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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / October 2007How recent is "today"?
The following is a duplicate from Dr. Murray Grossan's writing. One wonders how recent is this "today"? ========================== 19. Murray Grossan 查看个人资料 更多选项 10月3日, 下午2时19分 新闻论坛：alt.support.tinnitus 发件人：Murray Grossan <hydro...@adelphia.net> 日期：Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:19:35 -0700 当地时间：2007年10月3日(星期三) 下午2时19分 主题：Tinnitus therapy 回复 | 答复作者 | 转发 | 打印 | 单个帖子 | 显示原始邮件 | 报告此帖 | 查找此作者的帖子 The primary reason for prior T treatment failures has been that the treatments were only directed to the ear. Today we understand that the nerve and the brain must be attended to. ===================================== With the advancement of science, with man already being shot to the moon, why has it taken so long for the high-tech doctors of the West to realize that the cause of our tinnitus may go beyond our ears? Would it be possible that whatever is acceptable as 'scientific' truth is controlled by a mafia organization named the Medical Association, which punishes its members from going beyond the set guidelines of 'science'? As a matter of fact, practically *all* the ENT experts I visited a few years ago homed onto my ears and nowhere else. Only a general physician suspected the cause of tinnitus might have come from the nerve and he is the one who prescribed me ginkgo biloba. In the subsequent development of my tinnitus, it was the acupuncture treatments that finally took care of my nerve discomfort and tremendously cut down the T volume. I told this experience to this ng and did so much to the displeasure and skepticism of the 'habituation' experts; the latter, of course, might have assumed that the world in which we live is semi-spherical in shape. I have confidence with acupuncture and I believe it is an effective cure for tinnitus involving 'nerve', because I personally went through it. The following are the links that relate acupuncture treatment to a certain type of tinnitus involving nerve. I think one of them is 'controlled' in nature: http://www.springerlink.com/content/xw4743655707780v/ http://www.springerlink.com/content/p00r28551745x271/ FP My son's g/f was cured of tinnitus by accupuncture. She complained of it quite badly and hasn't heard it for at least two years now. The following is a duplicate from Dr. Murray Grossan's writing. One wonders how recent is this "today"? ========================== 19. Murray Grossan ²é¿´¸öÈË×ÊÁÏ ¸ü¶àÑ¡Ïî 10ÔÂ3ÈÕ, ÏÂÎç2ʱ19·Ö ÐÂÎÅÂÛ̳£ºalt.support.tinnitus ·¢¼þÈË£ºMurray Grossan <hydro...@adelphia.net> ÈÕÆÚ£ºTue, 02 Oct 2007 23:19:35 -0700 µ±µØʱ¼ä£º2007Äê10ÔÂ3ÈÕ(ÐÇÆÚÈý) ÏÂÎç2ʱ19·Ö Ö÷Ì⣺Tinnitus therapy »Ø¸´ | ´ð¸´×÷Õß | ת·¢ | ´òÓ¡ | µ¥¸öÌû×Ó | ÏÔʾÔʼÓʼþ | ±¨¸æ´ËÌû | ²éÕÒ´Ë×÷ÕßµÄÌû×Ó The primary reason for prior T treatment failures has been that the treatments were only directed to the ear. Today we understand that the nerve and the brain must be attended to. ===================================== With the advancement of science, with man already being shot to the moon, why has it taken so long for the high-tech doctors of the West to realize that the cause of our tinnitus may go beyond our ears? Would it be possible that whatever is acceptable as 'scientific' truth is controlled by a mafia organization named the Medical Association, which punishes its members from going beyond the set guidelines of 'science'? As a matter of fact, practically *all* the ENT experts I visited a few years ago homed onto my ears and nowhere else. Only a general physician suspected the cause of tinnitus might have come from the nerve and he is the one who prescribed me ginkgo biloba. In the subsequent development of my tinnitus, it was the acupuncture treatments that finally took care of my nerve discomfort and tremendously cut down the T volume. I told this experience to this ng and did so much to the displeasure and skepticism of the 'habituation' experts; the latter, of course, might have assumed that the world in which we live is semi-spherical in shape. I have confidence with acupuncture and I believe it is an effective cure for tinnitus involving 'nerve', because I personally went through it. The following are the links that relate acupuncture treatment to a certain type of tinnitus involving nerve. I think one of them is 'controlled' in nature: http://www.springerlink.com/content/xw4743655707780v/ http://www.springerlink.com/content/p00r28551745x271/ FP > My son's g/f was cured of tinnitus by accupuncture. She complained of > it quite badly and hasn't heard it for at least two years now. She was fortunate because she had not come into AST to read all that 'controlled' studies done on acupuncture by American medical 'experts' ..... > <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > FP Promoted negatism. This was the basic source of the severe flame wars existing here and other groups a few years back. The negative attitude is - that nothing worked for me so there is nothing anybody can do....give up - if there isn't scientific evidence it can never work. - be scared of any method, technique or supplement your doctor didn't give you - be afraid of anything you do not understand. How has religion survived? Funny, I remember the hippies in the 60s telling the world about the ozone layer depletion and scientists telling the public it was complete crap. I remember the crazy nutcases telling people about dairy allergies and food allergies in general. Doctors were taught in medical schools this was mental illness. I remember telling my brother to see an Accupuncturist for his problems. He said "My problem isn't imaginary and I don't need a real doctor". He died. I guess, and I tell real people this all the time: I don't care what your health beliefs are. If you are getting a certain health care style and it isn't working, try a different philosophy. Forget the nay sayers, go help yourself and stop whining.I find most people with cronic problems swear they have tried everything and they are helpless but when quized, nothing has been given a fair chance. That two days of vitamin pills are always a waste of money. Or as the chem/cut Doctors are taught. "expensive urine" On 10ÔÂ6ÈÕ, ÉÏÎç11ʱ24·Ö, "Janice" <Janice@hurtmail..com> wrote: > My son's g/f was cured of tinnitus by accupuncture. She complained > of > it quite badly and hasn't heard it for at least two years now. She was fortunate because she had not come into AST to read all that 'controlled' studies done on acupuncture by American medical 'experts' ..... > <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > FP > My son's g/f was cured of tinnitus by accupuncture. She complained of > it quite badly and hasn't heard it for at least two years now. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > FP I was in a bus yesterday and I met a 2nd year medical STUDENT here in China. So I asked her what caused tinnitus. She said:" Well, you have to have your ear examined first, and if nothing wrong is found, you have to go one step further to have your nerve and brain checked". She is a STUDENT only. And even a student is able to tell that the ear is not separated from the rest of the body such as the nerve and the brain. Years ago when I complained about the nerve discomfort in my head, both the 'habituation' doctors of America here in this ng and the fancy doctors in the deluxe medical clinics in Hong Kong were pretty impatient with my suggesting strongly a possible connection between my nerve and my ear. To them, if nothing wrong is found in one's ear, it would simply mean there is nothing wrong with the other parts of the body that 'could be' related to the ear. And these are DOCTORS... and these DOCTORS spent 7-8 years in medical schools to become ear 'specialists'. Well, perhaps if Dr. Nagler, Dr. Frank, Dr. Murray Grossan and Dr.Jim Chinnis of America were invited to teach in China, they should become students there first before taking up teaching.....LOL On Oct 13, 3:26 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My son's g/f was cured of tinnitus by accupuncture. She complained of > > it quite badly and hasn't heard it for at least two years now. [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > Chinnis of America were invited to teach in China, they should become > students there first before taking up teaching.....LOL Its difficult to know the point your trying to make. If you're saying that specialists in the USA think that there is no causal link between the brain and the auditory nervous system, then I think you're under a massive misapprehension, you might want to read this... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071005185125.htm If your so smart why are you traveling by bus? The Mercedes is in the shop? Best regards John > On Oct 13, 3:26 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > Its difficult to know the point your trying to make. Then clarify with your interlocutors first before going ahead to make criticism. If you're saying > that specialists in the USA think that there is no causal link between > the brain and the auditory nervous system, It is not what I am suggesting.... then I think you're under a > massive misapprehension, you might want to read this... > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071005185125.htm > > If your so smart why are you traveling by bus? The Mercedes is in the > shop? Do smart people necessarily have to travel in Mercedes? Are all those who travel in Mercedes necessarily smart people? If you were such a smart native English speaker, how come you missed the word 'are' in "If your so smart why are you traveling by bus? "? I think it is medication time for you. > Best regards > > John- 隐藏被引用文字 - > > - 显示引用的文字 - On Oct 13, 3:55 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 13, 3:26 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > > - 显示引用的文字 - Hi, Sorry, I should have written, "you're". I apologise, I write too quickly, which is unfair and disrespectful. What is your point here? I have to say that all the doctors I have visited have been very encouraging with regards to acupuncture. Again I would be surprised if there is a regular here who has not tried it. If you want to see how widely accepted acupuncture is in the UK you might find this article more than interesting despite what it has to say about the effectiveness on tinnitus. http://qshc.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/11/1/92 Best regards John > On Oct 13, 3:55 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 117 lines] > > What is your point here? The point was that practically all the high-tech fancy doctors I visited focused on the ear for causes of my tinnitus. When I asked about the nerve, they would either say 'NO" or tell me to talk to the people in the neurology department. These are not 'peasant' herb doctors but doctors who graduated from places such as the University of Edingburg. I have to say that all the doctors I have > visited have been very encouraging with regards to acupuncture. *All* the doctors??? Have they ever read the double-blind controlled studies performed by the high-tech American doctors which conclude that acupuncture is ineffective for treating tinnitus? Again > I would be surprised if there is a regular here who has not tried > it. I have not done a survey in this ng but I am sure many here, particularly the ones to whom Hollywood movies are their only source of intellectual education, are trembling forward to trying acupuncture. > If you want to see how widely accepted acupuncture is in the UK you > might find this article more than interesting despite what it has to > say about the effectiveness on tinnitus. The people in UK are exposed to a bigger variety of intellectual substance such as that from Europe than those hillbillies whose only source is Hollywood movies. > http://qshc.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/11/1/92 > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > - 显示引用的文字 - On Oct 14, 2:45 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 13, 3:55 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 158 lines] > > > - 显示引用的文字 - I think it is always a mistake to generalise about countries in the manner that you have done here. I think you enjoy trading insults, and it just might be the reason you come here. You say that your tinnitus is much reduced, so why come here, what is the big deal for you? We have all read your views on GB and acupuncture. I think the majority of people who come to this group are probably very bright, well educated, and more importantly very concerned about their condition. No country has so many leading universities as the USA, 17 out of the top 20 are US, and that is the conclusion of a Chinese study. The Metropolitan Opera house has been the worlds best for close to a century. Silicon Valley, and the Bay Area is testament to the practical level of intelligence that exists in the US. Their contribution to literature is immense, think of Bellow, Eliot, Grey, Plath, Irving, etc., Some of the finest Movies have been American, rather than compile a list you might want to check out the following; http://www.imdb.com/chart/top The majority are US films. I think this sort of abusive posting is best done elsewhere. Many come here in real distress, some will be more than scared, they should not have to read silly allegations about their education system, or have their country belittled by someone looking for a petty argument. Best regards John > On Oct 14, 2:45 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 193 lines] > > - 显示引用的文字 - Do hillbillies necessarily imply all Americans? Are the Americans the only people whose source of education is the Hollywood movies? You have not even asked me to define the parameters of my use of 'hillbillies'. Hillbillies refer to people like yourself who like to run away with a word or a phrase you find disagreeable in other people's posts and you afterwards like to speak on behalf of the collectives---in a way that is reminiscient of "this is what other people say about you" in the mannerism of the uneducated islanders-- and do so righteously and with dignity like an old dinosaur. I will ignore the insulting nature of your remarks. No dictionary defines hillbilly in the manner that you do. Just in case you don't know, the Cambridge Dictionary definition of the word is: hillbilly noun [C] US OLD-FASHIONED DISAPPROVING a person from a mountainous area of the US who has a simple way of life and is considered to be slightly stupid by people living in towns and cities. In no way was I definitive in describing the collective, or would you like me to post a definition of the word 'probably' for you. Please explain this paragraph... "The people in UK are exposed to a bigger variety of intellectual substance such as that from Europe than those hillbillies whose only source is Hollywood movies." I doubt the meaning is lost on other posters. You are here to bait. Which is a shame considering the nature of the group. Since your tinnitus has recovered to such an extent, you might consider finding some other hapless newsgroup to share your opinions. Surely your work here is done. Best regards John > I will ignore the insulting nature of your remarks. No dictionary > defines hillbilly in the manner that you do. Let us illustrate to you what I meant by a person being a 'hillbilly'. The person who wrote the following is a typical example of a 'hillbilly'" "If your so smart why are you traveling by bus? The Mercedes is in the shop? Best regards John " ----------------------------- A hillbilly thinks anyone in a big fancy car must be a smart person while those on public transport must not be smart. This illusion is sometimes carried by the Hollywood movies. Mind you, the influence of the Hollywood movies is everywhere, in the US mainland and amongst the islanders of the world. Just in case you don't > know, the Cambridge Dictionary definition of the word is: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > John On Oct 15, 6:11 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I will ignore the insulting nature of your remarks. No dictionary > > defines hillbilly in the manner that you do. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > John Don't tell me you're on options dealer who travels on buses for fun... > On Oct 15, 6:11 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > - 显示引用的文字 - Whatever or whoever your interlocutor is an issue entirely separated from what you wish to establish as a part of the argument. Your job here is to prove a 'Hillbilly theory' which espouses that smart people don't take public transportation but have to be on fancy cars. On Oct 15, 4:36 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 15, 6:11 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > here is to prove a 'Hillbilly theory' which espouses that smart people > don't take public transportation but have to be on fancy cars. First off, mine was a humourous dig at a person who seems to think that he is oh so clever. A person that can divine the speech cadences of an islander as opposed to those who live on the mainland. That he can denigrate the one man on here who most of us come on to read. That he is happy to use the most transparent and tangential syllogism to make the most obtuse points. (I hope you appreciate the humour in the last sentence). Actually I respect those who choose to travel by public transport. Best regards John > On Oct 15, 4:36 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > - Show quoted text - ***I am not an option dealer ***Not all option dealers make money; many do lose money. ***Those who make money don't necessarily make a lot of money to the point that he can afford to drive a fancy car. ***Those who make a lot of money don't necessarily want to drive a fancy car. I think you are a lovely hillbilly from UK. Inspite of your being a UK hillbilly, you do have an intelligency quotient higher than many ear specialists in the UK and America. > Its difficult to know the point your trying to make. If you're saying > that specialists in the USA think that there is no causal link between > the brain and the auditory nervous system, then I think you're under a > massive misapprehension, you might want to read this... > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071005185125.htm When I first contracted tinnitus and started looking into stuff written by Western doctors, the focus was more on the brain and nervous system, than the ear. And the primary factor was psychology. It's not the ringing that was the problem, it's how I reacted to the ringing that was the problem. So in order to get over my tinnitus, I had to fix my brain - not fix my ears. > > Its difficult to know the point your trying to make. If you're saying > > that specialists in the USA think that there is no causal link between [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > So in order to get over my tinnitus, I had to fix my brain - not fix > my ears. Some comes from the brain, some from the ear, some from even bones..........and I believe some are 'psychological'.. On 10/12/07 7:26 PM, in article 1192242406.698296.244070@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@gmail.com" > Well, perhaps if Dr. Nagler, Dr. Frank, Dr. Murray Grossan and Dr.Jim > Chinnis of America were invited to teach in China, they should become > students there first before taking up teaching.....LOL I have lectured in China twice. It was interesting. Murray Grossan, M.D. > On 10/12/07 7:26 PM, in article > 1192242406.698296.244...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com, "fyfp...@gmail.com" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I have lectured in China twice. It was interesting. > Murray Grossan, M.D. Did you teach 'habituation' to the Chinese medical students? How about double-blind randomized experiments on acupuncture ?
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