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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / October 2007Imagine...
Imagine what would happen to the amount of business going to the ENT doctors if every tinnitus patient started with a bottle of ginko biloba first before visiting ENT experts for expensive check-ups. On Oct 2, 5:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > Imagine what would happen to the amount of business going to the ENT > doctors if every tinnitus patient started with a bottle of ginko > biloba first before visiting ENT experts for expensive check-ups. Imagine what would happen to the amount of business going to the cancer doctors if every cancer patient started with coffee enemas or prayer beads before visiting cancer experts for expensive check-ups. About 1% of tinnitus sufferers have tinnitus due to an eight nerve tumor called an acoustic neuroma. As they take the worthless ginko, the tumor can grow and destroy their hearing and begin to invade their brains. More dangerous and worthless advice from our semi-literate resident tinnitus clown. > On Oct 2, 5:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the tumor can grow and destroy their hearing and begin to invade their > brains. Who says one has to stay with a med that does not prove to work in an individual's case, in say 2 weeks' time? > More dangerous and worthless advice from our semi-literate resident > tinnitus clown. On Oct 2, 3:58 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 2, 5:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > More dangerous and worthless advice from our semi-literate resident > > tinnitus clown. The point is that you can do both. If you have tinnitus my advice is seek out medical attention quickly. The previous poster mentioned the chances of an acoustic neuroma. It could quite easily be a brain tumor. My only advice on these matters is to seek specialist medical attention. If you have a constant ringing in your ears try to get past your general practitioner as soon as possible. Do not delay for 2 weeks. Best regards John > On Oct 2, 3:58 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > - - You are right. Perhaps I was addressing an audience whose advice from doctors is 'to live with it' and the advice was given after some rather expensive check-ups. On 10/2/07 6:40 PM, in article 1191375653.334927.33840@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@gmail.com" > Imagine what would happen to the amount of business going to the ENT >>>>> doctors if every tinnitus patient started with a bottle of ginko >>>>> biloba first before visiting ENT experts for expensive check-ups. Actually most of the T patients that come to our office have already tried Gingko, and several of the miracle cures from the internet. > On 10/2/07 6:40 PM, in article > 1191375653.334927.33...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "fyfp...@gmail.com" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Actually most of the T patients that come to our office have already tried > Gingko, and several of the miracle cures from the internet. Good, at least they had tried and found out what does not work for them. Now it is your turn. > On 10/2/07 6:40 PM, in article > 1191375653.334927.33...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "fyfp...@gmail.com" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Actually most of the T patients that come to our office have already tried > Gingko, and several of the miracle cures from the internet. Also, you have to be grateful to the fact that these patients had been on ginko and keeping their T fresh with this blood thinner before they found an experienced one like you. Many ENT doctors have no experience in treating tinnitus. Are you suggesting that these patients would have been better off without having any of the herbs before coming to see you? I think you would have a hard time making this case. What is the success rate of the ones that never visit your office? You portray a very biased conclusion. > On 10/2/07 6:40 PM, in article > 1191375653.334927.33840@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > tried > Gingko, and several of the miracle cures from the internet. > On Oct 2, 3:58 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > - - I forgot to mention that without reference to *my own* experience the use of ginko can also be a first line of treatment. That is to say, it can be just as good as visiting a specialist in many aspects. I went to see quite a few specialists. These were the results: (1)after an expensive check-up, sent me away with a bottle of vitamin B. (2)after an expensive check-up, hooked me into ATIVAN. (3)after an expensive check-up, sent me away with a bottle of med which is used to pump blood into the inner ear. This med caused me to suffer from insomnia at the time when I needed it the most. (4)after an expensive check-up, put me on betahistine. (5)after an expensive check-up, put me on fruzinide hydrochloride. (6)after an expensive check-up,prescribed me 12 days of intravenous injection. (7)Finally, i went to visit a general physician in HK and he sent me away with ginko biloba. (7) is the best but what rescued me from my nerve discomfort was an acupuncturist in Vancouver. I think the assumption most people are holding onto is that the high- tech treatment is necessarily better than the simple alternatives. This assumption in many cases does not stand a chance. On Oct 3, 9:36 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 2, 3:58 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > tech treatment is necessarily better than the simple alternatives. > This assumption in many cases does not stand a chance. I am sorry that you have suffered so much at the hands of a few practitioners. All the same this anecdotal evidence and certainly does not equate to my experience. I had a Brain scan straight away, I went to an audiology department, and had extensive tests. They were more than helpful, and the advice was good. They did not discourage me from taking GB or trying acupuncture, they encouraged me to try these remedies if I wanted to. They certainly had a healthy respect for acupuncture. I think you just might avoid projecting your experience on to the rest of us. Who have tried GB with no noticeable effect. Your happy experience is not scientific evidence. Ans whatever objections you might have to a double blind test it is certainly more persuasive than what you are advocating. Best regards John > On Oct 3, 9:36 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > They certainly had a healthy respect for acupuncture. I think you > just might avoid projecting your experience on to the rest of us. How is my description different from yours? Do I need to line up mine against yours in order to see if the norm is conformed? This is typically a protestant's behavior. Who > have tried GB with no noticeable effect. Your happy experience is not > scientific evidence. Then what is scientific evidence? Is clinical experience a form of scientific evidence? What would happen to all that clinical experiences prior to the invention of controlled studies? Were they totally unscientific? Ans whatever objections you might have to a > double blind test it is certainly more persuasive than what you are > advocating. I don't object to a double blind test but I do recognize this kind of test, like any other kind, has its limitatiions. > Best regards > > John- - > > - - On Oct 4, 1:08 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 3, 9:36 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > > > - - Sorry you think my reasoning is protestant. I will try to be as rigourous as you are. The scientific method by definition is testing a treatment under controlled conditions, with a placebo. Anecdotal evidence is at best here say. If the results can't be duplicated under controlled conditions then they lack scientific validity. This might mean that they have anecdotal validity, and for you that might be a basis of recommending such a treatment. GB had no effect on me. Maybe it is because of my protestant mind set, I would not dissuade anyone else from trying it. My experience is not the be all and end all of any treatment. You might be happy to dismiss this reasoning as Protestant coupled with being an islander. It might come as a shock to you the medical advances that have come from this small island. Penicillin, DNA, Anaesthesia etc... and the university with the highest number of Nobel Laureates. > On Oct 4, 1:08 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > The scientific method by definition is testing a treatment under > controlled conditions, with a placebo. Says who? Anecdotal evidence is at best > here say. Is clinical experience necessarily anecdotal evidence? If the results can't be duplicated under controlled > conditions then they lack scientific validity. Says who? This might mean that > they have anecdotal validity, and for you that might be a basis of > recommending such a treatment. I recommend such a treatment because I have experienced the tangible improvement. > GB had no effect on me. Maybe it is because of my protestant mind > set, No, your attitude is not related to how a med reacts to you. Many patients to whom GB produces no effect do not have protestant mind set. I would not dissuade anyone else from trying it. My experience > is not the be all and end all of any treatment. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Anaesthesia etc... and the university with the highest number of Nobel > Laureates.- The British islanders are divided into many classes. You of course would like to identify yourself with those at the top. - > - - On Oct 4, 12:48 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 4, 1:08 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 152 lines] > > > - - An interesting segue into the British class system, which is all but disappeared. I am from the meretricious school of thinking, I have no truck with defining anyone on the basis of class, let alone if they are grew up on an island... Do you acknowledge the point that penicillin and DNA were first identified in the UK? This might be difficult, could you just address the points directly, thanks and Best regards John > On Oct 4, 12:48 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 159 lines] > truck with defining anyone on the basis of class, let alone if they > are grew up on an island... Is there such a grammatical expression as "they are grew up on an island"? > Do you acknowledge the point that penicillin and DNA were first > identified in the UK? Do you acknowledge the point that the Chinese invented gun powder at a time when the Anglos were dancing with naked bottoms in the dark forest of Europe? Do you acknowledge that Queen Victoria or the 'amoral' queen of the protestants was the largest opium smuggler that world had ever known? > This might be difficult, could you just address the points directly, > thanks and Why should I be guided by your diversion of the original thread? > Best regards > > John- - > > - - On Oct 5, 4:38 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 4, 12:48 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 183 lines] > > > - - I do apologise once again for my untidy grammar. Again I must press you to answer my points about your assertion regarding medical science vs anecdotal evidence. Your failure to answer might be construed as an inability to come to terms with the question. The behavior of the British during the opium wars was indeed immoral. What exactly is your point here? That this makes all the scientific discoveries and innovation completely irrelevant? I have to say, that China today has no bigger friend than the UK. I do not believe we would oppose a Chinese take over of an Oil Company. Please take into consideration our stance on the so called 'bra wars'. Also I do not think the Chinese nation has an unsullied history either. No one here denies the Chinese have a great and glorious history. Why do you think that is an issue? Best regards John > On Oct 5, 4:38 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 207 lines] > > - - Why should I answer the questions you throw at me randomly without my having to throw back to you questions that are just about as random? What is the relationship between 'islander speaking' and globalized economy? You tell me what you want to achieve and i will tell you what to expect. You speak as if you are a bureacrat and take the luxury of delivering a verdict after people do your test. On Oct 5, 9:42 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Oct 5, 4:38 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 214 lines] > what to expect. You speak as if you are a bureacrat and take the > luxury of delivering a verdict after people do your test. Hi, You may have noticed that I have taken the trouble to answer all of your questions honestly. Including the culpability of the British during the Opium Wars. I have not dodged a single question. I just want an answer to one. Let me tell me what I want to achieve: I want you to tell us all here whether you are going to dismiss a scientific medical trial on the basis of your anecdotal evidence? Since you have made several derogatory remarks about this nation of islanders, and you choose not to withdraw them, could you at least acknowledge the advances made in this country on Penicillin, DNA, and anesthesia? As to your point about diverting from the original thread. The last point is from points that you have brought up. I gave you an honest answer regarding the activities of the East India Company, another segue you introduced. Yet you accuse me from diverting from the original thread. Is this an attempt at appealing to the British sense of Irony? I think the answer to these two questions are quite easy. Trying to define the speech and writing patterns of an islander nation on the other hand might be quite difficult. By the way, since English is not your first language, bureacrat is normally written as bureaucrat. snipped... > Let me tell me what I want to achieve: > > I want you to tell us tell you, not *us*. all here whether you are going to dismiss a > scientific medical trial on the basis of your anecdotal evidence? Not dismiss but taking into consideration that this kind of experimentation, like any other type, has its limitations. > Since you have made several derogatory remarks about this nation of > islanders, You like to throw around sweeping generations and have me follow your generalizations to make comments. I have made remarks--not necessarily derogatory-- that reflect a certain way of speaking and in this case the commonly used "other people say/do" conformist collectivist mentality of a certain group of islanders, be them British or Japanese or icelanders. This is not true of any islander, nor is it true that all mainlanders or people living in the continents have not been found to be doing it. and you choose not to withdraw them, could you at least > acknowledge the advances made in this country on Penicillin, DNA, and > anesthesia? If I had to answer that, I had to answer a lot of other things such as the practice of chopping heads off by the Japanese, opium smuggling or witches burning of the British...or some other things of the lowest echelon dwellers of the islanders population. But I don't see the connection. > As to your point about diverting from the original thread. The last > point is from points that you have brought up. I gave you an honest > answer regarding the activities of the East India Company, another > segue you introduced. Yet you accuse me from diverting from the > original thread. Is this an attempt at appealing to the British sense > of Irony? I don't see the connection between a certain way of expression and all these things. You can go on to do whatever you want to do but it does not mean I have to follow you. > I think the answer to these two questions are quite easy. Trying to > define the speech and writing patterns of an islander nation on the > other hand might be quite difficult. While I touched upon a certain style of speaking of people mostly commonly found amongst the islanders or the lowest social echelon islanders, you are amplifying it to include "the speech and writing patterns of an islander nation". As I said, even amongst the people in an island nation, there are many classes. What you are trying to do is to identify them as one group and you place yourself in that group. > By the way, since English is not your first language, bureacrat is > normally written as bureaucrat. You have made a lot of spelling and grammatical errors too. So stop being so small-minded as to pick on mine in a debate. This kind of small-mindedness is not true of all British islanders but in your case it is true. So don't come back and ask me to make a connection between the small-mindedness shown in you and the splendid scientific achievement of the British scholars in Oxford university. On Oct 6, 1:05 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > snipped... > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > between the small-mindedness shown in you and the splendid scientific > achievement of the British scholars in Oxford university. If there was a point there it has finally been lost on me. Let me ask you this question, do you think it is actually a good idea to delay medical treatment for two weeks while you try GB? Since the onset of tinnitus could be from a brain tumour or a neuroma. Would you be prepared to change your advice on this basis? Best regards John |
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