Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / February 2004
Injecting oxygen into the blood stream
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francispoon - 14 Feb 2004 07:17 GMT Anyone has heard of this type of treatment?
Thank you in advance.
FP
Bush Lied - 14 Feb 2004 17:42 GMT > Anyone has heard of this type of treatment? > > Thank you in advance. > > FP Isn't this what lungs are for? Deep breathing exercises would do this.
ENTconsult - 14 Feb 2004 19:56 GMT Injecting any gas into the blood stream will cause an embolus or will cause the heart to fail. Also clots in the brain. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com
Stephen Nagler - 14 Feb 2004 20:32 GMT >Injecting any gas into the blood stream will cause an embolus or will cause >the heart to fail. Also clots in the brain. ...............
No doubt a "traditional" treatment of some sort.
smn
Bush Lied - 14 Feb 2004 21:07 GMT > Injecting any gas into the blood stream will cause an embolus or will cause > the heart to fail. Also clots in the brain. > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com OK, then, you got me. I honestly thought the lungs oxygenated the blood and the heart pumped it throughout our cellular structure.
What does a heart/lung machine do?
Stephen Nagler - 14 Feb 2004 21:45 GMT >> Injecting any gas into the blood stream will cause an embolus or will >cause [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >OK, then, you got me. I honestly thought the lungs oxygenated the blood and >the heart pumped it throughout our cellular structure. ..............
Right. That's for oxygen that is picked up by hemoglobin molecules in the blood after diffusing through the alveoli of the lungs into the bloodstream. But a *bolus* of oxygen injected directly into the vascular system can cause an "air embolus" - just like Murray said.
smn
Bush Lied - 14 Feb 2004 22:50 GMT > >> Injecting any gas into the blood stream will cause an embolus or will > >cause [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > smn I went back to the original post and frankly, I have to think Francis was referring to oxygenation of the blood and not pumping air into the one's vascular system. Really, professionals, think about it? Could Francis possibly be referring to a known lethal procedure?
His question becomes, then, is their an oxygenation device out there that supplements the lung's ability to oxygenate blood and does that have any affect on tinnitus?
Good grief.
Bill
Bush Lied - 14 Feb 2004 23:01 GMT > > >> Injecting any gas into the blood stream will cause an embolus or will > > >cause [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Bill p.s.
Maybe he is asking about Hyperbaric Oxygenation Therapy. I'll bet this is what he was referring to:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=1 0384896&dopt=Abstract
Stephen Nagler - 14 Feb 2004 23:19 GMT >Maybe he is asking about Hyperbaric Oxygenation Therapy. ...............
I bet not, since his question about HBO therapy has already been addressed.
Bu it doesn't matter in the long run - because either way the issue has now been addressed.
smn
Stephen Nagler - 14 Feb 2004 23:16 GMT >I went back to the original post and frankly, I have to think Francis was >referring to oxygenation of the blood and not pumping air into the one's >vascular system. Really, professionals, think about it? Could Francis >possibly be referring to a known lethal procedure? ...............
Not knowingly, he wouldn't.
Francis, you will remember, is the person who recommends trying injecting a concoction of herbs into the bloodstrem as well.
.................
>His question becomes, then, is their an oxygenation device out there that >supplements the lung's ability to oxygenate blood and does that have any >affect on tinnitus? ....................
That's not at all how I read it - espectially since his question about hyperbaric oxygen treatment was addressed on this newsgroup just a short time ago. To me, when francis asks about "injecting oxygen into the bloodstrem," he means just that.
..............
>Good grief. ................
Why? Because opinions and interpretations can vary?
smn
Bush Lied - 14 Feb 2004 23:42 GMT <snip>
> Francis, you will remember, is the person who recommends trying > injecting a concoction of herbs into the bloodstrem as well. Yes, I do remember that. I don't recall him mentioning the particular herbs or the formula. Just saying "herbs" brings up a vision of my spice rack but then all manner of stuff is injected into the blood stream. I suppose some of this stuff is derived from flora, like morphine and glucose.
It struck me that since there are heart lung machines, and since these machines are capable of oxygenating blood, that there might also be a machine that takes blood from one part of the body, oxygenates it, and then returns it to another part of the body to supplement the oxygen injected by the lungs. Simple question, huh?
francispoon - 15 Feb 2004 08:30 GMT > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > then all manner of stuff is injected into the blood stream. I suppose some > of this stuff is derived from flora, like morphine and glucose. Exactly! I wonder why Dr.Nagler finds herb extracts to be so different from the other kinds of mineral medicine he has been using on patients. Perhaps herbs extracts don't sound 'proper', 'conventional', 'orthodox' enough to him to warrant his attention.
FP ==================
> It struck me that since there are heart lung machines, and since these > machines are capable of oxygenating blood, that there might also be a > machine that takes blood from one part of the body, oxygenates it, and then > returns it to another part of the body to supplement the oxygen injected by > the lungs. Simple question, huh? Stephen Nagler - 15 Feb 2004 08:41 GMT >Exactly! I wonder why Dr.Nagler finds herb extracts to be so >different from the other kinds of mineral medicine he has been using >on patients. Perhaps herbs extracts don't sound 'proper', >'conventional', 'orthodox' enough to him to warrant his attention. ..............
OK, FP.
What herbs do you suggest I inject into my bloodstream? What are the proper doses? And what types of sterilization procedures are used in the preparation?
smn
francispoon - 16 Feb 2004 01:11 GMT > >Exactly! I wonder why Dr.Nagler finds herb extracts to be so > >different from the other kinds of mineral medicine he has been using [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > proper doses? And what types of sterilization procedures are used in > the preparation? If you come to China, I could introduce you to my ENT doctor who was trained in both western and traditional Chinese medicine. The treatment is very cheap. 10 intravenous injection costed me only less than US$150. I produced the name of the medicine here before in one of my posts and now I don;t recall. So please look up my post. But what you could do is to contact the medical centre in a nearby university where there are medical students from mainland China and you share this idea with them. But even without this herb extract, you could do it over where you are using mineral solution. The idea is the same. It is used to melt down what the traditional herbalists call 'bruised blood particles'. But western doctors don't call the particles by that name. They might call it some kind of deposit on the wall of the blood vessels. But the idea is this: you might have suffered some kind of wound in your head when you were much younger and the old wound is coming back to give you trouble after such a time lag! I suffered a head wound about a year ago and it came back to give me ring on the left side of the brain. In the beginning, I even forgot i had a wound about a year ago until i stopped the use of hydrochloridethiazide. The latter did not cause my T but camouflaged the problem by spreading it all over the head. It was only after I stopped its use that i discovered the problem has been taking place where the old wound is. Thus with the help of the injection(currently over), and the use of a vibration to do massaging on my left head each day, i have done away with more than 80% of the ring. I hate to use the word 'cure' as that word means it will never come back and also means total silence. Currently what is left is a slight 'hiss' sound with low frequency, which is very livable.
I have been off Ativan for almost 2 months and am not using any herb pills for sleeping at all. You have to trust me for what i am telling you because what i have gone through is as valid as any controlled study.
FP
> smn Stephen Nagler - 16 Feb 2004 01:17 GMT >If you come to China, ... .............
Well, FP, that's a bit inconvenient this week.
Thanks for the suggestion, though. I'll sure keep in in mind.
Heer's to continued success in your treatment!
smn
Jim Chinnis - 16 Feb 2004 01:19 GMT fyfpoon@hotmail.com (francispoon) wrote in part:
>You have to trust me for what i am telling >you because what i have gone through is as valid as any controlled >study. It's as valid as any controlled study with an N of one and lacking a control.
 Signature Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG
francispoon - 16 Feb 2004 01:54 GMT > >Exactly! I wonder why Dr.Nagler finds herb extracts to be so > >different from the other kinds of mineral medicine he has been using [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What herbs do you suggest I inject into my bloodstream? What are the > proper doses? If you were really interested in getting a cure for your tinnitus as opposed to being interested as a skeptic, I could fax the Chinese name to you and you could bring it to a good doctor who is versed in Chinese. Afterwards, you could import them and use it on yourself. The herb extract is well made by multinational corporations.
And what types of sterilization procedures are used in
> the preparation? I am amazed you even ask this question. Do you think China is as backward as how it is shown in the Hollywood movies?
FP ===================================
> smn terri231@know.spam.mam - 16 Feb 2004 02:02 GMT >> >Exactly! I wonder why Dr.Nagler finds herb extracts to be so >> >different from the other kinds of mineral medicine he has been using [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >=================================== >> smn And FP, when he says he wishes you well with your treatment, he doesn't really mean it.
Terri
http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport
Elly Byrne - 15 Feb 2004 20:04 GMT >It struck me that since there are heart lung machines, and since these >machines are capable of oxygenating blood, I think you'll find that the machine simply pumps the blood around, but it is the LUNGS that do the actual oxygenating.
Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ http://meniere.eebee.net/
For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net
Bush Lied - 15 Feb 2004 21:34 GMT > >It struck me that since there are heart lung machines, and since these > >machines are capable of oxygenating blood, > > I think you'll find that the machine simply pumps the blood around, > but it is the LUNGS that do the actual oxygenating. Certainly that might be the case with some machines but a google search for "blood oxygenation" produces links to lots of machines that oxygenate the blood, including references to heart/lung machines that both pump and oxygenate blood. Check it out.
Jim Chinnis - 15 Feb 2004 22:24 GMT Elly Byrne <elly@eebee.cjb.net.noway> wrote in part:
>I think you'll find that the machine simply pumps the blood around, >but it is the LUNGS that do the actual oxygenating. The lungs aren't doing anything when a heart-lung machine is used. In fact, the patient isn't breathing. The machine does both the pumping and the oxygenation.
 Signature Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG
Bush Lied - 15 Feb 2004 22:32 GMT > Elly Byrne <elly@eebee.cjb.net.noway> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the patient isn't breathing. The machine does both the pumping and the > oxygenation. Bush Lied - 15 Feb 2004 22:34 GMT > Elly Byrne <elly@eebee.cjb.net.noway> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the patient isn't breathing. The machine does both the pumping and the > oxygenation. Do these folks report ringing in their ears? If not, then we have yet another cure for tinnitus. :-)
Elly Byrne - 16 Feb 2004 19:05 GMT >Elly Byrne <elly@eebee.cjb.net.noway> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >the patient isn't breathing. The machine does both the pumping and the >oxygenation. Thank you. I had not realized that.
Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ http://meniere.eebee.net/
For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net
francispoon - 15 Feb 2004 08:24 GMT > >I went back to the original post and frankly, I have to think Francis was > >referring to oxygenation of the blood and not pumping air into the one's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Francis, you will remember, is the person who recommends trying > injecting a concoction of herbs into the bloodstrem as well. I have just been done that. What is wrong with that? It feels great. I am still alive! The doctor dissolves some herb power into salted water which is to be pumped into my body through intravenous injection.
> >His question becomes, then, is their an oxygenation device out there that > >supplements the lung's ability to oxygenate blood and does that have any > >affect on tinnitus? No, i read something about drawing out one's blood and then mixing one's blood with oyxgen or oxygen-content stuff and then re-injecting the blood into his body again. This process is nothing but traditional. It is quite modern. If you know the specific medical terms for this process, please tell me.
FP
> .................... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > smn Stephen Nagler - 15 Feb 2004 08:43 GMT >No, i read something about drawing out one's blood and then mixing >one's blood with oyxgen or oxygen-content stuff and then re-injecting >the blood into his body again. This process is nothing but >traditional. It is quite modern. If you know the specific medical >terms for this process, please tell me. ................
Maybe if you told me *where* you read about this procedure and gave me a reference, I could comment.
smn
Charlie - 15 Feb 2004 14:58 GMT It sounds like you're talking about Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation (ECMO). But back up a step and have your doctor take a simple measurement with a pulse oximeter, which tells you what percentage of oxygen your blood is carrying of the total amount that it is capable of carrying. These are the little machines that clip painlessly onto your finger or ear.
Unless you're suffering from some reasonably significant cardiopulmonary problem, you'll see that your hemoglobin is ~98% saturated with O2.
Injecting additional O2, whether through the lungs or ECMO is unlikely to cause a significant change in saturation. It's hard to imagine that there would be any effect at all on tinnitus, but go ahead an try - and be sure to let us know if it works for you.
Charlie
> > >I went back to the original post and frankly, I have to think Francis was > > >referring to oxygenation of the blood and not pumping air into the one's [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > > smn francispoon - 15 Feb 2004 08:16 GMT > > >> Injecting any gas into the blood stream will cause an embolus or will > cause [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > referring to oxygenation of the blood and not pumping air into the one's > vascular system. You may be right. I have not been expressing it in professional terms. i read a post in the old alt.archive that someone draws bloods out of his body and mixes it with oxygen and then has the blood re-injected it into his body again.
FP =================================
Really, professionals, think about it? Could Francis
> possibly be referring to a known lethal procedure? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Bill Stephen Nagler - 15 Feb 2004 08:44 GMT >You may be right. I have not been expressing it in professional >terms. i read a post in the old alt.archive that someone draws bloods >out of his body and mixes it with oxygen and then has the blood >re-injected it into his body again. ...............
Do you have a specific reference, FP?
smn
francispoon - 16 Feb 2004 01:13 GMT > >You may be right. I have not been expressing it in professional > >terms. i read a post in the old alt.archive that someone draws bloods [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Do you have a specific reference, FP? Look up under hyperbaric oxygen or something like that under google or yahoo. I just happened to have run into it randomly.
FP ========================
> smn Stephen Nagler - 16 Feb 2004 01:20 GMT >> >You may be right. I have not been expressing it in professional >> >terms. i read a post in the old alt.archive that someone draws bloods [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >FP ..............
FP, hyperbaric oxygen treatment (or anything similar to hyperbaric oygen treatment) has nothing whatsoever to do with drawing blood out of the body, mixing it with oxygen, and then re-injecting the blood back in the body.
Here's to continued success with your treatment!
smn
francispoon - 16 Feb 2004 08:00 GMT > >> >You may be right. I have not been expressing it in professional > >> >terms. i read a post in the old alt.archive that someone draws bloods [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > of the body, mixing it with oxygen, and then re-injecting the blood > back in the body. You miss the point. I told you how I ran into that site while looking up hyperbaric oxygen treatment.
FP ============================
> Here's to continued success with your treatment! > > smn ENTconsult - 15 Feb 2004 04:48 GMT The blood is oxygenated by red blood cells that carry oxygen from the lungs to be released throughout the body. One of the most serious conditions occurs in scuba divers when they come up from depth too fast and the gases concentrated in the fluid of the ciruculation expands to form a bubble which causes stroke, or worse. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com
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