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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / February 2008

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Should I Continue To Run with Arthritis?

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The High Council - 27 Nov 2007 18:45 GMT
Hi guys,

I am 39 years old - was a regular runner (every other day / 5 miles or
so) - suddenly started getting bad pain in my right hip area. Stopped
running and waited to see if it would ease away - instead it just
stayed there. I went to the GP - was sent up for an X Ray - now I am
told I have arthritis in both hips joints! The doc says I can take
anti inflammatory tablets to help with the pain, and thats it. I am
waiting to see a physiotherapist but its NHS so the wait is long.

It came as a real shock to be told this - my question is - has anyone
here been a runner and had this happen to them? Can anyone tell me if
they think its a good idea for me to still continue to run (obviously
taking it easy) as I hate swimming and I can't afford a bike. Or would
running make things worse?

I suffer from depression too and running was one of my coping
mechanisms so it was important for me.

Cheers and best wishes.
LM
Alan Fisher - 27 Nov 2007 19:16 GMT
> Hi guys,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Cheers and best wishes.
> LM

Hi LM - me, I wouldn't continue running 'cos of its percussive action on the
joints.  Then again I was never a running bloke: I did it for about a year
when i was uhhhhhhhhh mid-30s I suppose, and it murdered me, really - until
RA came along I'd never been as unfit as when I ran twice a week.  That'd
have been down to my action, I guess.

Aaaaanyway: someone brighter than me will be along in a minute to give you
better advice, but for me, no, I'd quit running right away.  There are other
forms of exercise that are easier on the system and are beneficial to the
stricken body:  I'd bet the rest of the group are sick of my batting on
about Yoga, but it's good and it's brought me on a hell of a lot.  Good for
the bonce, too, so long as you turn the sound down on your dvd so you can't
hear that pigawful music that they seem to consider an essential part of the
experience.

I'll leave it to the better qualified for now but in the meantime, welcome,
sorry you have to be here but glad you found us.

G'wan Piggy: do your stuff mate.................step in.

Cheers

AF
Spider Pig - 27 Nov 2007 19:30 GMT
>Hi guys,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Cheers and best wishes.
>LM

Good luck and do talk to the physio terrorist when you get to the top
of the list, most know their stuff so listen to them.

Here is some other info for you:

"There are two types of exercise that you need to do. Firstly,
strengthening exercise will improve the strength and tone of the
muscles that act over your osteoarthritic joint (for example, the
front thigh muscle, or quadriceps, for knee osteoarthritis). This
helps to stabilise and protect osteoarthritic joints and reduces the
pain. Such strengthening exercise also reduces your risk of falling
over, a common problem in older people. Secondly, any exercise that
increases your pulse rate and makes you breathless (aerobic exercise)
can also reduce your pain and allow you to do more. Regular aerobic
exercise encourages a better night's sleep and is very good for your
general health and well-being. Regularly undertaking both forms of
exercise can greatly help people with osteoarthritis, and over several
months can relieve pain and improve movement."

This was taken from an ARC leaflet here:

http://www.arc.org.uk/arthinfo/patpubs/6025/6025.asp

more:

"Osteoarthritis of the hip affects men as much as women and often
starts in the 40s, 50s and 60s. It may affect one or both hips. The
risk is increased in farmers. Sometimes hip problems at birth or
childhood (congenital dislocation or abnormal development such as
Perthes' disease) may later lead to osteoarthritis. However, in many
people there is no obvious cause.

The hip joint is below the groin, and hip pain is usually felt mainly
in the front of the groin, but sometimes around the side and front of
the thigh, the buttock or down to the knee (so-called radiated pain).

In severe osteoarthritis of the hip, the affected leg may get a little
shorter due to the bone on either side of the joint being 'crunched
up'. As mentioned above, for some unexplained reason people of Chinese
and Afro-Caribbean origin rarely get osteoarthritis of the hip joint."

Have you started on NSAIDs yet?(Non Steriodal Anti Inflam Drugs) what
you doc called anti inflams. Talk with your doc over the dose. With
ones like Voltarol you can get 50mg tabs or 75mg tabs to a max of
150mg per day. Thus I'd start on 50mg up to 3 times a day as required
and progress to 2x75mg, but your doc should advise.

The ARC booklet also talks about good trainers (air type) which you
may have as a runner?
And you no doubt know that running on grass has less impact than
running on tarmac.

I'm sure others will have their say also, but good luck and don't over
do things.

SP
The High Council - 27 Nov 2007 22:07 GMT
Thanks to both of you for your kind advice.
I'm still a bit confused as to whether or not I should run.

Also - I read Sir Ranulph Fiennes book and he said he has arthritis
but takes a diet of molasses and cider vinegar and he has been able to
continue to run marathons and go on explorations to polar regions etc
without any major discomfort.

Anyone tried this diet?

Thanks again - you are very kind.

>>Hi guys,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>
>SP
Robin Fairbairns - 28 Nov 2007 09:34 GMT
>Thanks to both of you for your kind advice.
>I'm still a bit confused as to whether or not I should run.

i thought the advice was rather clear: don't.  (but then, i've not
been able to run, more than the odd sprint for a bus, for 30 years
... long before i had a diagnosis of arthritis.)

>Also - I read Sir Ranulph Fiennes book and he said he has arthritis
>but takes a diet of molasses and cider vinegar and he has been able to
>continue to run marathons and go on explorations to polar regions etc
>without any major discomfort.
>
>Anyone tried this diet?

to first order, crazy people (such as fiennes) do crazy things.  i had
no idea he had arthritis, but i somehow doubt he has oa in the hips,
such as you do.  don't fall into the trap of following strange diets
recommended by others: while a cup of sweet and sour sauce every
morning sounds attractive, it would be a great surprise if it did you
any measurable good.

>Thanks again - you are very kind.

it's a property of the group.  we're all in this together.

fwiw, i cycle everywhere around the town.  but the town is _flat_, so
it's no big deal (the docs call my 40-min commute "light exercise).

i spent £20 on the first bike i bought for myself (second hand) and it
lasted 15 years.  what do you do for transport, if you can't afford a
bike?  or is your location very steep (i wouldn't want to cycle
everywhere in bristol, where i used to live, for example.)
Signature

Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

The High Council - 28 Nov 2007 14:06 GMT
Thanks Robin,

I'm a bit slow on the uptake I'm afraid. Some people are advising to
continue running but on grass with good trainers but maybe to a lesser
extent you see - there lay my confusion.

Your bike was £20 you say. That sounds excellent. I may look into
that.

The diet Sir Ranuph Fiennes takes is based on Margaret Hills Cure
apparently? Clearly you sound very doubtful and I can understand that
viewpoint, but looking online there did seem to be quite a few people
reporting success with it.

Thanks again for your time.

LM

>>Thanks to both of you for your kind advice.
>>I'm still a bit confused as to whether or not I should run.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>bike?  or is your location very steep (i wouldn't want to cycle
>everywhere in bristol, where i used to live, for example.)
Sandy Morton - 28 Nov 2007 16:20 GMT
> Your bike was £20 you say. That sounds excellent. I may look into
> that.

£20 can be too expensive - watch for your local police lost property
clearance sale. Or watch for a bike shop closing down - I sold 160
ex-hire bikes at the beginning of the year and the most I got was £20
- the kids I felt sorry for get theirs for nowt.
Spider Pig - 29 Nov 2007 07:05 GMT
>Thanks Robin,
>
>I'm a bit slow on the uptake I'm afraid. Some people are advising to
>continue running but on grass with good trainers but maybe to a lesser
>extent you see - there lay my confusion.

Some people simply quoted from the ARC leaflet and also pointed out
that running on grass has less impact than tarmac.
Please don't follow anyones advise here, consider it yes, discuss it
yes, comment on it yes, no problem, but the only advise you should
readily take is that of fully trained health professionals.
What did your Doctor say about you continuing running? did you ask
him/her? You said you have other issues to consider as you considered
running a coping devise, so really the Doctor needs to answer more
fully than just take anti inflams. If you feel like it post and let us
know what the Doctor said, when you have spoken to him/her more in
depth.

SP
tony sayer - 29 Nov 2007 10:06 GMT
In article <1josk35cvotv5f73taed0t5imh3mnl808m@aol.com>, Spider Pig
<me@privacy.net> scribeth thus

>>Thanks Robin,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Some people simply quoted from the ARC leaflet and also pointed out
>that running on grass has less impact than tarmac.

I would expect it does. I seem to remember reading somewhere on a
respected Arthur site that it wasn't much more stressful than walking..

>Please don't follow anyones advise here, consider it yes, discuss it
>yes, comment on it yes, no problem, but the only advise you should
>readily take is that of fully trained health professionals.

Yeabut sometimes they get it wrong like the idiot doctor who
misdiagnosed my blood pressure condition for years which gave me
terrible migraines  before someone else, a non medic, urged me to get it
checked which I did at another practice and within Two days of treatment
seemed to me like a miracle cure and I really felt I'd got my life back
again:)

However theres nothing wrong asking here from peeps who do suffer from
these awful maladies who do have a lot of first hand experience and in
some ways thats very valuable too!..

>What did your Doctor say about you continuing running? did you ask
>him/her? You said you have other issues to consider as you considered
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>SP

I think sometimes you need to make yourself almost a bit of a nuisance
to get the treatment/advice you need for yourself. You in many ways have
to take charge of it all and in a way you can feel a bit better from
that...
Signature

Tony Sayer

Spider Pig - 29 Nov 2007 14:26 GMT
>I think sometimes you need to make yourself almost a bit of a nuisance
>to get the treatment/advice you need for yourself. You in many ways have
>to take charge of it all and in a way you can feel a bit better from
>that...

That is true in some areas, that is one good thing this NG brings to
the front on many occasions, the differences in treatment styles in
different areas of the UK.

SP
Alan Fisher - 28 Nov 2007 20:27 GMT
> >Also - I read Sir Ranulph Fiennes book and he said he has arthritis
> >but takes a diet of molasses and cider vinegar and he has been able to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> morning sounds attractive, it would be a great surprise if it did you
> any measurable good.

I was going to say sommat similar, along the lines of "Yebbut he also walks
to the poles on his own - never take a lead from demonstrably crazy people",
but then I thought (OK I'll let Piggy supply the punchline).

Diet, mind you: anyone else watch what they eat to an almost obsessive
standard?  As in, do I feel better or worse than yesterday, and can I put
the change down to that new brand of yoghurt/extra helping of chips/dingy
veg pack that I ate etc?

Oh - just me then.  Ah.

Cheers

AF
tony sayer - 27 Nov 2007 23:13 GMT
In article <q1pok3dd4n443113r42r016b9nfclalhg5@4ax.com>, The High
Council <TheHighCouncil@TheCapitol.co.uk> scribeth thus
>Hi guys,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Cheers and best wishes.
>LM

I am not an expert by any means but were you told that you had Osteo
arthritis or Rheumatoid arthritis as although there a bit different in
effect one is due to worn knackerd cartilage and possible bone on bone
contact, and the other is due to inflammation of the joint.

Just more out of curiosity as you didn't state which type it was..

Would a bike be really be -that- expensive?.
Signature

Tony Sayer

The High Council - 28 Nov 2007 00:52 GMT
>Just more out of curiosity as you didn't state which type it was..

Well, I haven't been tested for RA so I am assuming it is OA at the
moment. Although my mother had RA and unfortunately died of a hospital
infection after she had a hip replacement :-(

>Would a bike be really be -that- expensive?.

Unfortunately yes as I have literally no income myself at the moment
and I cannot claim any benefits.

Thanks for your reply.
Alan Fisher - 28 Nov 2007 20:32 GMT
> >Just more out of curiosity as you didn't state which type it was..
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks for your reply.

Our kid has worked around bicycles all his adult life and spends his happy
leisure hours falling off one, usually after a short burst of charging
downhill on it, dodging trees on the way.  HE would say that a cheap bike
costs about eight squillion quid.  Me, I dunno: OK, Group Confession........
I've never owned a bike, and can't ride one.  We were a bit skint when I was
a kid, not that I knew it at the time.  Can't swim either, 'cos I'm a bit
crap.

AF
Sandy Morton - 28 Nov 2007 23:47 GMT
> Can't swim either, 'cos I'm a bit crap.

Alan - I have the biggest swimming pool in the world across the road
- when I was young (some memory) and not working it was too cold to
try!  Now my weight is a wee (big) bit of a problem.
Robin Fairbairns - 29 Nov 2007 18:03 GMT
>> Can't swim either, 'cos I'm a bit crap.
>
>Alan - I have the biggest swimming pool in the world across the road
>- when I was young (some memory) and not working it was too cold to
>try!  

i used to swim a lot.  it was about the only sporting thing i could do
even moderately well, at school.  (though i used to play rugby a bit,
i rapidly rose to the level of my incompetence.)

i've occasionally done it since i grew up, mostly when feeling
isolated and in need of an anonymous sort of activity.  (my kids
wanted to go to a health centre in their teens, and i went along for a
bit before i decided i couldn't stand it ... no getting a mouthful of
water as an excuse for not continuing a conversation.)

>Now my weight is a wee (big) bit of a problem.

it's only really a problem if you let it be.  the actual swimming ...
staying afloat in water ... isn't affected by your weight, really.
(i've put a lot on since i was a regular swimmer at school, too.)

so it's really a question of whether you feel you fancy trying it.
there's no need for an excuse ... which is a good thing since the one
you tried doesn't work ;-)
Signature

Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

Kay Robinson - 28 Nov 2007 11:38 GMT
>Hi guys,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Cheers and best wishes.
>LM

Hi. I've been a climber/walker/fell runner and caver most of my life
but after an immune system illness contracted OA in my hips, ankles,
one knee, upper and lower spine and left shoulder. Now I can hardly
walk a few yards. I persisted in forcing myself to continue walking
for some years and blame this for the increase in my lack of mobility.

Incidently, the places affected all relate to places where I've had
injuries over the years, all acquired via my outdoor activities.

Personally I'd suggest lighter exercise, keep off the heavy stuff.

Kay

--
All replies to newsgroup thank you
Alan Fisher - 28 Nov 2007 20:33 GMT
> >LM
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> --
Yeh - that's the stuff.  Read    ^^^^ that ^^^^    twice.

Cheers

AF
Harvey R. Stone - 29 Nov 2007 23:52 GMT
No,,,,  You do not even have enough money to get good help from a doctor or
doctors.    You want to gamble with being in a wheelchair for the rest of
your life......  Welllll, run all you can stand and to hell with
tomorrow,,,, we can blame that on someone else.
Harv

> Hi guys,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Cheers and best wishes.
> LM
The High Council - 30 Nov 2007 00:11 GMT
>No,,,,  You do not even have enough money to get good help from a doctor or
>doctors.    You want to gamble with being in a wheelchair for the rest of
>your life......  Welllll, run all you can stand and to hell with
>tomorrow,,,, we can blame that on someone else.
>Harv

Harv, I don't care much for the tone of that post.
Running for me is very important indeed as it is a coping mechanism
for my clinical depression. I appreciate the potential dangers I now
must take on board as regards my future living with arthritis, however
I am not being unreasonable in asking other sufferer's advice on the
matter as I have been advised by others (including my doctor) to
continue running but with close monitoring.

Please don't project your own frustrations onto me.

With respect.
LM
tony sayer - 30 Nov 2007 10:07 GMT
In article <rrkuk3dhq8ofg1atr67p049emr0kqit6s2@4ax.com>, The High
Council <TheHighCouncil@TheCapitol.co.uk> scribeth thus

>>No,,,,  You do not even have enough money to get good help from a doctor or
>>doctors.    You want to gamble with being in a wheelchair for the rest of
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>With respect.
>LM

Can you really not find the money for a bike?..

Signature

Tony Sayer

The High Council - 30 Nov 2007 12:06 GMT
>Can you really not find the money for a bike?..

Hi Tony,

I have no income at all. Not even benefits (very long and frustrating
story). I am dependant on my long term partner who is willing and able
to support me.

She has said that after reading these posts and seeing that some bikes
can be very cheap she is happy to look into it.

Thanks for your help.
tony sayer - 30 Nov 2007 14:03 GMT
In article <mtuvk3tjgkpnpsa35b555i6osdo860s5n1@4ax.com>, The High
Council <TheHighCouncil@TheCapitol.co.uk> scribeth thus

>>Can you really not find the money for a bike?..
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Thanks for your help.

Good for you and her:)
Signature

Tony Sayer

John Colloff - 06 Dec 2007 20:15 GMT
>>Can you really not find the money for a bike?..

>I have no income at all. Not even benefits (very long and frustrating
>story). I am dependant on my long term partner who is willing and able
>to support m

Try looking in regularly at your local tip, you will be amazed at what
people throw out.
After buying a new tyre for my bike, whilst tipping garden waste I saw
a complete good wheel with an excellent tyre being junked.

Last year I gave a rusty old folding bike to a friend for his canal
boat as it was just too much trouble to clean it up for sale.

He is happy to use it regularly.

Why not try that free swapping scheme?  Freecycle is it called, there
is a web page thar gives locations to reuse other people's junk.
mymail@hotmail.com - 17 Feb 2008 00:23 GMT
>Why not try that free swapping scheme?  Freecycle is it called, there
>is a web page thar gives locations to reuse other people's junk.
This is a good scheme I am a member of ours but it has a serious and
sort of embarrassing flow in it in my opinion .
Ok say I put up for grabs my laptop which cost me over four hundred
quid two years ago which I hardly use anymore you email me a
and ask for it ok no problem you come along and I give it to you end
of story .
What I object to are the very cheeky people in my opinion who have the
nerve to send wanted adds to free cycle groups asking for very
expensive items like laptops,washing machines and the like I honestly
do not think WANTED adds should even be allowed on free cycle if I
want to give something no matter what no problem .
A couple of years ago now we where about to BUY a new gas cooker and a
nearly new one came up on our group and it was nearly nearly new only
a couple of months old needless to say it is in our kitchen now but
there is no way would I have had the gaul to ask for one .
ravi - 14 Dec 2007 09:13 GMT
On Nov 30, 5:06 pm, The High Council <TheHighCoun...@TheCapitol.co.uk>
wrote:
> >Can you really not find the money for a bike?..
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks for your help.

I am Ravichandren from India.I discovered one different type of herbal
based treatment.It cures all types of arthritis.Past 5 years Iwas
givind this treatment freely on service basis.More details please
condact kamalisethu@yahoo.co.in    or please visit www.curewithherbs.info
Robin Fairbairns - 30 Nov 2007 10:17 GMT
[angry with an unkind response he's received]
>Running for me is very important indeed as it is a coping mechanism
>for my clinical depression.

a good reason to be investigating every avenue.

>I appreciate the potential dangers I now
>must take on board as regards my future living with arthritis, however
>I am not being unreasonable in asking other sufferer's advice on the
>matter as I have been advised by others (including my doctor) to
>continue running but with close monitoring.

i'm not sure i had picked that (input from the doctor) up from your
earlier posts.  i _think_ (without going back to check) that i said
summat like "be careful", which almost matches what the doctor said.

i also said (and i continue to believe) that "magic cures", like the
sweet and sour sauce one, should be viewed with a deeply sceptical
eye.  arthritis is such a curse, that anyone who goes into remission
naturally tends to encourage others to join them in whatever odd thing
they do, that seems to help.  there's an awful lot of different things
that "seem to help" an awful lot of people, and i'm sure you could
find a whole bunch of such things if you were to go looking.  i've
certainly been told over the years of all sorts of dietary changes i
might try.  and, when i've deigned to try any of them, they've made no
difference whatever.

but then, i've never tried any of them under clinically controlled
conditions, so i've no idea whether any of them actually do help
anyone (even though the didn't help me).

(the only clinical trial i've ever taken part in, is to do with the
cancer that i had excised last year.)
Signature

Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

Spider Pig - 30 Nov 2007 11:50 GMT
>i'm not sure i had picked that (input from the doctor) up from your
>earlier posts.  i _think_ (without going back to check) that i said
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>(the only clinical trial i've ever taken part in, is to do with the
>cancer that i had excised last year.)

Good points made by Robin.

I also didn't pick up on what the Doctor said in the OP.
The very good point that Robin highlights is arthritis is all things
to all men (and women). Many of us get the same problems, but all of
our bodies and immune systems deal with it in their own way. That's
why it is not only important to listen and act on what the Docs say,
but accept a new and different set of instructions as things progress
for better or worst.
The "Free" ARC leaflets, say the same about diet also, ie: if you cut
out tomatoes and your aches and pains improve, do  not expect the same
of someone else, they may cut out toms and still have problems, we are
all different. Let's face it if there was a cure all diet to fix
arthritis, this group would not exist, the docs would have put us on
it and we'd be fixed!

When the OP does get to see the Physio Terrorist, ask about the
Hospital physio gym, their sould be a set of exercise bikes rowing
machines and  a treadmill or 2 there, hopefully and said physio will
instruct on what to use and what not to.
The High Council - 30 Nov 2007 12:10 GMT
>>i'm not sure i had picked that (input from the doctor) up from your
>>earlier posts.  i _think_ (without going back to check) that i said
>>summat like "be careful", which almost matches what the doctor said.

I saw my GP again since my initial post - that is why you never picked
it up.

>When the OP does get to see the Physio Terrorist, ask about the
>Hospital physio gym, their sould be a set of exercise bikes rowing
>machines and  a treadmill or 2 there, hopefully and said physio will
>instruct on what to use and what not to.

I like your term 'physio terrorist' - made me chuckle.

Thanks - I will ask about the gym - I never thought that might be a
possibility - just assumed any gyms would charge a fee.

Thanks again.
Sandy Morton - 30 Nov 2007 12:54 GMT
> Thanks - I will ask about the gym - I never thought that might be a
> possibility - just assumed any gyms would charge a fee.

Our physio allows the use of the torture equipment by anyone without
payment.
The High Council - 30 Nov 2007 12:01 GMT
>[angry with an unkind response he's received]
>>Running for me is very important indeed as it is a coping mechanism
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>(the only clinical trial i've ever taken part in, is to do with the
>cancer that i had excised last year.)

Very sensible advice Robin. I agree with you. I guess I am still in
the early stage of shock regarding my diagnosis and so naturally I am
looking into all avenues. I was an admirer of Ranulf Fiennes (I used
to do marathons with him etc) so I was obviously intrigued to read he
had hip arthritis also but seemed to 'cure' himself of any further
pain despite his continued exercise by following a diet that cut down
the uric acid deposits in his body. The same apparently worked for his
83 year old mother. He said all he did was eat a tablespoon of
mollasses and a warm drink of cider vinegar in water every day - and
after about 6 months his pain went and have not returned yet.

I am sorry to read about your cancer scare.

Best wishes
LM
tony sayer - 30 Nov 2007 14:11 GMT
>Very sensible advice Robin. I agree with you. I guess I am still in
>the early stage of shock regarding my diagnosis and so naturally I am
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Best wishes
>LM

Well FWIW...

I also have Gout and some days you can feel that starting to twinge in
my right big toe and then it stops. Sometimes it goes on for a lot
longer and once or twice it went on for weeks and I can't remember
anything I'd taken or eaten that could have triggered it off.

But Uric acids levels do seem to be on the high side of normal so I tend
to quaff a lot of water to dilute and flush it out of the system as best
as possible.

So its quite feasible that some foods as indeed ones high in purines are
best avoided as is the booze, but conversely there may well be some
things that reverse this effect and it may not take that much that you
might be totally unaware of them .. it might just nudge the "inflamer"
enough to not cause a problem but it seems not a lot has been done in
the way of research into them, and the cynic in me reckons thats 'cos
theirs not a lot of money in food drugs;!..

However molasses and cider vinegar taken for six weeks isn't that
scientific as in that time something else could have changed which could
have righted the original problem!...
Signature

Tony Sayer

 
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