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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / May 2004A request
Please, would someone who is knowledgeable here, explain for the readers how vloume of sound diminishes as you move away from the sound source? I think if persons understood the amount of energy the speakers generate and how it diminishes in space there would be less persons with Tinnitus due to standing too close to the speakers. Most persons here blame the music group's concert but it was your ear near the speakers that caused the tinnitus. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > Please, would someone who is knowledgeable here, explain for the readers how > vloume of sound diminishes as you move away from the sound source? I think if [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com How the sound diminished spends on the nature of the source. If it is a point source, sound will diminish by the inverse square of the distance. If it is a line source, it will diminish at a much lower rate and if the source is an infinite plane of sound, the level will not diminish going to an infinite distance. All of this assumes there are no other variables affecting propagation. This explains, by the way, why one can have warm floors with ceiling-radiant heat (the energy source approaches an infinite plane) and why a 40-watt florescent bulb (approaches an infinite line) does a better job than a bulb (point source). "Ball 33" <bushlies@whitehouse.now> wrote in part: >> Please, would someone who is knowledgeable here, explain for the readers >how [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >plane) and why a 40-watt florescent bulb (approaches an infinite line) does >a better job than a bulb (point source). Also, because of phase relationships with amplified music and multiple speakers, there are "hot spots" on concert floors where the sound is actually louder than it is at any surrounding point. It's a complicated topic.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > "Ball 33" <bushlies@whitehouse.now> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > It's a complicated topic. How true, Jim. The last time I attended a concert I sat in a cold spot about 10' away from a hot spot. Ever wonder what the world would look like if we could see waveforms in the audio spectrum or, for that matter, in the rf spectrum? Watching all of those waves pass through our transparent bodies would fuel paranoia to such an extent it's absence would be a mental illness. "Ball 33" <bushlies@whitehouse.now> wrote in part: >> "Ball 33" <bushlies@whitehouse.now> wrote in part: >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >bodies would fuel paranoia to such an extent it's absence would be a mental >illness. I've always thought this phase stuff might be the reason some people get tinnitus at a concert while those sitting next to them don't. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > > "Ball 33" <bushlies@whitehouse.now> wrote in part: > > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > bodies would fuel paranoia to such an extent it's absence would be a mental > illness. Good quality tinfoil wrapped around the head works well. Make sure you put the shiny side of the foil on the outside. >bushlies@whitehouse.now writes: >How true, Jim. The last time I attended a concert I sat in a cold spot ..............and you went to see Lawrence Welk. > Watching all of those waves pass through our transparent >bodies would fuel paranoia to such an extent it's absence would be a mental >illness. ....................musta been the bubbles - jean :) From: sufein@aol.comnospam (Susan ) Newsgroups: alt.support.tinnitus x-no-archive: yes >>..............and you went to see Lawrence Welk. >ROFL!! >Susan Thas wud happens from too many bubblesh. You end up ROFL.. Broosh (hic!) >Thas wud happens from too many bubblesh. >You end up ROFL.. > >Broosh (hic!) Help, I've fallen and I can't get up! Susan, loves champagne, hold the Welk I am a long way from Physics 101, but what is a line source of sound and what is an infinite one? Also sound goes through air and is lost by friction. Line source? please explain. In my mind sound doesn't probagate the way light does. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > I am a long way from Physics 101, but what is a line source of sound and what > is an infinite one? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com Here are a couple of examples, Murray: A shot fired from a pistol would approximate a point source. A guitar string would approximate a line source. A plane source can be created by constructing an array of point sources. In that case, the phase of each point source must be the same. The higher the density, the closer the approximation. Yes, there are environmental variables. Like Jim said, reflected sound waves can combine with source waves (or other reflected waves) and add algebraically. The medium can have a profound effect too. But if it is a lilne source or a plane source, the volume would still diminsh as a factor of distance. A line source still goes out as a sphere, but not a perfect sphere as a point source. Can you point a sound like a laser beam? Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com entconsult@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote in part: >But if it is a lilne source or a plane source, the volume would still diminsh >as a factor of distance. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Murray Grossan, M.D. >http://www.ent-consult.com An infinite plane source would not diminish with distance at all. A line source is a collection of point sources. Think about it that way. A receiver gets the sum of all the point sources on the line. Essentailly, sound and light diminish in intensity because of dilution over space. But some radiators aren't point sources and you have to add them all up... Jim SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > But if it is a lilne source or a plane source, the volume would still diminsh > as a factor of distance. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com Yes, Murray, you can. Last winter this technology was demonstrated at a technical seminar near where I live. Sound could be delivered so accurately that at a considerable distance it could be heard by a single, targeted individual. I'll see if I can find a link to the company that is exploiting this technology. There was some discussion about it on a.s.t. a while back. > > But if it is a lilne source or a plane source, the volume would still > diminsh [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > individual. I'll see if I can find a link to the company that is exploiting > this technology. There was some discussion about it on a.s.t. a while back. Here is the link Murray: http://www.atcsd.com/tl_hss.html > I am a long way from Physics 101, but what is a line source of sound and what > is an infinite one? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com Look here, Murray: http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/institute/level2/course18/lecture53/l53_05.asp entconsult@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote in part: >In my mind sound doesn't probagate the way light does. >Murray Grossan, M.D. I think the principal practical difference is that light is almost always incoherent, meaning that it is composed of a random mix of phases. Waves are at different points in their cycle at any point in time. Sound is quite often coherent, with all points of the radiator moving in unison. This means that sound waves tend to exhibit both destructive and constructive types of interference. The way two sound paths interact where they meet depends upon the phases of the two wave fronts. Concerts tend to use many, many simultaneously driven (coherent) speakers. Such sound is like the light from a laser rather than the light from an ordinary lamp. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim Chinnis) wrote in message > I think the principal practical difference is that light is almost always > incoherent, meaning that it is composed of a random mix of phases. Waves are > at different points in their cycle at any point in time. A little Physics 101 is needed here. Light, paradoxically, behaves like a wave and a "packet" at the same time. Light is coherent. It is not composed of a random mix of phases. > Sound is quite often coherent, with all points of the radiator moving in > unison. This means that sound waves tend to exhibit both destructive and > constructive types of interference. The way two sound paths interact where > they meet depends upon the phases of the two wave fronts. Concerts tend to use > many, many simultaneously driven (coherent) speakers. Light waves also exhibit both destructive and constructive types of interference. Do a search on the "two slit experiment". Light from a light bulb or the sun consists of light of many different wave-lengths (color). Laser light is much more coherent and emits light of a single wave-length. > Such sound is like the light from a laser rather than the light from an > ordinary lamp. peterc_7@hotmail.com (Pete C.) wrote in part: >jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim Chinnis) wrote in message > I think the principal practical difference is that light is almost always >> incoherent, meaning that it is composed of a random mix of phases. Waves are [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> Such sound is like the light from a laser rather than the light from an >> ordinary lamp. The two-slit experiment, as I recall, uses two slits to project two identical sources of light onto a screen. In so doing that, it doesn't matter if the primary source is coherent or not. Ordinary light is incoherent, however. But you are certainly right that even ordinary incoherent light can interact with itself in both additive and subtractive ways. I was trying to make the point that concert music can produce hot spots by virtue of the way speakers are used in phase. If you had two similar bands playing the same piece on the left and on the right on stage, the two sound fields would exhibit less in the way of hot spots than would one source played over two speakers at the same two locations. The difference lies in the fact that the two speakers work like the two slit experiment does, whereas the two bands do not. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > Please, would someone who is knowledgeable here, explain for the readers how > vloume of sound diminishes as you move away from the sound source? I'll get back to this. > Murray Grossan, M.D. Kind regards Peter Larsen Signature******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
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