 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / March 2004Anyone with experience with Prosac?
My doctor advised me to take Prosac and slowly ease out of sleeping pills (ATIVAN) for my tinnitus. Any views welcomed. THX FP >My doctor advised me to take Prosac and slowly ease out of sleeping >pills (ATIVAN) for my tinnitus. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >FP ................. Prozac (an SSRI antidepressant) and Ativan (a benzodiazepine anxiolytic) represent two different families of drugs with two different modes of action and two different therapeutic ends. Your doctor likely has something in mind in making the switch, but unless we know what your he or she is trying to accomplish, I think it will be hard for anybody here to have an opinion on it. Did your doctor give you a reason? smn > >My doctor advised me to take Prosac and slowly ease out of sleeping > >pills (ATIVAN) for my tinnitus. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > be hard for anybody here to have an opinion on it. Did your doctor > give you a reason? Ativan was prescribed to me by *the doctor* who looks after my blood pressure and he did that because i was unable to sleep with the ringing in my brain/ear. With Ativan, I have been able to sleep better. My bp is quite OK now. This doctor admits he does not know how to treat tinnitus. Prosac was prescribed to me by *another* doctor who wants to help me cure tinnitus. He attributes my tinnitus to the anxiety in my inner mind. He is NOT aware that I am using Ativan as a sleeping pill but he is aware that I am using sleeping pills. His idea is: once Prosac roots out the anxiety in my inner mind, the ringing will stop and I will no longer need any sleeping pill. I am a bit unsure of this approach and that is why I am asking you guys for opinions. Currently I am applying a combined approach to cure my tinnitus with (1)herb treatment in day time and (2)ATIVAN for my sleeping at night, and have done so with a reasonable amount of success. But herb treatment takes a long time! The kinds of herbs employed are also meant to calm down the inner mind but on top of that nourishing the vital organs of the body such as the kidney. I will resort to Prosac _only after_ the on-going treatment fails A/O after I find out more about this drug named Prosac. Thank you for the reply. More views are cordially appreciated. FP > smn >Ativan was prescribed to me by *the doctor* who looks after my blood >pressure and he did that because i was unable to sleep with the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >will no longer need any sleeping pill. I am a bit unsure of this >approach and that is why I am asking you guys for opinions. ............. Well, I think that it is of the utmost importance that all prescibing doctors know exactly what you are on. For instance, as it turns out Ativan is a much better anti-anxiety drug than Prozac, which is used mostly for depression. According to the above, Doctor #2 wants to root out the anxiety with Prozac, but you are already on a drug prescribed by Doctor #1 thay does it "better" than Prozac. Also, FWIW I do not know of *any* drug or herb that will make the ringing stop, although the above seems to imply that Doctor #2 believes that the Prozac will do just that. Just my opinion. smn Just to say, I took prozac once when I first had tinnitus. My impression of it is different to what other people have said. To me it enabled me to take control of what was going on in my mind. Metaphorically, it was a bit like watching my thoughts on a PC monitor... eg Six things running through my mind... item 1 really stressfull, so I drag that window out of view. item 2 kinda ok, so I put that in the centre. item 3 (post a letter), must remember that, so I make that window small but visible bottom left. etc Very interesting , but I thought a bit too much, and figured maybe I could apply what I'd experienced that day withut actually using the drug. If you take the concept of controlling what you want to think to extreme, I can imagine how prozac could potentially be dangerous. But I think its ok I think its a drug that gives you control and choices. Having said all that, I only took it once, and in theory it could've all been just the remarkable mood of hopefulness I was in on that particular day, and nothing to do with the drug. Tony >Just to say, I took prozac once when I first had tinnitus. My >impression of it is different to what other people have said. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Tony ................. Relief is wonderful - no matter how it is achieved. But in terms of Prozac, it supposedly takes four weeks of daily use before any effect at all is noticed. Perhaps you are the exception, Tony. Or perhaps it was coincidental. However I do not belief that your experience taking Prozac but once would be considered typical. smn >But in terms of Prozac, it supposedly takes four weeks of daily use >before any effect at all is noticed. For full effect on depression, yes, but not for *any* effect. For anxiety, about one week. In my case, taking only one or two mg. of Prozac liquid by dropper caused severe side effects immediately, mental fogginess, motion sickness. It's not *inert* during the first four weeks, it just takes that long to reach its full antidepressant effect. Susan >For anxiety, about one week. ............... I was unaware of that, Susan. Thanks. Do you have a reference? smn > >For anxiety, about one week. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Do you have a reference? I am unable to read what Susan has to say in Google. Was she referring to Prosac? Rdg., FP > smn >Do you have a reference? Just years of experience with docs rxing it and clients taking it. And my own, trying the drops at one time. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Susan ................ I see. Thank you. I thought you were writing is as some kind of well-documented medical fact backed up by a study - not a personal experience and an opinion. Don't get me wrong, I respect your personal experience and opinion. But I do appreciate the clarification. I know of no literature supporting or recommending Prozac as an anti-anxiety drug, no less one that can be expected to relieve anxiety in one week. smn >I know of no literature supporting or recommending Prozac as an >anti-anxiety drug, no less one that can be expected to relieve anxiety >in one week. The anti anxiety effect of SSRIs is very well known by those experienced with these drugs. It kicks in faster than the antidepressant effect. So do many side effects. Folks with a lot of experience working with these drugs know this stuff. Susan >Folks with a lot of experience working with these drugs know this stuff. ................ An opinion? Because if it were a fact, the manufacturers of Prozac would most certainly put it in the literature accompanying their product, which they do not. They list the indications for Prozac as follows: 1) Depression 2) Obsessive-compulsive disorder 3) Bulemia That's it. Anxiety being more common than *all* of the above combined, if Prozac could be predictably expected to address anxiety any greater than placebo, anxiety would be listed as an indication. Folks with a lot of experience worling with these drugs know this stuff. smn >Anxiety being more common than *all* of the above combined, if Prozac >could be predictably expected to address anxiety any greater than >placebo, anxiety would be listed as an indication. > >Folks with a lot of experience worling with these drugs know this >stuff. I don't want to fight with you, I merely want to share information and experiences that may help another T sufferer. I am a great believer in, and admirer of those who are skilled at the practice of clinical medicine as an art. I mean those who learn how to practice and what works by listening to their patients. This is how psychiatry works best, especially, when it works at all. Susan Susan >I don't want to fight with you, I merely want to share information and >experiences that may help another T sufferer. .................. I don't want to fight with you either. I merely want to request that when you offer an opinion based upon your own experience, you make some effort to differentiate that opinion from some kind of documentable reproducible medical fact. You stated rather emphatically that Prozac will have a full effect on anxiety in about one week. That is an *opinion* Susan. It isn't a fact. It is an opinion that is supported by not a whit of reproducible medical evidence. Not one study. It is anecdotal, at best. By all means you and everyone else here should share information and experiences that may help another T sufferer. But if the "information" is opinion as opposed to fact please identify it as such, lest that other T sufferer be inadvertently led astray. smn >I don't want to fight with you either. I merely want to request that >when you offer an opinion based upon your own experience, you make >some effort to differentiate that opinion from some kind of >documentable reproducible medical fact. If you do a google search, you will find that antidepressants are a frequent, first line drug therapy for anxiety, contrary to what you believe. In my experience, and in the experience of the many psychiatrists I worked closely with, this effect kicks in much earlier than the antipressant effect, often as soon as one week. You seem to assert that antidepressant have no noticeable effect until 4 weeks have elapsed, when they suddenly spring into action, after being inert for a month. That's just not so. >You stated rather emphatically that Prozac will have a full effect on >anxiety in about one week. I think I said, I hope I said, that the antianxiety effect takes a week to kick in. I don't think I used the term "full effect", since serum maximum isn't reached by then. >That is an *opinion* Susan. It isn't a fact. It is an opinion that >is supported by not a whit of reproducible medical evidence. Not one >study. It is anecdotal, at best. It's a clinical fact, Stephen. It's supported by many years of clinical practice by doctors familiar with the use of such drugs. I believe in clinical medicine and in the observations of skilled specialists. >By all means you and everyone else here should share information and >experiences that may help another T sufferer. But if the >"information" is opinion as opposed to fact please identify it as >such, lest that other T sufferer be inadvertently led astray. I stand by my statements as fact, and as useful information for anyone considering the use of Prozac. Perhaps when you've worked with hundreds of psychiatric patients closely, you'll have similar information to share. Susan >I stand by my statements as fact, and as useful information for anyone >considering the use of Prozac. ............. I you want to stand by your opinions based on anecdote as FACT, then go right ahead. In my opinion it does a great disservice to those you are trying to help ... but then again, that's only my opinion. As to whether anecdotes represent useful information for anyone considering Prozac, I believe they probabably do ... but only when they are identified as anecdotes - so that the reader sees them in that light and does not rely on them too heavily. I again request that you do your best to differentiate opinions based on anecdote from fact based upon reproducible data and good studies. I would be pleased to carry out this discussion with you further by e-mail - but I believe we have both made our points as far as this newsgroup is concerned. smn > I again request >that you do your best to differentiate opinions based on anecdote from >fact based upon reproducible data and good studies. I'll do no such thing. I supplied facts of which you were unaware, not opinion. Perhaps as a chronic tick borne disease patient and a one time case manager and program executive in mental health, I'm especially aware of just how important clinical medicine is, as opposed to frequently misleading peer reviewed publications where conclusions aren't supported by the data, which are too often manipulated. Some recent examples are calcium channel blockers, Rezulin and HRT. It's well demonstrated that the true risks and benefits of drugs are not well known until they reach the marketplace where millions take them and either start dying til the drug is withdrawn, or benefitting. Susan >I'll do no such thing. ................ Didn't think you would. But I thought it was worth a shot, Susan. In my opinion folks who turn to boards and newsgroups searching for information deserve to have some idea of the basis upon which those offering that information draw their conclusions. But ... that's just my opinion. smn >>I'll do no such thing. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >smn Your opinion is condescending and worthless, per usual. You can't stand the fact that you don't know something that someone else does. But...that's just my opinion. Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport Ok... so from now on, all statements mad on AST must be fully annotated... LOL :P >Ok... so from now on, all statements mad on AST must be fully >annotated... LOL :P .............. Well, I think that statements presented as fact should be somehow supported. They don't need to be fully annotated, but an idea regarding whether or not a statement regadring a medication or a treatment is an opinion or a supportable fact might be helpful. smn >Well, I think that statements presented as fact should be somehow >supported. >They don't need to be fully annotated, but an idea regarding whether >or not a statement regadring a medication or a treatment is an opinion >or a supportable fact might be helpful. .................................... We understand training in the medical profession demands all information be supported by some kind of clinical study, double blinded study or proof. Generally speaking I think John Q Public is grateful for that. On the flip side newbies come to ast grasping at straws because the haven't gotten any help or answers from their health care professionals. To them ast is like a little private on-line clinic. Since they have no cause or cure for their tinnitus they turned to others to see what works and what doesn't. Was viagra intended to be presribed for erectile dysfunction - no, not until John Q Public started to report it's secondary benefit. :) Perhaps we shouldn't be so blindsighted to personal opinion. If prozak works - Good. If zoloft works - Good. If standing on your head at high noon in courthouse square works - Good. IMHO until they find a cure anybody's opinion is as good as anyone else's in this newsgroup. - jean > IMHO until they find a cure anybody's opinion is as good as anyone else's in >this newsgroup. .............. I absolutely agree. My concern is when a person's *opinion* is posted as a fact. Look, let's say - for instance - somebody posted that tick-borne disease is exceedingly rare and that those who would lead you to think otherwise are self-serving. If that were posted that, Susan would go through the roof and demand some kind of data to support such a (ludicrous, in my opinion) statement. So the person supports it with the the observation that a thousand doctors feel that way - so it must be so. Well, I would he the first (maybe the second) person to speak out. But that's what just happened here. Susan posted an opinion about Prozac as fact, an opinion not supported by a shred of data. And when pressed, she (finally) supported it by referring to "the experience of the many psychiatrists [she] worked closely with." Well, at least now we know it's an opinion. All I am saying - for the last time in this thread - is that "folks who turn to boards and newsgroups searching for information deserve to have some idea of the basis upon which those offering that information draw their conclusions." smn >But that's what just happened here. Susan posted an opinion about >Prozac as fact, an opinion not supported by a shred of data. And when [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >information deserve to have some idea of the basis upon which those >offering that information draw their conclusions." There's a big diff between the information I posted and yours. You said there was no lit on SSRIs that you knew of as indicated for anxiety. By now I expect you've done a search and seen that *all* the psych literature lists them as first line drugs for anxiety, as I stated. The difference is, I knew what I was talking about before offering the information and my only intention was to offer assistance to another T sufferer. Susan >The difference is, I knew what I was talking about ............. You offered an opinion and stated it as fact. Now go ahead and insist otherwise. Yell it from the rooftops. Scream it til the cows come home. But it won't change a thing. All I ask is that next time you do it, you make it clear that it's an opinion. But then again you've already said you'll "do no such thing." Fine. smn Can we please stop this already. I think everyone's position on this little tiff has been clearly stated and understood. > You offered an opinion and stated it as fact. >All I am saying - for the last time in this thread - is that "folks>who turn to boards and newsgroups searching for>information deserve to have some idea of the basis upon which those>offering that information draw their conclusions." ....................... When a medical professional is offering information or giving an opinion on an internet bulliten board and including their personal sig - then I belive the public has a right to believe there is a solid basis for *that* information. Otherwise, the information gleened here is offered by the students from the "College of Loud Rings" who don't have any proof. :) - jean marktvalu@aol.com (Marktvalu) wrote in part: >When a medical professional is offering information or giving an opinion on an >internet bulliten board and including their personal sig - then I belive the >public has a right to believe there is a solid basis for *that* information. > > Otherwise, the information gleened here is offered by the students from the >"College of Loud Rings" who don't have any proof. :) jean, I think anyone can cite a study in order to demonstrate the basis for a post. There's no great distinction between an MD and anyone else in a Usenet newsgroup.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG There's no great distinction between an MD and anyone else in a Usenet>newsgroup. .................. Oh Bullshit, The majority of people here are working 24/7 trying to keep their own careers afloat. We're lucky we get time to log on never mind cite medical studies. You underestimate the intelligence of the newsgroup. There are no morons here. These people know the difference between a medical professional and their professional designations and Joe T from Anywhere USA who's had a battle with tinnitus. Anyone holding themselves out as a medical professional and adding their sig line should be considered responsible for their post and have documentation to back it up. *You* are responsible for the information you write; *you* are experts in your field, that's what *you* get paid for. As a real estate professional if you give me information about your home and I respond with a value (verbal or written) that's an appraisal. I may get called into court to support my value. If so I would have back up the basis for that value. If I gave you information about my home and you offered your opinion of value it's an opinion. No one will haul you into court to defend that opinion. You are not an expert in that field. It's called professional ethics Citing medical studies in order to demonstrate a basis for every post is totally riduculous and no sane person expects it. All the medical geniuses in the world have yet to find a cure for tinnitus so they can stick their case studies in their ears. Now, let's try and put our ears together and find the cure. - jean marktvalu@aol.com (Marktvalu) wrote in part: >There's no great distinction between an MD and anyone else in a >Usenet>newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >professional designations and Joe T from Anywhere USA who's had a battle with >tinnitus. I think I consider many members of Usenet groups capable of citing (and understanding) relevant research. And I consider many MDs in Usenet newsgroups capable of speaking with authority about things they are wrong about. That's why citations are useful when "facts" are bandied about. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG >I think I consider many members of Usenet groups capable of citing (and >understanding) relevant research. Able, yes. But that has nothing to do with demanding it of others and telling them not to participate otherwise. Unacceptable, especially on alt.support. If I ever post same to sci.med.psychopharmacology, I'll be sure to furnish the cites. >And I consider many MDs in Usenet newsgroups capable of speaking with >authority about things they are wrong about. Yes, as when Stephen wrongly stated that SSRIs aren't commonly rx'ed for anxiety. That's >That's why citations are useful when "facts" are bandied about. I furnished facts, not "facts.". Facts come about by clinical observation, too. Drug marketing disasters often come about by the standard you seem to be advocating. This thread is in danger of Naglerizing ast again, so I'm quitting it. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >If I ever post same to sci.med.psychopharmacology, I'll be sure to furnish the >cites. ............... I **REQUESTED** a reference -I did not **DEMAND** it. And I never told you or anyone else not to participate. ................. >>And I consider many MDs in Usenet newsgroups capable of speaking with >>authority about things they are wrong about. > >Yes, as when Stephen wrongly stated that SSRIs aren't commonly rx'ed for >anxiety. ................. BULLSHIT. Show me where I ever stated that SSRI's are not commonly prescribed for anxiety. Here's what I said: "I know of no literature supporting or recommending Prozac as an anti-anxiety drug, no less one that can be expected to relieve anxiety in one week." .................. >That's >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >too. Drug marketing disasters often come about by the standard you seem to be >advocating. ................ You furnished opinions, not facts. Facts are valuable. Opinions are valuable. I asked only that when one offers an opinion, especially when one words it as a fact, that the person doing so have enough consideration to identify it as such - so that it can be taken in the proper context. ............... >This thread is in danger of Naglerizing ast again, so I'm quitting it. ............... Cheap shot, Susan. You showing your true colors - or is it just a moment of weakness? I'm going to asume the latter and wish you well. smn sufein@aol.comnospam (Susan ) wrote in part: >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >If I ever post same to sci.med.psychopharmacology, I'll be sure to furnish the >cites. I seem to have blundered into a fight without meaning to. I've been just skimming a.s.t. When i saw jean's post i wanted to reply. But I see now that I didn't know the full context of Jean's remarks. I only meant to defend the need for scientific data as produced in controlled trials. Such data belong in support groups, but so do other types of data and reports of experience. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG >I only meant to >defend the need for scientific data as produced in controlled trials. Such >data belong in support groups, but so do other types of data and reports of >experience. .................. Absolutely. Could not agree more. smn >jean, I think anyone can cite a study in order to demonstrate the basis for a >post. There's no great distinction between an MD and anyone else in a Usenet >newsgroup. ........................ How 'bout $250,000 a year and 10 years of med school? :) Listen, we love our professional's on ast to death and will defend you to the hilt, but give us a break with this "citing studies thing". We are not medical professionals - and your demands can and have been intimidating to newbies and others who would like to participate but are afraid of humiliation. Anyway, If I had time to "cite studies" I would'nt be taking to you guys, I'd be out making a fortune curing tinnitus patients. - peace jean :) marktvalu@aol.com (Marktvalu) wrote in part: >>jean, I think anyone can cite a study in order to demonstrate the basis for a >>post. There's no great distinction between an MD and anyone else in a Usenet [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > How 'bout $250,000 a year and 10 years of med school? :) 10 years for a doctorate is nothin', but $250,000 a year is worthy of contemplation as long as it doesn't interfere with fun. > Listen, we love our professional's on ast to death and will defend you to the >hilt, but give us a break with this "citing studies thing". > > We are not medical professionals - and your demands can and have been >intimidating to newbies and others who would like to participate but are afraid >of humiliation. There should be no demands and no humiliation. But the group's information is more valuable when it is clear what the information is based on. When it is, all kinds of information are valuable. > Anyway, If I had time to "cite studies" I would'nt be taking to you guys, I'd >be out making a fortune curing tinnitus patients. I wish it were that easy. > - peace > jean :) Peace to you, too. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG It seems to me that information provided to Susan by medical professionals she works closely with is a lot closer to being fact than it is opinion. Not meticulously gathered, published and peer reviewd data, but still fact. It wasn't just her opinion that doctors shared this information with her. Just my opinion of course. Jeff > But that's what just happened here. Susan posted an opinion about > Prozac as fact, an opinion not supported by a shred of data. And when > pressed, she (finally) supported it by referring to "the experience of > the many psychiatrists [she] worked closely with." Well, at least now > we know it's an opinion. Jeff Radom <jradomdeathtospammers@nycap.rr.com> wrote in part: >It seems to me that information provided to Susan by medical professionals she >works closely with is a lot closer to being fact than it is opinion. Not [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> the many psychiatrists [she] worked closely with." Well, at least now >> we know it's an opinion. Jeff, I think that groups like this get polarized over controlled studies vs opinion. In fact, everything is opinion. Some of it is more likely to hold up and remain opinion in the future, and some of it is likely to vanish without a trace. But there's a whole spectrum of evidence out there. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG >Ok... so from now on, all statements mad on AST must be fully >annotated... LOL :P Inappropriate for alt.support, I believe. I could have found many sources had I wanted to waste the time on but all I really care about is assisting the OP. Susan > >Folks with a lot of experience working with these drugs know this stuff. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > could be predictably expected to address anxiety any greater than > placebo, anxiety would be listed as an indication. IF it were approved for such use by the FDA. Perhaps this is a common (or less than common) "off label" use. >The anti anxiety effect of SSRIs is very well known by those experienced with >these drugs. It kicks in faster than the antidepressant effect. So do many >side effects. ........................................... Not sure about the SSRI's, my attempt to switch to zoloft last spring was unsuccessful. After a week of weaning off elavil and starting zoloft I became very anxious, bitchy, had major gastric problems and turned back into an insomniac. But my experience off/on elavil over the past 15 years has been a good one. Although literature says it takes 4-6 weeks to work it's effects are almost immediate for me. I usually regain my sleeping pattern the first night after taking it. The anti anxiety properties work within 24-48 hours. Considering anxiety is the major contributing factor to depression I have to agree with Susan (that antid's do relieve anxiety symptoms) way before the antidepressant effect kicks in. I *am* aware that elavil *is* one of the more sedating antidepressants out there. Although it may put one person into a coma I wake up cherry and feeling well rested. I would highly recommend anyone asking their dr about trying this drug if they are experiencing anxiety/depression and sleeplessness due to tinnitus. Elavil (amitriptilyne) was introduced in the 1950's. It is a tricyclic antidepressant less frequently used these days because it can be fatal if overdosed, however it is still considered a first class drug in use of major depressive disorder. just my personal 2 cents - jean I've taken Prozac (fluoxetine) for the depression I experienced resulting from tinnitus and pulsatile tinnitus. My experience is that it worked very well: it elevates the mood and turns the focus of the mind outwards instead of in on the tinnitus. The tinnitus is just as bad but it now doesn't seem so bad. I think fluoxetine can accelerate habituation in sensitive individuals. In my experience it has no effect on anxiety and I believe that in some cases it can actually increase agitation. Benzodiazepines hit a completely different site in the brain to the SSRIs. If it is required, some sedative effect is provided by the noradrenergic class of anti depressant, such as mirtazapine/Zispin. They do tend to make you put on weight but they are better than bezodiazepines as they are non-addictive and they will also help you sleep, unlike Prozac. John > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Susan Might be of interetst? 1: Behav Pharmacol. 2001 Jun;12(3):151-62. Related Articles, Links An investigation of the mechanisms responsible for acute fluoxetine-induced anxiogenic-like effects in mice. Belzung C, Le Guisquet AM, Barreau S, Calatayud F. EA 3248 Psychobiologie des emotions, UFR Sciences et Techniques, Tours, France. belzung@univ-tours.fr Although selective 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are widely used in the chronic treatment of several anxiety disorders, increased anxiety has been observed in some patients at the beginning of treatment with these compounds. Similar increases in anxiety-related behaviors have been observed in animal studies following a single injection with SSRIs. The mechanism underlying this effect is unclear. The aim of the present study was to investigate the effects of a variety of psychoactive compounds on the anxiogenic-like activity of fluoxetine. The drugs used included the benzodiazepine diazepam, the 5-HT1A receptor partial agonist buspirone, the 5-HT1A receptor antagonists pindolol and WAY-100635, the non-selective 5-HT2 receptor antagonists methiothepin, mianserin and ritanserin, the non-selective dopamine (DA) receptor antagonist haloperidol, the D1 antagonist SCH23390, the selective D2 antagonist raclopride, the D2/3 agonist quinelorane, the cholecystokininB (CCK(B)) receptor antagonist LY 288513, and the corticotropin-releasing factor1 (CRF1) receptor antagonist CP-154,526. Experiments were performed in the free-exploration test. This model is based on the strong neophobic reactions exhibited by BALB/c mice when confronted simultaneously with a familiar and a novel environment. When administered alone, diazepam (1 and 2 mg/kg), buspirone (1 mg/kg) and mianserin (0.3 mg/kg) produced anxiolytic-like effects as they significantly increased exploratory activity of the novel compartment. In contrast, fluoxetine (20 mg/kg) almost completely suppressed exploration of the novel area. Diazepam reversed the anxiogenic-like as well as the locomotor impairment induced by fluoxetine, while quinelorane blocked only the anxiogenic action of fluoxetine. None of the other compounds was able to counteract this effect. Taken together, these results suggest that dopaminergic mechanisms may underlie, at least in part, the behavioral effects of fluoxetine in the free-exploration test, whereas 5-HT1A 5-HT2, CCK(B) and CRF1 receptors may not be involved primarily in these effects. > I've taken Prozac (fluoxetine) for the depression I experienced resulting > from tinnitus and pulsatile tinnitus. My experience is that it worked very [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > > Susan Another: Periodicals Home Search User Pref Help OHNS Home Current Issue All Issues Order About this Journal << Issue >> Issue March 1998 . Volume 118 . Number 3 Fluoxetine for Treatment of Tinnitus . Previous article in Issue . Next article in Issue . Drug links from Mosby's DrugConsult . Genetic information from OMIM . Citation of this Article . View on PubMed . Download in citation manager format . Download in Medlars format . Related articles in PubMed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- To the Editor: Several recent articles have advocated the use of certain anxiolytics or antidepressants for the treatment of tinnitus. These have included alprazolam and nortriptyline. Recently, three patients presented to me with intractable subjective tinnitus that was interfering with their sleep. Findings of a workup that included an audiogram, tympanogram, and MRI were normal except for a high-tone sensorineural hearing loss. Conservative treatment with vitamins and stress relief was ineffective. A trial with low-dose fluoxetine (10 mg every day) completely abolished the tinnitus in all three patients within 1 week. As a head and neck surgeon, I do not see a large volume of patients with tinnitus. Perhaps a double-blind study with fluoxetine should be undertaken in a center with a large number of patients with this symptom, given the encouraging result of this anecdotal report. Larry Shemen, MD, FRCS FACS 233, E. 69th St., Suite 1D, New York, NY 1002123/8/84692 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Might be of interetst? > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > > > > > Susan I have a friend with mental depression. When she goes off medication the depression worsens after about 3 days. If she resumes the meds there is some kind of improvement within 20 minutes or so. But the full effect can take 2-3 weeks. Elly. >>For anxiety, about one week. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >smn Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net >If she resumes the meds there is some kind of improvement within 20 >minutes or so. But the full effect can take 2-3 weeks. I don't know what kind of antidepressant she's on, but some have a sedating effect, and this usually kicks in quickly, as opposed to the antidepressant effect, which takes weeks. Effexor is one drug that I've often heard this about. Many folks complain of feeling just awful if they're late for a dose or miss a pill, and this feeling goes away once they take the dose. It's also very difficult for many folks to titrate down off this drug. Susan It takes a long time for fluoxetine/Prozac to wash out of the system. More than 3 days, I believe. John > I have a friend with mental depression. When she goes off medication > the depression worsens after about 3 days. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net > >For anxiety, about one week. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > smn This is the kind of post that starts the sh.t we are trying to eliminate from this group. Think about it Stephen. Didn't you sign the peace accord? Please don't tell us you meant anything other than the obvious. >This is the kind of post that starts the sh.t we are trying to eliminate >from this group. ............... I asked for a damned reference. Where's the crime? Oh. Forget it. I see you are being judge and jury here. If the lady had a reference for her assertion that in one week's time Prozac has demontrated efficacy against anxiety, we'd have been long done here. .................... >Didn't you sign the peace accord? ................. I signed an accord that I would not respond to trolls. And I have NOT responded to trolls. Are you somehow suggesting that Susan is a troll? Because I am not of that opinion. smn > >This is the kind of post that starts the sh.t we are trying to eliminate > >from this group. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > smn Say what you will, Stephen, but take a look at the posts subsequent to the one I take issue with. I seriously doubt my comment was a self fulfilling prophecy. >Say what you will, Stephen, but take a look at the posts subsequent to the >one I take issue with. ................. Oh, I looked at 'em OK. Seems I was making a very reasonable request that when folk here offer an opinion on a medical issue they identify it as such as opposed to presenting it as fact. I am sorry that some here apparently have a problem with that. smn >I asked for a damned reference. >Where's the crime? ............................ Point is, nobody expected a reference from Sue. She gave her opinion based upon her lifes experience as most of us do in this forum. Now lets all kiss and make up :) - jean >>I asked for a damned reference. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Point is, nobody expected a reference from Sue. ................ Jean, I expected a reference from Susan. ................... > She gave her opinion based upon her lifes experience as most of us do in this >forum. .................. ... and stated rthat opinion as fact, which most of us in this forum do not do. .................. > Now lets all kiss and make up :) .................. Works for me. Sleep well, all! Here's to a better day tomorrow! smn > Jean, I expected a reference from Susan. Ok... but I don't think anyone else did. >Jean, I expected a reference from Susan. ........................ I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but if you do a google search titled prozak in the treatment of anxiety you will call up 5060 articles. It's too late to cite text but there are obviously some anti anxiety benefits from prozak. - jean > I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but if you do a google search titled >prozak in the treatment of anxiety you will call up 5060 articles. ................ Jean, I'm not going to beat a dead horse either -- but before I requested some sort of reference from Susan, I did a Yahoo search (not a Google search, but same idea. There were tons of hits, but in the 10-15 minutes I spend wading through many of them, I found no evidence that Prozac was effective in the treatment of anxiety. All I wanted was one study or one authoritative statement. Finding none, I asked Susan for a reference - so she might point me to the one she used in stating for a fact that Prozac could effectively treat anxiety in a week. Her response was reasonable, in my opinion. She said that she was basing her statement on years of experience with doctors prescribing it and clients taking it - and her own experience as well. So I THANKED her, I said that I RESPECTED her opinion, and I said that I APPRECIATED THE CLARIFICATION. Here's my response in its entirety: ................ >I see. Thank you. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >anti-anxiety drug, no less one that can be expected to relieve anxiety >in one week. ................ It could have stopped right there, you know. But it didn't. Now don't lay that one on me. smn You know, there is something to this that has not been said: Even in the best of scientific controlled factor studies, there are often a small percentage who have positive results when the vast majority of participants do not. For example, a new medication may help only 3 out of 100 people with tinnitus. The fact that 97 % are not helped will be enough to drive that medicine into the grave, right? Well. Think of the 3! For them, maybe it was 100 % success. So..........maybe you are thinking, so what? Probably something else or some coincidence or they are just nutty people or so on............right? Well.....Research must always take into account that there literally cannot be full control on their studies because we are not dealing with identical subjects. Regardless of age matching or sex, primary diagnosis, or more...........these are only a few of the millions of unique characteristics that embue the human body not to mention the soul qualities of will force, temperament, and residual strength of self! What I have found in my clinical practice is an endless fascination and appreciation for the complexities of the human being: case histories can take 2 or 3 hours..........and I try hard to grasp at a whole picture of the person sitting with me. What is it about them that can help them in their own tinnitus management? What tools do they carry in their bodies and minds that can help see them through the tough times? How do medications affect them, as unique chemical finite entities, as bounded environments with unique chemical and emotional reactions to everything that comes near? I have 1 patient who take literally find relief taking 1/4 tab of klonopin every 10 days or so.........the pharmacists would cry, Nonsense! But it is true, for him and that can never be Nonsense. I don't put my faith in scientific studies, per se, or in quick fix buy-it-here products, but I do believe in the innate strength and stark beauty of the human being, who can repeatedly find the courage and will to strive once again to overcome obstacles. And that quality is what brings many people here, searching for answers or ideas or opinions or facts......... Happy Advent Season to All Of You and take time for yourselves. Marsha Johnson >You know, there is something to this that has not been said: > >Even in the best of scientific controlled factor studies, there are often a >small percentage who have positive results when the vast majority of >participants do not ... ................. Long and complex issue. But in a properly done controlled study, which is what I think you are talking about, the issue is not those who have an effect from a medication vs those who do not have an effect from the medication. It is whether *any effect* observed is due to the medication at all. There are - to be sure - shortcomings in controlled studies, but if the study were done properly, missing a 3% positive outcome would not typically be one of them. At least that's how I see it. smn >This is the kind of post that starts the sh.t we are trying to eliminate >from this group. ................... Yeah, but at least it's clean, healthy sh.t! - jean Prozac and the rest of the SSRI's did not do anything for my T (except make it worse, dull me to life, and reduce my sex drive). New antidepressants that act by way of increasing Dopamine/Norepinephrine/ can make your T even that much worse. I have taken every benzo on the market. Ativan and the other's can make you care less about the noise but it has been my experience that Xanax actually reduced the intensity. Ask your doctor for Xanax XR instead of the Ativan. Unless you are depressed I would not want to take an anti-depressant. It has been my experience that this classification of drugs did little or actually made my Tinnitus even worse (as well as caused insomnia). > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Susan > Relief is wonderful - no matter how it is achieved. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > smn Yes But IF it was an illusion (perhaps caused by my having read positive reports at the time about the new 'wonder drug'), it was one helluvan experience. I was zapped for the day. For example, Usually quite nervous with top management, I remember cornering one of the bosses, talking the leg off him, and wondering if I really sounded as interesting as I believed, or if it was the prozac talking.... and then, later on I was truly eloquent talking to a girl in a cafe... I was really "out there" for the day, and basically I had a wonderful time. Hard to believe it wasn't a chemically induced experience. I cant imagine sustaining a misconception about the drugs affects for 8 hours or so. If I'd been younger and less responsible, I could've made a hobby of it, but I kinda like knowing that my achievements are mine alone and not chemically induced. Truly an experience though. It fitted precisely with what I imagined prozac'd be according to what I'd read prior, but curiously nothing like what I've read about the effects since. Re the current comments on how prozac has its affect, how can a psycho-drug take weeks to become noticeable? Surely there will be an effect as soon as it interferes with neuro-transmission. My personal view is that the experience I had was really caused by prozac, and it is a bit of a subtle effect that could easily have passed by unnoticed. I'll have to check a prozac board & see what they say. Tony >Re the current comments on how prozac has its affect, how can a >psycho-drug take weeks to become noticeable? Right. It doesn't take weeks for effects of the drug to be noticeable, but for a depressed person, it will typically take 4 weeks for the antidepressant effect to be fully effective, or effective at all. And that's only if they've gotten the right AD drug and/or the right dose. Susan Are you still on it? Is your tinnitus gone? Thanks, FP ============================================= > Just to say, I took prozac once when I first had tinnitus. My > impression of it is different to what other people have said. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Tony How are you controlling the 'ringing' now? THX FP ============================= > Just to say, I took prozac once when I first had tinnitus. My > impression of it is different to what other people have said. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Tony > >Ativan was prescribed to me by *the doctor* who looks after my blood > >pressure and he did that because i was unable to sleep with the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > ringing stop, although the above seems to imply that Doctor #2 > believes that the Prozac will do just that. Thank you so much. Actually I learned of the drug ALPRAZOLAM from your website and went to tell my internist. He gave me ATIVAN instead as a sleeping pill. It helps me sleep and I am extremely grateful to you for having created the website to help all of us. The new question I wish to ask is this: should I move to XANX 0.25 mg, taken two times daily and do away with ATIVAN _OR_ just stay with ATIVAN as a sleeping pill. I am taking herbs in day time. Some herbs do stop the ringing but you have to boil a whole bunch of herbs everyday and it is very troublesome. I *hope* that the prolonged use of herbs may eventually stop my tinnitus. As my herbs treatment gains momentum, I will gradually trim the 0.5mg ATIVAN and see if I could move out of it completely. I will let your guys know how I go after another month. The herbs I am taking are meant to calm me down, like ATIVAN, and at the same time invigorate the vital organs in my body. My tinnitus came out at the time when I was feeling too anxious that my blood pressure was getting out of control. Now, it is quite comfortably controlled. Once again, thank you for your advice and more advices are welcomed. Rdg., FP > Just my opinion. > > smn >My doctor advised me to take Prosac and slowly ease out of sleeping >pills (ATIVAN) for my tinnitus. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >FP My first thought is that you need to be sure all of your doctors are on the same page with respect to your prescriptions. My second is to wonder if you are seeing a doctor you trust given the nature of your questions. When you are taking such medications as Prosac and Ativan you need to be clear why your doctor has prescribed them. None of us on the internet can tell you whether it is good or bad because we don't know enough about your individual case and other conditions you might be treated for. Please ask your doctor some of these questions and don't rely on anecdotal information you receive on the internet for these types of medical issues. Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport When i get more time i will tell you how absurb these ear specialists are. Now, it is a 'mental doctor' that takes care of me. But currently I am very interested in hearing a successful story that tinnitus has been cured by the use of Prosac or at least controlled to the point that ringing no longer bothers. FP ============================= > >My doctor advised me to take Prosac and slowly ease out of sleeping > >pills (ATIVAN) for my tinnitus. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport >From: fyfpoon@hotmail.com (francispoon) write: >Now, it is a 'mental doctor' that takes care of me. ................................. No shame in that. You have experienced a great loss. Your loss of silence. I doubt most of the population can deal with this alone. Give prozak a try under your dr supervision. If it doesn't work ask to try something else. It took me about 3 months to notice a lessening in both the number of bad ear days and the diminishing of the volume of the T. Although your antid will not likely cure your T - it may relieve the secondary symptoms (depression and anxiety) and help level the playing field while you acclimate your tinnitus. - jean Thank you for the concern. For the time being, I will take Stephen's advice and stick to Ativan as a way to help me sleep. The buzzing sound seems less these days and hopefully someday I will find a cure by finding out the CAUSE of my T. FP ======================================= > >From: fyfpoon@hotmail.com (francispoon) write: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - jean >Thank you for the concern. For the time being, I will take Stephen's >advice and stick to Ativan as a way to help me sleep. The buzzing >sound seems less these days and hopefully someday I will find a cure >by finding out the CAUSE of my T. > >FP .................... FP, I said that Ativan is a much better anti-anxiety drug than Prozac. But my *advice* is for you to discuss this situation thoroughly with your own doctor, discuss the pros and cons of both drugs (and others) with your doctor especially with respect to your own particular situation, and then follow your doctor's recommendation. That's my advice. Best to you. smn > >Thank you for the concern. For the time being, I will take Stephen's > >advice and stick to Ativan as a way to help me sleep. The buzzing [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > situation, and then follow your doctor's recommendation. That's my > advice. Thank you Stephen. I am more and more convinced that my T might have been caused by a prolonged period of stress and trauma. I have just found a site that explains different kinds of tinnitus: http://www.t-gone.com/index2.htm May God bless you! FP ===================================== > Best to you. > > smn Stephen Nagler <nagler@tinn.com> wrote in message snipped... > FP, I said that Ativan is a much better anti-anxiety drug than Prozac. > But my *advice* is for you to discuss this situation thoroughly with > your own doctor, discuss the pros and cons of both drugs (and others) > with your doctor especially with respect to your own particular > situation, and then follow your doctor's recommendation. That's my > advice. How is Ativan different from the Xanax? The doctor prescribed Ativan for me to help me with the sleep but he is not an ear specialist himself and admits he does not know how to cure tinnitus. I have no medication for the daytime ringing which seems to get less these days. FP ================================ > Best to you. > > smn >Stephen Nagler <nagler@tinn.com> wrote in message >snipped... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >FP ............... Ativan (loprazepam) and Xanax (alprazolam) are both members of the benzodiazepam family. They are both *primarily anti-anxiety drugs* and tend also to have a sedating effect. [Let me add that contrary to what you may have read elsewhere on this newsgroup in the past few days, Prozac is *not* considered a first-line anti-anxiety drug. In fact, the use of Prozac for anxiety - while it certainly happens - is "off-label" and cannot be supported by even one controlled study.] The half-life of Xanax is 12 +/- 2 hours. The half-life of Ativan is 14 +/- 5 hours. That means that Ativan stays in your system slightly longer than Xanax. When the time comes to discontinue the medication, both drugs require gradual tapering rather than abrupt cessation if they have been taken on a regular basis. Because of individual variation, some folks may respond better to one drug over the other - even though both are in the same family. Neither Xanax not Ativan cure tinnitus. There is one published study that concludes that Xanax taken three times a day can lower tinnitus volume - but the study was, in my opinion, not well-controlled. There are no published studies attesting to similar efficacy for Ativan, but there are some anecdotal reports suggesting that it can be used for tinnitus in a similar way as Xanax. Of utmost importance is that neither drug should be taken without a knowledgeable physician monitoring the course of medication. Hope this helps. smn >Ativan (loprazepam) and Xanax (alprazolam) are both members of the >benzodiazepam family. ............... Correction. That should be benzodiazepine rather than benzodiazepam. smn > >Stephen Nagler <nagler@tinn.com> wrote in message > >snipped... [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > gradual tapering rather than abrupt cessation if they have been taken > on a regular basis. I wonder how it can ever be stopped. Last night I tried to cut my 0.5 mg Ativan into half after using it for a few days and with observed improvement but the buzz right away bounces back today. I used to suspect that it was hydrochloridiaziade in my bp regime that caused me the tinnitus. Now, I seem to feel that this demon has to be under expensive medical control for a long time. That mental doctor who prescribed Prosac to me did so because he feels one needs to build a base of anti-anxiety/depression medicine in the body in order that tinnitus does not bounce back once the sleeping pill at night is taken off. What do you think of that argument? Rdg., FP ==================================== > Because of individual variation, some folks may respond better to one > drug over the other - even though both are in the same family. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > smn >I wonder how it can ever be stopped. Last night I tried to cut my 0.5 >mg Ativan into half after using it for a few days and with observed [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >FP ................ FP, I have tried to present to you facts regarding various drugs, facts based on hard data and controlled studies. Others here (like Susan) have also presented *very helpful* material about various drugs and the use of those drugs in clinical practice as they understand it. But in terrms of my commenting - pro or con - regarding a strategy (or the logic behind that strategy) recommended by a doctor who has the advantage of knowing you and has personally evaluating you, I'm just not going to go there. IF you have significant doubts or concerns, then you can always consider a second opinion - from another doctor who will personally evaluate you. Best to you - smn |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.