it out, as was the same for a lot of other
     people,

Otis> A large number of people do have the zero-diopter 20/20
     vision.

Jon > ...naturally the teacher asked me to read some of it, I made
     it out and read it.  The is one instance where i am so happy
     i have improved my vision with the plus lens.

Otis> You are happy.  I am ecstatic!  It is great to see you
     succeed -- given the profound hostility I get from my
     "advocacy".

Jon > There was one person in particular who sat behind me that
     wore glasses for nearsightedness who couldn't make out some
     of the smaller print.

Otis> The minus lens (tragically) only temporarily clears.  Inside
     of 9 to 12 months, the vision continues "down".  This is the
     tragic situation for that poor kid.

Jon > The boys started making fun of him because he wore glasses
     and could barely read it, and they didn't wear glasses and
     could read it perfectly,

Otis> While they may make "fun" of that poor child young now, in
     the coming years many of them will become nearsighted
     themselves.  The "laughter" will be about THEIR POOR VISION.

Jon > ...it would sound weird to a person who didn't understand,
     but i knew why he couldn't see the board, because of
     stair-case myopia.

Otis> That is exactly "it".  What a profound tragedy of inept
     understanding.  I am pleased you now completely understand
     this situation the way you do -- exclusively for your own
     benefit.

Jon > He had the same problem late in the school year last year
     and got a stronger pair of glasses, now the vicious cycle
     has started all over again.

Otis> And the ODs on sci.med.vision PROMOTE this stair-case
     myopia.  Tragic and blind beyond belief!    And I am told by
     "Jan" that the concept of true-prevention with a plus,
     "...must be destroyed".

Jon > I have a focal state of about -1 to -3/4D and yet have 20/20
     vision, I really must have a good retina!

Otis> Buy the "classical" definition you have 20/20 and a
     refractive status of zero.  Your "best visual acuity" is
     20/10 through a -3/4 diopter lens.

Jon > The fact that a -3/4D lens clears me to the 20/10 line can
     get confusing sometimes, because I can begin to think that
     my vision is better (diopter wise) than it really is.

Otis> 20/20 is superior vision.  If you choose to continue your
     work to better-than 20/20, and achieve 20/15, then your
     refractive status will be "positive" by about +1/2 to +3/4
     diopter by the "classical" and traditional method of
     eye-measurement.

Otis> Keep me posted on your work and your decision to continue.
     I always enjoy hearing from you!    If you do manage to clear
     to 20/15, that will be the final step indeed.

Otis> Always remember Steve Leung.  I can "push" this idea as much
     as possible, but I need the "backing" of a true-professional
     like Steve to make this process work.  Please write him a
     few sentences about your successful efforts.  He comes under
     severe pressure to "shut up" about prevention with a plus.

Best,

Otis

Jon
A Lieberman - 28 Nov 2004 02:51 GMT
> Subject:  Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)

Snipped a bunch of drivel.  

Hey Otis, why don't you get your so called "pilots" to post to this
newsgroup.   Or maybe they are a figment of your imagination?  

If these so called Jon's and Shawns are so smart, I am sure they would be
more then happy to subject themselves to inquisitive minds on this group.

Allen
Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 15:31 GMT
> > Subject:  Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Allen

Dear Allen,

You presume to tell people what the should and
should not do.

I don't think so.

Shawn (Jon) cleared his vision by intelligently
"ending" his "near" environment.  He knew
what he wanted in his life.

He intelligently reviewed the -1/3 diopter per year
statistics as the 2 military academies.

He made a choice in the face of contradictory
advice.

His naked eye vision is now 20/20.

Is yours?

Who did the better scientific job?

Shawn has "won" the battle -- and
you are at -3 diopters.

But I understand you have no interest
in learning anything new.

Best,

Otis
A Lieberman - 28 Nov 2004 18:53 GMT
<snipped more drivel>

> His naked eye vision is now 20/20.
>
> Is yours?

My vision corrected is 20/20.  What difference does it make?  NONE.  I see
just as well as Shawn.

Answer the original question Otis.  I am reposting it below this paragraph
for your convienance.

>> If these so called Jon's and Shawns are so smart, I am sure they would be
>> more then happy to subject themselves to inquisitive minds on this group.

Why not invite your so called subjects to the newsgroup?

Allen
Dr. Leukoma - 28 Nov 2004 21:00 GMT
>> > Subject:  Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> I don't think so.

But Otis, Allen is not telling people what they should and should not do.  
It is you who are doing that.  Allen is simply disagreeing with your
premises.  You are accusing him of the very thing you do.

Shame on you.

DrG
Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 21:01 GMT
Dear Allen,

Since you insulted this young man previously, I doubt
that he is interested in talking to you.

However, why now write an "essay" explaining

1.  Why he should not have cleared his vison
from -1.5 diopters (20/60) to 20/20.  What
do you suggest -- that he should NOT HAVE DONE IT.
What kind of fool do you take him for?

2.  If you are "happy" with your minus lens (it
works and is very easy) the why worry about the
fact that highly motivated engineers (who
actually examine objective factual data),
can clear this distant vision BY THEIR OWN
EFFORTS?

If you wish to persuade him to "revert"
to the primitive method of the minus lens,
then do so.  I will forward your
statment to him and well will
have a good chuckle together about
your "opinion".

He has "won" a very difficult battle
to protect his long-term vision.

While "Shawn" is not a pilot -- he shows
all the elements of a good scientst -- like
Dr. Colgate had.  I would bet that he will
further develop those talents in the coming
years, an eventually obtain a science degree
of some sort -- if not a Ph.D.

Maybe that it the "quality" person it
takes to resolve this difficult issue
of true prevention.

Best,

Otis

Otis
Engineer

____________

> > Subject:  Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Allen
A Lieberman - 28 Nov 2004 23:12 GMT
> Since you insulted this young man previously, I doubt
> that he is interested in talking to you.

Otis,

Answser this question Otis, don't add more drivel.  Why don't you let Shawn
make that decision?

After all, you said he was an adult as a young teenager.  It appears that
you are making decisions for him by saying "I doublt that he is interested
in talking to me.  After all, you said he was an intelligent adult

And even if he doesn't talk to me, maybe he will talk to the medical
professionals in this newsgroup.  I don't think they have insulted him!

Again I ask directly, why doesn't Shawn talk to the newsgroup?  Maybe your
Shawn doesn't exist???

> However, why now write an "essay" explaining

<snipped more worthless drivel as it was an essay of drivel>

Allen
RM - 28 Nov 2004 03:31 GMT
I am automatically posting this reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread
that is receiving comments from a certain person named "Otis".

Otis is not an expert in any field of vision. His medical and eyecare
training is nill.  He is a proponent of a myopia (i.e. nearsightedness)
prevention technique that is unproven at best, and has in some aspects even
been disproven by controlled scientific studies.

I do not mean to suppress the opinions of anyone.  I only mean to forewarn
anyone who might misconstrue Otis as a trained eyecare expert.  Please take
the remarks made by Otis with a grain of salt.

RM
Ph.D. O.D.
Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 15:41 GMT
Dear Prevention minded friends,

RM does not have the good grace to even post his
own name.

I have always represented myself as an ENGINEER,
and not as a medical person.

I expect the person to understand that difference.

It is clear that I believe that a negative
refractive state of the eye can be prevented -- under
certain specific circumstances.

I certainly agree that prevention with the plus
must be started BEFORE the minus is used.  This
does require that a person "face facts" and
make an either-or decision.  I think that
all ODs should be required to introduce
us to that type of choice.  Obviously
RM does not share this opinion.

Some optometrists have in fact recommended
the use of the plus -- for prevention.
Among them are Dr. Steve Leung, who
identifes the minus lens as a "problem".
Read:

www.chinamyopia.org

You have a right to understand this
"second opinion", and the right
to reject it -- for that matter.

But if rejected, and you begin wearing
the minus, you should understand that
the natural eye "adapts" its refractive
state to the minus lens, and you can
expect your refractive state to
move "down" at a rate of about -1/2 diopter
per year.

I always look a person in the eye when
talking to him.  I expect straight answers
to sharply-defined questions.  If I ask
a man about his "dissertation" I expect
a response.  If that man can not
even publish his name, and will not
publish his dissertation title, the
I simply do not trust him.

A man is generally proud of his work,
leading to a published dissertation.

Could RM explain why he is not
proud of his dissertation.  I know
I would have no problem posting
work I am pround of.

How about it RM?

Would you?

Best,

Otis

> I am automatically posting this reply to any sci.med.vision newsgroup thread
> that is receiving comments from a certain person named "Otis".
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> RM
> Ph.D. O.D.
Robin Parsons - 01 Dec 2004 18:08 GMT
> Dear Prevention minded friends,
>
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
> > RM
> > Ph.D. O.D.

Otis means well and his role as prevention of myopia expert should not
be  taken lightly. He has never claimed that the use of a plus lens
will give you much more than the ability to pass a driving test. To be
effective the plus lens has to be worn before myopia is detected and
ideally should be fitted at birth which is good news for the optical
industry. This may seem like carrying a rabbit's foot to avoid being
struck by lightning, but chacun a son gout as some comedian once said.
Robin Parsons Visionsenz@yahoogroups.com
Scott Seidman - 01 Dec 2004 18:12 GMT
>  
>> I have always represented myself as an ENGINEER,
>> and not as a medical person.

And why is this.  Are you credentialed as an engineer, as in PE?

Scott
Nicolaas Hawkins - 01 Dec 2004 22:53 GMT
> To be
> effective the plus lens has to be worn before myopia is detected and
> ideally should be fitted at birth which is good news for the optical
> industry. This may seem like carrying a rabbit's foot to avoid being
> struck by lightning, but chacun a son gout as some comedian once said.

Can you explain to the group how vision and gout are related?

Signature

Regards,
Nicolaas.

...All bleeding stops ... eventually.

Otis Brown - 03 Dec 2004 16:21 GMT
Dear Robin, old friend,

You have some of this correct -- and some not!

First:  I do advocate that a person who is "just" getting
into nearsighedness be informed of the potential "preventive"
alternative.  The OD would check the vision and say,
you 16 year-old son has 20/50 vision.  I see that
is wishes to qualify as a pilot at the Naval Academy.

I can provide a minus lens which will instantly make
his vision 20/20, or I can help him understand
the "second opinion".  My "rates" will be for
my time.  Ultimate control will exist in your
son's judgment in this process.

Sice his decision will have life-time consquences
for him, I think he should review the objective
facts concerning the eye's behavior very
carefully.  Please have him read:

www.chinamyopia.org

For this capable second-opinion.

Please return in two weeks and I will support
him -- using either method.  The choice is
his.  After all, his eyes belong to him,
and not me.

I think that statement would clear the air for
all concerned.

Best,

Otis

> Otis means well and his role as prevention of myopia expert should not
> be  taken lightly. He has never claimed that the use of a plus lens
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> struck by lightning, but chacun a son gout as some comedian once said.
> Robin Parsons Visionsenz@yahoogroups.com
A Lieberman - 04 Dec 2004 03:10 GMT
> carefully.  Please have him read:

<snipped totally nonsense URL>

> Please return in two weeks and I will support
> him -- using either method.  The choice is
> his.  After all, his eyes belong to him,
> and not me.

Oh yeah, great, an engineer giving medical advice on eyecare by giving
"support".

Remember, for those reading this, that Otis is an engineer.  Giving support
on eye treatment should be disregarded when Otis gives it.

He states that he has "healed" (I believe) two non existent people that
won't even come to the newgroup to share their experiences.

Head the warning by disregarding Otis, the imaginator.

Allen
Otis Brown - 04 Dec 2004 06:01 GMT
Dear Allen,

Please get your "word" right.

I never say "cure".

I never say "healed".

What I said was that the eye
"changes its refractive status"
from:

1.  Forced wearing of a minus lens.

2.  Forced change (negative delta)
in its average visual enviroment.

You can "twist" this basice science
of the natural eye -- if you wish --
but it does not change the objective,
scientific facts as they concern
the dynamic behavior of the natural eye.

Best,

Otis
Engineer

> > carefully.  Please have him read:
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Allen
- 28 Nov 2004 08:24 GMT
> Subject:  Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)

Gigantic snip in an ever repeating story......................

Otis the man who NEVER showed PROOF and NEVER came up with an adept of his
idea to whom we may address some questions.
Otis you are without any doubt a nice old grandpa and a nice storyteller,
keep it that way and beat the retread.

Signature

Free to  Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be
destroyed.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

Otis Brown - 28 Nov 2004 15:26 GMT
Dear Jan,

You start by stating that "the concept that the
natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed".

Does that sound like an open fair-minded person.

Or does it sound like a man whos mind has
slammed shut a long time ago.

Yes, I presented objective proof that the
NATURAL EYE is dynamic.  You choose to
TOTALLY IGNORE all scientific proof that
you don't like.  That, my friend, is
not "science" that is your own incredible
intellectual blindness.

You then ask for "proof" after ignoring
all the "warning bells" about science,
and indeed the statemnts made
by the scientist, Dr. Stirling Colgate.

Go back in your shop, and continue
to practice the method put in
place 400 year ago.  No wonder
there is no progress.

Best,

Otis
> > Subject:  Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Otis you are without any doubt a nice old grandpa and a nice storyteller,
> keep it that way and beat the retread.
A Lieberman - 28 Nov 2004 19:01 GMT
> Yes, I presented objective proof that the
> NATURAL EYE is dynamic.  You choose to
> TOTALLY IGNORE all scientific proof that
> you don't like.  That, my friend, is
> not "science" that is your own incredible
> intellectual blindness.

Otis,

I have asked you time and time again for websites NOT ASSOCIATED WITH YOURS
proving your position.  You have yet to do this.  

I will ask a direct question again.  

Please provide CURRENT websites supporting your position about plus lense
therapy preventing Myopia.  

Not some mumbo jumbo off the wall websites, but credible websites that the
medical professionals can read for themselves.  As stated before, I am not
in the medical profession.

Maybe you need to open your intellectual vision and answer questions.

Allen
Dr. Leukoma - 28 Nov 2004 20:59 GMT
> Dear Jan,
>
> You start by stating that "the concept that the
> natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed".

But that is not what he said.

You are being intellectully dishonest, again, and again, and again.

DrG
- 29 Nov 2004 00:09 GMT
> Dear Jan,
>
> You start by stating that "the concept that the
> natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed".

More exact, the following is what I stated Otis.

Signature

Free to  Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be
destroyed.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

Otis Brown - 29 Nov 2004 15:59 GMT
Dear Jan,

Your comment is duly noted,
and has been sent to "Shawn"
for his thoughtful evaluation.

Since he has cleared his vision
from 20/60 to 20/20 (an now
working on better-than 20/20
I am certain he will AVOID
YOU AND YOUR OPINION by
keeping his distant vision
at 20/20 for the next
sever years -- when, otherwise
his vision would continue
down at a rate of -1/2 to
-1/3 diopter per year.

I think Shawn has won this
battle -- and perhaps the war.

What do you think?

Best,

> > Dear Jan,
> >
> > You start by stating that "the concept that the
> > natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed".
>
> More exact, the following is what I stated Otis.
- 29 Nov 2004 18:00 GMT
Again you avoid to give straight answers Otis and you again are changing the
subject.
Feel free to put your reading glasses on and keep your eyes open please and
read what you and I did wrote:

> Dear Jan,
>
> You start by stating that "the concept that the
> natural eye is dynamic -- must be destroyed".

More exact, the following is what I stated Otis.

Signature

Free to  Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be
destroyed.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

And this is your answer:

> Dear Jan,
>
> Your comment is duly noted,
> and has been sent to "Shawn"
> for his thoughtful evaluation.

Don't believe a word of this nonsens.
If this guy is that intelligent he already recognized the nonsense you are
vomiting Otis.
There is no ''Shawn'', admit it and stop with this nonsens.

> Since he has cleared his vision
> from 20/60 to 20/20 (an now
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> What do you think?

Since there excists no "Shawn'' there is no battle to win
You, on the other hand, have lost this "battle'' a long time ago  and
shouldt beat the retreat Otis.
However, I'll think you start a new thread and continue with your never
ending useless crap stories.
I stopped explaining what is wrong in your ideas (every thing is already
explained) but warning  layman against your ideas Otis, has to be be
continued.

Signature

Free to  Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be
destroyed.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

Mike Tyner - 29 Nov 2004 19:29 GMT
> I think Shawn has won this
> battle -- and perhaps the war.
>
> What do you think?

You don't really care what we think. FWIW:

We think sometimes accommodative myopes become axial myopes.

-MT
Otis Brown - 30 Nov 2004 02:45 GMT
Dear Mike,

"Shawn" was nearsighted by -1.5 dioters -- as measured
by a highly qualified OD.  His eyes were not extracted
and no "length" was measured.  A refractive status
(using the standard method) of -1.5 diopters for
his natural eyes was established, as well
as an eye-chart reading of 20/60.

What we do know is that "Shawn" worked VERY HARD
with the plus and checked his own eye chart
very carefully.  It was indeed very frustrating,
since the natural eye can not clear at
a rate better-than about +3/4 diopter per
year.  (Your estimate is that his eyes
will go down at -1/2 diopter per year -- test
group AND control group.)  So your "theory"
says that any "positive change" of refractive
status IS IMPOSSIBLE.

I would have been of considerable value for
"Shawn" to have a "trial-lens" kit to
confirm his refractive status.  In fact
we discussed the necessity of it.
But he was able to make an estimate
of his refractive status by using a
minus lens he had been given.

As for the results, Shawn proved to
himself he could do the work as
a persistant engineer.

He is pleased that his judgments
of science and objective factual
data are consistent with the results
he achieved.  Since he
is now at 20/20, he has no
need for your -- or the minus lens
at this point.

Thanks for thinking about him
and he work to clear his vision
to 20/20.

Best,

Otis

cc  Shawn

______

> > I think Shawn has won this
> > battle -- and perhaps the war.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> -MT
Mike Tyner - 30 Nov 2004 06:54 GMT
> group AND control group.)  So your "theory"
> says that any "positive change" of refractive
> status IS IMPOSSIBLE.

How many ways can you misquote me? How many times do I have to say it?

IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE FOR ACCOMMODATIVE MYOPES TO IMPROVE THEIR DISTANCE
VISION BY A DIOPTER OR MORE.

> I would have been of considerable value for
> "Shawn" to have a "trial-lens" kit to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of his refractive status by using a
> minus lens he had been given.

So what changed to yield this remarkable recovery? There are only five
(count 'em, 5) possible changes that could make an eye less nearsighted
under voluntary control:

a) The eye grows shorter
b) The cornea grows flatter
c) The lens grows flatter
d) The refractive index changes
e) The ciliary muscle relaxes

Pick one, engineer.

> As for the results, Shawn proved to
> himself he could do the work as
> a persistant engineer.

Engineer, schmingineer. IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE FOR ACCOMMODATIVE MYOPES TO
IMPROVE THEIR DISTANCE VISION BY A DIOPTER OR MORE.

> He is pleased that his judgments
> of science and objective factual
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> need for your -- or the minus lens
> at this point.

Judgement, schmudgement. IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE FOR ACCOMMODATIVE MYOPES TO
IMPROVE THEIR DISTANCE VISION BY A DIOPTER OR MORE.

> Thanks for thinking about him
> and he work to clear his vision
> to 20/20.

IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE FOR ACCOMMODATIVE MYOPES TO IMPROVE THEIR DISTANCE
VISION BY A DIOPTER OR MORE.

Between ages 5 and 25, there are lots of accommodative myopes, and
accommodative myopia coexists in lots of anatomical myopes. Between 25 and
50, accommodative myopia resolves spontaneously. LOTS of myopes get a little
less nearsighted. Some of them get MUCH less nearsighted.

Accommodative myopia resolves spontaneously. Anatomical myopia does NOT
resolve.

-MT
BZall - 30 Nov 2004 12:47 GMT
>Between ages 5 and 25, there are lots of accommodative myopes, and
>accommodative myopia coexists in lots of anatomical myopes. Between 25 and
>50, accommodative myopia resolves spontaneously. LOTS of myopes get a little
>less nearsighted. Some of them get MUCH less nearsighted.

I know Otis is neither an engineer nor a scientist, since he shows absolutely
no knowledge of the fundamentals of either discipline, and I know how
frustrating it is for people who actually do know what they are talking about
to have him post his ignorant drivel more than 1,500 times, but . . . .

I found the above concise paragraph informative, Dr. Mike. It explained
something to me that I must have heard a hundred times but didn't understand
the mechanism. So this is at least part of the answer why there is some
improvement in a portion of the population (I had heard up to 25%) as people
age?

So take heart (from a veteran who has been here since long before the current
crop of clueless posters, and even before the sainted Alex E.). Thank you.

BZall@aol.com
Mike Tyner - 30 Nov 2004 15:16 GMT
> I found the above concise paragraph informative, Dr. Mike. It explained
> something to me that I must have heard a hundred times but didn't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> people
> age?

A big part of it, evident in the averages. Between 5 and 25 the population
average shifts toward minus, driven by the youthful trend toward anatomical
myopia. Between 25 and 50 the population average shifts the other way. After
60, the average swings minus again as nuclear sclerosis increases the
refractive index of the crystalline lens.

Another revealing phenomenon - the same reflexes that cause accommodative
myopia are almost universal in hyperopes, who exhibit an even greater shift
toward plus between 25 and 50. Whether nature and anatomy place you to the
left or right of zero, the mechanism is the same.

Anyhow, thanks for the encouragement. It took 10 years of practice to
develop this understanding and put it into words.

-MT
LarryDoc - 30 Nov 2004 17:11 GMT
I think it is important to note, and for readers to be aware:  That
which Dr. MT and those of us with vision science background post here is
based on proven, tested repeatable, clinically observed (thousands if
not hundreds of thousands of times) real data.

This is very much unlike "Otis", who invents theories, creates
terminology to fit it, and "reports" "findings" based on two individuals
who may or may not exist.

--LB. OD

> > I found the above concise paragraph informative, Dr. Mike. It explained
> > something to me that I must have heard a hundred times but didn't
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> -MT
Otis Brown - 30 Nov 2004 15:54 GMT
Dear Shawn,

Here is Mikes commentary for your thoughtful
review.   He keeps on attempting to reduce an
appreciation of objective scientific facts
(engineering-science) in to a "magic" quick
fix which will work "instantly" in his office.

Obviously that is never going to happen.

__________________

Dear Mike,

Thanks for your concern about Shawn's ability to
clear his distant vision back to 20/20.

This is consistent with a great mass of
SCIENTIFIC (not medical) data that demonstrates
that the natural eye CONTROLS its refractive
status (the output) to its average visual
enviroment (the input).

Since this work requires a major change it
a person's average-visual environment.

Given the rather intensive effort required,
and the need for the person himself to
monitor the results (using eye chart and
trial-lens kit) it follows that
you CAN NEVER "PRESCRIBE" this type of
solution.  

Only Shawn's understanding of these
issues made it possible for him
to follow the method advocated
by Dr. Stirling Colgate, and
others who have been obviously
successful with prevention -- difficult
though it may be for them to implement
correctly.

In any event, I apprecitate your
interest in this work,
and will send you commentary
to Shawn for his revies -- as
he now works to clear his
distant vision for better-than
20/20.

Best,

Otis
Engineer

> > group AND control group.)  So your "theory"
> > says that any "positive change" of refractive
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> -MT
LarryDoc - 30 Nov 2004 17:24 GMT
Readers please note:

Otis Brown posts his ridiculous, unsupported theory to this newsgroup
over and over again, day after day. Over a thousand times thus far.
Numerous doctor practitioners and vision scientists have clearly and
precisely debunked his argument, yet he persists in trying to attract
the gullible.

That which those of us with vision science background post here is based
on proven, tested repeatable, clinically observed (thousands if not
hundreds of thousands of times) real data.

This is very much unlike "Otis", who invents theories, creates
terminology to fit it, and "reports" "findings" based on two individuals
who may or may not exist.

Please do not reply to "Otis" posts.

Please see the weekly posting "welcome to sci.med.vision" which appears
on Mondays for information on how to filter out his posts so that you
may be able to participate in worthwhile discussion in this forum.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.
- 30 Nov 2004 19:07 GMT
> Dear Shawn,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> (engineering-science) in to a "magic" quick
> fix which will work "instantly" in his office.

Forgotten the personal email adress of your imaginary ''Shawn'' Otis?
Or are we supposed to believe he is reading here without responding?
Come on Otis beat the retreat along with your  crap cases.

> Obviously that is never going to happen.

How true......

Otis the man who NEVER EVER showed PROOF and NEVER EVER came up with a
follower of his
ideas to whom we may address some questions.
Otis you are without any doubt a nice old grandpa and a nice storyteller,
keep it that way and beat the retreat.

Signature

Free to  Marcus Porcius Cato: ''Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

I declare that Otis idea about preventing myopia in humans must be
destroyed.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

Otis Brown - 30 Nov 2004 21:47 GMT
Dear Jan,

Object, scientific factual truth -- and the jugement thereof
is up to the man who actively takes control
of his long-term visual welfare.

Since that person is not, and can not be you -- if
follows that it must be the young man who
is doing this work "correctly".

As RM stated, that if you want to
work your way out of a negative refractive
state then that is YOUR PROBLEM.

That means, for all practical purposes that
this young man has NO CHOICE but to do
it by his wise jugement of OBJECTIVE
SCIENTIFIC FACTS as they concern
the proven dynamic behavior of the
eye.

You leave him no choice but to
clear his distant vision to 20/20,
by his own efforts.  You don't
like that truth -- then
that in YOUR PROBLEM.

Best,

Otis
> > Dear Shawn,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Otis you are without any doubt a nice old grandpa and a nice storyteller,
> keep it that way and beat the retreat.
Dr Judy - 28 Nov 2004 19:05 GMT
> Subject:  Working towards "fighter pilot" vision (20/15)
>
>     The "official" standard of measurement says that when you
> read 20/20 your refractive status is zero or better.

What do you mean by a refractive status of "zero or better".   What is
better than zero?

This is also
> the definition of "emmetropia".

Emmetropia is not defined by a visual acuity measurement, neither is
refractive error measured by visual acuity.   Refractive error is measured
directly, emmetropia is a refractive error of zero dioptres,  refractive
error correctable by convex lenses is hyperopia and refractive error
correctable by concave lenses is myopia.

As usual, Otis is making up his own definitions.

Dr Judy
 
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