If it had nothing to do with the cox2 why did they withdraw it? they just don't want to pay up!

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er@gmail.com - 13 Jul 2006 15:09 GMT

Found this about vioxx

http://www.forbes.com/business/healthcare/feeds/ap/2006/07/11/ap2872262.html

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diclidophora@yahoo.co.uk - 13 Jul 2006 20:27 GMT

Evidently there has never been a comparative study of the numbers of
people who get cardvascular problems on Cox2s VS Non-Cox2 NSAIDs and
the numbers of people who get garstrointestinal events on Non-Cox2s
versus Cox2s or a comparison of the 2 sets of events on either class of
drugs. - Or a comparison of the numbers of deaths.

CV events proved to be a very good excuse for the NHS/NICE/government
to withdraw some costly drugs. Or just maybe 'it seemed like a good
idea at the time'.

Peter

> Found this about vioxx
>
> http://www.forbes.com/business/healthcare/feeds/ap/2006/07/11/ap2872262.html

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Robin Fairbairns - 13 Jul 2006 23:26 GMT

>Evidently there has never been a comparative study of the numbers of
>people who get cardvascular problems on Cox2s VS Non-Cox2 NSAIDs and
>the numbers of people who get garstrointestinal events on Non-Cox2s
>versus Cox2s or a comparison of the 2 sets of events on either class of
>drugs. - Or a comparison of the numbers of deaths.

the problem with those sorts of cross-correlatory trials is (a)
they're hard to design, (b) expensive to run and (c) damned difficult
to explain to your average thicko lawyer, who wouldn't recognise a
contingent probability if it came and slapped him in the face with a
wet haddock.

>CV events proved to be a very good excuse for the NHS/NICE/government
>to withdraw some costly drugs. Or just maybe 'it seemed like a good
>idea at the time'.

i don't understand all this. i know vioxx got withdrawn, and at the
time (not having seen the figures) i assumed it was a sensible move.
i'm not so sure, now.

then people started worrying about celecoxib, too, and i was getting
all worried about that. but they haven't withdrawn celecoxib, for
sure, since i (and my mother) keep going on nhs prescriptions of it.

i worry (worried) about it, because it's the only nsaid that's ever
kept me in a remotely stable state. they were discussing whether to
try me on one of the anti-tnf treatments, and decided against. the
idea of losing my celecoxib and not having any path forward (so having
to go back) bothers me a lot.

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Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

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Adelle - 14 Jul 2006 05:05 GMT

>>Evidently there has never been a comparative study of the numbers of
>>people who get cardvascular problems on Cox2s VS Non-Cox2 NSAIDs and
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> idea of losing my celecoxib and not having any path forward (so having
> to go back) bothers me a lot.

That's kind of where I am - really missing Vioxx.

I'm using Plaquenil and an NSAID (Arthrotec), but at lower than the
recommended dose. Am also taking Axid. But it's a careful balance. One iced
tea with lemon and I'm eating lots of antacids for days. No more black teas,
Coke, coffee drinks, citrus...May even have to give up tomato sauce soon.

Can't take Celebrex because it's a sulfa based drug - allergies.

The thing that bothers me about the study is they didn't control for other
risk factors. The participants were all elderly, with no clear accounting of
other pre-existing conditions. Yes, some had heart attacks. But no one
checked to see if there was a family history of sudden heart attacks,
personal history of smoking, diabetes, gum disease, etc.

Adelle

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diclidophora@yahoo.co.uk - 14 Jul 2006 13:44 GMT

Re Celebrex. It seems that it is postcode again. The PCT here while not
actually banning it, made it nearly impossible for a GP to prescribe.

Personally. About 2-3 yrs after getting RA, I had been thro all the
NSAIDs around. Everything upset my gut. Then they brought out a new one
called Flenac. It did more than one could expect of an NSAID. It put me
into near remission. They took Flenac off the market during the early
80s NSAID scare (yes there was another one then). I thought that I was
in deep s and had a go at diclofenac and amazingly I stayed in the same
state of near remission for another 10+ years. At that time I was
advised by two rheumatologists that it would stay that way. It didn't!

So I would say, if you are controlled and near remission stay with it.
If your joints are not eroding and your pain is pretty well controlled,
don't escalate until you have to. Depending on your age, DAS etc you
may need something in reserve.

Peter

> >Evidently there has never been a comparative study of the numbers of
> >people who get cardvascular problems on Cox2s VS Non-Cox2 NSAIDs and
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> idea of losing my celecoxib and not having any path forward (so having
> to go back) bothers me a lot.

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