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Medical Forum / General / Vision / May 2004The Work of an Optometrist
1) What is the work of an optometrist like? From getting my eyes checked, I know they check patient's eyes and write prescriptions but what other stuff do optometrists do? 2) Does it get repetitive and boring after several years? 3) How much do Optometrists really make? 4) Are there certain settings that are considered more or less prestigious or reputable to work in (i.e. LensCrafter, Walmart, opthalmologist office, private practice)? Dear Qs-NoName, For a candid discussion about what optometrists think about "optometry" you would enjoy reading: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/optometrysucks/ A little bit "sour" but the truth. In addition: > 1) What is the work of an optometrist like? From getting my eyes > checked, I know they check patient's eyes and write prescriptions but > what other stuff do optometrists do? The to "tonometry" check "pressure" in the eye for normal. The check the fundus (retina). The look for all eye diseases. etc. > 2) Does it get repetitive and boring after several years? Read "optometry sucks". > 3) How much do Optometrists really make? Depends. 80 to 120 K is a reasonable range. Remember, they paid 160K for four years in OD school AFTER COLLEGE. Like the rest of us, they must pay for their student loans. > 4) Are there certain settings that are considered more or less > prestigious or reputable to work in (i.e. LensCrafter, Walmart, > opthalmologist office, private practice)? Yes, as discussed on "optometrysucks". In addition there are many things that they must pay for just to get into practice. It is a very expensive proposition. Sometimes they buy into an established practics. These are the issues they face. There is nothing that is "easy" about any of this. I am certain the ODs on this discussion group will add their commentary. I have many friends in both medicine and optometry. I do not agree with explicit statements they make concerning the dynamic behavior of the natural eye (and I use exact words to describe what I measure) but then I will never "practice" optometry. Best, Otis Engineer Optometrysucks is a group founded by one doctor, who doesn't like working at Walmart, or wherever the hell he works. Two or three other people have grumbled the same thing. I would hardly say that that group accurately reflects the sentiments of the average OD out there. nipidoc > Dear Qs-NoName, > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > Otis > Engineer > Optometrysucks is a group founded by one doctor, who doesn't like > working at Walmart, or wherever the hell he works. Two or three other [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > nipidoc I also looked at that group and thought the same thing. It does not accurately reflect my attitude toward my profession. Too much variety and challenge to get bored. I once had a heart-to-heart with a retinal specialist who opined about how frustrating it was to have to see old people go blind every day. It's not all about "one or two." DrG >> Dear Qs-NoName, >> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >> Otis >> Engineer Dear Nipidoc and DrL, Why do not both of you respond to QS's questions rather than complaining about "optometrysucks". I am certain he is more interested in what you have to say. Best, Otis ***** > > Optometrysucks is a group founded by one doctor, who doesn't like > > working at Walmart, or wherever the hell he works. Two or three other [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > DrG I am not complaining about "optometry sucks," but responding to "nipidoc's" comments about your post about "optometry sucks." Why did you bring it up, then, if not to stir up the hornet's nest? DrG > Dear Nipidoc and DrL, > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> >> DrG > I am not complaining about "optometry sucks," but responding to "nipidoc's" > comments about your post about "optometry sucks." Why did you bring it up, > then, if not to stir up the hornet's nest? > > DrG Dear DrG, QS asked an honest question about what optometrists "think" about optometry -- the good, the bad, the ugly. QS can now read "optometry sucks", and your fine judgment about the nature of optometry. The two opinions are now clear to him. If you think I have "stirred up a hornet's nest, then you have something to worry about. QS and others can make that judgment. Best, Otis Dear Otis, You have demonstrated over and over again, that you are seriously mistaken about a great number of things, the least of which is the profession of optometry. But, I am always ready to set the record straight, and am always more than happy to do so. DrG >> I am not complaining about "optometry sucks," but responding to >> "nipidoc's" comments about your post about "optometry sucks." Why [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Otis Otis-- you are the one that suggested that QS read optometrysucks and you also stated that it is the truth. You are not an optometrist nor are you particularly well versed in the science of vision, vision research, medicine, or physiological optics. It is you who have detracted from the questions originally posed by QS. You have a generally argumentative and negative approach to all your posts when discussing clinical optics. Lets not discuss optometrysucks because it is just another bitching forum just like many others that could be named bushsucks, democratssuck, lifesucks, godsucks, opticalengineerssuck, etc. Regards, RM Ph.D. O.D. ------------- > Dear Otis, > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > > Otis I wasn't complaining about it at all. I was merely pointing out that that message board is basically the creation of one disgruntled doctor, with one or two other people who half heartedly agreed. It hardly represents the feeling of the average optometrist out there. nipidoc > Dear Nipidoc and DrL, > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > DrG > Yes, as discussed on "optometrysucks". In addition > there are many things that they must pay for > just to get into practice. It is a very expensive This technique of putting high requests of money to enter the practice remembers me of MULTI-LEVEL-MARKETING, where you have to pay for enter. Only doing this you can be trained PSYCHOLOGICALLY to SELL to idiot people or fools (average customers) eyeglasses or other injuring things that do not solve any problem but create an addiction to have them changed once in a whila... If you look well at the facts, the conspiracy is very clear. Thanks Otis for your response. I read through optometrysucks and was really surprised at how unhappy people are with the profession. I wonder how representative this is of the OD population. It seems like it's not really the work itself that bothers people but the work arrangement and schedule. Would you (and other ODs) agree? I wonder if it gets repetitive after awhile... The 80-120k range does seem pretty high but I guess there are a lot of things one would need to pay. Do you know if that salary increases as you gain more experience or does it plateau out in a certain number of years? Places like LensCrafter and Walmart...do they compensate you more for being more experienced? I always wondered what LensCrafter and Walmart mean when they say the OD is independent. Does that mean the OD is self-employed and is not an employee of those companies? How do they get paid? Who gets the fee the patient pays? Thanks. > Dear Qs-NoName, > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > Otis > Engineer > Thanks Otis for your response. I read through optometrysucks and was > really surprised at how unhappy people are with the profession. I > wonder how representative this is of the OD population. I think that nearly every professional can find something they don't like about some aspect of their profession. Medical doctors are now burdened with managed care and high malpractice insurance costs, working harder, getting paid less. > It seems like it's not really the work itself that bothers people but > the work arrangement and schedule. Would you (and other ODs) agree? > I wonder if it gets repetitive after awhile... Chain opticals and Walmarts provide an entry level job for many optometrists. Many of them choose to stay once they have built-up their practices. I know of at least on O.D. who became wealthy overnight by virtue of the lottery, but still continues to practice in the mall for a chain. > The 80-120k range does seem pretty high but I guess there are a lot of > things one would need to pay. Do you know if that salary increases as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > an employee of those companies? How do they get paid? Who gets the > fee the patient pays? Many states have laws barring the direct corporate control of a medical, dental, or optometric practice. Indeed, optometry was one of the professions that succumbed rather early to the corporate model. Ideally, the professional is supposed to adhere to a rigid code of ethics, and not made decisions to the tune of the corporate piper. To this end, the corporates go to great lengths to counter the perception that the optometrist is directly employed. In reality, the corporation controls the working conditions by renting office space to the optometrist, and charging below market rates for rent. The leases typically have clauses providing for quick termination at the will of either party. DrG > Thanks Otis for your response. I read through optometrysucks and was > really surprised at how unhappy people are with the profession. I > wonder how representative this is of the OD population. I'm just a patient, but every OD I've met over the years was very happy to be an OD. > The 80-120k range does seem pretty high but I guess there are a lot of > things one would need to pay. I don't think it seems high, especially considering that it requires a graduate degree. Also, when quoting pay, generally expenses are deducted first. An independent OD who has an income of US$120,000 would have had all expenses deducted first, resulting in a remainder of that amount. An OD who worked for someone else and reported a salary of US$80,000 is probably reporting salary before expenses, but the expenses would be minimal, since the expenses of running the office would be paid by whoever pays the salary. > I always wondered what LensCrafter and Walmart mean when they say the > OD is independent. Does that mean the OD is self-employed and is not > an employee of those companies? How do they get paid? Who gets the > fee the patient pays? My brother has relatives in the eye business. He says that state law (California) prohibits opticians from hiring ODs. One of his relatives is an optician with both an optical shop and an OD office. She used to hire ODs, but she didn't get along with them and usually fired them. One disgruntled OD turned her in and the OD then working for her had his license to practice revoked. So she hired an OMD instead. He didn't actually work there, but hired ODs to do the work. Most of the customers in the OD office weren't interested in eye health. They had gone to the optical shop and bought glasses, and were told they had to go upstairs and get a current prescription. The main requirement for the OD was that they speak fluent Chinese, as all of the customers I ever saw in the entire huge shopping center were Chinese, some of whom spoke no English.  SignatureDan Abel Sonoma State University AIS dabel@sonic.net Q1: Different optometrists may have different specialties, and their practice may be limited to only low vision, vision therapy, or specialty contact lenses, but in general, optometrists also diagnose and manage a variety of eye diseases from the mundane conjunctivitis, to the more serious glaucomas. Many optometrists will also monitor for ocular manifestations of systemic diseases, the most common being diabetes. Q2: I have not found it to be boring and repetitive because the field is constantly changing. I think that some of the tediousness stems from dealing with managed care organizations and the ever increasing amount of paperwork involved in health care. Occasionally a patient will "flip out" because their insurance may not cover something that they expected to be covered, and that can be annoying. Q3: This is a tough question to answer. Really, it depends. Optometrists who work in academia, or the government (such as the VA system) are generally paid poorly though the benefits can be good. (Government jobs tend to be like the Pope, a job for life.) Some optomtrists who work in industry (eg. doing research for contact lens R &D) are paid similar to other research scientists. Optometrists who are employed by other doctors make a bit more. The highest paid ones are the ones who own their own practice. A successful private practice can easily generate a 6 figure income. Q4: This is also a tough question. The public will generally perceive a private practitioner in a slightly more favorable light than someone who works for Lenscrafters or Walmart. However, I don't think this is also true from a reputation standpoint. There are good and bad doctors in all modes of optometric practice. nipidoc > 1) What is the work of an optometrist like? From getting my eyes > checked, I know they check patient's eyes and write prescriptions but [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > prestigious or reputable to work in (i.e. LensCrafter, Walmart, > opthalmologist office, private practice)? > Q3: This is a tough question to answer. Really, it depends. Optometrists > who work in academia, [snip] are > generally paid poorly though the benefits can be good. I don't know about ODs, so I'll have to take your word for it. Many years ago (like 30) I was a student at the University of Washington in Seattle. There was an article about the salary structure at the university. There was some sort of rule (maybe a state law, because it was inflexible) that the President made the most, and no employee could make more than their boss. This is how it works IRL, too, so it was usually reasonable. There were two problems. As nipidoc says, academia generally pays poorly. However, at a big school, football is Big Business. The football coaches are paid a lot more than most employees. That would break the rule. So, they gave the coach the title of Director of Athletics, with the sole job duty of football coach. On the organizational chart, he had a subordinate with a lesser title, whose job duties were to run the entire athletic program, including football! The other problem was the MDs. There was a large medical school, and the tradition in the US is that medical schools and their associated teaching hospitals, have the finest MDs that money can buy. The top doctors could only be attracted by offering more than the President made. That also would break the rule. So, the top doctors were offered a salary in line with the org chart. Those doctors saw patients as part of their duties. Even though the university paid all of the expenses for seeing those patients, the university turned around and gave those patient fees to the doctors! Even though the university was paying those top doctors more than the President, those patient fees were not recorded on the books as salary, thus a salary run from the computer showed those doctors as receiving much less than they actually did. SignatureDan Abel Sonoma State University AIS dabel@sonic.net > 1) What is the work of an optometrist like? From getting my eyes > checked, I know they check patient's eyes and write prescriptions but > what other stuff do optometrists do? Extremely varied. As you may or may not realize, optometrists are primary care providers. In my own practice situation, I see, diagnose, and treat a very diverse range of problems- from treating glaucoma to removing foreign bodies to punctal occlusion and so on. Refractions are but a small part of the daily routine as Dr. Leukoma, Dr. Judy and others can attest. You may of read of the post where Dr. Leukoma timely diagnosed a choriodal tumor. It's not an uncommon occurrence for an optometrist to be the point person in diagnosing these types of problems. And in my setting, I interact with allergists, neurologists, dermatologists, internal meds, pediatricians, and others on a very regular basis. > 2) Does it get repetitive and boring after several years? I've been in practice since '85 and I don't find it so. It all depends on how much effort one puts into any career or job. I'm not afraid to say I still learn new things on a regular basis and that keeps it fresh. Again, O.D.'s just don't perform refractions- I do a lot of medically indicated contact lens fits (post pk-corneal transplants, keratoconus etc) as well as treat a lot of pathology. My colleague does a lot of pediatrics. On the other hand, I have a friend who is a dentist that simply despises his situation (despite the income he's making) and is counting down to the day he can retire. At this point, I don't feel that way at all. > 3) How much do Optometrists really make? I don't know what the implication of the phrase "really make" means but it does vary depending on part of the country (assuming it's the U.S.), type of practice, how long one has been in practice, etc. You can find that information on a number of web sites but the average I believe is in the $120 k range. Someone else here can correct me if I'm off base. > 4) Are there certain settings that are considered more or less > prestigious or reputable to work in (i.e. LensCrafter, Walmart, > opthalmologist office, private practice)? Private practice types (group, solo) tend to be looked upon as more "reputable" than the commercial (ie. "chains"). But I know of many in the chains that are as astute and competent as any in the private setting. I believe it's not where you practice but how you practice that can make the difference. frank |
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