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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / October 2003O/T For Bruce...the Nagler threats he is looking for
Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the newsgroup with more "Naglerisms." Since you are unable to find that which you don't want to. I took 5 minutes of my time to accomplish this for you. Unfortunately we'll likely see you claiming nothing took place. You really need to stop being an enabler. And as I have said before, his anger is misguided. When you and he discuss your next transparent ploy in e-mail, be sure he is aware of that because I have no idea, personally, what he is talking about. I am rather amused at his compulsion and as a human being with feeling, I do think he needs to find some help somewhere. Take note of the last one. There well could be a current investigation of an innocent man whom he has called a "disabled pig." It won't affect me and that is the truly sad part. He thinks he has struck pay dirt ...AGAIN... and the well will be empty. Nate From: Stephen Nagler <nagler@tinn.com> Newsgroups: alt.support.tinnitus Subject: Re: Tinnitus - SS - and deleted posts Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:58:55 GMT On 29 Aug 2003 12:39:18 GMT, sufein@aol.comnospam (Susan Fein) wrote: >So he's essentiall doing to you what you tried to do to him. ............... There's a difference. A *HUGE* difference. I never acted. My "Letter to the Judge" post was a response to a letter-writing campaign that he had already initiated. He had already sent out numerous letters. But I never sent out the "Letter to the Judge." And I told him I never sent it out. And more than that, I apologized to him privately and him and this board publicly for even posting such a thing. His response? A coordinated campaign to destroy my reputation and my life. Countless letters. Countless phone calls. Countless lies and half truths. Quotes totally out of context for the express purpose of putting me in the worse possible light. And Yoli's attempt to get my license revoked? All choreographed by Conlon. How do I know? Because as luck would have it, Conlon called the Georgia Medical Board investigator on his cell phone when the man happened to be in my office. Conlon is no more disabled than Jim Chinnis. Conlon has tinnitus and a number of other very unpleasant maladies. No question about that. But disabled? If this man were a project manager for a five and dime, the company would be in the Fortune 500 in a year. ................. >The difference is that at the beginning, he never set out to harm you, he just >tried to keep you from harming him and his family. .................... The difference is that I never *DID* anything to harm him. He, on the other hand, has totally devoted two years of his life to harming me. smn **************************************************** Then: From: Stephen Nagler <nagler@tinn.com> Newsgroups: alt.support.tinnitus Subject: Re: Tinnitus - SS - and deleted posts Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:03:07 GMT .............. A two-year campaign against me and my family by a very capABLE person who has defrauded the government (IMO) is enough for me to request an investigation. Whether the government pursues it is not up to me. In Lix's case, the government pursued. In Conlon's case - who knows. ................. >Lix and Conlon are not in the least bit comparable. .............. They are brothers under the skin. ................. > Lix was strictly a >harasser and criminal in his behavior. ................. And Conlon actually acts where Lix only threatened. .............. >Conlon had a legitimate reason to be here, tried to post helpful info for >others who might need disability, and was viciously harassed by you on this >"support" forum. He was defending himself against you from then on. ................. He is a fraud - in my opinion. And you are an enabler. .............. >You're trying to take a low swipe at me for collecting disability legitimately? > (I continue to pay taxes on all of it, BTW.) ............... Not taking any sort of low swipe at you. Just commenting that you are biased. .............. >What I have isn't bias, as if all disabled people are the malingerers you >continue to imply we are. I have years of professional advocacy for disability >benefits for disabled adults behind me, too. > >What I have is knowledge, to combat the ignorance (and animus) you so >frequently and flamboyantly display here about SSDI eligibility. .............. I am not going to get into a pissing match with a disabled person. My heart goes out to you in that regard. All I am saying is that in my opinion Conlon has committed fraud against the US government - unfairly laying claim to taking that taxpayer money you referred to above. Was I fully prepared to let things lie? Sure. But after two years Conlon's of demonstrating how ABLE he is (in my opinion), I have decided to do something about it. I have decided something else - I have decided that I am through talking about it. smn *********************************************************** From: Stephen Nagler <nagler@tinn.com> Newsgroups: alt.support.tinnitus Subject: Re: Tinnitus - SS - and deleted posts Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:39:38 GMT On 29 Aug 2003 13:29:18 GMT, sufein@aol.comnospam (Susan Fein) wrote: >>His response? A coodinated campaign to destroy my reputation and my >>life. Countless letters. Countless phone calls. Countless lies and >>half truths. Quotes totally out of context for the express purpose of >>putting me in the worse possible light. And Yoli's attempt to get my >>license revoked? All choreographed by Conlon. How do I know? >>Because as luck would have it, Conlon called the Georgia Medical Board >>investigator on his cell phone when the man happened to be in my >>office. Conlon is no more disabled than Jim Chinnis. Conlon has >>tinnitus and a number of other very unpleasant maladies. No question >>about that. But disabled? If this man were a project manager for a >>five and dime, the company would be in the Fortune 500 in a year. > >More slander and interjection of your ignorant and misguided practice of >clinical diagnostics over the internet. > >Being able to type a lot at times one feels up to posting on the internet is no >indication of work ability. In fact, my disability carrier reps are trained to >understand that it's a sign of how disabled one is, heavy reliance on the >internet for interaction, etc... ................ That will be for the courts to consider if the government decides to pursue a fraud case against Conlon. We saw the same thing with Lix. Nobody thought the (Canadian) government would take it seriously - until he was arrested in front of his wife and children. The government is LOOKING for excuses to pursue Internet harrassment issues. They now have a whole division devoted to it. I understand and respect your bias in this whole affair - you should understand it too. smn > Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring > this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the [quoted text clipped - 164 lines] > > smn If this was all orchestrated by Conlon, and can be proved, I will apologise for any acridity which I generated towards Dr Nagler. William, If Conlon is disabled he should be livid that someone with no connection to his case and no idea of his physical condition would threaten to make it his "project" to get his benefits investigated out of spite. All we have is people speculating whether or not someone is "Conlon" on ast. What could easily be taking place is that Conlon is living his life and minding his own business and has no idea that people making these threats. These same folks speculated that I was Mary, Yoli, Kelly and whomever else suited their purpose at the time. It is hard to tell when they mean it or when they are "crying wolf". Terri >> Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring >> this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the [quoted text clipped - 173 lines] >If this was all orchestrated by Conlon, and can be proved, I will apologise >for any acridity which I generated towards Dr Nagler. http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport A disabled man posting inappropiately on the internet ! Witch ! Witch ! Burn the Witch ! Look Martin Von Buffalo is an ignorant a.s who has said maney inappropiate things in this newsgroup that he would not dare say in public face to face conversations. He would get his a.s whupped unless he was packing and I doubt that. The pics that been showing up here show him with some kids on stage, probly his and he's probly a good dad. He ain't carrying any heat. I guess the point of this is kinda to say I think a lot of you have lost the point, I think ??? The name of this group is alt.support.tinnitus . If we examine the title closely we see the word support. Support is the thought that should crop up first ya think ? Now a few of you are going to be thinking he's preaching to the choir or who is this a.shole ? You maybe the choir and I may be an a.shole but that does not release responsibility from you and your part. I am guilty also of polluting this newsgroup at times. So what is the solution ? Focus me thinks. The running argument here for the past fews years needs to be settled, probly in court, with an audience which would please a few egos in a strange way. Secondly, there are a few moderate people on this board and I think they need to speak up more for the interest of support. It is my opinion that if you post here you have a responsibility and moral obligation to approach this board in a certain light. What is that light to you ? A long time ago in a land far, far, away this board was a good board. That is old history, it is gone. Let new history begin, with appropiate thought flowing for the needs OF THOSE WHO SUFFER OUR AFFLICTION AND NEED US. Quell your thoughts quickly please. Just think about what I said. Think about how you used to be, in your early stages of T, confused and wandering. They wander in here now and they run. You know they do. Were do they go ? Were they our responsibility ? This newsgroup is flame central. This newsgroup is almost completely polarized. Almost. I'm rambling more, the coffee's wearing off. Give my scattered thoughts a little time in your beaner. Tomorrow we can be cool and angry. Today lets think about obligations and actions to further the cause of support. Sonny Not to mention all the smarmy comments about "helping Steve find a job". Why would anyone need to help him find a job if they weren't implying something was up with his disability benefits? No one mentioned it but Nagler. Nagler said he was going to make it his "project" to find Steve a job. And while we are at it, I have known a number of people that have qualified either permanently or temporarily for disability. For the most part they are decent people that would much rather be working than not be able to work because of their physical or mental limitations. The most recent of which just passed away last week after two years with stomach cancer. She spent the year that she was on disability planning her funeral, selling her house, saying goodbye to her friends, giving away her clothing and other possessions and finding someone to raise her 10 year old daughter because she was a single mother with no family in this country. I'm reminded of it because I'm watching the Yankees game and the last time I heard from her was a week before her death. She was in the hospice and said "the nurses are teaching me about baseball--I finally have the time to learn about baseball." Terri >Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring >this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the [quoted text clipped - 164 lines] > >smn http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport >She spent the year that she was on disability planning her funeral, >selling her house, saying goodbye to her friends, giving away her >clothing and other possessions and finding someone to raise her 10 >year old daughter because she was a single mother with no family in >this country. That was a tough story to read. I have a personal friend with a similar story and two kids and I watched it unfold. It is very hard to watch, let alone be there as a spouse. I know a woman whose husband died suddenly at 40 or 41 from a heart attack. Her regret is not being able to say goodbye. But 5 years after his death, she said it was easier than watching a woman whose husband had stopped drinking a few years earlier suddenly develop liver and pancreatic cancer. I knew that woman also. She felt like she had gotten her husband back and then he was taken away. The one with the sudden death said that as morbid as the conversation might be, her husband didn't suffer and he knows that she loved him. As to Nagler screwing with anybody's business but his own, I suspect that the recent interlude would remove all credibility from the person screaming "J'accuse." I find it very interesting as a life experience to see such a mind at work as I have never seen anything like it. It's a wonderful case study, IMO, for someone working on a thesis in the mental health field. I would think the angle would be a practicing doctor ends up suffering from depression and in bed for a year from an ailment that most manage to still function with at least to the extent that they are not bed-ridden. (I am assuming a year in bed is non-functional under a mental health criteria.) Then he thinks he is helping people with a treatment for his own condition [and I admit that's a very noble idea] but it collapses and he seems to be right back to where he originally was. Oh, and if anyone dare criticize "the pill" it is like telling someone just out of rehab that they don't know everything. I just wish he wouldn't take his problems out on this forum. At least that is how I see it with comments like "countless phone calls" and "countless letters" yet he can't say where they are coming from. A very small part of me feels sorry for him. But when I read all the hateful things that he has said, and consider that he was once a practicing physician and now is calling people pigs and frauds, it's rather difficult. About the best I can do is keep suggesting he stay away from here as it is clearly a problem for him, IMO, and instead go talk with someone. Imagine if he went through 10 sessions of therapy. What is the worst that can happen? The worst that could happen is that he wasted his money as the doctor tells him that he is quite balanced. But one would need to be truthful in those sessions. The best that could happen is the psychiatrist tells him to stay off the Internet, deal with his OCD, accept responsibility for your own actions, and stay out of other people's affairs because he is only going to make his life worse off. Just my opinion, of course. Nate >>She spent the year that she was on disability planning her funeral, >>selling her house, saying goodbye to her friends, giving away her [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >that is how I see it with comments like "countless phone calls" and >"countless letters" yet he can't say where they are coming from. Maybe he just can't count? >A very small part of me feels sorry for him. But when I read all the >hateful things that he has said, and consider that he was once a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >he wasted his money as the doctor tells him that he is quite balanced. >But one would need to be truthful in those sessions. Not possible. He would have to accept the fact that he is the culprit. Any good therapist would realize the truth after a few sessions, though. >The best that could happen is the psychiatrist tells him to stay off >the Internet, deal with his OCD, accept responsibility for your own [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Nate Of course. Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport > Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring > this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the > newsgroup with more "Naglerisms." God I wish you felt that way. Look what you've done with ast. This newsgroup was one of Susan Moreland's legacies, Conlon. After how much she cared for you. Reached out and helped you. Right here in this newsgroup. I remember how close you were. I remember how her death devastated you. You and she were so close. You know how much she loved this newsgroup and the good work she had done, the countless people who found help on ast. Now you've taken ast and turned it into a weapon to use against your enemy Stephen Nagler. I can not believe what you have done to try to satisfy your vengeance. Hasn't helped you any has it? Even with your supporters the horrible feeling inside you is still there. Your vengeance still drives your life and Nagler is still here. After all this time he is still here. I don't sit in defense of Stephen Nagler but I do for ast. Every distortion, lie and act of hatred which is engaged against Nagler in ast only diminishes the newsgroup and works against your campaign. People are not so stupid to see through your deceptions and the deception of sadistic OCD driven trolls which continually attack along side you. You know damn well that my aim has been to revive this newsgroup into a resourse of help and information. Not to clear the way to make it safe for Nagler to run his corruptions. > Since you are unable to find that which you don't want to. I took 5 > minutes of my time to accomplish this for you. You misled me by giving me the search words "Chistmas In August." > Unfortunately we'll > likely see you claiming nothing took place. Nope. I think his handling and bullying of you was way out of line and disgraceful. You could have sued him and most likely won. But after these years of unbridled vengeance you have shown yourself to be no better, and for that matter, probably worse. Look how you pay back the ones who have cared and helped you, such as Susan Moreland. You really need to stop > being an enabler. And as I have said before, his anger is misguided. > When you and he discuss your next transparent ploy in e-mail, I haven't emailed him for months. Until today. And you really have to stop your vengeance and give back Susan's dream. I really can't take much more of the ugliness in this age old flame war between these two jerks. It's a beautiful happy world out there. And when I'm out there I rarely hear my tinnitus. Murray is right. God bless you Murray. God bless you Susan Moreland. Bruce >God I wish you felt that way. >Look what you've done with ast. Bruce, I have often advised people to kill filter all "the boys." As to "what you've done" you grant me more power than I possess and presume my residency to be greater than it is. If people kill filter this address and don't respond, well that makes it a monologue, now doesn't it? You are very confused as to what is going on. And I'm sorry, but many things in life are on a "need to know" basis. And since I don't want a Fatwa declared on me [I don't think Muslims like me these days as the Koran is NOT perfect], no one needs to know who I am or who posts with this account. It's really that simple. I can understand your confusion after the weekend where we witnessed foaming at the mouth leading then to Thorazine like induced postings. Here is something previously posted [by me?] that should explain to any lurkers what the problem has been, remains, and will likely continue to be until someone keeps their many promises. Now, after posting for a while and stirring the pot as "Oat Willy" I think you should also accept responsibility if you feel this forum has been harmed. Now don't go apologizing on my accord. I don't care. But in reality, there is only one person that has harmed this forum, and you do know that I'm right. There is a catalyst for a chemical reaction, isn't there? That would not be me. Nate P.S. I will be offline Thursday through late Monday night. I just thought you might want to know. You and the resident Jesse Jackson shake down artist can have your fun. **************************************************** (1) This is an UN-moderated "forum" and anyone can say anything they damn well please and here's absolutely nothing you can do about it. There are no RULES here. If you prefer a restricted atmosphere, there are plenty of other places you can go. (2) Blue, Yoli, and whoever else are NOT the problem here, and never have been. We are simply against a lot of the garbage that has been allowed to proliferate here. The answer to peace on AST is very simple. When Nag leaves, as he has promised to do MANY times, order will be restored here. Until that happens, there will be no peace here. No spewing of garbage and complex rhetoric by Nag's hired troll will change that. need more details? Good advice for anyone "not" familiar with what is happening on a.s.t. is to refrain from jumping in and posting at random. The reason there is turmoil here is because a number of us didn't like treatment being shoved down our throats by some so-called "professionals", and the disabled being told they were not desiring to get better cause they didn't try every "reasonable treatment." Guess who gets to define reasonable treatment? These so-called "professionals" toss around "success" stories and none of the data they spew comes from real life studies. They call this "science" and in reality it is garbage. They told the disabled that if they didn't try every reasonable treatment, they should not get disability benefits. Plus, these so-called "professionals" have zero compassion, and simply aren't decent human beings. Some of us keep pointing that out. When they leave permanently and forever, this turmoil on alt.support.tinnitus will stop. The biggest trouble maker, Nagler - has promised to leave "many" times. He lied. He's back. And that's why you see what you do and it's not going to stop till Nagler and his minions are gone. They have worn out their welcome and harm far more than they help. *NAGLER* to someone with tinnitus who disagreed with him about TRT:' You are going to rot in hell for eternity with your ears screaming at 100 dB, but not before your buddies in the penal institution into which you are undoubtedly headed knock your teeth out and then over andover and over again teach you the only thing your vile mouth is good for' *NAGLER* to someone asking about what jobs he tried to perform for income during his one year in bed:"I'm finished answering your questions. And I'm finished trying to help and provide insight on this board. Now go to hell, Jack." *NAGLER* speaking to a woman about a subject they disagreed on: "You are a horrible woman, [name withheld]." *NAGLER* to someone who announced he had received Social Security benefits: "You irresponsible bastard. Go get a job." *NAGLER* speaking of tinnitus disability: "But tinnitus in and of itself does not make you disabled to the extent that you cannot find some employment somewhere. And if you can do that, you ain't disabled enough according to the US government to get a free ride, however meager that free ride might be." *NAGLER* responding to a post by someone tried to help explain the Social Security process:" [name withheld] is spiritually dead by his own hand, folks" *NAGLER* leaving - again - in 1999: "Either way, I'm out of this place." Dr. Stephen Nagler was banned from participating on the Tinnitus Support Message Board due to irreconcilable differences over board policy and repeated violations of posted rules. This ban was the result of a unanimous vote by 11 administrators from five different countries. **************************************************** conlonsock ("You are confusing me with someone who cares what you say") poked his head out from under the bridge:- <flush>I will be offline Thursday through late Monday night<flush> if we got up a collection could u stretch it a bit? LOL!!! Cheers hic > > Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring > > this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > drives your life and Nagler is still here. After all this time he is > still here. Bruce, you are spot on in this observation. Where you err is in thinking that a reasonable point will be considered by an unreasonable mind. This guy is not about reasonable discourse ... he has an agenda that is not going to change. Ironic as it may be, your heartfelt plea only energizes him for more of doing what he does. IMO. Paul > I don't sit in defense of Stephen Nagler but I do for ast. Every > distortion, [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Bruce >> > Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring >> > this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Paul What Bruce is doing is taking a page from Nagler's book to prey on the sympathies of people by invoking the legacy of a person that is gone and trying to make people feel guilty. The problem is that Nagler is a huge part of this problem and feels no shame, no guilt because he goes right back to doing what he always did, so he gets what he has always gotten. This same thing happens every six months or so when Nagler's posting is limited in some way on the other message boards and he can't pontificate there so he tries to recreate his badly tarnished image here. I don't know why he hasn't the sense to move on. Any other person that saw how much rancor their presence caused would leave if what they truly believed in was having peace. See, Nagler doesn't want peace. What he believes is that if a person wants to talk about tinnitus, Nagler has to be in the center of that discussion to get the glory and attention he needs. He has to toss around quotes from studies, use "big words", drop a few names and otherwise place himself in the limelight. He even loves to suffer in public because he gets more attention that way from you, Bruce, etc. Every "Thank you" he utters, every "You're welcome" he says is just another opportunity for him to say "Look at me. Aren't I a great guy?" As the number of his defenders dwindles, he twists someone else's arm to take up the slack. It never ends. Last time this happened was Memorial Day, btw. It started with the Great Memorial Day speech by smn. Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport terri231@knowspam.mam wrote in part: >>> > Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring >>> > this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >sympathies of people by invoking the legacy of a person that is gone >and trying to make people feel guilty. The problem is that Nagler You have an obsession, just as Bruce described. You need help, and this support group needs a break. I remember very well the discussions in a.s.t. between Susan and Steve. And I still have their emails. What Bruce said was the truth.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG >You have an obsession, just as Bruce described. You need help, and this >support group needs a break. > >I remember very well the discussions in a.s.t. between Susan and Steve. And I >still have their emails. What Bruce said was the truth. It may be the truth, but it's all in the timing and intent. Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport > terri231@knowspam.mam wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA > Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG Your wetless Jim, following someones movements imo. >What Bruce is doing is taking a page from Nagler's book to prey on the >sympathies of people by invoking the legacy of a person that is gone >and trying to make people feel guilty. I think Bruce meant well. I truly do. I also feel sorry for him that he allowed himself to be used by Nagler. He might take that as an insult now, but hopefully he'll realize that it is what happened. I suggest he spits the hook that Nagler has been trying to set. Nate P.S. Excellent analysis > >> > Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring > >> > this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > sympathies of people by invoking the legacy of a person that is gone > and trying to make people feel guilty. What Bruce is doing is asking Conlon to stop doing everything he can to disrupt what little value this newsgroup has to tinnitus sufferers. What I am doing is politely telling him that in my opinion it is a waste of time to expect any change in the behavior of the offenders. You included. The problem is that Nagler is > a huge part of this problem and feels no shame, no guilt because he > goes right back to doing what he always did, so he gets what he has > always gotten. > This same thing happens every six months or so when Nagler's posting > is limited in some way on the other message boards and he can't [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > See, Nagler doesn't want peace. And you imply by saying these words that you want peace. The accuracy of the implication is laughable to any one that pays even a small amount of attention to the bile you spit up on this group. What he believes is that if a person > wants to talk about tinnitus, Nagler has to be in the center of that > discussion to get the glory and attention he needs. He has to toss [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Terri What you don't understand Terri (and never will) is that when I comment on YOUR postings it has NOTHING to do with defending anyone you may be upset with. Absolutely nothing. You continually make the point that your detractors are defenders of Dr Naglers past behavior in this group. That is 100% not the case with me. I address only the fact that you and Conlon do everything you can to devalue what this group can offer tinnitus sufferers. And you do it because you get off on it in a haze of self righteous Quixotian self delusion. Your vision is very short and very narrow, which is why I usually don't even bother to point it out to you... you and Conlon are miserable in the little box you've made but don't show any signs of wanting to leave. What I was telling Bruce is that until you stop enjoying what you do to this group, there is no sense in asking you to stop. You'll need to grow up on your own and it is clear no one can help you do that until you are ready. Paul Paul wrote despondently:- (snipped) da towel ("No one cares what you think") having snorted:- > > What Bruce is doing is taking a page from Nagler's book to prey on the > > sympathies of people by invoking the legacy of a person that is gone > > and trying to make people feel guilty. > What Bruce is doing is asking Conlon to stop > doing everything he can to disrupt what little > value this newsgroup has to tinnitus sufferers. > What I am doing is politely telling him that in > my opinion it is a waste of time to expect any > change in the behavior of the offenders. You > included. > > The problem is that Nagler...Nagler doesn't want peace. > And you imply by saying these words that you want peace. > The accuracy of the implication is laughable to any one > that pays even a small amount of attention to the > bile you spit up on this group. > What you don't understand Terri (and never will) is that > when I comment on YOUR postings it has NOTHING to do [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fact that you and Conlon do everything you can to devalue > what this group can offer tinnitus sufferers. > And you do it because you get off on it in a haze of > self righteous Quixotian self delusion. > Your vision is very short and very narrow, which is why > I usually don't even bother to point it out to you... > you and Conlon are miserable in the little box you've made > but don't show any signs of wanting to leave. > What I was telling Bruce is that until you stop enjoying > what you do to this group, there is no sense in asking > you to stop. You'll need to grow up on your own and > it is clear no one can help you do that until you are ready. well put the imputatation of support for nagler in criticism of her behavior is a way of deflecting it and keeping the focus on the object of her obssesion but then again OCDs can't see what it is they're doing though they can be shrewed enough to be aware of people's perception of them and to conjure up a counter-claim such as the 'Manic Episode' post from conlonsock how prettily da towel knelt before him...though we must - as da yoliar would surely have put it - draw a veil over what happened next LOL!!! Cheers hic BruceMeyerz wrote passionately:- conlonsock having delivered another inversion:- > > Bruce, I do wish you would get your head on straight and not bring > > this issue up because when you make these charges you pollute the > > newsgroup with more "Naglerisms." > God I wish you felt that way. > Look what you've done with ast. This newsgroup was one of Susan [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > still drives your life and Nagler is still here. After all this time he > is still here. > I don't sit in defense of Stephen Nagler but I do for ast. Every > distortion, lie and act of hatred which is engaged against Nagler in ast [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and information. Not to clear the way to make it safe for Nagler to run > his corruptions. > > Since you are unable to find that which you don't want to. I took 5 > > minutes of my time to accomplish this for you. > You misled me by giving me the search words "Chistmas In August." > > Unfortunately we'll likely see you claiming nothing took place. > Nope. I think his handling and bullying of you was way out of line > and disgraceful. You could have sued him and most likely won. > But after these years of unbridled vengeance you have > shown yourself to be no better, and for that matter, probably worse. > Look how you pay back the ones who have cared and helped you, > such as Susan Moreland. > You really need to stop > > being an enabler. And as I have said before, his anger is misguided. > > When you and he discuss your next transparent ploy in e-mail, > I haven't emailed him for months. Until today. And you really have to > stop your vengeance and give back Susan's dream. > I really can't take much more of the ugliness in this age old flame > war between these two jerks. It's a beautiful happy world out there. > And when I'm out there I rarely hear my tinnitus. Murray is right. > God bless you Murray. > God bless you Susan Moreland. Bruce, So he didn't respond to your email request? I didn't think he would as he needs to do his mischief anonymously and with an audience. At least Simpson had enough shame to withdraw when he was outed, but poor demented Conlon keeps right on going! I think you're wrong to equate Nagler's behavior with Conlon's, and I'm sorry to see you being sucked into sniping at him yourself. This is just what the trolls want - to spread dissension so that this becomes a useless forum for support and informed opinion, especially one in which Nagler's contributions are drowned in insult. That said, I applaud the sentiment of the rest of your post and I've opened a bottle of Chateau Grenouille's finest in celebration of it! Cheers hic >I think you're wrong to equate Nagler's behavior with Conlon's ............... I'm not so sure ... It's apples and oranges - but both rotten. The question is where do we go from here - not where have we been, because neither is very flattering. I am committed to posting constructively in the best interests of this newsgroup. I challenge those who have been doing so to continue. I challenge those (like me) who have not been doing so to start. stephen nagler >>I think you're wrong to equate Nagler's behavior with Conlon's > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >stephen nagler You should be committed, if you know what I mean. Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport >I am committed to posting constructively in the best interests of this >newsgroup. But you've said this before.....again.......and again.....and AGAIN. Didn't your momma ever read to you at that kitchen table you spoke of? Here, let me do it for you: Aesop's "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" There once was a shepherd boy who was bored as he sat on the hillside watching the village sheep. To amuse himself he took a great breath and sang out, "Wolf! Wolf! The Wolf is chasing the sheep!" The villagers came running up the hill to help the boy drive the wolf away. But when they arrived at the top of the hill, they found no wolf. The boy laughed at the sight of their angry faces. "Don't cry 'wolf', shepherd boy," said the villagers, "when there's no wolf!" They went grumbling back down the hill. Later, the boy sang out again, "Wolf! Wolf! The wolf is chasing the sheep!" To his naughty delight, he watched the villagers run up the hill to help him drive the wolf away. When the villagers saw no wolf they sternly said, "Save your frightened song for when there is really something wrong! Don't cry 'wolf' when there is NO wolf!" But the boy just grinned and watched them go grumbling down the hill once more. Later, he saw a REAL wolf prowling about his flock. Alarmed, he leaped to his feet and sang out as loudly as he could, "Wolf! Wolf!" But the villagers thought he was trying to fool them again, and so they didn't come. At sunset, everyone wondered why the shepherd boy hadn't returned to the village with their sheep. They went up the hill to find the boy. They found him weeping. "There really was a wolf here! The flock has scattered! I cried out, "Wolf!" Why didn't you come?" An old man tried to comfort the boy as they walked back to the village. "We'll help you look for the lost sheep in the morning," he said, putting his arm around the youth, "Nobody believes a liar...even when he is telling the truth!" ******************************************************* The moral of this story - which I believe is very applicable to you - includes that you've had plenty of time to change. Now go do it on someone else's time. Nobody here believes you or trusts you. Actions speak louder than words. Besides, you have files to keep and letters to write and scores to settle. Two years from now we'll all be 2 years older and someone else will come along. You'll do the predictable and then it's "I'll try" all over again. Why? We don't really know, but we can speculate that you should speak to someone. The Aesop's Fable is very interesting to relate to this because you Nagler, have been crying wolf and thinking everyone else is to blame. Given what everyone here knows of your past here, how could you possibly think that everyone...anyone... would answer your invitation to the Thanksgiving table with you? Nate >The question is where do we go from here Jail or Scientology. Take your pick. You apparently need one or the other. "STOP THE MADNESS" Nathan Powder >I am committed to posting constructively in the best interests of this >newsgroup. I...I...I...I...I....I....I me...me...me...me...me I'm...I'm....I'm....I'm....I'm You know no other words. I don't think you know other words. Bruce says you have a problem. I agree. On behalf of people who have left, lurk, or just don't have the nerve to say what they think, listen carefully: NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU ARE COMMITTED TO! No one reading a fair number of your posts 'in context" can come to any conclusion, IMO, other than that you speak out of both sides of your mouth as you threaten people. You obviously have spare time. Go donate it to those who can't pay for health care for their kids. We know you don't do it now or you would have told us. Here's a thought: Why not be committed to your words to leave? I'd say that if you leave I'll leave with you but I have seen that fail before. You'll just J'ACCUSE someone else of being me and come back. And how will you know that? Because you might not post but you will still lurk. You watch. You always watch. You can't stop watching. What is wrong with you? Let it go. Help this NG and help yourself. LET - IT - GO! Nate P.S. I'm gone till Monday night at the earliest after this post. Start small. Try not to post at least that long. Deep down you know you must stop. And that part is gnawing away at you, isn't it? There are programs to help with these things. You might not have an alcohol program, but looking up their 12 step program might help you break this demon. Martin/Nate/Nathan/Steve, Even you would have to smile at the incredible irony of this comment. HNG You'll just J'ACCUSE someone else of being me and come back. Stephen Nagler wrote peachily:- > CSW posted (in part): > >I think you're wrong to equate Nagler's behavior with Conlon's > I'm not so sure ... > It's apples and oranges - but both rotten. heck *you* don't need to demean yourself - the OCDs are working hard enough at it already! > The question is where do we go from here - not where have we been, > because neither is very flattering. > I am committed to posting constructively in the best interests of this > newsgroup. I challenge those who have been doing so to continue. I > challenge those (like me) who have not been doing so to start. such an appeal falls on deaf ears as you should know by now what we've got here is 2 or 3 obssesives committed to harassing you & careless of whether this group suffers in the process so they're going to keep right on going for you & disrupting the group regardless of what you say or do the best for you is to withdraw from the fray and post only about the medical aspects of tinnitus its gonna be hard because the trolls will continue - probably increase initially when they don't get the feed they need & the lies/misinfo/twisted ? truths and plain gratuitous insult will go on the OCDs have made it a big part of their lives to stalk you & they know an empty hole would be left if they didn't have a focus for their malice (see how easily they move to others when you are silent?) so...no more appeals to reason please - you're not dealing with normal reasonable people no more saying you want to put the past behind you for the good of this group no more protestations of good behavior from now on then coming back with a riposte no matter how justified it is no more answering their lies & taunts never a comment on others - even a favorable one - or an attempt to ingratiate yourself as you only give the OCDs an opening don't even reply to this which is what i mean by withdrawing from the fray & posting only about tinnitus Cheers hic > so...no more appeals to reason please - > you're not dealing with normal reasonable people [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Cheers hic He's right you know, Stephen. This is absolutely the best advice. Now don't answer this either. Bruce > Bruce, > So he didn't respond to your email request? I didn't think he would as [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Cheers hic Here's the thing; Stephen is my friend. He's helped me with my own battle with tinnitus. That battle has worked out quite well for me. My friend has some serious problems. I've been aware of this for sometime. I don't abandon my friends because they have problems and yet I try to deal with them honestly. Steve Conlon and I had a cordial relationship here at ast a few years ago. We had some meaningful exchanges back then, helped a few people, he gave me some helpful advice and we had some fun and laughs. Now that I know this is who this is I'm not going abandon him either just because he has some serious problems. I know his good side, too. And I intend to deal with him honestly as well. What I'm after is for ast to return back to a support group. Honestly. Now you ..... ~you d'Man~ Bruce Bruce, I think you've just defined what it means to be a mensch. I hope this can return to a support group and not a shooting gallery. If people like you continue to post, that may occur. HNG > > Bruce, > > So he didn't respond to your email request? I didn't think he would as [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Bruce >Now that I know this is How do you know who "this is"? Do tell. As to Nagler's sickness, this is the last place in the world that Nagler is going to be helped by his sickness. Me, I'm just going to try and help him keep his word. As to Nagler, well he is just going to be f.cking the wrong person. And that is the pity of it all. Nathan Jessup - "You have f.cked with the wrong marine." He's the one who said it I heard it two But the three of them knew his leaving was the right thing to do. conlonsock ("I just spent 10 minutes in the archives") snuffled about and came up with:- >...you pollute the newsgroup with more "Naglerisms."<flush> is '."' a conlonism? LOL!!! Cheers hic |
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