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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / February 2004Why is there no cure for T?
Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong area or the wrong direction? FP > Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong > area or the wrong direction? > > FP Where should they be trained to look? > > Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong > > area or the wrong direction? > > > > FP > > Where should they be trained to look? Certain individuals who are in en vogue and in power in the tinnitus world. Such people should be sprayed with VX nerve agent. There has been no progress in 50 years, imo you should make your internal peace. I am well on the way to achieving mine with tinnitus. > > > Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong > > > area or the wrong direction? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > progress in 50 years, imo you should make your internal peace. I am well on > the way to achieving mine with tinnitus. I have, William. I habituated my tinnitus several years ago. Francis wonders if doctors are trained to look in the wrong direction. Currently, doctors are trained to look for known causes such as exposure to loud sounds, acoustic neuroma and autotoxic drugs. We know these are the right places to look but perhaps Francis knows of some other place. Researchers are looking at the auditory cortex so I suppose that is covered. > > Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong > > area or the wrong direction? > > > > FP > > Where should they be trained to look? I don't know as i am no medical professional, but the Chinese herbalists call tinnitus the 'kidney's disease'. FP > I don't know as i am no medical professional, but the Chinese > herbalists call tinnitus the 'kidney's disease'. Does loud music damage the Kidney ? "Jesper Buch" <jesperbuch@hotmail.com> wrote in part: >> I don't know as i am no medical professional, but the Chinese >> herbalists call tinnitus the 'kidney's disease'. > >Does loud music damage the Kidney ? Only if it's really, really, REALLY loud and you place the speakers across your lower back.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > > Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong > > area or the wrong direction? > > > > FP > > Where should they be trained to look? Actually both my herbalist doctor and western-trained doctor have been talking about the poor blood circulation in my body. While the herbalist points at the weakened kidney as the culprit, the western-trained doctor at the vasecular condition in the body. FP > > > Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong > > > area or the wrong direction? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > FP I would be interested in knowing the mechanism that links kidney function to subjective tinnitus. Ask your herbalist to explain this to us. Perhaps he/she has found the cure we've been looking for. Find out which herb does the job, how the precise dosage was determined and what side effects have been observed. > > "Bush Lied" <bushlies@whitehouse.now> wrote in message > news:<eIuMb.35$941.773@news7.onvoy.net>... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > the job, how the precise dosage was determined and what side effects have > been observed. The tinnitus in this case is a high frequency buzzing or hissing sound. So i wonder if that is what you call subjective or objective. My herbalist does not have a command of the English language to come into this ng and tells you what he is doing. But i could tell you what she(a woman) has explained to me. She attributes my tinnitus to a poor blood circulation, which has come about not only because of poor vasecular condition but of anxiety too. The latter might have come out of certain traumatic event in life i might have experienced prior to the appearance of my tinnitus. At any way, she is focusing on restoring the yin and yan balance of my liver, which she claims is connected with my state of mind or anxiety. Mind you, it works! Everyday after I drink the herb tea she prescribes to me, the ringing stops but I have to do this over a prolonged period of time on a daily basis. Wish the whole bowl of herb tea could have been condensed into a pill. At the same time, I am getting western treatment too. Another herbalist feels my kidney is the culprit. But she, the first one, feels focus should be on the liver while secondary attention is being given to the kidney. Like western doctors, they do disagree in degrees. FP Did you know you cannot make homeopathic remedies work while taking other remedies, herbal or chemical, to circumvent the symptoms of the ailment you are treating homeopathically? > > > "Bush Lied" <bushlies@whitehouse.now> wrote in message > > news:<eIuMb.35$941.773@news7.onvoy.net>... [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > FP > Did you know you cannot make homeopathic remedies work while taking other > remedies, herbal or chemical, to circumvent the symptoms of the ailment you > are treating homeopathically? I don't even know what homeopathy is. I read that from T-gone but perhaps of geographical distance, they are not following it up this with me any more. It is interesting that you mentioned the presence of one kind of medicines that makes another kind fail to work. FP ============================ > > "Bush Lied" <bushlies@whitehouse.now> wrote in message > news:<7dTMb.74$941.2039@news7.onvoy.net>... [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > > > FP You seem to indicate, from my loose following, that you are taking many preparations from many walks of medicine at the same time. Since you seem to be involved with herbal remedies / medications I thought you may be involved with homeopathics also. Hoemeopathics usually work by pushing the ailment "over the the edge" , so to speak by aggravating the symptoms. Medications that prevent these symptoms would be contrary to this effect and render them useless. > > Did you know you cannot make homeopathic remedies work while taking other > > remedies, herbal or chemical, to circumvent the symptoms of the ailment you [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > > > > > FP > You seem to indicate, from my loose following, that you are taking many > preparations from many walks of medicine at the same time. Since you seem [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to speak by aggravating the symptoms. Medications that prevent these > symptoms would be contrary to this effect and render them useless. It is interesting that you bring this concept up or the concept of "over the the edge". To me, tho i know little of T and its various treatments, the worst kind of treatment is covering up the symptoms with the use of drugs like ATIVAN. I was on it for less than 2 months. Now i am totally off!!! You just could not imagine how it screamed and shouted when the Ativan pill was trimmed just a bit. Another doctor advised me to reduce Ativan in order to allow the nerves in the ear to get used to more noise. I suppose that goes along the lines of homeopathics. I managed to use herbs to help me asleep. As the amount of herbs (meant for sleeping) was increased, ATIVAN began to feel redundant by itself. Then i began trimming the pill...The other kinds of herbs I take is for the invigoration of the kidney and that of liver, but not meant to cover up the noise, tho the noise does go down a bit after the herbs are taken. But this method is meant to get to the cause but not suppress the symptoms. ATIVAN is an anti-anxiety drug, so to speak, but it was my biggest anxiety ever for the reasons i cited in various post. I am glad it is now over! FP > > "Ear Rings" <No@spamit.com> wrote in message > news:<61d19140a50380c890430c759b84603e@news.teranews.com>... [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > > > > > > > FP You may still require an anti-anxiety medication. This is not a personal failure of some kind. It can be genetic based or a million other excuses. There is no shame in it. Yes, even TRT may work on a similiar principal as homeopathic remedies. "a hair of the dog that bit you" > > You seem to indicate, from my loose following, that you are taking many > > preparations from many walks of medicine at the same time. Since you seem [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > > > > > > > > > > FP > You may still require an anti-anxiety medication. But it does not have to be a prescription drug. Right? I am helping my sleeping with herb pills, which are available OTC. Also, I somewhat have sensed that when i take hbp medication in the morning with other drugs even herbs, it makes the ringing worse. From 5am to the time when i take HBP pills, there is hardly any ringing. The moment i take hbp pills 'with' other drugs, the ringing comes but when i take hbp pills 'without' other medicine not even vitamin pills, the ringing seems distant. I am beginning to qestion into this or particularly the drug interaction between Zestril and other drugs. Perhaps Zestril by itself is ok. This is not a personal > failure of some kind. It can be genetic based or a million other excuses. > There is no shame in it. Thank you for being so understanding. FP ----------------------------------------- > Yes, even TRT may work on a similiar principal as homeopathic remedies. > [quoted text clipped - 123 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > FP For anxiety and depression search for SSRI's (Selective Seritonin Reuptake Inhibitors). There are hundreds of brandnames for them and many types. Many have brutal side effects at the beginning (a few months) but fade into "gone away". It takes some experimenting to find the best one for yourself. This means at least two or three months trial for each. No sexual side effects can be very important to the male gendre patient. They are nonaddictive but take a few months to tolerate and a few months to withdraw from them. Some others: Wellbutrin: claimed to have no sexual side effects. Lexapro: claimed to have no side effects, very new and not many stats yet. Celexa: most claim a stimulating effect. Paxil: most claim a downing effect and weight gain. Effexor or Effexor XR (eXtended Release): a dual action seritonin and norepinephrin inhibitor Prozac: goes by many brand names, the first and still a good one for many I have dealt with. ...and many, many more. These all have to be prescribed by a doctor to get them in United States and Canada. They should be administered by a monitoring health professional also. Find a good one by trial and error and then try to obtain it cheap in Mexico or perhaps Spain if cost is prohibitive in your area. Some of these not off patent yet can be $100-$200 per month in USA. > > You may still require an anti-anxiety medication. > [quoted text clipped - 145 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FP I am doing well with herbs but the problem with herbs is it is very inconvenient to have them boiled when you are travelling. Have you heard or used any herb pills that could do the job as prescriptives? The good thing about herbs is that it allows to nap without repercussions, and it rarely has side effects. In China, they prescribe estrozopam. FP ============================= > For anxiety and depression search for SSRI's (Selective Seritonin Reuptake > Inhibitors). There are hundreds of brandnames for them and many types. Many [quoted text clipped - 203 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FP I had no success with herbs at all and use medications from the poison dispensing doctors. > I am doing well with herbs but the problem with herbs is it is very > inconvenient to have them boiled when you are travelling. Have you [quoted text clipped - 125 lines] > > news:<eIuMb.35$941.773@news7.onvoy.net>... > > > > > > > > > > > > "francispoon" <fyfpoon@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:936eaee8.0401120225.25c617f@posting.google.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it because the doctors have been trained to look > > into [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FP Should you listen to the T or ignore it? frankly there are two distinct schools of thought on this. One is to ignore it The other is to accept it, note it, and come to terms with it. Imagine an ugly facial scar. You see it. you recognize it. You use a little makeup to reduce it. or imagine the scar and you no longer see it at all. which way is best? Whatever works to allow you to live your life. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > Should you listen to the T or ignore it? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > or imagine the scar and you no longer see it at all. > which way is best? 1/2 and 1/2...Do you have an OTC anti-anxiety drug to recommend? THX FP ============================== Whatever works to allow you to live your life. > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com Do you have an OTC anti-anxiety drug to recommend? Yes, its called Mirror Biofeedback. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com Ignore it? I know the cause of MY "built-in tuning fork"... I'm so mad at myself for agreeing to take antidepressant meds, and I have no doubt that my tinnitus is the "side effect of the side effect"... After starting taking those drugs, I found myself ridden with involuntary, non-stop jaw-clenching, which in turn brought on the onset of that damn T... Ignore it? How about preventing it in the first place? > Should you listen to the T or ignore it? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com > Ignore it? > I know the cause of MY "built-in tuning fork"... > I'm so mad at myself for agreeing to take antidepressant meds, and I have no > doubt that my tinnitus is the "side effect of the side effect"... Agreed. When i was taking ATIVAN, i was unable to have a nap without repercussion of more ringing. FP ======================== > After starting taking those drugs, I found myself ridden with involuntary, > non-stop jaw-clenching, which in turn brought on the onset of that damn T... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Murray Grossan, M.D. > > http://www.ent-consult.com > > Ignore it? > > I know the cause of MY "built-in tuning fork"... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > FP Hi FP, just an observation about tinnitus and naps.... Louder ringing after naps is a common phenomenon among tinnitus sufferers. Very common. I myself used to experience it until my habituation advanced beyond that. Bruce > > > Ignore it? > > > I know the cause of MY "built-in tuning fork"... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > used to experience it until my habituation advanced > beyond that. By habitaution, do you mean getting used to it? FP > Bruce > > > Agreed. When i was taking ATIVAN, i was unable to have a nap without > > > repercussion of more ringing. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > > Bruce I always thought that Dr Stephen Nagler's analogy of comparing habituation to your pants. You wear your pants all day and give them no thought. You habituate to your pants. Don't even think about them. Same with habituating to tinnitus, and honestly I'm far more conscious of my pants anymore than I am my tinnitus. Honestly. It's how most tinnitus sufferers of the world end up and I hope you can take some comfort in that. The suffering stops and in most cases completely. Wasn't always this way. I was diagnosed with severe tinnitus and went through pure hell for months on end. Now there is no suffering for me, except of course the hell my wife, kids and boss put me through. ;-) Regards, Bruce >brucemeyerz@yahoo.com writes: > and honestly I'm far more conscious of my pants anymore than I am my tinnitus. ....................... Maybe you should buy bigger pants :) - jean > >brucemeyerz@yahoo.com writes: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - jean OK. That may help, but this rumor going around that I need 3-legged trousers is a bit of an exaggeration. Bruce >OK. That may help, but this rumor going around >that I need 3-legged trousers is a bit of an >exaggeration. Since you *started* that rumor, you should know. :-) Susan A: Medical science just isn't that good. B: Doctors then have no recourse but to put the responsibility on the sufferer themselves and so, with little options, invent anxiety as a *cause* of tinnitus rather than a symptom. A side effect of some SSRI medications for some. Take a higher dosage to eliminate the anxiety or find a new one. > Ignore it? > I know the cause of MY "built-in tuning fork"... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Murray Grossan, M.D. > > http://www.ent-consult.com >I'm so mad at myself for agreeing to take antidepressant meds, and I have no >doubt that my tinnitus is the "side effect of the side effect"... ................................ Which one were you taking? - jean At first it was Prozac (some years ago, jaw clenching, no ringing yet), then a couple of years ago, Effexor (evil, addictive drug) which initiated the current tinnitus, and more recently, Wellbutrin XL which caused an increase in the ringing volume... you too? > >I'm so mad at myself for agreeing to take antidepressant meds, and I have no > >doubt that my tinnitus is the "side effect of the side effect"... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > - jean Elavil @25 mg helped me habituate the T. Allowed me to sleep and lessened the volume and number of bad ear days. An increase to 50mg about 7 years ago worked even better. Although the tinnitus is no longer an issue I continue the elavil for treatment of endogenous depression. Going without the medication ( as I have a number of times) has had no effect on the tinnitus. I have always believed there is a link between tinnitus and depression, just as there is a link between napping and tinnitus. - jean Effexor is not addictive. It is very easy to stop. I have done it twice in the last few years. Cigarette smoking was harder to stop by a hundredfold. > At first it was Prozac (some years ago, jaw clenching, no ringing yet), then > a couple of years ago, Effexor (evil, addictive drug) which initiated the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > > - jean >Effexor is not addictive. It is very easy to stop. I have done it twice in >the last few years. Congratulations on easy discontinuation of Effexor. If you read the depression groups, you'll find that many folks feel awful if they're simply late for a pill, and many more describe an awful time withdrawing from it, even very slowly. I know several folks who've had this experience with it. Susan Each may have different withdrawal symptoms as each has their own side effects. I simply tapered off to 75 mg per day, missed a day here and there. Went to a tropical climate for a vacation and stopped for 6 months. My head buzzed for about a month or so but I knew what was happening and could still perform in the ballet when needed. Eventually my hormone levels subsided and the effects dies off and my depression/anxiety levels began to return. The emotional retraining became insignificant and I started another round of experimentation looking for anew medication. When I missed a day my head would start to buzz about 36 hours later. It wasn't a big deal at all. After taking an Effexor XR the buzzing/dizziness would subside in a couple of hours. Ask your doctor. SSRIs are NOT addictive at all. You just have to get on and off gradually to adjust well. Now Xanax and Ativan are different stories. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Susan At first it was Prozac (some years ago, jaw clenching, no ringing yet), then a couple of years ago, Effexor (evil, addictive drug) which initiated the current tinnitus, and more recently, Wellbutrin XL which caused an increase in the ringing volume... The reaction you are describing - including an increase in T wiht Wellbutrin is extremely unusual. Have you ever been evaluated to see why this happens? This suggests that your T is not a usual one. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com It has been stated that Blood Type O people cannot make good use of SSRIs without folic acid intake. > At first it was Prozac (some years ago, jaw clenching, no ringing yet), then > a couple of years ago, Effexor (evil, addictive drug) which initiated the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com > At first it was Prozac (some years ago, jaw clenching, no ringing yet), then > a couple of years ago, Effexor (evil, addictive drug) which initiated the > current tinnitus, and more recently, Wellbutrin XL which caused an increase > in the ringing volume... Try herbs or herb pills, if you are that senstive to mineral pills. FP ==================================== > you too? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > - jean >Everyday after I drink the herb tea she prescribes to >me, the ringing stops but I have to do this over a prolonged period of >time on a daily basis. If it works for you - stick with it. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net >Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong >area or the wrong direction? > >FP When one looks at the medical profession as a whole there is practically no interest in tinnitus at all. Doctors are not trained in the subject - apart from pronouncing the name. They assume that T is a little buzzing in the ear and cannot even begin to imagine the horrific sounds that some people have to endure. Any research that is going on seems to focus on the brain - or guinea pigs. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net >>Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong >>area or the wrong direction? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >practically no interest in tinnitus at all. Doctors are not trained in >the subject - apart from pronouncing the name. ........... No argument there. ............... >They assume that T is a little buzzing in the ear and cannot even >begin to imagine the horrific sounds that some people have to endure. ................. Again, agreed. .............. >Any research that is going on seems to focus on the brain - or guinea >pigs. ................ Strongly disagree. In fact you yourself, Elly, had some e-mail communication a while back with Dr. Robert Levine, who is looking at somatic sources for tinnitus. There are genetic studies, hair cell studies, much more. I think the central (i.e., brain) studies are in greater abundance because that's where many of the experts think the problem lies - and because that's where the original "non-brain" studies seem to be pointing. But there is still considerable work being done in other areas. smn >Strongly disagree. In fact you yourself, Elly, had some e-mail >communication a while back with Dr. Robert Levine, who is looking at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >studies seem to be pointing. But there is still considerable work >being done in other areas. Levine has acknowledged the fact that jaw movements influence tinnitus. But what is he doing with that knowledge? As far as I can see it has produced nothing. Levine and my emails were totally non productive. Experts think.... They can think what they like but that is not proof. The answer for the majority of tinnitus sufferers is going to come from a non medical field. What is needed is a person who can think outside the box they live in. 2 people have come to my attention in this regard - both of them dentists. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net >Levine and my emails were totally non productive. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >2 people have come to my attention in this regard - both of them >dentists. ................ Well, inside the box or outside the box, I think it's important that we continue to support tinnitus research. Currently there are three significant sources of funding (at least here in the States) of which I am aware: 1) NIDCD - The National Institute for Deafness and Communication Disorders of the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland 2) The Tinnitus Research Consortium - under the supervision of Dr. James B. Snow in Easton, Maryland 3) The American Tinnitus Association Have either of the two dentists to whom you refer above applied to any of these three sources for funding? smn Sure, research is important - but when is somebody going to research the muscle connection? And get out of the brain and guineapigs? You might remember I asked you years ago if you would consider 'testing' at least for muscle tension in your patients. As far as I know nothing happened there either. No the dentists have not applied for funding. The first one probably did not realize how important his discovery was. The second one I have only just discovered. I haven't asked him yet. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net >................ > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >smn > Sure, research is important - but when is somebody going to research > the muscle connection? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 'testing' at least for muscle tension in your patients. As far as I > know nothing happened there either. <snip> I'm with you on this Elly. The sound my T makes varies as I work my jaw or roll my head around. Why? No idea's here. You might remember I asked you years ago if you would consider 'testing' at least for muscle tension in your patients. As far as I know nothing happened there either. You looking for muscle tension and T? see Grossan: Treatment of Subjective Tinnitus with Biofeedback. Ear Nose and Throat Monthly Nov 1976. Grossan: A Brief Introduction to Biofeedback for Otolaryngologists. O.R.L. Digest, February 1975 these and other studies deal with muscle EMG related to T. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com >You looking for muscle tension and T? see I know. Murray. You might notice that the link to tinnitusrelief is in my signature. What I want is for the rest of the medical community - and for the researchers to wake up to the fact that muscle tension is a very important component of tinnitus in probably over 80-% of T people. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net The key to muscle tension and T is that you can't have anxiety when the muscles are fully relaxed. Without anxiety, you don't reinforce other symptoms such as itching, pain and T. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > The key to muscle tension and T is that you can't have anxiety when the muscles > are fully relaxed. Without anxiety, you don't reinforce other symptoms such as > itching, pain and T. Would breathing exercise itself be sufficient to stop the reinforcement cycle? FP --------------------------------- > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com Breathing exercises can be a distraction and any distraction may work to refocus the individual. For relaxation try this one. Breathe in hard for a count of 3-4 heartbeats. Breathe out slowly for 10 heartbeats. Increase the exhalation cycle each time slowly say... by one or two each time. As you relax you can increase the exhalation cycle up to about 35 heartbeats. This may take 3-15 minutes to get there but will improve with time and relearning to relax. You will be relaxed! > > The key to muscle tension and T is that you can't have anxiety when the muscles > > are fully relaxed. Without anxiety, you don't reinforce other symptoms such as [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Murray Grossan, M.D. > > http://www.ent-consult.com Would breathing exercise itself be sufficient to stop the reinforcement cycle? depends on which one. Using the mirror as a biofeedback device - SEE your face, jaw, etc relax as you breathe. in count of four and out count of six works. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com FOR HOW MANY MINUTES? Thanks, FP ======================= > Would breathing exercise itself be sufficient to stop the reinforcement cycle? > depends on which one. > Using the mirror as a biofeedback device - SEE your face, jaw, etc relax as you > breathe. in count of four and out count of six works. > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com The mirror biofeedback with breathing is ideally done for one minute 10 x a day. Anyway the minimus is 10 minuts. / day. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com At the point of being redundant, do you know of any patient who refuses to be on anti-anxiety drugs but is doing well both as a person and in his career simply through doing breathing exercies like this one? THX FP =================================== > Would breathing exercise itself be sufficient to stop the reinforcement cycle? > depends on which one. > Using the mirror as a biofeedback device - SEE your face, jaw, etc relax as you > breathe. in count of four and out count of six works. > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com At the point of being redundant, do you know of any patient who refuses to be on anti-anxiety drugs but is doing well both as a person and in his career simply through doing breathing exercies like this one? yes, many of my patients and those who have done this via www.tinnitusrelief.net Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > At the point of being redundant, do you know of any patient who > refuses to be on anti-anxiety drugs but is doing well both as a person [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > yes, many of my patients and those who have done this via > www.tinnitusrelief.net Thank you very much for having taught me to do breathing exercises last time. Today is the first day i have found myself very accepting of my T partly because of the breathing exercises you taught and partly because the moment i took away Dyazide from my blood pressure regimen, the ring stays in my left side and leaves the right side 'silent'. FP ======================================= > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com Because any inkling of a cure or remedy is squashed right away by the nay sayers. They bring up double blind studies that do not exist. They will tell you they are not peer reviewed. They will tell you endorsments mean nothing. Did you know there is no proven statistics to show intercourse can produce pregnancy? These people do not want a cure or a remedy so they can bitch and whine about their problems and how hard done by they are. They sit and stagnate in their wallow pf pity closing out the world that may help them. This is very common attitude for chronic illnesses. There is no hope and they are depressed. > Is it because the doctors have been trained to look into the wrong > area or the wrong direction? > > FP <snip> > Did you know there is no proven statistics to show intercourse can produce > pregnancy? <snip> I'm trying to picture a double-blind study to prove this. Lets see now, blindfolded group A uses dildos, blindfolded group B uses me..... Go ahead, say it, they would want to be blindfolded. :-) LOL...awesome! > <snip> > > Did you know there is no proven statistics to show intercourse can produce [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Go ahead, say it, they would want to be blindfolded. :-) > Did you know there is no proven statistics to show intercourse can produce > pregnancy? There sure are double-blind studies though. When I was in the Army in Oklahoma........never mind! PS "PaulS" <gatorz@bellsouth.net> wrote in part: >> Did you know there is no proven statistics to show intercourse can produce >> pregnancy? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >PS But the studies lacked placebos. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > "PaulS" <gatorz@bellsouth.net> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > But the studies lacked placebos. Predated the vasectomy huh? I think there are no cures for tinn because there is no TINN...........there are maybe a dozen types of TINN that can be approached thru different methods. We need to better categoize TINN so the types that can be helped with what is current can be reached......... MJ why no cure for T? as Marsh said there are probably a dozen causes.but a. we can't objectify it b. we can't make an experimental rat model c. we can't sample the fluid in the Cochlea d. we can't inject into the Cochlea f. we can't trace the path of T like we can pain g. when uyou cut the nerve the T may persist f. placebo and other Rx can be so effective as to invalidate most treatments there is more but... Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com f. is a really interesting point and I am sure if a thread was started regarding this arouse many flames and fights. > why no cure for T? > as Marsh said there are probably a dozen causes.but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com > why no cure for T? > as Marsh said there are probably a dozen causes.but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com My two cents: Recall the brain surgery performed, e.g., to reduce the effects of certain diseases that have no exact cure. In this surgery, the neurologist probes specific areas of the brain (I seem to recall the hippocampus, in one show) with the patient wide awake and providing feedback to the doctor. When the patient indicates "success" (this will vary with the disease), the doctor then applies an electrical pulse to that location. Assuming a similar model for tinnitus (either having its origin in the brain or finding a neural pathway that affects the perception of tinnitus), cannot a neurosurgeon probe to learn from the patient a location or locations that reduce the tinnitus? I am guessing from my own experience that, when the tinnitus is 24 hours a day, as is mine, some neural pathway might be probed for its effect on the perception of the high-pitched sound. It may be difficult or impossible to find such a pathway. I am suggesting only that if such a pathway could be found, an objective method (probing) can determine the impact on the patient's perception of tinnitus. Raphael, Engineer and perpetual student (aren't we all?) Actually this has been done. But not directly for tinnitus. The electrical stimulator was installed in the brains of people with advanced Parkinson's. Coincidentally, some of them also had tinnitus, and the deep brain stimulation provided relief from the T when the unit was turned on. As a side effect. This type of surgery, though, and implantation, is very risky and at this point, hard to justify for use in tinnitus. I do feel that this is the way of the future, though. A microscopic piece of engineering architecture, implanted at the right spot, to provide a low level steady state stimulus....like a micro chip......could be the long term answer to this problem. Perhaps seated in some easy fashion so as not to threaten the health of the person by opening the entire skull and brain. Marsha Johnson, M.S >The electrical >stimulator was installed in the brains of people with advanced Parkinson's. >Coincidentally, some of them also had tinnitus, and the deep brain >stimulation >provided relief from the T when the unit was turned on. As a side effect. ...................... Hi Marsha, This is amazing. I've heard and read about this treatment for Parkinson but have never heard that it had made any difference in peoples tinnitus. Recently there was some news about people suffering w/severe depression reportedly being helped by mri's. The'yd go in severly depressed and come out laughing. There bound to find a cure, but it will probably be by accident. - jean If they do find the cure Recently there was some news about people suffering w/severe depression reportedly being helped by mri's. The'yd go in severly depressed and come out laughing. they come out laughing, even when they see the bill??????? Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com >they come out laughing, even when they see the bill??????? They never do. They see the negotiated payment rate after it's paid by their insurer. Susan sufein@aol.comnospam (Susan ) wrote in part: >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Susan Not my experience. Not everyone has insurance to pay such things. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG All kidding aside, anyone coming out of an MRI exam laughing is VERY VERY unusual. They may sigh with relilef that it is all over with, but laughing?? I have never seen it. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com >All kidding aside, anyone coming out of an MRI exam laughing is VERY VERY >unusual. . .................... I Murray, I am not kidding. This was reported on Fox news a few weeks ago. They believed the change took place due to the magnetic fields and are continuing to look into this phenomenon. Some day rather than drugs/therapy or ect the severly depressed may go into their dr office and sit in a chair w/a magnetic hoop around there heads in order to change in mood :) I will try to pull up some info in the internet for you. - jean > >All kidding aside, anyone coming out of an MRI exam laughing is VERY VERY > >unusual. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > - jean So then, you admit to watching Fox (Faux) news? Remember, Jean, there was a study a while back indicating the more you watch Fox the dumber you get. :-) Bill >So then, you admit to watching Fox (Faux) news? Remember, Jean, there was a >study a while back indicating the more you watch Fox the dumber you get. ....................... Na, the more ya watch, the foxier ya get:) - jean ps Bush didn't lie :) > >So then, you admit to watching Fox (Faux) news? Remember, Jean, there was a > >study a while back indicating the more you watch Fox the dumber you get. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > - jean > ps Bush didn't lie :) Right, and he appointed a bunch of his buddies to prove it, > > ps Bush didn't lie :) > > > Right, and he appointed a bunch of his buddies to prove it, Okay guys. Put a lid on the politics. We have always gotten along here on ast except for the nut jobs, which you ain't. Let's endure the crazies and not create any contentious issues among the sane (of which I hesitantly include myself too) I am passionately political too, but not here. Happy dreams, PaulS >Okay guys. Put a lid on the politics .......................... Relax Paul - it was just a joke. - jean :) > >Okay guys. Put a lid on the politics > Relax Paul - it was just a joke. > > - jean :) Okeedokee, Relaxed Paul Fox news is not exactly Lancet or the New England Journal of Medicine. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > All kidding aside, anyone coming out of an MRI exam laughing is VERY VERY > unusual. They may sigh with relilef that it is all over with, but laughing?? I > have never seen it. I'm claustrophobic. Need pills to get into one of those things so I'm laughing all the way. PS > > why no cure for T? > > as Marsh said there are probably a dozen causes.but [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Raphael, Engineer and perpetual student (aren't we all?) Probing the auditory nerve or auditory cortex would be dangerous considering their surroundings. They can be probed with an electromagnetic field but without precision. Check this out: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/living/7152056.htm Bill "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message > But the studies lacked placebos. Sad to say, maybe not ;-) PS > Because any inkling of a cure or remedy is squashed right away by the nay > sayers. I agree with you. The first impression that anyone comes to alt.support.tinnitus is that there is no cure and you are doomed! FP =================================================== > They bring up double blind studies that do not exist. They will tell you > they are not peer reviewed. They will tell you endorsments mean nothing. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > FP It ceased becoming a support newsgroup when thr "Atlanta Idiot" started attacking people using various means when they disagreed with him. Many people stopped posting here. Many people have returned once per year and are disgusted that the "AI" is still here and the fights persist. Many people sit in the wings lurking, fearing to post because of some legal battle or intimidation that will pursue. Many decided to stand up and fight against the repression happenning. Some decided to side with the AI and some just wanted the fighting to stop and support to resume. This was tried several times over the years until each time another person was attacked and/or intimidated by the AI. Support here is nonexistant and will continue to be sparse until AI leaves. This has been promised many times but it was always proven to be a lie. > > Because any inkling of a cure or remedy is squashed right away by the nay > > sayers. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > > > FP > It ceased becoming a support newsgroup when thr "Atlanta Idiot" started > attacking people using various means when they disagreed with him. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > people sit in the wings lurking, fearing to post because of some legal > battle or intimidation that will pursue. Listen you miserable wretch, some of us don't post here because of you and your ilk. P Many decided to stand up and fight > against the repression happenning. Some decided to side with the AI and some > just wanted the fighting to stop and support to resume. This was tried [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > > > > > > > FP Many do not post here because of the AI and his Nazi henchmen. > > It ceased becoming a support newsgroup when thr "Atlanta Idiot" started > > attacking people using various means when they disagreed with him. [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > > > > > > > > > FP |
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