Medical Forum / General / Vision / October 2004
Contacts lens worries
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Tony McBride - 27 Oct 2004 12:50 GMT Hi,
I've got a bit of a strange question to ask but i'm quite an anxious sort of person so that probably explains it! Basically I've always wanted to wear contacts ever since I started wearing my glasses. I tried them a few years back and found I couldnt get them in my eye easily so gave up. A few months back I decided to bite the bullet and give it another go.
The good news is that I stuck with it and can now pop them in and out fairly easily. However I haven't really built my wear time up beyond 3 hours since I'm a bit worried that the lenses are getting dry and will get stuck to my eye. I wear ciba focus dailies and find they get a bit itchy after 2 or 3 hours - is this just a sign of getting used to them or should I be taking them out? My optician saw my eyes after a few hours and said they seemed to move well when I blink. Also, my eyes don't get red when the contacts feel uncomfortable.
To be honest I think its to do with a story I heard about someone having a contact lens stuck and having to have it removed at the hospital with some kind of spatula. This has me worried a little so i'm a bit reticient about keeping them in for longer than a few hours.
Any advice or reassurance would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Tony
Mike Tyner - 27 Oct 2004 14:46 GMT > My optician saw my eyes after a few hours and said they seemed to > move well when I blink. Also, my eyes don't get red when the contacts feel > uncomfortable. Lenses that move _too much_ feel dry. The dry feeling increases the longer you wear them.
Ciba dailies are great, but some people have to try several different lenses to find the one that works best.
-MT
Tony McBride - 27 Oct 2004 18:09 GMT Thanks Mike,
I'll check with my optician to see if any other lenses would be more suitable.
Tony
> > My optician saw my eyes after a few hours and said they seemed to > > move well when I blink. Also, my eyes don't get red when the contacts feel [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -MT Evaristo - 27 Oct 2004 17:41 GMT >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Any advice or reassurance would be much appreciated. Jesus Christ.
Listen to your body, that seems to have a little more intelligence than you. Stop this nonsense right away !
Learn how not to strain to see and throw away glasses contacts and surgery.
Close your eyes and while you rest them imagine some color that you readily can imagine. Imagine the object you are remembering to have a small short constant swing from side to side. While doing this move your head from side to side. Do this for at least 20 minutes and become aware of what is wrong with your eyes !
-- "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes."
Tony McBride - 27 Oct 2004 18:08 GMT Hi evaristo,
To be honest, I prefer to put my fatih in something that has been tested. Strangely enough, I have never seen any controlled clinical trials of any exercise-based vision improvement programmes. In fact, many OD's who work on these programmes deliberately forego scientific trials of their programmes.
Considering these kind of snakeoil books have been around for decades and the whole world hasn't picked up on it I doubt very much it has any beneficial value. Although your paranoia may make you believe big business will smother these ideas for fear of lost revenue, the power of 'word-of-mouth' advertising is greater than anything that any corporation could devise. If these exercises did indeed work I'm sure they would be very popular.
Yours atheistically,
Tony
> >Hi, > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > -- > "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes." Evaristo - 27 Oct 2004 21:00 GMT >Hi evaristo, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >could devise. If these exercises did indeed work I'm sure they would be very >popular. Hi.
Even if your reasoning is the classical sheep thinking (remember that the best discoveries in human evolution were made by people that were doubting established thinking) I will gladly address your points.
1) You put faith in people that prescribe you glasses so that other people sell them to you. Then glasses make your naked eye ability to see worse generating the need of new visits to the first kind of people that will prescribe you new glasses. The net result of this is that your vision get worse and your wallet get empty.
2) These unfair businessmen don't give a f**k about your health and more than that they don't give a f**k about science and human evolution but they cunningly use the established authority to bashing any new discovery. Why don't they investigate the discoveries about human eyes made by Bates trying to reproduce his experiments to see if they are factual ? Why they wait for evidence then discard it as anedoctical ? A true scientist investigates the SINGLE fact that doesn't fit in his theory (there are many in eye and vision related disease frequently witnessed by those unfair businessmen) to discover why the theory is not describing what really happens.
3) There are lots of people that are benefited by NOT using glasses or that are cured by the methods of the natural eye that are smashed by the unfair businessmen because if no glasses are needed then no business could go on and no more authority on their part. In fact if someone proves that they are wrong (as it is) the whole establishment will fall apart, so they are the least people to be expected to prove or accept that. Searching for approvement from them is simply foolish, so there will never be controlled clinical trials from those people and they will never recognize them to be scientific. That's the power of authority.
4) You are right about snakeoil books because the unfair businessmen did a very smart thing: instead of completely hide the original publications of the discoverer of the cure of imperfect sight by treatment without glasses (thing that was and is not possible) they did a very cunning thing: they crippled it, and (after the original scientist died) they let it spread without important pieces. Was it a whole world conspiracy thing ? I think not, but it was and is not in their interest to investigate and spread the truth so nobody cared to check it out.
5) The word-of-mouth thing is true. The problem in vision cure is that superstition is strong in people: one of the key element in the cure of imperfect sight by treatment without glasses is the use of the strong light of the sun. Especially for people that wore glasses it is indispensable to get accustomed to strong light. This has to be done to the point that when there is strong light you are not in the least bothered by it, so that there is absolutely no strain or thought of strain. (A lot of people with normal or more than normal sight find absolutely non-problematic to look at the sun, they even enjoy doing it). Now, there is a great fear and superstition about these unfavorable conditions. The discoverer of the methods was an MD and people followed (due to the same authority principle that now hiders the spreading of the truth) his instructions even when he advised them to do the various forms of sun treatment. Nowadays only very few people do the original treatment that includes using the sun glass, learning to look at the sun, etc. Guess what ? Those people are getting results! And not mild ones ! Among intelligent people the word is spreading very rapidly.
6) Why intelligent people are needed to the methods to work ? Simple: the cause of imperfect sight is the wrong idea about the use of the eyes. People with imperfect sight think that to do something better (to see better in this case) an effort is needed. The methods aim at make the patients UNDERSTAND that their imperfect vision is due to them wanting to clear up things with an effort staring at the point they are looking at and trying to see all at the same time like a camera on film. The eye is different from the film in this respect because while the film is equally sensitive in all its area, the retina has a little spot that is more sensitive than the rest, so it follow that one can see only one point (the one he is looking at) best and the rest not so clear. To have an image of the field of vision, the brain takes hints of it by shifting the point of fixation and IMAGINING the rest. (There are NO PIXELS in the brain !). It then follows that improving one imagination one improves the vision. And this is the other important aspect of the methods that is usually neglected by the so called "practitioners" or "teachers". How could you imagine something ? Remembering it! Because one could imagine only something that he saw. The fundamental principle of the cure of imperfect sight by treatment without glasses is exactly this. Practicing with familiar objects (usually letters of a test card) looking at them, closing the eyes and remembering them trying to imagine them without effort. When one learns how to do this the smaller letters clear up because he strain less to see the bigger ones all at once.
Hope this helps to clear things.
Evaristo.
-- "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes."
Otis Brown - 28 Oct 2004 05:13 GMT > >Hi evaristo, > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >could devise. If these exercises did indeed work I'm sure they would be very > >popular. Dear Evaristo,
I went through this man's logic, as well as "Bates" logic.
Indeed I have held some of your opinions -- although moderated to a considerable extent.
I had "figured out" that the "plus" could potentially be used at the threshold -- for true-prevention, but was told, "that is not possible", or the concept "must be destroyed" that I though there was some "science" behind these "excessive opinions".
I reasoned that SOME ODs would have figured this out -- and I was right. What I wondered was how they would treat their own children.
That is the crucial issue, since a man (who is an OD) will care for his own children "differently" that he can care for "the public".
Forget money, forget "business". Find the OD who will help his own children with the plus -- and that will be the optometrist will will lead the world towards a better (and preventive) solution -- based on science, and not on the traditional minus-lens of the last 400 years.
Best,
Otis Engineer
> Hi. > [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > Evaristo. Dr. Leukoma - 28 Oct 2004 12:55 GMT More off-topic responses from our resident trolls.
DrG
>> >Hi evaristo, >> > [quoted text clipped - 141 lines] >> >> Evaristo. Evaristo - 28 Oct 2004 17:07 GMT >More off-topic responses from our resident trolls. > >DrG Lol.
More name calling by our resident unfair businessmen.
-- "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes."
Tony McBride - 29 Oct 2004 00:53 GMT Mmm..
If the moderator of this newsgroup is reading I really think you should do something about this. I came here looking for genuine information and end up listening to people with obvious mental illness.
> >More off-topic responses from our resident trolls. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes." Mike Tyner - 29 Oct 2004 01:51 GMT > If the moderator of this newsgroup is reading I really > think you should do something about this. > I came here looking for genuine information and end > up listening to people with obvious mental illness. Like most public newsgroups, there is no moderator in sci.med.vision, nor any means of censorship if such a position did exist.
99% of the outrageous posts are from three individuals who have no formal training in vision science or medicine. Fortunately, their ad hominems, false assumptions, and emotional appeals make them easy to spot.
If you stick around another day or two, you'll hear how vehemently they assert their right to hijack the newsgroup with their own version of "scientific truth". In the process, they will accuse you of stupidity, or at least naivete, for agreeing with the medical establishment. You will become part of the vast medical/optometric/optical conspiracy, whose members are sworn to keep the truth hidden, in order to sell glasses and contacts and laser surgery.
Periodically, we muster the energy to argue with them. But so far, nobody has successfully discouraged them from using a sci.med newsgroup to denounce what science and medicine consider conventional knowledge. Either we are misrepresenting science and medicine, or science and medicine are wrong and we are fools for not agreeing with archaic and unfounded assertions.
It's sad to see you go, but I don't really see a solution. At times, there is entertainment value in their diatribes. On your way, remember that wearing eyeglasses, improper use of the eyes, and mental defects cause all vision problems. Myopia can be prevented, and only engineers can understand ophthalmic optics. Accommodation is controlled by the extraocular muscles, and cataracts, glaucoma and all blindness can be cured by staring at the sun.
To play the Minuet in G, you have only to THINK the Minuet in G. We know this because Professor Harold Hill said so, 100 years ago.
-MT, OD
Evaristo - 29 Oct 2004 11:11 GMT >> If the moderator of this newsgroup is reading I really >> think you should do something about this. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Like most public newsgroups, there is no moderator in sci.med.vision, nor >any means of censorship if such a position did exist. So, why you and others stand up as the pseudo-moderators ? Say your things and be done. If someone disagrees with you, please do not laugh at him/her, but answer or be quiet. This is the nature of and un-moderated newsgroup and of free-speech. Live and LET live.
>99% of the outrageous posts are from three individuals who have no formal >training in vision science or medicine. Since there are only three people that have doubts about the ability of the formal trained to CURE people from their eye problems then it means that the current vision science and medicine is right and the three people are wrong. Hmm that could be, but could be NOT. You quoted Asimoov without understanding what he was saying. Lol.
>Fortunately, their ad hominems, >false assumptions, and emotional appeals make them easy to spot. So easy that you avoid to do it ? Lol. You haven't read a book that you say has false assumptions and emotional appeals. When asked to spot where they were, you withdrew.
>If you stick around another day or two, you'll hear how vehemently they >assert their right to hijack the newsgroup with their own version of >"scientific truth". You would like to be the only one that can do this ?
>In the process, they will accuse you of stupidity, or at >least naivete, for agreeing with the medical establishment. When the medical establishment claims to be curing people when in fact is wandering in the dark, it is not an intelligent thing to do to follow their advice.
>You will become >part of the vast medical/optometric/optical conspiracy, whose members are >sworn to keep the truth hidden, in order to sell glasses and contacts and >laser surgery. There is no conscious conspiracy, but these people are not interested in curing people from their diseases, they are only interested in their business. Otherwise they would investigate why some cases don't fit their theories and methods.
>Periodically, we muster the energy to argue with them. But so far, nobody >has successfully discouraged them from using a sci.med newsgroup to denounce >what science and medicine consider conventional knowledge. Conventional knowledge about vision and eyes is wrong. Plain and simple. The records of the discovery of what is wrong was made available by the man that discovered it but conventional "scientists" avoid investigating and reproducing the experiments described in those publications. Why they avoid it ? Because it is of no use to anyone apart to the patients that are willing to give their money to anyone with a certain degree of authority, out of desperation about their condition, obviously.
>Either we are >misrepresenting science and medicine, or science and medicine are wrong and >we are fools for not agreeing with archaic and unfounded assertions. The original publications of that man are full of practical experiments to prove the following assertions that are mere descriptions of facts that can be observed by ANYONE replicates those experiments.
The archaic-ness point is weak if you think that your current beliefs about vision, accommodation and the like are WAY OLDER than these about the man that made the discoveries. Way older.
>It's sad to see you go, but I don't really see a solution. As usual.
>At times, there >is entertainment value in their diatribes. The entertainment goes away when you are left with embarrassment. Lol.
> On your way, remember that >wearing eyeglasses, improper use of the eyes, and mental defects cause all >vision problems. Exactly. Investigate why is like this. Read the publications made by the discoverer of it. Understand what's written in there. TRY ON YOURSELF the full advice that is written in there, without being poisoned by unfounded beliefs and superstitions that these unfair businessmen try to cast upon you cunningly using your fear about losing your ability to see to fill their pockets with your money.
This is the real archaic way to do business. Middle-age stuff.
>Myopia can be prevented, and only engineers can understand >ophthalmic optics. Otis is wrong with his beliefs because all kind of glasses force the mind to a certain degree of refraction hindering the normal accommodation to take place. Prevention simply lays in the teaching of how not to use the eyes in the wrong way (i.e. interfering with them trying to see with a conscious/unconscious effort)
>Accommodation is controlled by the extraocular muscles, There are publications that describe scientifically how this could be proven. True scientist have to follow the scientific method and have to try to reproduce the same experiments in the same conditions to see if the results are the same. If the experiments could be reproduced with the same results, then there is something right in the writings. This hasn't be done. Why ? Because is of no interest of anyone in the field to do such a thing. The status quo is more than satisfactory to those unfair businessmen. Here in Italy the first company of the state is the producer of eyeglasses. Go figure!
>and cataracts, glaucoma and >all blindness can be cured by staring at the >sun. This is the usual crippled statement that someone that has not better arguments can put forth. Why are you crippling and generalizing everything instead of asking more about it ? This is the way an unfair businessmen dismiss things that are opposite to his interests: he exaggerates and distorts information taking it to extremes. No one said all blindness, no one said staring at the sun.
>To play the Minuet in G, you have only to THINK the Minuet in G. We know >this because Professor Harold Hill said so, 100 years ago. Certainly you have to think it if you want to play it ! Lol !!! Is it sufficient ? Probably not if you are not a musician, but if you have been trained to music you could easily play it thinking about it. In fact if you can even play it without thinking about it !
The accommodation theory that glasses sellers are using as scientific proof of their business being right are of a man called Herman Ludwig Ferdinand von Helmoltz born in 1821 and died in 1894.
The fact that he made important discoveries in other fields doesn't necessarily mean that he was right about the eyes also. This is again the authority principle and its fallacies.
-- "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes."
Dr. Leukoma - 29 Oct 2004 12:58 GMT I don't know how you sneaked through my filter, but back into the killfile you go.
DrG
>>> If the moderator of this newsgroup is reading I really >>> think you should do something about this. [quoted text clipped - 162 lines] > -- > "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes." Evaristo - 29 Oct 2004 17:14 GMT >I don't know how you sneaked through my filter, but back into the killfile >you go. Please explain the need to say it out loud. You want me in your killfile ?
Ok. Do it and be done!
I always use the same username and email address, so I don't sneak through anything.
Do you feel so much better in saying it out loud ?
Lol.
-- "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes."
Otis Brown - 29 Oct 2004 20:18 GMT Dear Evaristo, Rishi, Jan, Judy, and Tony,
Subject: Posting on "Med and Science".
I prefer to separate pure-scientific issues and questions, (i.e., how do all natural eye's behave when objectively tested.) from "medical" issues, i.e., what causes terrible "refractive errors", and similarly BIASED statements about the eye.
To refer to a "quick fix" method (that is understandable, under the circumstances) as pure-science is not wise -- nor is it pure science.
It is true that profoundly contradictory ideas exist about the behavior of the natural eyes -- and these issues COULD BE RESOLVED if we used neutral words to describe the natural eyes behavior.
This is indeed a un-moderated public form. Anyone loging on should read Bev's statement.
I provide engineering-scientific statements about the behavior of the natural eye -- which any competent engineer could check -- by running the OBJECTIVE experiment himself. (And I DO NOT MEAN A MEDICAL "EXPERIMENT".)
Indeed, any new scientific idea (including Max Planct, Einstein, Galileo, Kepler and Copernicus, have received incredible hostile reception -- at first.
Only because they were persistant, and had good reason to believe in their concept -- did there concept eventually replace the historic and (false) previous concept.
So I take the struggle for ideas and concepts to be fundamental to science (and obviously not medicine). The trick is to determine the difference -- and what standards you are going to use to judge scientific facts.
Best,
Otis Engineer
> >> If the moderator of this newsgroup is reading I really > >> think you should do something about this. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > emotional appeals. When asked to spot where they were, > you withdrew. The Real Bev - 29 Oct 2004 20:48 GMT I think we should post this weekly too, perhaps on Wednesday. Should I remove either of the names and replace them with 'Doc' and 'Reader' or something equally anonymous?
=============================================
> > If the moderator of this newsgroup is reading I really > > think you should do something about this. > > I came here looking for genuine information and end > > up listening to people with obvious mental illness.
> Like most public newsgroups, there is no moderator in sci.med.vision, nor > any means of censorship if such a position did exist. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > -MT, OD Evaristo - 29 Oct 2004 22:30 GMT >I think we should post this weekly too, perhaps on Wednesday. Should I >remove either of the names and replace them with 'Doc' and 'Reader' or >something equally anonymous? Post weekly the answers too.
=====================================================
>Like most public newsgroups, there is no moderator in sci.med.vision, nor >any means of censorship if such a position did exist. So, why you and others stand up as the pseudo-moderators ? Say your things and be done. If someone disagrees with you, please do not laugh at him/her, but answer or be quiet. This is the nature of and un-moderated newsgroup and of free-speech. Live and LET live.
>99% of the outrageous posts are from three individuals who have no formal >training in vision science or medicine. Since there are only three people that have doubts about the ability of the formal trained to CURE people from their eye problems then it means that the current vision science and medicine is right and the three people are wrong. Hmm that could be, but could be NOT. You quoted Asimoov without understanding what he was saying. Lol.
>Fortunately, their ad hominems, >false assumptions, and emotional appeals make them easy to spot. So easy that you avoid to do it ? Lol. You haven't read a book that you say has false assumptions and emotional appeals. When asked to spot where they were, you withdrew.
>If you stick around another day or two, you'll hear how vehemently they >assert their right to hijack the newsgroup with their own version of >"scientific truth". You would like to be the only one that can do this ?
>In the process, they will accuse you of stupidity, or at >least naivete, for agreeing with the medical establishment. When the medical establishment claims to be curing people when in fact is wandering in the dark, it is not an intelligent thing to do to follow their advice.
>You will become >part of the vast medical/optometric/optical conspiracy, whose members are >sworn to keep the truth hidden, in order to sell glasses and contacts and >laser surgery. There is no conscious conspiracy, but these people are not interested in curing people from their diseases, they are only interested in their business. Otherwise they would investigate why some cases don't fit their theories and methods.
>Periodically, we muster the energy to argue with them. But so far, nobody >has successfully discouraged them from using a sci.med newsgroup to denounce >what science and medicine consider conventional knowledge. Conventional knowledge about vision and eyes is wrong. Plain and simple. The records of the discovery of what is wrong was made available by the man that discovered it but conventional "scientists" avoid investigating and reproducing the experiments described in those publications. Why they avoid it ? Because it is of no use to anyone apart to the patients that are willing to give their money to anyone with a certain degree of authority, out of desperation about their condition, obviously.
>Either we are >misrepresenting science and medicine, or science and medicine are wrong and >we are fools for not agreeing with archaic and unfounded assertions. The original publications of that man are full of practical experiments to prove the following assertions that are mere descriptions of facts that can be observed by ANYONE replicates those experiments.
The archaic-ness point is weak if you think that your current beliefs about vision, accommodation and the like are WAY OLDER than these about the man that made the discoveries. Way older.
>It's sad to see you go, but I don't really see a solution. As usual.
>At times, there >is entertainment value in their diatribes. The entertainment goes away when you are left with embarrassment. Lol.
> On your way, remember that >wearing eyeglasses, improper use of the eyes, and mental defects cause all >vision problems. Exactly. Investigate why is like this. Read the publications made by the discoverer of it. Understand what's written in there. TRY ON YOURSELF the full advice that is written in there, without being poisoned by unfounded beliefs and superstitions that these unfair businessmen try to cast upon you cunningly using your fear about losing your ability to see to fill their pockets with your money.
This is the real archaic way to do business. Middle-age stuff.
>Myopia can be prevented, and only engineers can understand >ophthalmic optics. Otis is wrong with his beliefs because all kind of glasses force the mind to a certain degree of refraction hindering the normal accommodation to take place. Prevention simply lays in the teaching of how not to use the eyes in the wrong way (i.e. interfering with them trying to see with a conscious/unconscious effort)
>Accommodation is controlled by the extraocular muscles, There are publications that describe scientifically how this could be proven. True scientist have to follow the scientific method and have to try to reproduce the same experiments in the same conditions to see if the results are the same. If the experiments could be reproduced with the same results, then there is something right in the writings. This hasn't be done. Why ? Because is of no interest of anyone in the field to do such a thing. The status quo is more than satisfactory to those unfair businessmen. Here in Italy the first company of the state is the producer of eyeglasses. Go figure!
>and cataracts, glaucoma and >all blindness can be cured by staring at the >sun. This is the usual crippled statement that someone that has not better arguments can put forth. Why are you crippling and generalizing everything instead of asking more about it ? This is the way an unfair businessmen dismiss things that are opposite to his interests: he exaggerates and distorts information taking it to extremes. No one said all blindness, no one said staring at the sun.
>To play the Minuet in G, you have only to THINK the Minuet in G. We know >this because Professor Harold Hill said so, 100 years ago. Certainly you have to think it if you want to play it ! Lol !!! Is it sufficient ? Probably not if you are not a musician, but if you have been trained to music you could easily play it thinking about it. In fact if you can even play it without thinking about it !
The accommodation theory that glasses sellers are using as scientific proof of their business being right are of a man called Herman Ludwig Ferdinand von Helmoltz born in 1821 and died in 1894.
The fact that he made important discoveries in other fields doesn't necessarily mean that he was right about the eyes also. This is again the authority principle and its fallacies.
-- "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes."
Otis Brown - 30 Oct 2004 04:52 GMT Dear Bev,
I prefer this discussion group as it is.
You might identify the various people "takling" here -- and there interests.
I would certainly look at sci.med.vision for the scientific ideas I express. The names would be:
Jan - OD Judy - OD David - Ophthalmologist Evariston -- Bates Advocate Rish -- Bates Advocate Otis -- Prevention as a "second-opinion" advocate (Or the proven science of the natural eye's behavior if you prefer).
That might "clear the air".
Oh, and also, I don't call people "names" unless they directly insult me.
I state scientific facts clearly (concerning direct SCIENTIFIC measurements). I do not state MEDICAL facts -- since that tragically the work of a profound misconception of the natural eye's proven behavior.
Let us continue to "state our case" and work towards a better method of prevention based on the facts themselves, and not on all this conjecture.
Best,
Otis www.myopiafree.com
> I think we should post this weekly too, perhaps on Wednesday. Should I > remove either of the names and replace them with 'Doc' and 'Reader' or > something equally anonymous? The Real Bev - 30 Oct 2004 06:44 GMT > Dear Bev, > > I prefer this discussion group as it is. Nobody proposes changing it, but it gets tedious when newbies revive the same arguments that newbies have been reviving since Gore invented the internet.
 Signature Cheers, Bev = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 'Politics' comes from an ancient Greek word meaning 'many blood-sucking leeches.' -- Mark Russell
A Lieberman - 30 Oct 2004 13:30 GMT
> Oh, and also, I don't call people "names" unless > they directly insult me. Oh really Otis. WRONG AGAIN. How about using Google and look up our conversation about a definition of a child.
Sheeez, still can't get anything right!
> I state scientific facts clearly (concerning > direct SCIENTIFIC measurements). Probably not, since the doctors are able to provide unbiased websites supporting their position. I have yet to see you do this.
Allen
Rishi Giovanni Gatti - 30 Oct 2004 21:00 GMT > > I state scientific facts clearly (concerning > > direct SCIENTIFIC measurements). > > Probably not, since the doctors are able to provide unbiased websites > supporting their position. I have yet to see you do this. When you apply science to human beings something always cracks down.
Otis Brown - 31 Oct 2004 18:47 GMT Dear Rishi and Allen,
Allen defines the "majority opinion" web sites to be "un-biased", and therefore all SCIENTIFIC web sites MUST BE BIASED.
Oh, yeah! Jeeze.
In many, perhaps most cases, the medical person has no choice but to follow the tradition of the last 400 years.
But to elevate a tradition of of the "quick fix" (which we all understand) as "science", is not reasonable.
I think Bates was absoluty half-right. He was right about the (now proven) effect that the minus lens has on the refractive state of all natural eyes. (i.e., your vision is 20/50, and you wear a over-prescribed minus lens, and you can EXPECT your vison to go to 20/200 in a short time.)
But I think he did not go far enough.
Rishi and Evaristo recommend various "understandings" of Bates.
I advocate a complete discussion about the concept that all natural eyes are "dynamic" in the sense that the control their refractive (status) to their average visual enviroment. This is a scientific (not medical) stement, since it is open to direct testing (on animals).
The fact that these ODs (particularly Judy and Jan) can so totally trash such direct factual and scientific truth -- is beyond men.
But that is the issues we should be exploring on this sited -- the difference between pure science and pure facts, and the "twisting" of words to force-fit facts onto the failed Donders-Helmholtz theory.
But that is the issue for our pleasant discussion.
Look for the quality of your intellect to solve this problem.
Best,
Otis www.myopiafree.com
> > > I state scientific facts clearly (concerning > > > direct SCIENTIFIC measurements). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > When you apply science to human beings something always cracks down. Evaristo - 29 Oct 2004 10:33 GMT >Mmm.. > >If the moderator of this newsgroup is reading I really think you should do >something about this. >I came here looking for genuine information and end up listening to people >with obvious mental illness. More name calling by our not-so-resident new one that thinks that the unfair businessmen will solve his problems.
-- "It is not faith that cures, but a proper use of the eyes."
Dan Leung - 29 Oct 2004 16:31 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > eye easily so gave up. A few months back I decided to bite the bullet and > give it another go. I'm anxious sort too, that is why I been wearing glass for over 30 years and now I'm trying out soft contact, should have done that earlier.
> The good news is that I stuck with it and can now pop them in and out fairly > easily. However I haven't really built my wear time up beyond 3 hours since [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > move well when I blink. Also, my eyes don't get red when the contacts feel > uncomfortable. I'm not an expert as I'm new to contact. Does your doctor give you a timetable to build up your wearing time. Mine is like 2 hours per day for a couple days, then, 4 hours for the next 2 days, and so on to build up until I can waer 12 hours per day, if you have a rest day at 6 hours, then go form 6 hours day for 2 days before moving on. I found inserting and taking off is not that difficult for me, On the 4th day, I can insert and remove on the first attampt.
> To be honest I think its to do with a story I heard about someone having a > contact lens stuck and having to have it removed at the hospital with some > kind of spatula. This has me worried a little so i'm a bit reticient about > keeping them in for longer than a few hours. If you are uncertain the lens got stuck, wash you hand with soap and water, then touch the lens and move it slightly in your eye. this is just my idea. I don't know if this is a good idea, I like to play with my contacts when I first got it. Also , I mistaking waer it inside out one time in one eye and got very unconfortable. Oh, the trainer told me, if I nap with my contact on, it will become dry and hard to remove, just put a couple drops of rinse solution into my eye and wait a while, then it should loosen up.
I am wearing Aspheric from cooper vision
Hope this help
Dan
Tony McBride - 31 Oct 2004 18:54 GMT Thanks for the information Dan,
Its nice to hear something that answers some of my concerns rather than the deluge of previous postings :)
Tony
> > Hi, > > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Dan
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